World: r3wp

Scala: too many java dependencies, so not for me.

I tried to install Jira .. but it no longer supports Firebird so 
I was looking for something else

I'm still wondering if I should build my own language (probably REBOL-derivated) 
or dive in a mainstream one...

Well, Jira works fine under Windows .. but Linux requires more knowledge

Well, there's Karl's clone ...

I've heard good things from Jira's users

and of course there's freebell ...

ahh.. ok.. working now

Graham, yes I know that project, but I have my own unreleased prototype 
clone kernels (at least one is more advanced than Boron or Orca)

Looks like Frank did a lot of work on Freebell ..

trying to hammer this out, i fixed the original problem, but introduced 
other bugs.

Freebell is just a proof of concept

something that runs on the JVM would be great ...

(a good working one, Frank did a good job)

this stuff needs some debugging tools

Graham: the jvm is just a target like .net or any cpu...

however, still not working from host.. prob a windows 7 hostname 
thing.

sure .. a virtual cpu

Terry, try to debug from the rebol console if possible

Graham: what's stopping me to work on such clone project is just 
the business model, hard to earn money from that...

sure .. no $ in languages .. Carl has proved that

But it's the long term security of having your own custom environment 
I guess

derivated products like an IDE could be sold, but it will be hard 
to compete with zillions of other programming languages anyway...

or we could start a bounty for rebol on the JVM :)

Doc, it's the same prob.. disconnecting at the client .. Cheyenne 
isn't even aware of the disconnection.

Graham, without money, it's just not worth it, you need a lot of 
libraries to make a programming language useful, no way one man only 
can build all the required ones...but if it can generate enough incomes, 
you can pay some developers for that.

Terry: when he issue is either related to the brower or the OS

*then

so it connects, C (short for Cheyenne.. don't know why I didn't think 
of THAT before) prints to the console "connected" .. client disconnects 
and no response from C

But if you run on the JVM or .net, then won't you have access to 
the libraries then?

Terry: enable verbose mode in C starting it with -vvvvv to see if 
C see the request

Graham: sure, but either you build an abstraction layer other each 
java lib (using a scheme or a dialect), or you'll just use these 
libs with the java syntax, so better use java or scala directly.

oops my bad, C does notice the disconnect.. the function was empty 
:(

Graham: without a tight and higher level integration of lower level 
libs, the benefits of a higher language like REBOL will be reduced 
greatly while you'll pay the performance penality.

The world has enough languages.

So, why do they have languages such as JRuby which in some instances 
can be faster than C Ruby?

I guess it's edge cases, not performances from usual cases (got any 
URL for those benchmarks?)

http://programmingzen.com/2008/12/09/the-great-ruby-shootout-december-2008/

Same function, different syntax. Performance is hardly an issue anymore 
unless you're gaming or modelling

Graham: thanks, interesting reading :-)

Terry: interpreted (REBOL) vs compiled (java) language will still 
have a huge performance gap

I have a PHP library that I've been using personally for 5 or 6 years 
now. I'm sure it's of value to someone, but I just can't be bothered 
to market it to the 500  interested individuals

Graham: my performance mention was for REBOL vs java, not cREBOL 
vs jREBOL

Yeah Doc, but who cares.. what's 2 ms these days?  I/O is the bottleneck.

still, I believe that it would be very hard (if even possible) to 
make a jREBOL with performances matching the C version.

the time gained is in writing .. not execution :)

I would (and do) focus on the future.. HTML5, websockets.. less on 
the tools, more on the results.

Develop mobile apps rather than low level languages.. the market 
is just too small for the latter.

And Moore's law solves the speed problem

Lik e Cocoa.. I've tried looking at that noise a few times now.. 
syntax boggles my mind.. but much of it (iphone apps etc).can be 
done with JS and HTML5..