World: r3wp

dunno how they are organised. They apparently do get some money, 
then they announce possibility to gain some grants ....

Cyphre did find some link to beta Ruby/AGG release, which one note 
of author, stating something like "Download beta release, but this 
is unexpectadly slow :-(" ... which could mean there is still a long 
way to go for them, and we can have REBOL 4.0 by that time ...

It's good to have competition.

Look what the prospect of Orca has brought us ... Rebol3!

graham - my reference was not to Ruby/AGG, which apparently can be 
a good product, but to statements like "rails .... even faster than 
rebol" - whish sounds, from someone who is interested in languages 
so much, like a plain nonsense, comparing language to framework ...

are you sure Carl's motives were based upon Orca pressure?

I'm pretty sure that Carl has been thinking about Rebol3 since the 
release of Rebol2 :-)

Let me see now ... modules were announced shortly after R#?

Timing is curious ...

And of course it is in RT's interest to kill off any impending clones, 
or make them irrelevant.

no matter what anyone can think, as for my limited skills to others 
- I prefer rebol because of Rebol and I can' understand nonsense 
like Ruby has rails, which is popular, it means Ruby is cool kind 
of attitude - Ruby is still Ruby ... and you like the programming 
language, or you don't ... and I like rebol .... :-)

The most curious thing I remember Carl saying was that he said he 
would do it now if he had a million $. That was around the 2005 devcon.

not ... as a long term amigan here, not really sure for modules ... 
modules were there long enough, no? :-) It was components ... big, 
colorfull announcemend, yada, yada ... removed later, when R# went 
to sleep :-))

Henrik - maybe he got his million? Before Devcon 2005, Carl told 
me, that he has got some investor ... not sure how it evolved though 
...

So, we need to encourage Orca is we want to see Rebol 3 progress

Commercial pressure appears to be very effective in prodding along 
Rebol development.

Maybe Orca should announce some feature, then it will appear in R3 
:-) I can see some Io inspiration :-) at least as far as even system 
is concerned - libevent is used for R3, or so I heard ...

pekr, yes, Carl is wisely quiet about such things

Time for Orca to annouce free ssl support

:-)) no you are talking, Graham :-)

Is Orca that far that it could handle that?

but Henrik is right - so far blog discussed only language related 
extensions, but not overall architecture .... I invited Carl to tell 
us more about View internals, open-sourcing model, modules, integration 
with externall world, language extensibility, etc.

When was R3 announced?

the start of development or the first mumblings?

I note Orca mailing list has 22 messages in March, and none in April.

dunno, but you may be right .... maybe Carl saw the situation, our 
requests, and knew that the only chance was much more than just incremental 
update ...

interesting speculations :)

If R3 is successfull, then I am satisfied ... but still ... Ruby 
is much larger community than us. I wonder if Gabriele plus few other 
contracted, can keep up .... still open sourcing to some extent may 
help .... but otoh I ma not sure, if some new quality developers 
would join. I prefer to have rebol extensible by 3rd party developers, 
rather than have it necessarily open sourced. But then I request 
RT to port it to new platforms fast enough ...

... well, but Carl said " I want rebol for my cell phone, and I want 
it now" ... so hopefully porting to new platform can happen at one 
week development at max ;-)

drrrrrrr ..... wake-up, pekr, wake-up :-)

I'd suspect he'd be going for making things as modularized as possible, 
make the core as small as possible so there is very little to port.

I love how much of Rebol is actually written in Rebol itself, but 
if that threshold can be lowered even further with rebcode, that 
will only make rebol even more portable.

the problem is that there is soo much to do. Rebol covers so much 
ground, there would be enough work for 30-40 top-skilled software 
engineers over the next 2-3 years working full time to cover everything. 
I would for example like to see just a bit of focus on the Word Browser, 
make it complete so you could add comments. It's hard because there 
are a 100 other things to do. It's like playing tennis and someone 
throws 50 balls at you. You'd need a really big racket.

Common Pekr, Have you seriously study any language besides Rebol.

You talk with property but then you are not able to produce any code

Ruby rocks and Rebol rocks and Scheme Rocks, and Orca Rocks.

Even Perl rocks, in the right context.

It is better to be a polyglot than succumb on the I don't understand 
that, so I will not use it, and by the way I will bash any other 
language that I don't  get.

Oh, and I've recently discovered that bash can be made to rock in 
its niche

On the other hand, if Pekr wants to be a Rebol wizard and specialize 
in that, it's his privilege to do so..

I do believe that the competition is great, and by the way for a 
much as I love Rebol. I don't see the like the ultimate end of computer 
science,, as matter of fact I see some drastic limitations like Rebol 
can't bootstrap Rebol, because rebol is not compilable.

Yes, Pekr should become a Rebol wizards and demostrate so. Instead 
of talking with property about other languages.

I'll agree with that :)

Ruby and Rails both are making a lot money for some people. How many 
Pro-Applications makin $$$$$ does rebol has. And I mean public knowledge 
not embedded internal projects?

Internal projects should count. Ruby's first major US user was NOAA, 
I think.

My knowledge of this is IOS and QTask. I don't know how much IOS 
produce, but I believe Qtask or more specifically Quilts will make 
a lot of money.

But I am diverging. I will repeat it Rails phylosophy of pragmatism 
and convention before configuration or reinvention is great; and 
the 10 min tuturials are true, becoming and medium level usert takes 
one or two weeks, and with medium-level user you are already programming 
lots of great things.

With abstractions, unit-testing, versioning, environment scoping 
(development, testing, production), autodomentation, portability, 
compatibility (any SQL db here), etc. Rails rocks.

Yeah, I can do a lot of  this with Rebol, but I will spend more than 
10 minutes to have basic CRUD (Create, Read, Update, Destroy) code, 
and much more it I want all of the rest.

Jaime - you never so my code, so don't try to pretend I am not able 
to code. That I don't produce any code does not mean I am not able 
to. I have different orientation at my current job, that is all. 
And of course, I am really not a good coder to provide code of Cyphre 
level quality.