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[REBOL] Re: Windows GUI apps: Rebol/SDK vs. Visual C++ 2003

From: jjmmes::yahoo:es at: 24-Jan-2003 22:21

Petr, Gregg, Tim, thanks for your input. Here is some more info to understand my POV. First, let me say I like everything REBOL but I am looking at this from a combined business + technical focus. Also I've spent about 1 year developing in Rebol and suddenly dig into C++ and like it a lot. Actually, REBOL has been a great training language to help me look into C++ with a broad set of requirements. I think it's hard to have an opinion on something that you don't know much about it. This was the case I had with C++, seen lots of criticism, complex, etc... but once I started looking into it I liked it even more than any scripting language, and found it's the current language to beat for any serious app, either client or server. My requirements are: MUST HAVE: Client requirements =================== * Basic GUI, gfx and networking * Platform that allows me to evolve the technology in any direction required - this is key if you want to be in the business long term * Good licensing terms and low cost of development * Some critical mass of developers * Compliance to broadly accepted standards * Solid intellectual framework Server requirements =================== Everything built with GNU C++ and Linux (no doubts about this !) NICE TO HAVE: * Cross-platform, eventually a must have I started looking at the nice to have first and found some C++ cross-platform GUI libraries (wxWindows and ezWindows) but was not strongly compelled to use them. This is clearly the requirement that would drive me to REBOL/SDK, but right now this is a nice to have requirement. I first want to clarify that I do not mean any of this as a criticism to REBOL, which I really like, but stating this beforehand will help me be real candid about the situation I face (I would summarize the situation I face as: entrepreneur trying to make a technical choice to build a business long term, not necessarily a sw business). * Basic GUI, gfx and networking =============================== Here I am looking at a language that lets me do anything I want, it's well documented and powerful. I think lots of languages have this nowadays ! More than anything I want a tool that I am not stuck with and that eventually I can code what I want if it's very expensive to buy or is not available. I think my whole point of view about languages changed when I read one Stepanov's interview in the web (C++ STL library inventor, or one of the inventors). He talks about STL and mentions MOP languages (Money Oriented Languages) and what limitations those lenguages entail. Well, you can think of well known MOP languages: Java, VB, C#, .. and although I am trying to make a money-oriented decision for a technical business, I am certainly driven away from any of those languages. Platform that allows me to evolve the technology in any ======================================================= direction required ================== No MOP language allows you to evolve the technology beyond the basic stuff because it's not good for the owners of the language. C++ complies to an ISO standard for the most basic stuff but everything else is open to lots of people who are building all types of serious libraries. When I first run into rebol i thought command (with library access) would let me evolve into anything i wanted and keep rebol as the glue. Once I found how unimportant that was to rebol i was compelled to look into c and c++. Are you interested in a particular subject, e.g. finite-state machines, google and you'll find serious c++ libraries for it. Math requirements, the same ... Good licensing terms and low cost of development ================================================ I really want simplicity, ease of use, low cost of development, .. bla, bla.. but in the end only NM languages (non MOP) can really get there because with MOP you will be stuck with all types of business problems or decisions that hamper what you can do. Not sure whether Rebol is MOP or non MOP ! Some critical mass of developers ================================ Rebol's community is the best there is, or the best I found, but would like to hear from people that are really facing the situation I do. Again, rebol might be the best from an academic or IT standpoint but I am only looking at it from a "for profit" sw developer standpoint. Compliance to broadly accepted standards ======================================== You might argue that if something is really good who cares about standards, but standards are very powerful when they exist. How else can you explain M$ VC7 compiler suddenly being very compliant to C++ std when VC6 wasn't ! O'reilly: what's new in VC++ 7 http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2002/11/18/everettcpp.html There is no cross-platform gui standard, if there was, I would use it right away, but when you're trying to make money you have to be pragmatic on this. Why nobody has built a good cross platform library (maybe I am not aware) that lets you build a great looking app in Linux and run it in windows and not be able to distinguish it from a VC or VB app ? Maybe rebol will be that, maybe java, maybe stg else ! Solid intellectual framework ============================ I am an electrical engineer but have a biz background. Started developing 2 years ago, 10 years after graduating. I'm spending tons of time trying to understand what is best from a technical standpoint. After looking at any scripting language I heard of, I ran into rebol and fell in love. I feel the crush is gone now, specially after I read tons of research papers and look at modern c++ design books. I think it all depends what tool you need, you all said that. I summarize the requirements as 1) easy to use client apps and 2) scalable server apps. I've come to the conclusion that rebol is good as glue on the server side but not much else (except small easy to maintain websites -if you build the tools for it). On the client side, I am still quite confused, so thanks for your ideas and comments. Regards jose ___________________________________________________ Yahoo! Móviles Personaliza tu móvil con tu logo y melodía favorito en http://moviles.yahoo.es