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Another day, another project

 [1/13] from: maarten::vrijheid::net at: 7-Nov-2003 13:39


Hi all, I just signed the contract with Gregg for a very nice project. Gregg will develop an SSL tunnel installer that will interact with a portal to get its configuration parameters. For the installer he will develop an install toolkit/dialect (as a side-effect). If you're an SDK user you'll be able to generate *cross-platform* installers. As the toolkit will be open source (as well as the Stunnel installer) this will hopefully be a GOOD alternative to all those 30Mb Java installers as well. Stay tuned.... this will be finished this year. --Maarten

 [2/13] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 7-Nov-2003 14:11


Maarten Koopmans wrote:
>Hi all, >I just signed the contract with Gregg for a very nice project.
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
>installer) this will hopefully be a GOOD alternative to all those 30Mb >Java installers as well.
I may be dumb but I don't understand - do you mean general sw installer package? Cross platform, done in rebol, so e.g. Delphi developer uses such installer to install his/her app? But most programming environments have their installers anyway? So what is Stunnel? What about contracting someone to create web browser plug-in, so that in first phase View based apps could be run directly from webpage link and in second phase View would be embedded inside browser window? :-) The question is - do we have technical skills to do something like that? If so, money could be found imo ;-) -pekr-

 [3/13] from: andreas:bolka:gmx at: 7-Nov-2003 14:27


Friday, November 7, 2003, 1:39:54 PM, Maarten wrote:
> Gregg will develop an SSL tunnel installer that will interact with a > portal to get its configuration parameters. For the installer he > will develop an install toolkit/dialect (as a side-effect).
an installer for stunnel (as in http://www.stunnel.org/) or for some other SSL tunneling toolkit?
> If you're an SDK user you'll be able to generate *cross-platform* > installers. As the toolkit will be open source (as well as the > Stunnel installer) this will hopefully be a GOOD alternative to all > those 30Mb Java installers as well.
sounds nice, indeed. -- Best regards, Andreas

 [4/13] from: maarten:vrijheid at: 7-Nov-2003 16:51


Hi,
> an installer for stunnel (as in http://www.stunnel.org/) or for some > other SSL tunneling toolkit?
Stunnel. With a portal to generate configs for your audience. All open source.
> > If you're an SDK user you'll be able to generate *cross-platform* > > installers. As the toolkit will be open source (as well as the > > Stunnel installer) this will hopefully be a GOOD alternative to all > > those 30Mb Java installers as well. > > sounds nice, indeed. >
I hope it is (or will be...). --Maarten

 [5/13] from: maarten:vrijheid at: 7-Nov-2003 16:50


Hi Pekr,
> I may be dumb but I don't understand - do you mean general sw
installer
> package? Cross platform, done in rebol, so e.g. Delphi developer uses > such installer to install his/her app?
Yes, as a side effect. Gregg's install toolkit will be cross-platform and more versatile: you have the complete REBOL interpreter for builidng custom screens. Think about interacting with a XML-RPC service.
> But most programming environments > have their installers anyway? So what is Stunnel?
See www.stunnel.org We have a portal where you generate Stunnel configs (defining services etc.) for your specific institution. Gregg's installer will interact with that, fetch your config, do auto update for *your* config etc. But to build that he'll need an install toolkit, so....
> What about contracting someone to create web browser plug-in, so that
in
> first phase View based apps could be run directly from webpage link
and
> in second phase View would be embedded inside browser window? :-) The > question is - do we have technical skills to do something like that?
If
> so, money could be found imo ;-) >
I have no need for that in any project I'm managing. Sorry. --Maarten

 [6/13] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 7-Nov-2003 18:56


Maarten Koopmans wrote:
>Hi Pekr, >>What about contracting someone to create web browser plug-in, so that in
<<quoted lines omitted: 12>>
>> >I have no need for that in any project I'm managing. Sorry.
Heh - then I am really dumb :-) Sometimes I wonder quite opposite - what is other stuff usefull for, while browser plug-ins are imo kind of a killer app ... I have to miss something then ... -pekr-

