AltME groups: search

About tables? TeX only handles very simple tables. Absolutely not 
enough to get QML tables there.

thanks oldes, i'll probably ask you more when i get to this :)

what you get in web browsers is that if you have two words in the 
first column, they are very likely to be broken into two lines

| 'image (
                push new
                gfx: none

                insert tail new/contents new: make default-space []

            ) opt [opt 'at [copy val1 2 number! | set val1 pair!] (if pair? val1 
            [val1: reduce [val1/x val1/y]] new/translate: val1)] ; <-- now translation 
            is optional, and can be a pair too

            opt [opt 'size [copy val1 2 number! | set val1 pair!] (if pair? val1 
            [val1: reduce [val1/x val1/y]] new/scale: val1)] ; <-- now scale 
            is optional, and can be a pair too
            any [
                'rotated set val1 number! (new/rotate: val1)

              | 'skew [copy val1 2 number! | set val1 pair!] (if pair? val1 [val1: 
              reduce [val1/x val1/y]] new/skew: val1) ; <-- now accepts a pair
            ]  set val1 [image! | file! | word!] (
                if word? val1 [val1: get val1]
                if file? val1 [val1: load val1]

                ;if none? new/translate [new/translate: [0 0]] ; <- default position 
                (could set this to "current layout position")

                if none? new/scale [new/scale: reduce [val1/size/x val1/size/y]] 
                ; <- default size

                insert insert tail used-images val2: join "Img" length? used-images 
                val1
                gfx-emit [to-refinement val2 'Do]
                new: pop gfx: none
            )

view layout [image img]   and I get a left top 1 pixel border. Is 
this a bug ?

we made a start a couple of years ago but didn't get far
http://www.compkarori.com/vanilla/display/SVG+Dialect

Pekr: the SVG Demo is just a quick and dirty prototype. I'm just 
going to get it to the stage where it can display simple SVG icons 
(for RebGUI). If someone else wants to write an SVG viewer that is 
fully SVG 1.1 (with 1.2 around the corner) compatible then good luck 
... I'm *not* going to be doing that! ;)


yeksoon: see above comments. I'm tweaking the SVG Demo code on an 
SVG icon by icon basis. As long as it works for the icons I use (or 
intend to use) I'm happy - I don't guarantee the code will work with 
anything other than the specific SVG files I have tested it on.


Cyphre: SVG is such a "flexible" standard isn't it? :) One question; 
how did you map SVG "path d" commands (e.g. <path style=... d="M 
10 10 C 20 20 ... z") where there is no "z" command to close the 
"shape" (i.e. the AGG shape command closes by default).


shadwolf: Having our own SVG icons is a good idea as we don't have 
to worry about licence / distribution issues and we can tweak the 
generation to make it as AGG compatible as possible. To do that we 
need to settle on *one* tool so as we generate consistent SVG code, 
and we should generate SVG that uses a single unit of measure, preferably 
pixels, as it's a real pain trying to handle multiple units of measure 
within the same file. I'll continue this discussion in the RebGUI 
group.

view plug-ins should change it a bit, as some things needing speed 
could help a bit, although I fear View would have to be recoded. 
I do remember Dave Haynie (dunno if you know Amiga :-), he once told 
me (in some interview), that they coded they own "small os" under 
Windows, when they wanted to get good base for Scala Multimedia ...

I want to do a PDF emitter for MD2... i've just been too busy lately. 
hope to get back to this soon.

Question: Has anybody written a log-file analyzer tool in Rebol? 
I really must say, that I have looked into a lot of those tools but 
never found a good one. All spit out some information but not the 
one I'm mostly interested in. And I just get reports but can't do 
any trend analyzes etc.

hmm, will have to study a mrtg a bit ... not sure how fast I would 
get to at least few percent functionality .... look at Cacti for 
e.g. http://www.cacti.net

How can i get rid of the border around a link-image? http://polly.rebol.it/test/test/index.html

Yeah .. get couple of crashes per day.

