World: r3wp

What sense makes perfect determinism with multiple physical inputs 
, like sensors or people entering data? The entries and their order 
is slightly off anyway

 You can still have deterministic computation even in such situation. 
 We do have that today with any multitasking OS. Or would you like 
 to have your programs to produce any random result?

Volker, The fact that events can arrive at any given time doesn't 
mean that you can not have deterministic paralellel computation.

No, i want my program to have s much determinism as needed. I call 
"perfect determinism" when i know "this stuff is done on cpu3, then 
the other thing a bit later on cpu4". That is perfectly repeatable. 
But that is not what i need. "this stuff is done on the next free 
cpu" is enough. But to do that, i need a language which can determine 
what this next free cpu is. And for that i need a general purpose 
language (counting cpus, acountig used time, priorities etc). While 
you said general purpose is not needed for a coordination language. 
But maybe i miss simething, maybe coordination means something different?

I never said that you need or not a general purpose language. As 
matter of fact, I don't think being general purpose has anything 
to do with concurrency. What I understand is than any new features 
that add concurrency  to  a language should do so in a manner that 
avoid non-deterministic results. Some languages have already accomplished 
 this goal, usually avoiding  threads. Threads operate more at  the 
OS level than the language one. So I hope R3 bring us good concurrency 
features, that ensure that our programs are deterministic, otherwise 
we could be shipping programs that at first glancelook correct and 
 will work, but could  fail later in production as the paper points 
out.

I understood that the should be a coordination language coordinating 
stuff written in general purpose language. instead of putting coordination 
features in those languages.

And Erlang seems to work good, based on general purpose with threads 
and messages.

And their main priority is reliability, so correctness.

Hmm, did i miss a link?

this paper?

The Problem with Threads http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2006/EECS-2006-1.html

Sorry, Jaime, my last comment was aimed at Pekr..

.... yes, and even I did not understand your point - last line was 
mentioning some shares number. Generally I don't like companies missusing 
weak patent system ...

Jaime - the paper, well. Still need to do some reading. But I do 
remember some liboop link page paper, which referred to another paper, 
where other guys were defending threads and "demystified" myth that 
tasks are better ....

Yes, it seems the benefit of deterministic parallel computation is 
not understood.

If I have 10,000 computations, I might like to send half of them 
to task 1, and the other half to task 2, so they can be processed 
simultaneously by different cpu cores in a multi-core cpu.

Some of those computations may rely on the results of computations 
being performed by the other task, so that means some coordination 
between the tasks is needed occasionally.

Can't find it - but I remember I was moning somewhere surrounding 
following resources - http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html

moning=moving

hehe, it was you Jaime, who posted link to also following article 
- Why events are a bad idea - http://www.usenix.org/events/hotos03/tech/vonbehren.html

so now - are threads a problem, or events a problem? Where is the 
truth ...?

ah, it is about event based aproach vs threading, not task based 
vs thread based one ...

Basically, he argues are lot that threads and shared memory can not 
work,

suggest alternatives Erlang has, mentions Erlang in one sentence, 
and says a real solution must work with mainstream-languages. The 
last point is a good one. But not in our case, because rebol is as 
non-mainstream as Erlang. So we need no hybrids, and lots of this 
arguments are moot.

This diagrams look to me a lot like some things connected by message-streams.

But i do not know how this MapReduce-library etc. works, maybe i 
miss something cool.

http://labs.google.com/papers/mapreduce.html

Yet another attempt to be able to pull information out of the morass 
that is the WWW: SPARQL
An SQl-like language for turning RDF data into subsetted XML:

http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2005/11/16/introducing-sparql-querying-semantic-web-tutorial.html

If it catches on like RSS has, that'll be another publishing channel 
many websites will need to add.

Structure writing with LyX - http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/documents_with_lyx

structured

The release of Syllable 0.6.1 got REBOL on OSNews:

http://osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=14669

Cool Kaj.

So they've done it - a Skype-enabled wireless phone:

http://us.accessories.skype.com/direct/skypeusa/itemdetl.jsp?prod=3059

I think the important thing is that it is PC-less.  Or, it 's a portable 
PC inside the phone!

I was searching to see if it's linux or pocketpc based?

Sure the hacks will come fast and furious once it launches.. cram 
some Rebol in there maybe?

I want to cram a small skype os into this.. 

http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/Port-O-Rotary/portable-rotary.htm

The ultimate .. buy this  http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/?shop=1&cart=673098&cat=1&itemid=416&
(for $399)

and add skype so when you're in a hotspot, you use skype, and cellular 
when out of range.

hmm.. messed up altme.. should say " add skype when in a hotspot, 
and cellular when out of range"

One day, wireless broadband is going to be the rule not the exception. 
 http://www.freepress.net/news/15630

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=14725<--- does this sound 
familiar? :-)

It's an RPC architecture, so it sucks a bit

We have got another competition for View? PythonCard - http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/index.html

http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/samples/widgets.html

The PythonCard motto is "Simple things should be simple and complex 
things should be possible." ... I'm sure I've seen this stated before 
somewhere ;)

http://wufoo.com/demo/<--- pretty nice interface

Really cool interface, javascript dynamism ;-)

Yes, pretty simple and easy interface.

interface is nice, just a bit difficult to place cursor and type 
anything under mozilla :-)

http://www.google.com/googlespreadsheets/tour1.html<--- looks like 
Google are going for an office package

http://www.ajaxlaunch.com/<-- another Michael L. Robertson (of Linspire 
fame) venture.

Graham may want to attend this as well as other programmmers  in 
that part of the world http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2006/06/unenterprisey-languages-meeting.html

Bit out of my way .. it's at least a 15 min bus ride into town!

I just tried Google Spreadsheets and I'm not too impressed. Granted 
the interface is simple and there is centralized storage, but the 
thing is slow to work in and dragging cells can get a bit messy if 
you accidentally drag outside the sheet area. this could have been 
done so much better in Rebol.

Looks worth going, if nothing else but to meet new people.