World: r3wp

R3 October plan - http://www.rebol.com/article/0432.html

What I most want in R3 console are not different colors or fonts 
etc. , but a way to write commands longer than one line, 

meaning that I can define a function over more than one line and 
easily paste into the console.

R2 seems to delay checking and doing the input after all brackets 
are closed.

I can not understand that this requires a GUI.

IT does, or it does not, it depends. For system admins, they need 
raw system console, so that they can use R3 in windowless environment, 
or via ssh, etc. That is not possible with R2 on Windows. But - it 
is not REBOL's fault, that Windows default console is absolute crap. 
So I think that Carl might be considering adding R2 console back 
as an option (the raw mode still has to stay with us, it is needed).

Windows will not make better console. If you want one, use PowerShell 
(.NET based, IIRC)

Seriously, there are already Windows console alternatives on Windows. 
Let's just find a good one and test R3 in it. It'll be quicker.

BrianH: that is not a good solution. If we want a good one, let's 
have it at least in R2 level. If you want the raw one, you HAVE to 
count on the default Windows version. Suggesting ppl to download 
xy MB crap is not the way to go to try REBOL at all ...

System admins will not surely download better console, in order to 
get better REBOL experience?

System admins won't be able to use a GUI console at all - they need 
a version of REBOL they can call from batch files.

On the other hand, the R3 console isn't that great by Windows console 
app standards - it allocates a console even when started from one. 
It really needs to use the console it was started from if any.

This is why we can't use Console2.

As Carl did not show up here, I think that we should start editing 
priority document anyway. What do you think?

.............................

As I noted, I would be back in a few hours. So... here I am.

The current top priority is to get stdio working properly.  For Windows, 
this is a pain, but for everything else, it's quite easy.

re

S: Do you ever sleep?

So... I wonder what time works best for chat?  If say, developer 
is 4PM in France, then that would be 8AM Pacific time? (Depending 
on DST.)

4PM is not good in France, for those who work

Ok... what time do you think is best?

i would say 8PM-11PM

Ok, good. That's better for me too.

I think that we should announce time for Q&A session, we can come 
up with moderation, if we wish (but not probably necessary), and 
the main person is Carl - so Carl chooses the time, the rest tries 
to adhere. As for me, I have no problem with any time, I just need 
to know - WHEN it happens :-)

1) portable fot system working with VID/draw

2) better way to handle events directly in draw content ? (don't 
know if this would be a gain or not)

portable fonts system working with VID/draw this means a font system 
than render the font for the same font file the same way on linux, 
macosX, windows seven, vista xp etc...,  and being able to know precisely 
the size in pixel on screen of the characters from the font we are 
using any time and any momment ( this is related to area-tc and what 
we noticed developping it actually area-tc rendering engine / event 
system works only properly on windows XP due to limitations in  rebol 
2) 

3) better draw dilect more hum light  and flexible ( no need to give 
the coords and call the text instruction in draw bloack any time 
we want to change the color or the font style of a particular bunch 
of text drawn on screen)

instead of [ pen 0.0.0 text antialised  0X0 "one text" pen 255.0.0 
text  0x20 anti-aliased " red " etc... ]  it would then nice to have 
" text antiliased black "one text " red " red " etc...]  the matrix 
push and clear should be a way too  optimise the management of segments 
of  set of draw instructions ine the  draw block.

dig up one of the proposition made a year ago by carl regarding the 
way draw could   work using aliases ...  hum at that time we hadn't 
worked on area-tc and the aliase to short set of instructions and 
arguement comming often in the draw block apeared us like a meaningless 
thing  but this kind of feature would be nice in a project  like 
area-tc where the size of the draw block matters in many way (debugging 
200K  of draw instruction to back trace why your text drawing engine 
is not drawing the proper way is a pain believe me) ....

shadwolf, graphics are not in priorities for this round of REBOL. 
 we need to finish the core first.  once that is done we will be 
able to fix some of the stuff in the host code ourself, thus allowing 
us to work in helping Carl... but there remains much lower and important 
issues than VID right now.

A few quick replies...

Three things come to mind:
1. Yes, core is the focus.... for me and for right now.
2. View graphics is open source (see next msg.)
3. VID is also open source.

On View: Cyphre was in charge of all graphics. But, he vanished into 
the Qtask black hole a year ago.


If someone else has guru graphics-system knowledge and wants to move 
it forward, that might be a good thing.

I have daily contact with Cyphre, but don't know how much time he 
has right now. Should an arrangement for some more work be made on 
View?

Well, the reason I'm mentioning it is if there are others who are 
also interested.

Maxim is active in graphics and GUIs.... so I was thinking he may 
be interested in those lower levels too.

Yes, good candidate. He's working on !SCARE right now. Some 3D engine 
for R2.

I know Maxim likes OpenGL too.

If he's so busy on 3D for R2, maybe he should jump to R3?

R3 is too buggy for him, but I think he has not considered himself 
getting a chance to fix those bugs. If he has a chance, maybe he'll 
change his mind.

Buggy?

I can't risk working 2 weeks and hitting an issue which can't be 
solved because its an unfinished part of the host.
 - Maxim on R3 View

cause its buggy, cause I've got no time for release 

surprises" nor can I use all of the several MB of code I already 
have which works in R2. going to R3 is a big endeavor for people 
like me who have a lot of code to convert." - Maxim

i'm interested too (cause i already made a partial svg converter 
for R3 ,see http://sites.google.com/site/rebolish/test-1)

But i'm afraid i will be disconnected from rebol stuffs during comming 
weeks.

I think simply he hasn't considered if he would ever be put in charge 
of View.

Although I know he has some very particular features he wants to 
see in DRAW.

Well, a "limited release" of the main host source is not entirely 
out of the question.  Meaning, released to a small group.

I don't want to release it to everyone yet, because it would consume 
all my time to deal with the feedback, changes, hacks, etc.

If it helps to get the host code done first and then get someone 
to work on graphics, maybe that's a better idea. R3 is making great 
progress in other areas, which we don't want grinding to a halt.

Well, my main goal is to get parallel development on it.  So, if 
things are needed on graphics for View, that can happen while work 
is done on other core items.

I think we should get a hold of Maxim and see what he says. If he 
gets free access to the candy store, he might change his mind. :-)

I'm sure he would really like the candy.

Cyphre told me that he is waiting for actual sources. So maybe giving 
him the latest host source would be a good start.