Sorry, it's an extension I think. Go to Tools/Extensions/Get more 
extensions.

Geomol, the real advantage of continuations is for handing web forms 
and to ensure the users get a consistent experience. Check the paper 
Jaime points out

So basically the continuations are ensured by using both the cookie 
and associated storage and the continuation id that is added to the 
links as a cgi get parameter

I'll stop now so that I get more input from others. I imagine many 
of the gurus here have done something like this as this is the thorny 
issue with web apps

I'm administrating some pages where is a lot of text articles published. 
And because 50% of the trafic is done by robots as Google crawler, 
I'm thinking about that I could give the content of the page in Rebol 
format (block). Robot will get the text for indexing and I will lower 
the data amount which is transfered with each robots request, because 
I don't need to generate designs and some webparts, which are not 
important for the robot. What do you think, should I include Rebol 
header?

Yoy could try that as a first step:

-- Create a robots.txt to ban the *unwelcome* bots who visit you 
regularly .

-- Many bots have a URL for help, and that'll tell you if they honour 
crawl-delay....If so, you can get some of the bots you like to pace 
their visits better.

If that doesn't work: you have to play tough with them.

Having REBOL formatted output is / can be a good idea: REBOL.org 
will supply its RSS that way if you ask it nicely:

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/rss-get-feed.r?format=rebol

But *automatically* supplying a different version to a bot than that 
you would show to a human is called cloaking and the search engines 
don't like it at all.

If they spot what you are doing, they may ban you from their indexes 
completely.

Yes.

If you clicked the link I gave above, then you saw a page served 
as text/html  [probably should be textplain -- so I've changed it]
If you try format=rss then you get a page served as text/xml


In both cases, the output is not meant for humans: one format is 
for REBOL and one for RSS readers.

You mean HTML tables?

The cell has a height and width, and the image has a height and width.

You probably need to set both height and width on both the cell and 
the image.
Probably easiest with CSS 
Remember to set the padding and margin to zero.

And remember that IE6 and lower handles this differently to other 
browsers, so it's not easy to get pixel-perfect borders and so on.

what a fight for novice like me to get damnes stupid two images with 
two text descriptions under them to print on one A4 ....

!!! Cookies-daemon script now allows to post data as a multipart 
!!!
do http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rebol/cookies-daemon_latest.r
;sending single file:

read/custom target-url [multipart [myfile %somefile.txt]]   ;== same 
like <INPUT TYPE=FILE NAME=myfile>
;sending normal fields:

read/custom target-url [multipart [field1 "some value" field2 "another 
value]]
;sending multivalue:

read/custom target-url [multipart ["field[]" "some value" "field[]" 
"another value]]
;sending file with field value:

read/custom target-url [multipart [myfile %somefile.txt field1 "some 
value"]]


Source files (with modified %http-patch.r) are in this archive:  
http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rebol/cookies-daemon_latest.rip

As it's part of the cookies-daemon, it should deal with the cookies 
automatically.


The script is trying to detect content-type of the file which you 
want to upload calling get-content-type function, which is not part 
of the cookies-daemon (at this moment)

I'm sure they'll spend the rest of the day in agony that they didn't 
get your real email address. :-)

In Qtask we autocut strings loner than X spaces so that webpages 
don't  get screwed up.  Slashdot does the same/

a question - I have Windows app in cp-1250 encoding. Then I generate 
some html, which is server from Linux. When I look in Mozilla at 
the page source (http://www.jablunkovsko.cz), the browser displays 
some czech chars encoded, e.g. &aacute. But when I save the page 
locally on my Windows machine, I get correct czech chars ...

I found various FTP servers report dates differently. Also the dates 
may not include the timezone, so you would have to assume it is in 
the timezone of the server and get the timezone from the server another 
way. Because there are so many variants of FTP servers you would 
have to do a lot of research to make this reliable, and then you 
wouldn't be 100% sure it would not fall over with some obscure FTP 
server.

