AltME groups: search

It's a heartbeart every 5 mins

Yes, it sends world name and a hash key to authenticate your claim.

What I said above was that if I grep the log, I do not see a "live" 
message from your server.

wait a minute, maybe I have to kill someone :-)

wait a min.... 208....

Could you post a script/logic, which decides, if the world is or 
is not online for 10 days?

Well, does not work like that.  The log records the "raw" commands. 
So, it shows right now many hundreds of altme worlds "pinging" that 
they are "live".  The fact that your world never shows "live" is 
a mystery.

but maybe it was a client problem, don't know. I had to let my worlds 
to expire and re-register ...

Well... keep in mind that on your local network, it's a different 
IP.  10.3.0.88 it appears.

That is a suprise to me.... I thought it was 5500.

server... but, wait a min...

actually, it's:  altme/prefs/debug  (no suffix, but as a text file)
Then, in that file:

events: [boot error ... above list  ]

The log does not show that the world started. So, there is a problem 
on port 5502.

Let me upload a .18 version for you to try.

yes... but I am concerned because I started a new world here to confirm 
the debug settings, and it worked.

try starting it from the altme "Start a World" panel

Safeworlds did not want to see people using or reselling AltME free 
product as a server. So, it does not initialize properly when used 
that way.

It's a feature .. not a bug

I think the big problem is that for users it creates a mystery problem, 
that just looks bad.

You must start your world at least every 10 days (or keep it running 
all the time), or you will lose your world name. If that happens, 
nobody will be able to connect to your world, and someone else can 
take your world name. You can keep your world safe for a small fee.

oh my ... what a logic. If I knew it, I would either buy world names, 
or just run it the manual way. It surely was not obvious to me, but 
imo is not obvious to most users too ...

So let me get this clear in my head as I have the same problem with 
losing world names...if I start a world from the altme start console 
and leave it running it will be fine but if  I start it with -s (as 
I do in a shortcut icon in my 'startup' programs menu (incase of 
a reboot) I will loose the world in 10 days as it is in server mode 
and does not pink safeworlds?

is there a way to "mark all messages as read" in a list?

Unfortunately no. It's a much requested feature.

its real bad this time...and a little different than previous slowdowns..

Would be cool if this message window also had a console like feature 
where I could use it to do some functions like a calculator or other 
limited functionality.

has there been a silent upgrade to AltMe lately? since a week or 
two, when opening AltMe, its window will resize fullscreen and no 
way to resize it, it will keep resizing fullscreen.. OSX10.6.2 AltMe 
1.2.17

ok, that is a AltMe bug on OSX, when clicking the green button in 
the window title bar to max the window, prefs/window/maxed get set 
to true, clicking again won't update that variable.

Pavel -- there's been some difficulties with some groups. Reichart 
is looking in to it.

See [PrivateGroupsDiscussion] for a lot of commentary on the issues.

1.2.18 works fine from where I am. Let's hope it is a good sign for 
the future.

Petr, we were asked for our top priorities some years ago....Let's 
hope too, that those requests are still on the work list:
    http://www.rebol.org/aga-display-posts.r?post=r3wp151x457

its been more responsive for me in genera.... but  the world has 
disconnected a few times since its on the linode server.

Seems a lot more response here (California) too.  16 hops.

Whoa... this traceroute backbone hostname freaked me out for a sec:

 5  ge-6-22.car1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net (4.53.128.97)  47.905 ms 
   46.594 ms   47.027 ms
(In console font 1 and l look the same.)

AltME updated.... When you send a message, you will see the edit 
window retain the message until the server has echoed it.

A welcome update for sure.

let's type something here and now click on a group .... and this 
area goes black .. very unusual feature

mark everything read

 could be done a bit differently maybe, via a setting. E.g. "Mark 
 as read messages older than (days)" ... defaulting to let's say 3 
 days ... so that you would be able to see some recent discussions 
 still marked red .... just an idea ...

Graham -- This is what it looks like to me:

-- if you press send and a stay in the group you are in: the entry 
area goes grey until receipt of the message is confirmed; then it 
returns to your default colours

-- if you press send and navigate elsewhere quickly: it stays black 
until you send again (and stay in the same group)
A minor glitch in a new feature.

Nope .. try this .  Send a message.  After it has been sent, click 
on the "M" and this area turns black

Got a message Altme need a new version, downloading, dowload failed. 
with Altme intel osx, running the old PPC version works ok

I see a duplicate message in the REBOL3 group by shadwolf.

