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[REBOL] Re: Windows GUI apps: Rebol/SDK vs. Visual C++ 2003

From: tim:johnsons-web at: 24-Jan-2003 14:00

Jose: Have you looked at the cygwin project? Have you looked at OOP approaches to C (as opposed to C++)? Do you know about Dynace?
> Actually, REBOL has been a great training language to > help me look into C++ with a broad set of > requirements.
Not enough as been discussed (IMHO and within earshot) about how to use rebol as a prototyping tool and for transformational programming. (Using rebol to write code for other, more verbose languages like C/C++) -tim- * jose <[jjmmes--yahoo--es]> [030124 12:36]:
> Petr, Gregg, Tim, thanks for your input. Here is some > more info to understand my POV. > > First, let me say I like everything REBOL but I am > looking at this from a combined business + technical > focus. Also I've spent about 1 year developing in > Rebol and suddenly dig into C++ and like it a lot. > > I think it's hard to have an opinion on something that > you don't know much about it. This was the case I had > with C++, seen lots of criticism, complex, etc... but > once I started looking into it I liked it even more > than any scripting language, and found it's the > current language to beat for any serious app, either > client or server. > > My requirements are: > > MUST HAVE: > Client requirements > > * Basic GUI, gfx and networking > * Platform that allows me to evolve the technology in > any direction required - this is key if you want to be > in the business long term > * Good licensing terms and low cost of development > * Some critical mass of developers > * Compliance to broadly accepted standards > * Solid intellectual framework > > Server requirements > > Everything built with GNU C++ and Linux (no doubts > about this !) > > NICE TO HAVE: > * Cross-platform, eventually a must have > > I started looking at the nice to have first and found > some C++ cross-platform GUI libraries (wxWindows and > ezWindows) but was not strongly compelled to use them. > This is clearly the requirement that would drive me to > REBOL/SDK, but right now this is a nice to have > requirement. > > I first want to clarify that I do not mean any of this > as a criticism to REBOL, which I really like, but > stating this beforehand will help me be real candid > about the situation I face (I would summarize the > situation I face as: entrepreneur trying to make a > technical choice to build a business long term, not > necessarily a sw business). > > * Basic GUI, gfx and networking > > > Here I am looking at a language that lets me do > anything I want, it's well documented and powerful. I > think lots of languages have this nowadays ! More than > anything I want a tool that I am not stuck with and > that eventually I can code what I want if it's very > expensive to buy or is not available. > > I think my whole point of view about languages changed > when I read one Stepanov's interview in the web (C++ > STL library inventor, or one of the inventors). He > talks about STL and mentions MOP languages (Money > Oriented Languages) and what limitations those > lenguages entail. Well, you can think of well known > MOP languages: Java, VB, C#, .. and although I am > trying to make a money-oriented decision for a > technical business, I am certainly driven away from > any of those languages. > > Platform that allows me to evolve the technology in > any > > > direction required > > > No MOP language allows you to evolve the technology > beyond the basic stuff because it's not good for the > owners of the language. C++ complies to an ISO > standard > for the most basic stuff but everything else is open > to lots of people who are building all types of > serious libraries. > > When I first run into rebol i thought command (with > library access) would let me evolve into anything i > wanted and keep rebol as the glue. Once I found how > unimportant that was to rebol i was compelled to look > into c and c++. > > Are you interested in a particular subject, e.g. > finite-state machines, google and you'll find serious > c++ libraries for it. Math requirements, the same ... > > Good licensing terms and low cost of development > > > I really want simplicity, ease of use, low cost of > development, .. bla, bla.. but in the end only NM > languages (non MOP) can really get there because with > MOP you will be stuck with all types of business > problems or decisions that hamper what you can do. > > Not sure whether Rebol is MOP or non MOP ! > > Some critical mass of developers > > > Rebol's community is the best there is, or the best I > found, but would like to hear from people that are > really facing the situation I do. Again, rebol might > be the best from an academic or IT standpoint but I am > only looking at it from a "for profit" sw developer > standpoint. > > Compliance to broadly accepted standards > > > You might argue that if something is really good who > cares about standards, but standards are very powerful > when they exist. How else can you explain M$ VC7 > compiler suddenly being very compliant to C++ std when > VC6 wasn't ! > O'reilly: what's new in VC++ 7 > > > There is no cross-platform gui standard, if there was, > I would use it right away, but when you're trying to > make money you have to be pragmatic on this. > > Why nobody has built a good cross platform library > (maybe I am not aware) that lets you build a great > looking app in Linux and run it in windows and not be > able to distinguish it from a VC or VB app ? Maybe > rebol will be that, maybe java, maybe stg else ! > > Solid intellectual framework > > > I am an electrical engineer but have a biz background. > Started developing 2 years ago, 10 years after > graduating. I'm spending tons of time trying to > understand what is best from a technical standpoint. > > After looking at any scripting language I heard of, I > ran into rebol and fell in love. I feel the crush is > gone now, specially after I read tons of research > papers and look at modern c++ design books. > > I think it all depends what tool you need, you all > said that. I summarize the requirements as 1) easy to > use client apps and 2) scalable server apps. > > I've come to the conclusion that rebol is good as glue > on the server side but not much else (except small > easy to maintain websites -if you build the tools for > it). > > On the client side, I am still quite confused, so > thanks for your ideas and comments. > > Regards > jose > > ___________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Móviles > Personaliza tu móvil con tu logo y melodía favorito > en > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
-- Tim Johnson <[tim--johnsons-web--com]>