I was really tired by Bobik, who leaving rebol just slanders it, 
without proper deep knowledge of what session actually is. He reported 
to various other friends, that Rebol is terrible, because it is the 
only language not actually supporting sessions. Yesterday I looked 
into what "sesssions" mean in php terms, and I have to laugh - for 
me it is matter of few hours coding at max, to get it working ...

and we know that some people never get it sufficiently to be proficient 
enough

What's the problem with sessions? I'm not using PHP native sessions, 
It's just cookies anyway, you send something which identifies it 
on the other side. If someone say, that Rebol is bad, because there 
are no sessions, must be totally crazy. You don't even use cookies, 
you can send the id as a POST/GET variable. With Rebol I have much 
more control over the process. You can make SERVER in Rebol, but 
You cannot do that in PHP. So what, everything has it's own purpose.

Search engines like to index things a user can see.

Thye get suspicious of anything that appears to be built just for 
the.....No surprising given how much they have been gamed by SERPS 
spammers.

Having a human-readable site map has the same effect as a crawler 
page *and* taks you a long way towards having a site that is navigable 
by people under any conditions.
***

The google-approved method of doing a crawler page is to use what 
they call a sitemap:
http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/topic.py?topic=8476

Someone could easily modify Carl's site-checker to emit a google 
sitemap:

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/view-script.r?script=site-check.r

nevertheless now I understand why I sometimes get double posts with 
some chat boards :-)

REBOL's POST , GET etc really need re-working -- for an IT aware 
language posting to websites id ridicoulously hard

I want to do some small post-card system for my friend. He can't 
program much and adapted small php solution, but that solution is 
so basic, that it even does not randomize postcard number in presented 
link ... so you can cange your url and get access to someone's else 
message. That is imo unacceptable.

Hi,

I need another short advice :-)

do you prefer:


- directly accessible menu menu: http://www.creactive.cz/work/xidys/online/

or


- initially collapsed menu: http://www.creactive.cz/work/xidys/xidys_web_hp.jpg

   - with mouse-over effect: http://www.creactive.cz/work/xidys/xidys_web_hp2.jpg

   - and after clicking an item: http://www.creactive.cz/work/xidys/xidys_web_sec.jpg

(dis)advantages to both:


According to company working on our website, there is something like 
slight barrier, when user needs to click, and wait where the click 
does take him/her. According to them, users prefer scrolling. OTOH 
the menu can get long, and e.g. e-shop direct icon is not visible 
(nor is last section), and there is no easy other place, where to 
put such an icon (direct link).

thanks a lot :-)
-pekr-

It's trade-offs Petr!

Dropdown/pullout menus take less screen space but need more clicks, 
and may be less accessible.

Too many visible options on one screen make it difficult too see 
the important links.
Its not easy to get the balance right on the first try.

That's why usability testing is needed, and why usability consultants 
can make a good living.

Hi, I'm looking into Chris' emit-rss.r script, however, when I run 
the

usage example provided in the header, all I get in the my-feed.rss 
file
is this:

No Item Author Details - "Journal Entry title...."


I believe it is used on Carl's blogs, so I'm surprised, it should 
be working. 

Thanks in advance for any valuable clues...1

Any DOM experts here ?

I have a frameset with two frames, and in the first frame there is 
a menu implemented with <ul>.

I am wondering if I can move the <ul> menu out of the frame into 
the top level document. (The frame exists only for the menu, so I 
should be able to size it to zero so that it does not obscure the 
top-level doc.)

This would mean I could keep the website frameset-oriented without 
doing the work of converting it to single pages. And frames allow 
pure HTML to include code efficiently.

I found document.body.removeChild(elem), but I get lost when I try 
to identify the new location and createElement.
Can anybody help with that ?

I found that appendChild(elem) should do the move.