Mark everything read: I suggest more room in the area where the icons 
are in the upper left corner for a row of buttons, where the "mark" 
button could be situated. That leaves room for more options.

I wonder if the dup msg was perhaps caused by hitting return twice 
(during a long delay)?

Pekr: such a button be better somewhere in the area as noted by Henrik, 
not in the edit window icons.

Ah, confirmed.  An interesting thing. The feature is intended to 
allow sending again... as a way not to lose the message when "Internet 
Busy" happens.

Carl, did you see the discussion with YueM? A new user who won't 
use AltME, because he claims it's broken, when in fact it's simply 
downloading all messages, which takes time and he can't post in the 
meantime. To him, the program appears unstable. An intended feature, 
I know, but maybe there could be done something to allow bulk downloading 
on first connect to a world.

Yes, it presents an interesting problem... to enter a large world 
like this with so many prior messages.

I've been thinking about this problem for R3 Chat, and I have a solution 
that I think would work well.  It's essentially the same idea as 
virtual memory, where older messages are not loaded until the user 
asks to read them.

I think it's worth half a day's work to get some fixes done for things 
that have been problematic for a few years now.

How about marking groups read on the starting of a new instance?

Or a separate utility ...

I think that's too specfic. I'd rather have a manual procedure using 
a button. People are used to that from their mail clients.

I like that idea. Such a change can happen very soon, and there's 
room to offer a couple options.

Pekr, there is a new update 1.2.20. Did you get it?

Terry: can you explain 
duplicated itself"? Do you mean it was sent twice?"


I posted a message to a group, and it just stayed grey (yet posted)

I then moved to another group, and it posted it there too, and turned 
white.

Yes, I want that too. One step at a time. ;)

That's a button I've been waiting 6 years to click. Wonderful. :-)

osx10.6.2/intel it says "A change has occurred that requires you 
to download a newer version of the software. Download it now?" than 
it says this file is not found http://www.altme.com/download/altme025

OS X version not updated for quite a long time.  Let's jump forward 
with it and make it a 2.7.7 based build.   However, things are generally 
crazy today... even the weather... a powerful Pacific storm from 
here all the way to L.A. (1000km to the south).  Knocked out Reichart's 
power, it seems.

Andreas: how long has it been slow for you?  Where are you located? 
We moved the server from Canada to Texas a few days ago.

And, later it can be fixed in a better way. But, right now, R3 needs 
attention.

Not anymore. But, that's a good point... probably needs updating 
there too.... but I think they charge for that now.

Why not default a new install to only retrieve the last months worth 
of data.  Include a button much like the "Mark all Read" button, 
"Retrieve History", that prompts the user how far back they want 
to retrieve... or when they search a group, they can specify a date 
and all records will be retrieved in the date range.

there is one issue which is SO ANNOYING, I sometimes close altme 
before throwing out my computer by the window.

 when the display becomes a blue screen if the client loses its connection 
 with the server...


this is both useless and highly irritating, cause when the world 
re-connects (99% of the time on its own) you have to re-click on 
the group, which looses the "unread msg" beige highlight.  it also 
forces you to have to re-click on the text entry with the mouse.


when your internet connection is buggy or a server has troubles... 
disconnection may happen repetitively every few seconds.  the blue 
just makes altme unusable in a situation where it should just stall, 
until a new message is sent.


when a world disconnects, it should just change the color of something 
or put a label somewhere obvious in red color... but don't touch 
the GUI's functionality.... please

(and don't pop up a requestor until it stops trying... like it does 
now)

True... I think the trick might be to make it look like it used to, 
but put a [Sending] message at the top (for example).  You can go 
on and send more, which get cached.  If anyone fails to send, or 
too much time goes by it changes to something like like ["Timed out"]. 
 This is a button in fact, so clicking on it will let you resend, 
and you have not lost the message, or where to post it.


This is our plan on Qtask well, which indeed is JS crap.  Bit by 
bit we are all in this industry figuring out how to make everything 
"Feel" better.  Sometimes it is simply reversing the order of things. 
 Same time, but it just looks better...

I'm getting a busy signal again ... is it only me?

Maybe it's just me, but I never try to start typing until a message 
is properly sent in any IM program, so the feel is right for me. 
Also doing it this way makes it clear what you are sending.

Alternatively, the message is immediately put at the bottom with 
a "sending..." notifiier which disappears when the message is sent. 
That might be problematic for message sequencing in the list, though.

for me I've been stinged so often, and the delays are so short that 
i like the new system.. it could be a bit less dark.. it seems a 
bit "drastic" to me... seems to make it more dramatic than it really 
is.