 [7/13] from: maarten:vrijheid at: 7-Nov-2003 19:44


> Heh - then I am really dumb :-) Sometimes I wonder quite opposite -
what
> is other stuff usefull for, while browser plug-ins are imo kind of a > killer app ... I have to miss something then ... > > -pekr-
You'r not dumb, but persistent ;-) The thing is that I can use REBOL in two projects because it is cross-platform, small, has a GUI and is network capable. And it generates executables. TCL/TK would have been the only other option, but I don't know any TCL/TK developers in the same league as Gabriele/Gregg. If this had to be web-based, I would have either chosen a different technology or a plug-in would have been built. Look at it differently: there are two projects that will fullfill a need for people who want to work at home (securely) or ISPs that want to provide a user-friendly analysis tool. Both REBOL based showing some stuff that is not done yet and as open source available, so people can see what is done and *how* it is done. One step at a time... By solving a concrete problem in a superb way the REBOL community is helped best. As a project manager I don't care about the technology, so the fact that REBOL works here is a plus by itself. Hopefully some people will be blown away by what I (we) can show them. --Maarten

 [8/13] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 7-Nov-2003 12:22


Hi Petr, PK> Heh - then I am really dumb :-) Sometimes I wonder quite opposite - what PK> is other stuff usefull for, while browser plug-ins are imo kind of a PK> killer app ... I have to miss something then ... We all just have different needs. I don't particularly want things to run in a browser, though I can see the benefit for more general use. It's not near the top of my priority list though. -- Gregg

 [9/13] from: SunandaDH:aol at: 7-Nov-2003 14:36


Maarten:
> I just signed the contract with Gregg for a very nice project.
Good luck, guys!!! Sunanda.

 [10/13] from: ed:brittlestar at: 7-Nov-2003 21:58


Petr wrote:
> Heh - then I am really dumb :-) Sometimes I wonder quite opposite - what > is other stuff usefull for, while browser plug-ins are imo kind of a > killer app ... I have to miss something then ...
I think it would be neat to have /Core or /View run in a browser, but I don't expect it play a factor in the popularity of REBOL. Plugins have always been reviled by users of all levels. I doubt Flash would be nearly as popular as it is if it weren't pre-installed with Internet Explorer. In fairness, Flash is as tiny as /Core, it runs on multiple platforms (the major ones, at least) and it's quite popular on a large demographic of websites (sports, entertainment, kids sites, etc.). Plus Macromedia has comprehensive tools and credibility with designers, something that is not to be underestimated. Sure, some programmers may despise Flash's creaky foundation, but enough of them forgive the shortcomings long enough to produce useful apps. Inexplicably the programming world plods ahead despite being almost totally incongruous with the REBOL philosophy ;^) When thinking about a /View plugin, I'm reminded of TCL, which has had a browser plugin (http://www.tcl.tk/software/plugin/) for a long time, back when Java applets seemed so promising. Yet it never really took off-- when is the last time you saw a website with a browser ticklet? Startups in the thin-client space such as Laszlo (http://www.laszlosystems.com/) have worked around the plug-in problem by targeting Flash as the output format (a la RebOldes Flash Generator). And Laszlo has been attracting investors and building a customer-base, unlike Curl (http://www.curl.com) which seems to have lost momentum with its heavy plugin approach. Ed

 [11/13] from: antonr:iinet:au at: 8-Nov-2003 15:05


That sounds great, I'd be very interested, since once upon a time, I had a go at stunnel. Anton.

 [12/13] from: Rebolinth:nodep:dds:nl at: 24-Dec-2003 22:45


Hiya Maarten / Gregg, Intresting idea, though I dont see the full potential in it YET, are you trying to replace an existing tool/protocol? Makeing something opensource does not garanty the use of it or the exploit of it. Im just wondering why you make it opensource... Regards, Norman. -- Conversation/lunch: "How do you Eat your Rebol in the Morning?"

 [13/13] from: maarten:vrijheid at: 8-Nov-2003 13:49


Hi Norman,
> Intresting idea, though I dont see the full potential in it YET, are > you trying to replace an existing tool/protocol?
We are making ane existing tool (Stunnel) more user friendly for end users. This will e.g. make working at home much easier. That has the side effect that there will be a nice install toolkit.
> Makeing something opensource does not garanty > the use of it or the exploit of it. > Im just wondering why you make it opensource...
I agree. But for my audience (as a Research Network) ir makes things much easier if it is open source. Just be patient... --Maarten

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