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reb sites - Zork! thoughts

 [1/13] from: rchristiansen::pop::isdfa::sei-it::com at: 5-Jan-2001 14:23


I haven't downloaded a copy of /View since the first release, mainly due to the lack of current documentation. One of the fun things I discovered was the Reb Sites links. One thought comes to mind: creating a massively distributed, Internet-based role-playing game the likes of Zork! where the world is created by anyone and everyone. Persons help to create their little pieces of the world by uploading a valid XML file to a central server. The XML file defines a specific "room" or "tile" and also the creatures, objects, actions, and dialog within each room. You could even create a room Editor using the Reb interface. A /View for every PC! -Ryan

 [2/13] from: norsepower:uswest at: 5-Jan-2001 20:14


>Apart from being a tourist in this world, what other possible goals >would visitors to it have?
In the Zork! world, every "room" had a riddle to solve.
>Hmmm. To handle "objects" and the like that could be picked up and >moved around, a central server would probably be needed...
This could be handled client-side with a user.r file keeping track of things.
>And if visitors are to be able to view each-other, how is that to be >handled? When someone goes offline, do they just "vanish into thin >air", or what?
The "interaction" part of the game comes from adding your own pieces to the world. I don't see real-time interaction being easy, except for conversation, perhaps.

 [3/13] from: norsepower:uswest at: 5-Jan-2001 20:11


I'm thinking of a world where the laws of physics adhere more to a cartoon, looney tune-like set of standards. Otherwise, the game engine becomes too bogged-down. Keep it fun, not realistic.

 [4/13] from: sterling:rebol at: 5-Jan-2001 14:53


That's a cool idea. You would need to build the language parser and basic game engine. With 'parse, the language interpreter could be built pretty fast and easily extended. I think the hard part of making it so distributed would be keeping the game continuity. Two different people may design adjacent rooms, one being a very futuristic space capsule while the other is some bizarre, surreal room with chairs on the walls and 3 legged people drinking soda through their fingertips. Nevertheless, REBOL would be a great platform for it. Sterling

 [5/13] from: rchristiansen:pop:isdfa:sei-it at: 5-Jan-2001 17:51


Not necessarily. One of the criteria built-in to the Reb-based "room editor" would be to choose the "type" of room you are creating. Of course, even that would be on the honor system.

 [6/13] from: carl:cybercraft at: 6-Jan-2001 14:25


On 06-Jan-01, [sterling--rebol--com] wrote:
> I think the hard part of making it so distributed would be keeping > the game continuity. Two different people may design adjacent rooms, > one being a very futuristic space capsule while the other is some > bizarre, surreal room with chairs on the walls and 3 legged people > drinking soda through their fingertips.
You say that like it's a bad thing. (: -- Carl Read [carl--cybercraft--co--nz]

 [7/13] from: carl:cybercraft at: 6-Jan-2001 14:29


On 06-Jan-01, Ryan C. Christiansen wrote:
> One thought comes to mind: creating a massively distributed, > Internet-based role-playing game the likes of Zork! where the world > is created by anyone and everyone.
Lovely idea.
> Persons help to create their > little pieces of the world by uploading a valid XML file to a > central server.
Why would it need a central server? The XML file could be on any website, with the XML validation check within the View script people use to wander round this world. (RebWorld?) Then when someone adds a room, they'd just have to persuade someone who already has a room in this world to provide a doorway to it. Or perhaps their could be streets with addresses? Cities of streets, countries of cities, etc, etc...
> The XML file defines a specific "room" or "tile" and > also the creatures, objects, actions, and dialog within each room. > You could even create a room Editor using the Reb interface.
Apart from being a tourist in this world, what other possible goals would visitors to it have? Hmmm. To handle "objects" and the like that could be picked up and moved around, a central server would probably be needed... And if visitors are to be able to view each-other, how is that to be handled? When someone goes offline, do they just "vanish into thin air", or what? -- Carl Read [carl--cybercraft--co--nz]

 [8/13] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 5-Jan-2001 17:54


And make it game "browser" independent, so that Ryans Zork browser could browse the same world as my 3d sound enhanced game "browser". Much of the enhanced stuff would have to come from the client end. Minus the audio/visual effects, most of your 3d games of today are'nt much different than the ones played on the 8 bit computers. Explore, find stuff, kill creatures, and some all-around conquering. A standard method of describing a game physics, background, features, objects, and creatures should get things going. Game physics would be interesting. How many whacks does it take to chop down a tree? What if your the size of an ant? Which way will it fall. When you come back a year later will it still be there? If your the size of ant and you fall from space, will you get hurt when you land. Can a bird fly in a weightless space station? Will a giant's knife work as normal mans sword? --Ryan Ryan C. Christiansen wrote:
> Not necessarily. One of the criteria built-in to the Reb-based "room > editor" would be to choose the "type" of room you are creating. Of
<<quoted lines omitted: 10>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
-- Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst www.iesco-dms.com 707-468-5400 I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -Einstein