The vote in my parts is against the gray box/input freeze while waiting 
confirmation of post sent. We are in the habit of starting a new 
post before the msg is received - we can handle the mix up it sometimes 
creates. But not the annoyance of typing into nothingness for a few 
seconds.

I personally think it's crazy for us to rely so much on a closed 
source tool ...

And YueM has a lot of valid points http://synapse-ehr.com/forums/showthread.php?11-ALTME-is-buggy

Our tools should not be a block for new users just because they're 
not on broadband

If you click to a new group before a message send is complete, the 
edit area gets stuck with a gray background. I want the old version 
back.

Yeah, that's a new "feature". Carl suggested puting the pending message 
in the grid instead, but hasn't done that yet.

altme should just add a pull-down to recuperate past posts, sort 
of like a "sent" group.  that would solve the issue for everyone.

With over 21,000 developers I suspect Altme is not going to be a 
good match either!

I don'tt even know if there's a way to moderate new user messages 
....

I would think that's a bug ....

Can a Master please create a group for DevCon2010

group create/remove permissions were resinded after the "epic" (and 
involuntary ;-)  removal of multiple groups only a few users now 
have those rights.

hehe... if you didn't know how to manage groups by this time then... 
there would be a serious mental issue  ;-)

we got a new version just now - same grey box though. I wonder what 
problem people had that is solved by this wait period - it solves 
nothing for my guys anyway.

It's a lighter grey box in 1.2.22, and it goes away earlier in the 
process. The freezes were from before the grey was added.

really! Yes we noticed the grey was lighter. Gave us a laugh :)

A lighter shade of grey?  Is this a Procol Harum revival?

graham, wasn't that a lighter shade of pale?

Ah, I compose posts and use ^s. Different interaction model. I lost 
messages with the old version a lot. Even in 1.2.21 some messages 
didn't go through, but at least they aren't lost any more - I can 
resend.

denis, yes!  :)

I would prefer that the message be saved somewhere ... and available 
in a button to restore than this effect,  That's how I did it in 
the Synapse chat client.

Infact I think I kept a  history so that if you posted to the wrong 
group, you could recall your message and repost.

once again altme reports a trojan on Vista: Category: Trojan


Description: This program is dangerous and executes commands from 
an attacker.

Recommendation: Remove this software immediately.


Microsoft Security Essentials detected programs that may compromise 
your privacy or damage your computer. You can still access the files 
that these programs use without removing them (not recommended). 
To access these files, select the 'Allow' action and click 'Apply 
actions'. If this option is not available, log on as administrator 
or ask the local administrator for help.

Items: 
file:C:\Altme\worlds\rebol3\chat\380.set->(SCRIPT0001)

Get more information about this item online.

Luckily it's a group I unsubbed a while ago

380 is Chat (not web public)

As with all AltME *.set files, it is just a fiile of REBOL blocks, 
each block containing text entries that define one post


It is possible that it has lots of REBOL code thta people have posted. 
Pehaps source code in other languages too; and maybe some REBOL molded 
binary #{....}


Hard to see how that could damage your computer....Unless it has 
become infected in some other way. Have you tried deleting the world 
and restarting it? That would get you the canonical 380.set (assumimg 
you are a member of that group)

I've run a virus scan against that file, and the software I am using 
does not detect any threats.

i was in the process of installing a new version.  I knew it was 
a false alarm though.

While I was typing a message, after just turning on my PC and not 
working on anything else.  I had been in AltME for no longer than 
5 minutes and only read a single group.

Would it be possible to use something like SQLite on the client side? 
I think AM is not fast enough to use. And I don't want to set a message 
limit, I just want to click a group/chat and have it there. Being 
able to make fast queries.

There is a point with any data set where you have to decide "how" 
to present the data fast.

Usually levels of caches, and prediction can make this seem real 
time, andonly when you go to edit something do things slow down in 
the background.

Almost every system out there that is fast in fact shows some subset 
(like 100 lines) at a time. the pulls in the next.
AltME was an all or nothing thing.

SQL is likely to be overkill for AltME data -- especially as some 
posts are very short (LOL) so the meta data and keys are several 
times the length of the primary content.

We picked a different data structure to all-or-nothing in the REBOL.org 
archive (more of a balanced tree), but then we had a different set 
of priorities and operating conditions:
  http://www.rebol.org/aga-display-posts.r?post=r3wp151x4488