World: r3wp

show Gabriele the page. tell him that VID+ is not done until it can 
do what is shown on that page :-)

I just don't understand, what you mean, that it is higher-level-than-VID 
.... if VID, or RebGUI has such style, how is FX more higher level? 
I can't see there any other level of abstraction, or am I missing 
something? I don't want to argue :-) I just want to better understand, 
what might FX provide us with, and what is lacking in View + VID/RebGUI 
.... (I mean other things than missing styles, or styles not being 
complete?)

pekr, the thing is, from what I can see, that for example when using 
tabs, you don't have to think about problems with many tabs, stacked 
tabs or tabs not placed on the top. You just drop it in and JavaFX 
will handle them properly, no matter what you do to them.

I see the code:

model.tabLayout = SCROLL;


and there you have a scrollable tab bar. That should be all you need 
to do.

ah, but that is ONLY problem of style itself, not of the aproach 
taken? Well then, Cyphre added arrows to scroll tabs to his style 
in 1 day ;-)

that is good, now we need that in the default VID+ :-)

it's the same with LIST-VIEW. people use it, because it's full of 
features and you can code pretty powerful stuff in a few lines of 
code. although I don't consider LIST-VIEW to be a higher level thing, 
but a vital and necessary part of VID.

yes, that is OK, as now I understand what you mean. I first thought, 
that you mean there is one level of abstraction upon what we can 
ever achieve with View plus VID, and it sounded strange to me, as 
I think, that if new VID is cute, we can build pretty much feature 
complete UIs ... well, the toughest part is, how to easily integrate 
some html container? We would have to link to some html runtime, 
if there is something like that ... and that would be probably a 
huge effort ...

I'm sorry, if I sounded confusing. :-)

Henrik - call me, when vertical scrolling comes to list-view land 
:-)

you were not confusing, my english knowledge is confusing :-)

haven't needed it yet, so I'm not planning it yet. I'm still only 
implementing features that I need myself. Latest internal version 
can group lines according to a specific data column.

Have you seen a Dabo? Rapid development in Python - http://dabodev.com/
... there are also screencasts ... something like we were talking 
about in regards to video ...

http://rebol.hmkdesign.dk/list-view0.0.50.png

no, I haven't. thanks for that.

eh, I am dumb - I thought horizontal scrolling, sorry :-)

look at Dabo screencasts, they have those higher level styles - splitters, 
etc., easy deign ...

I wouldn't mind a form style, definitely. one that would tie directly 
into a block of strings

interesting - http://leafe.com/screencasts/dataenvironment1.html
.... how they link various states of applications "AfterInit", "on..." 
etc.

 At OSBC last week I gave a Radar talk on current technology trends. 
 The trend of moving traditional desktop applications to massively 
 networked, Web 2.0 online applications like Google Docs is well-known. 
 The problem is, a web browser is a terribly limited platform for 
 application development, and JavaScript is a less-than-fully-featured 
 language....
http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/05/beyond_the_brow.html

maybe someone could step in with REBOL? :-)

https://desktopondemand.com/

This is future (not just) of gaming.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuoOosTdFiY&mode=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI5JmcQv3n4&mode=related&search=

More of LittleBigPlanet: http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/littlebigplanet/news.html?sid=6171030

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4217348.html
<--- Multi Touch interfaces are going big.

http://www.itunesu.com<--- University courses available through 
iTunes.

http://d5.allthingsd.com/files/2007/05/foleo2_lg.jpg<--- can we 
make REBOL 3 run on this thing?

haven't you just volunteered to do so? ;)

you can't buy it yet

Microsoft Surface http://www.microsoft.com/surface/

I'm watching an interview with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates that was 
posted on http://d5.allthingsd.com/yesterday. Jobs makes an interesting 
note at how much better network applications perform than web2.0 
pages, in context with Google Maps on the iPhone. I had thought that 
it was in fact a web2.0 thing in the iPhone.

isn't anything google is doing actually a web 2.0?

REBOL should use browser to following extend - as an deployment media 
to get Rebol/View to ppl seamlessly ;-)

he explained that the backend is not, only the frontend.

perhaps they have "special access" to google backends to shape their 
own API.

and what is the difference? Isn't fronted of web 2.0 (ajax stuff) 
about html, css, js, and that you can have whatever architecture 
on server?

Well, you might be locked into precisely ajax, XML and managing session 
data in a non-persistent way, which is not optimal if you're building 
an application. We already know that, we're REBOLers. :-) He talks 
also about maintaining data persistence across sessions.

it's amazing. it's like he's talking about REBOL. :-)

hmm, maybe I don't properly understand. Does ajax aproach have problem 
with persistency, sessions? Well, I ruined one of our internal apps 
by simply pressing browser back, forward buttons, instead of links 
....

Everybody will talk REBOL in one year, so better get used to it :-)

Bad design, I guess. but you have to remember that AJAX is a huge 
hack on top of a non-persistent protocol. it's by definition harder 
to do these things, than with a clean implementation like REBOL/Services.

imagine a P2P client in AJAX...

Previously posted (and perhaps lost in the flurry) in the I'm New 
group: Google announces its method of making web apps run offline, 
hence a lurch toward the x-internet:
http://gearsblog.blogspot.com/

<<The Gears team believes in the open web and the simple technologies 
it is built on, and we didn't want to change that. So Gears is an 
incremental improvement to the web as it is today. It adds just enough 
to AJAX to make current web applications work offline.>>

I'd say the terms [simple technology / AJAX / incremental improvement] 
are combinable to make several new oxymorons.

I think simple means what a community knows. AJAX etc, once learned, 
is "simple". Change to much and you loose a lot of people. Maybe 
"simple" should be replaced with - thought "beruhigend" - humm, http://www.dict.cc/?s=beruhigend, 
i guess i pick "reassuring", but "sedative" fits well from another 
angle^^

Sunanda, what is your take on that.  Seems pretty significant development.

or anyone else

Making the *browser* the application platform is a nice idea.
But a browser is under-resourced, not designed for that role.

And (like desktop operating systems) there are multiple versions: 
IE, FF, Opera, Safari etc.
That is all problematical.

Millions are being thrown at the problem. But not much evidence that 
it is feasible.

For an alternative approach (which may be just as problematical in 
other ways), look at the Gnome Online Desktop project:
http://log.ometer.com/2007-04.html#3

But its much easier to get all people on board. English is not the 
best language to, except that its so much used.