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[REBOL] Re: What's native?

From: robert:muench:robertmuench at: 24-Jun-2004 12:31

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 00:37:52 +0200, Petr Krenzelok <[petr--krenzelok--trz--cz]> wrote:
> Robert - then they are morons, sorry.
Hi, well, we will see...
> Have you ever looked into Lotus > Notes for e.g.? What is so much standard about it? :-) I saw so really > badly designed apps, that you would not believe it. And it uses native > widgets or so I think. But even LN tries to go web way, so we can end > with really strange mixture of two distinct aproaches, if we are not > carefull enough.
Yes, I know. But you know the difference between the market leader and a 3 people company? LN doesn't has to be the standard way, it just defines its own. Rebol isn't in the position to set standars. On the other hand, if it's that easy to push this non-standard stuff in the market, why don't we just do it? Why isn't Rebol recognized all over the world?
> Then I saw Delphi apps. Man, what does Delphi do? It is like Visual > Basic. It support bad design from the very beginning. You can easily be > in the same league with rebol Starting with form is bad imo. E.g. CA-VO > started with MDI or SDI window as a top window, then menu and menu opens > other windows. While Delphi (well, last I saw was 5.x family) simply > starts with form. Ppl put buttons directly on form together with menu at > the top.
Might be. And? What's the message here? Others are doing bad apps but those apps are used? Well, than there is something they are doing right. My point is: We don't need to dicuss if people are morons or not, if apps are bad or not. The fact is, we have to face this situation! And we need a solutions that works out. If we can't find one, ...
> That is really piggy aproach which I would not tolerate in my > team (well, maybe i am crazy enough, I forbig my folks to use windows > registry - our apps are installed by "copy & run" principle - much > better aproach)
How many have you meat with the same understanding? Yes, I agree. But it doesn't help, if we both knwe it and all others don't care. Than we have the problem, not the others.
> So, company you are referring to either has really good guidelines, or > they just have other agenda why they refuse IOS UI and then - they suck.
Yes, they suck, and? Of course, I can go around and say: "Argh! Why are all so stupid and don't see the value!?!" But this is wasting time, it doesn't help to reach my goal. It won't help me to make some money out of them. What does the best product helps, if you can't sell it? Nothing. I always say: I prefer earning 1000 EUR than 2000 EUR not.
> I would fire programmer telling me IOS is so much different in usage, as > it simply is not.
Are you in the position to do this? If so, go for it! I would be surprised, if this decision will not show up other problems. It's not only functions & features, these are multi-level problems.
> We have Delphi apps, SAP front-end apps, Lotus Notes > apps, web apps. Do you think they share 100% the same usability > principles?
No. Do you think RT plays in the same league like Borland, SAP, IBM?
> Well, sorry for being too stright, but ask those "experts" how is that > they don't complain to possible java apps, as UI wise they may pretty > much suck ...
Because it's not the technology criteria that made them choose this tool. Robert