But still difficulty navigating the DOM tree to get to the right 
place where it can be inserted.
eg.  top.frame2.appendChild(elem)  is not working.

Frustration: The DOM inspector says the frame has a property "contentDocument" 
but I can't seem to get at it.

Will, I'll updated my JSON copy script here with your changes, but 
Romano hasn't been around in a long time, AFAIK, so someone (I guess 
maybe you or me) should get joint ownership of the script on REBOL.org 
to update it.

I'll get it updated shortly.

Does anybody know how I can access the currently displayed URL in 
a web-browser from an external application? I just want to get back 
the URL of the "current" shown web-page in an active window.

this one is pretty complete, not free but you can get a new trial 
key every 30 days http://summary.net/

...and at a qualitative level, I think this might be used as a referer...Opera 
does this from the Home Page button.  I don't get it from other browsers.

Anyone have experience using Oliverier Auverlot's Magic! I have tried 
several times to get it up and running but never got there...

I've looked at QM but I did not get it. I did not understand what 
it did. Magic seems to provide some basic gui elements that seemed 
like a quick way to build a website. I'll have another look at QM 
though. 

QM runs on Cheyenne?

Magic! could theoretically be an easier way to start, learning even 
less HTML, but if you can´t get through its configuration, you might 
as well start with QM

I have to say, that I don't get that MVC concept at all. It seems 
to me, like some academic head came with that model some time back, 
while reality might be elsewhere. Do you really desing your apps, 
that its fits MVC model? E.g. that famous Ruby and other DB "automatic" 
schemas which are supposed be so cool have to be rudiculous to someone 
who actually knows SQL. Soon after you start reading docs you find 
out, that when you get to more complicated DB schema, they only provide 
you with excuses that you can't have everything. Sometimes frameworks 
work against you :-) Not that I would not understand their advantages 
otoh, hence I am asking, if QM is really so usefull? The thing is, 
that I tried to give it a try several times, and I did not know what 
to do actually, but maybe I am extremely stupid for such stuff, and 
am only able to work with plain cgi/fcgi ...

.... but - I do rather primitive things. So maybe later with more 
advanced stuff, I might finally "get it"

Best MVC example: OSX. The thing is not the separation all speak 
about (Model = Date, View = GUI, Control = App logic) but how to 
get it to work together. And this is (normally) done by passing messages 
between these three.


Like you click a button and a "loadrecord" message is sent to the 
Data part. IIRC the nice thing is, that more than one "function, 
object, ..." can react on such a message.

I would like to see more examples of how this works. I kind of get 
why its nice to seperate tasks on a large scale site but is there 
still an advantage for a small self built/maintained site.

I'm using dyndns as I have a dynamic ip. 

If i type my url into the browser from a macine outside my local 
network I get my web page. If I do it from within my local network 
(even on a different machine) I can't not get through to the page 
"Cannot display webpage" error.

It's not just http. I'm accessing a mysql server too with the same 
problem resulting. 

I know I can use "localhost but I would need to change my code everytime 
I'm using it locally.

Is QM integrated into RSP pages? I think I need to take a closer 
look (and hope I will get it).

I don't get it... I've always built websites like that. Using a paint 
program to do it is just impossible. :-)

Yeah I couuldn't figure out why I couldn't get the main container 
div to center on IE8.  Kept messing with it and then read where you 
had to declare the DTD for it to center.

cool, we get both functions near the top (R2 & R3) so looks like 
the search engine is stepping up its results  :-)

If you can get to them from the root, then they are fair game, unless


.....they have a rel=nofollow......We have that on a few simply because 
they duplicate content (eg viewing a script, viewing a script in 
color, downloading a script


....Mailing list -- best to index either the individual posts (http://www.rebol.org/ml-display-message.r) 
or the complete threads (http://www.rebol.org/ml-display-thread.r) 
but not both.