 [9/13] from: carl:cybercraft at: 10-Jan-2001 17:01


On 06-Jan-01, <[norsepower--uswest--net]> wrote:
>> Apart from being a tourist in this world, what other possible goals >> would visitors to it have? > In the Zork! world, every "room" had a riddle to solve.
Yeah, that's an idea. But as long as the rules to the world are rich enough, leaving what you do in the rooms up to their creators seems the most interesting approach.
>> Hmmm. To handle "objects" and the like that could be picked up and >> moved around, a central server would probably be needed... > This could be handled client-side with a user.r file keeping track > of things.
Well, that would work if we treat it as a one-player game, but it wouldn't work for interaction between players.
>> And if visitors are to be able to view each-other, how is that to >> be handled? When someone goes offline, do they just "vanish into >> thin air", or what? > The "interaction" part of the game comes from adding your own pieces > to the world. I don't see real-time interaction being easy, except > for conversation, perhaps.
Ah - I see what you mean. Well, conversation requires two people being online at the same time, plus real messaging software, which sounds a bit ambitious. How about just leaving messages in a room? This might (would?) require a central server for the messages, with visiting a room causing the appropriate messages to be taken from there and not wherever the room is. With sending messages being as simple as sending an email to the central server. -- Carl Read [carl--cybercraft--co--nz]

 [10/13] from: carl:cybercraft at: 10-Jan-2001 16:42


On 06-Jan-01, <[norsepower--uswest--net]> wrote:
> I'm thinking of a world where the laws of physics adhere more to a > cartoon, looney tune-like set of standards. Otherwise, the game > engine becomes too bogged-down. Keep it fun, not realistic.
I agree - at least until REBOL has 3D support. (: You also need to consider that non-programmers would want to create rooms, which would mean a room-designer program for them so they don't have to play with the XML.
>> Game physics would be interesting. How many whacks does it take to >> chop down
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
>> land. Can a bird fly in a weightless space station? Will a giant's >> knife work as normal mans sword?
-- Carl Read [carl--cybercraft--co--nz]

 [11/13] from: al:bri:xtra at: 10-Jan-2001 17:17


> You also need to consider that non-programmers would want to create rooms,
which would mean a room-designer program for them so they don't have to play with the XML. Make sure that the room designer code understands plain text or Rebol code. Andrew Martin Plain text Rebol... ICQ: 26227169 http://members.nbci.com/AndrewMartin/

 [12/13] from: carl:cybercraft at: 10-Jan-2001 17:58


On 10-Jan-01, Andrew Martin wrote:
>> You also need to consider that non-programmers would want to create >> rooms, > which would mean a room-designer program for them so they don't have > to play with the XML. > Make sure that the room designer code understands plain text or > Rebol code.
It'd have to output correct, game-room XML, so that'd be its code I guess, though there may be reasons for it to be extended beyond that. Temporary file lists and the like. -- Carl Read [carl--cybercraft--co--nz]

 [13/13] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 10-Jan-2001 20:09


wrote:
> I'm thinking of a world where the laws of physics adhere more to a cartoon, > looney tune-like set of standards. Otherwise, the game engine becomes too > bogged-down. Keep it fun, not realistic. >
I think simple is better too. Based on my ealiest observations, looney tunes have a set of loose physical rules like such: What goes up, comes down. mv = mv + Intent You do not start falling in mid air until you see the ground below you. Moving on... I came up with idea I call force physics. The idea still needs work, but here it is. A force can be applied to a form to change that form. Different force types change forms in different ways. Some forces could be: G-Force tells the form to go to an attractor (down). MV-Force tells the form to go along in its current direction. A defualt force really. PSI-Force tells the form to apply a pressure such as a cut or blunt wound. Temp-Force tells the form to apply heat or cold. Time-Force tells the form to apply the effects of time. Sound-Force gives the form verbal commands. Of course your form may be an ethereal being and just ignore any force that is applied to it. It would really be up to the form you create on how to handle the forces. So if you apply enough PSI-Force to a log, it might decide to become sticks. You apply PSI-Force to a stick, it may just become tinder. Bang that with your flint, and whalla... Fire. A swinging sword may inflict PSI-Force. A swinging torch may inflict PSI-Force and Temp-Force. Flying by the sun may inflict much Temp-Force on your spacecraft. It also will apply G-Force, as will nearby planets. Your MV-Force may cause you to orbit. This is still an incomplete idea, but it seems flexible enough and simple enough to just maybe be useful. A few more forces maybe required to make it work for a variety of games. Further simplification may be in order as well. A few more thoughts... A snapshot of a world (or room) may live on a website. You could possibly visit this room alone, providing your force effects, or through a "reality server" visit it with many people, with forces coming from the server. --Ryan
> >Game physics would be interesting. How many whacks does it take to chop > down
<<quoted lines omitted: 6>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
-- Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst www.iesco-dms.com 707-468-5400 I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -Einstein

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