World: r3wp

large govt => silly laws

large companies => large lobbies => silly laws

many politicians => idle minds => silly laws

Many politicians is probably the case here. Making laws makes the 
appearance of things moving. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad, 
just as long as something was done, so a politician can say that 
he "took action".

Yes

OT?

yes, perhaps move to chat.

Iphone battery issue http://tinyurl.com/25qhpfl

Some versions of PHP hang on a specific number:


http://www.exploringbinary.com/php-hangs-on-numeric-value-2-2250738585072011e-308/

Some ppl say, that this year's CES is going to really start the end 
of PC, as we know it ....

NVIDIA announcing high performance ARM based CPU - http://www.osnews.com/story/24209/NVIDIA_Announces_ARM_CPU_for_Desktop_Server_HPC

And Windows confirms NT and Office for ARM - http://www.osnews.com/story/24210/Microsoft_Announces_Windows_NT_Office_for_ARM

Google unveils UI for Android 3.0 for tablets - http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/05/google-shows-off-android-3-0-the-entirely-for-tablet-honeycom/

QNX based BlackBerry PlayBook  preview - http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/06/blackberry-playbook-preview/

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1349	OSX 10.6.6 is out.

Well, what hope do we have of running R3GUI on these platforms?

First - Carl compiling R3 library to target CPU - ARM. Then porting/integrating 
the hostkit, and that might be more tricky, see Android group and 
related discussion. OTOH maybe one year ago we would thought AmigaOS 
would be impossible to target ....

How versatile is the underlying graphics engine .. can it do touch 
interfaces?  And surface computing?

Why not? Our kiosk systems do work with touch since 2003. I dare 
to say, that I know most touch technologies. Most of those simulate 
mouse ... multi-touch, I don't know. But imo View is as manageable 
as any other app out there ...

Touch interface support is not related to graphics engine but rather 
event handling...ofcourse the events handling code can be enhaced 
for whatever events the platform support.

I should also note the basic/default gfx engine (agg) we use can 
run on any king of brick that support framebuffer so this part is 
the last to be worried about.

And even if anyone can switch to other gfx engine this is already 
possible at the hostkit level.

I must say that the current hostkit gfx abstraction layer is not 
100% polished yet (but this will happen soon) in terms of 'programmers 
comfort' but it is pretty usable in the A110.

anyway - we need two things - Carl getting back to R3 coding, porting 
a library, and someone skilled doing the port. We don't have skilled 
ppl with free time and will to do so, nor the resources to sponsor 
such a non-business case  imo ...

you have to create your own market . .if there is an easy entry to 
surface computing ... let's make Rebol it

I wouldn't say this is non-business case. If I had some  money to 
make mini-company I'd pay Carl to make specific libs and do the ports 
on my own to make crossplatform product for all the newly hyped devices. 
Look how for example Unity3d is succesfull with just Wii, iPhone 
support...

We need a new bounty - buy Carl :-)

And...in worst case even if noone would like to buy such crossplatform 
tools...I'd use them for producing hundreds of  $1 apps on all the 
Apple, Android or whatever stores. I bet there is enough ''iUsers" 
(no offence to anyone here :))  which will buy such apps.

This partial open sourcing of R3 is a failure if the idea was to 
attract a lot more developers.  Fully open source R3 and then people 
can make their own libraries.

Carl is like King Canute ...

Even Mohammed went to the mountain

(For example I know a guy who is now building own house from money 
he made of some stupid 'touchpad' eye candy app he did in 20hours 
and published on Apple store)

well...back to work and sorry for poluting this channel...

Cyphre ... make some eye candy !

That's the point...and with R3 crosplatform tools I(or any Reboler) 
could generate hundreds of such apps with minimal effort.

So, is there a timeframe to declare the current development method 
a failure ??

Or do we just carry on steaming ahead .. irregardless of outcome 
measures?

I still look into R2 Desktop contest demos, especially to Cyphre's 
:-) There's still some potential for eye-candy, though VID does not 
look professional enough anymore. And some other mobile UIs might 
be also using advanced techniques (not sure about 3D, but some transition 
effects are simply avesome)

Graham - to whom do you want to claim the failure? Carl is not here 
to listen, and even if he would be here, I doubt he would change 
his mind about fully open-sourcing R3, although he might be the only 
one, who is not able to see the benefits ...

Using Rebol you can do quickly any UI. Even if you do hardcoded UI 
for each mini app.

Well I guess no one has seen the business plan .. so without that 
we can't judge on what basis we are succeeding or failing

Cyphre .. I'm sure that that is correct .. except the "you" is not 
:)

Well, everything is all about your abilities. If you want to do a 
commercial product you can't make alone(from any reason) then use 
some other free work or pay anoyne who'll do it for you.

This is true .. but I'm talking about making Rebol available to a 
broadbase of developers

Making it so that only a few can use it to the full is IMHO pointless

It is not the way to achieve a broad user base

it's just a question of numbers .. the more users you have, the more 
expert users you will also have.

Look at the Unity3D case. Few years ago it was small team of people. 
Now it has really big community of developers who *pay* for their 
products. So it is not about being open or closed source. It's about 
usefulness.

If you know there is a big market and you just need really good tool 
why you wouldn't buy it for reasonable price?

I'm sure that there are multiple ways to do this .. just the one 
we are using doesn't seem to be it

Any business plan needs to be checked against the aims and progress 
...

I guess the compelling proposition with unity3d is the create 3d 
game on multiple platforms?