....you may get a __lot__ of duplication when spidering the AltME 
archive as every post has a URL, but we display in batches of 50.....So 
perhaps only spider URLs like
http://www.rebol.org/aga-display-posts.r?post=r3wp291xNNNN
when NNNN is 1, 51, 101, 151, etc....


....I think You already have indexed the ML as on REBOL.,net and 
Carl's latest 300 AltME messages, eg
   http://mail.rebol.net/cgi-bin/mail-list.r?msg=45305
   http://host4.altme.com/altweb/rebol3/chat771.html

It would be better _not_ to have index those; it just creates duplicates 
once you have indexed the equivalents on REBOL.org (especially as 
the AltMe last 300 goes out of date so quickly).

Tell me what is unclear there!

about JS libs:

I don't use jQuery .. it's oweblown for what I want (I don't need 
it to reinvent javascript). If I need any complex components like 
datepicker (which I don't want to reinvent) I use mootools usually 
(because you can use just needed parts of it). jQuery UI modules 
(which has this) are very very slow and CSS is so complex I don't 
even start to get it how to customize it.


Dojo always seemed this mega lib that I don't want either. If I go 
to their demos (at least last time I looked) everything is slow and 
unresponsive. I want my things to be slim on code and snappy.


Prototype (mootools does this also, but I think a little less) is 
first generation JS lib (that started it all). I think it heavily 
monkey patches the core JS/DOM objects.. thats why I don't like it.


I also neve use css3 selectors in my JS code (that is a major part 
why people use jquery and likes). I always move relative to an element 
with seekFwd, seekIn, seekOut, seekBack fuctions I have or just use 
ID of element (and then seek if needed).

don't get me wrong, I like that FF is conscious about screen real 
estate.... its just that opening a window with no buttons, is a bit 
drastic.  I hate pulldown menus because they are extremely slow.

set-net [[tim-:-mydomain-:-com] mail.mydomain.com mail.mydomain.com none 
none none [tim-:-mydomain-:-com] '*******'] where 'mydomain' replaces my 
domain and asterisk obfuscate the password, if I send a message I 
get the following : connecting to: mail.mydomain.com

** User Error: Server error: tcp 503 AUTH command used when not advertised
** Near: smtp-port: open [scheme: 'esmtp] 
either only

Get the latest esmtp protocol

OK, down loaded 2.7.8.4.2 (for linux). Now I get 'tcp 535 Incorrect 
authentication data'

I get no picture with VLC

I think it's important to get it working in VLC for the linux users, 
h.264 or not...

it probably goes through many nodes... sometimes you get a good connection, 
other times bad.

did you get any key frame yet?

it's very annoying that it takes so long to get a keyframe

this is strange, it works here on the pc but i get a timeout on the 
mac.

@Gabriele: Is there already known where the hotel in Treviglio will 
be? I'll have vacation before the conference at the Garda lake and 
I don't know how my internet access will be, to get to know easily 
any information new on the conference website.

So, in general how good is Europe about open WiFI?


In America, I think Starbucks offers free internet access (wireless), 
or perhaps you need to keep buying coffee...I don't drink coffe so 
I have never confirmed this.

In general I find that if I drive by any office compkexe I can get 
an open signal though. Even in Maui, I went to the industrial area, 
and there was a perfect connection while I ate at a little food place 
in an odd industrial park.

thw windows version of QT requests application/x-rtsp-tunnelled, 
and gets the stream via TCP, but the Mac version does not do so, 
and does not get the stream via TCP.

will there be a link from the 'devcon' site to the 'live' broadcast 
page?

currently, I uses the link in AltMe to get to it.

for the streaming part, it will be good if we decide on the format 
to use and have it 'announced' on the site.


that way, we don't have to scrable to get the clients or decoder 
etc on the actual day

I get timeouts trying to access the site ... and have over the last 
week I've tried to access it. Any chance of a mirror?

rtsp://217.133.2.35/teststream.sdp  , but not sure you can get it 
ok from usa.

