[REBOL] Re: Multimedia REBOL... yes or no?
From: nitsch-lists:netcologne at: 10-Jul-2003 21:25
Am Donnerstag, 10. Juli 2003 19:32 schrieb [Carl--rebol--com]:
> Pekr wrote (in the "Frank's Looper Crash Answer" thread):
> >I am curious to know your opinion, because I think if it would be all
> >that easy to do games in rebol, there would be plenty of them. Rebol is
> >the nicest engine for whatever - even game development imo, but it
> >reaches some technical limits (speed, not full keyboard support, other
> >functionality as 3D, better sound etc.)
>
> Some history: when I wrote the "grandfather" of REBOL in 1990, it was
> for multimedia. Those of you who own old CDTV demo CDs actually have a
> copy of a very old REBOL run-time environment that did graphics, motion
> video, sync'd sound, etc. In fact, at one of the very first CDROM MM
> conferences, we blew Intel out of the water (using a 7MHz CDTV!)
>
> In the mid '90s, the granddaddy REBOL evolved for use in cable TV boxes
> (VideoStream, Inc.) and controlled JPEG encoders and decoders, again
> with sync'd sound. In fact, back in 1995, we had some of the best
> interactive TV demos on the planet. Even the folks at Warner Music in
> NY, who were building their own system, asked "how'd you do that?"
>
> But, then, along came shockwave and flash. I knew a lot about the
> Macromedia MM products (I had studied every MM system around by
> that point :), and I decided not to try and compete with them. There did
> not seem to be "room" for more than one, and that fact may still be true
> today.
>
> A few months ago, Cyphre convinced me that we should give it a shot.
> Being that MM is near to my heart, I agreed. But then unfortunately
> Cyphre was hired to go work on other things (and I know that these days,
> good jobs are worth keeping).
>
> I've seen Cyphre's 3D demo (based on Cal's prior), and it's cool.
>
> But, if you want to know the big "blocking point" when it comes to MM
> and 3D in REBOL, here is the question you need to answer for me:
>
> Can it be made machine independent?
>
> There are two possible answers:
>
> YES: great! Let's do it.
>
Scripting & 3D:
http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/bigforth.html#SCREENSHOT
Bigforth has a 3D-Turtle, based on OpenGL,
but IMHO easier to program.
Search for "Dragongraphic"
This Dragon is ugly, i agree.
But in bigforth it flies circles, with flapping wings.
Pure source, no 3D-Modeller needed.
I would like something like this in rebol.
Portability:
http://joi.ito.com/archives/2003/02/04/croquet_the_os_of_the_future.html
Croquet based on squeak-smalltalk.
David is a 3D guru so he has made the interface completely 3D where you can
fly around, see other users as avatars, create 3D objects with scripts and
share them dynamically and in real time in the shared space. He is working on
all of the necessary pieces to deal with identity and security as well.
It is totally cross-platform and is
pure" in its portability."
http://www.libsdl.org/index.php
SDL
Simple DirectMedia Layer is a cross-platform multimedia library designed to
provide level access to audio, keyboard, mouse, joystick, 3D hardware via
OpenGL, and 2D video framebuffer. It is used by MPEG playback software,
emulators, and many popular games, including the award winning Linux port of
Civilization: Call To Power."
Simple DirectMedia Layer supports Linux, Windows, BeOS, MacOS Classic, MacOS
X, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, BSD/OS, Solaris, and IRIX. There is also code, but no
official support, for Windows CE, AmigaOS, Dreamcast, Atari, QNX, NetBSD,
AIX, OSF/Tru64, and SymbianOS."
> NO: then, should we still do it for just a couple platforms, and say
> "sorry" to the rest?
Worlds
and flight-simulators would work.
Worlds (games like settler):
You could implement "settler"-engines in 2D/ISO and true 3D.
(Isometric Tiled Graphics
One could choose based on platform.
Some areas would only work in 3D, but one could meet outside.
Such games could be interesting because each settler could have
behavior-scripts in rebol.
Also the ISO-Graphics could be rendered on a 3D-Machine,
Each Animation-Frame needs 8-16 images from all directions,
motions could be based on physics/math.
Flight-Simulators:
Exists playable for 2D-Machines >= Amiga, so that should work.
All the sugar would need hardware, but nobody would be fully excluded.
And eventually Worlds and Flyers could be combined :)
> I would like to see MM and 3D in REBOL. But, is it time for a split
> from one of the main themes of REBOL? Will the result help or hurt
> REBOL?
>
> Tell me your thoughts.
>
> -Carl
Wreeeowmmm, -Volker