If you do get pickpocketed, then you can call her in for reinforcements.

mid day for me...


which means I get to see probably the first presentation and miss 
the rest as I tend to family matters

must be too little 'rebol' going around...like a lack of caffeine...

can't even get message in orders

I get around 760 RHz

I get 345 on the mac

I get 222 kc/s in the OSX console, where the Windows console only 
gives 39 kc/s

there is something that massively slows down the console under windows. 
I get the same slowness under View with most programs.

I get 13-15 fps on the mac

Hey, that's cool. I get 33.3 FPS.

Console:   0:00:01.082 - 467 KC/S
Processor: 0:00:00.501 - 1724 RHz (REBOL-Hertz)
Memory:    0:00:01.091 - 43 MB/S
Disk/File: 0:00:00.471 - 64 MB/S

I get 25fps on my 1Ghz PIII, but the script use "rate 30" so don't 
expect it to go to high in frame rate ;-)

I can get up to 48Hz on WinXP.

Ah well. The rebcode VM was the basis for much of my own research 
projects. I would really like to see it return, as I am blocked on 
those projects until I can count on rebcode being there and safe 
to use. As it is, I rarely get to use REBOL professionally, it's 
more of an enabling tool.

REBCODE is AMAZING ...


I am trying to convert a 300+ MB file from little-endian 16-bit Unicode 
to UTF-8. I am pretty sure that all the characters in this file are 
ASCII characters, so I can just discard the second byte (0x00) of 
every 16-bit Unicode character. Beside that, the beginning 2 bytes 
(0xFFFE) need to be discard too. 


In these two days, I wrote REBOL scripts for this purpose in different 
ways, and I suffered in different ways, too. Sometime I got out-of-memory 
error, sometimes I didn't. Even if I didn't get any error, the performance 
would definitely dramatically dropped down after few minutes because 
of the memory issue, I guess. I would take me 30 minutes to convert 
the file in my PC. I was trying to make it less than 10 minutes, 
so I kept asking stupid questions in the AtlME REBOL3 World.

 

Few ours ago, REBCODE came to my mind out of the blue. I remembered 
Carl said something like 10-30 faster. Because I am no REBOL expert, 
I'd never used REBCODE before. I took 1-2 hours to read the REBCODE 
document, then I do my very first REBCODE code in my life. Guess 
what? It turned out very well. The REBCODE version took only 45 seconds. 
It's AMAZING.

I get strange result from the sin opcode, is there something special 
to know or is it a bug ?

Gregg that binaural beat thing looks very interesting. I was interested 
in in ELF (extreme low frequencies) some time ago, but I though you 
need some pretty expensive equipment for it (as normal speakers cannot 
play 7Hz wave very well, but after reading a book by V. Marek, I 
found, that 7Hz frequency can be easily simulated by using one wave 
of frequency X and second wave of frequency X+7Hz. The 7Hz freq. 
is then created thanks to modulation, regardless on equipment. It's 
very interesting, unfortunately I had no time to get deeper into 
this field.

Yes, interesting, and with good headphones you can get subsoncis; 
SBAGen even offers boost options, by frequency, so you can tailor 
the compensation to your equipment.

Use the APPLY opcode to get access to any REBOL function. Watch out 
though: When last I checked, repeated calls to APPLY could crash 
REBOL - some kind of leak, I guess.

darn, why does that damn "o" always get added when I write rebcode 
quickly..

The code generator can be your default code too, so code will get 
generated on the fly.

for example if you add 06h and 04h, you get 0Ah which is the correct 
result in byte form, using DAA after such addition, convert the result 
into 10h which is the correct result in BCD form

get the correct offset following the content of accumulator before 
math operation

Fortunately you can call the natives with the apply opcode and get 
the best of both worlds.

use rebcode but not for the video emulation, so we can get it faster, 
soon...