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does REBOL run on Palm or not?

 [1/17] from: princepawn:lycos at: 11-Sep-2000 6:52


I did not see a Palm release of REBOL/Core on the downloads page at rebol.com... does it only run on Palms and Handhelds in theory for the present time? If so, when is this going to become reality?

 [2/17] from: kevin:sunshinecable at: 11-Sep-2000 12:05


> I did not see a Palm release of REBOL/Core on the downloads page at > rebol.com... does it only run on Palms and Handhelds in theory for > the present time? If so, when is this going to become reality?
Some time ago RT placed Palm development on indefinite hold due to some OS limitations (small stack size and non-standard file system were the two biggies, IIRC). They did say that if Palm solves the OS limitations that they would consider putting it on the burner again. I'd like to see Rebol run on my Palm 3x, but with all the other projects RT has on the go right now, I'll wait and keep messing with Rebol on my servers and desk machines for now. I doubt that handheld Rebol will be out any time soon. Regards, Kev ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kevin McKinnon, System/Network Administrator [kevin--sunshinecable--com] Sunshine Communications http://www.sunshinecable.com PGP Public Key: http://www.dockmaster.net/pgp.html PGP 6.0 www.pgp.com

 [3/17] from: rishi:picostar at: 11-Sep-2000 12:25


I personally think rebol technologies is either brilliant or insane. How the heck do you support 40+ platforms? It must be a nightmare. With so many platforms to support, how can they even have time to upgrade rebol? I don't understand how they can do it (especially with under 20 programmers!)? With the programs we are creating at work, I have a hard enough time just dealing with just one platform (then again...it's windows...) Actually, I think they are brilliant and insane. I don't know how they can do it, but I'm glad they can!! Rishi

 [4/17] from: holger:rebol at: 11-Sep-2000 13:28


On Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 12:25:06PM -0700, [rishi--picostar--com] wrote:
> I personally think rebol technologies is either brilliant or insane. How the heck do you support 40+ > platforms?
42 at the moment.
> It must be a nightmare. With so many platforms to support, how can they even have time to > upgrade rebol? I don't understand how they can do it (especially with under 20 programmers!)?
Under 20 ? I wish... Try 5 :-) -- Holger Kruse [holger--rebol--com]

 [5/17] from: rchristiansen:pop:isdfa:sei-it at: 11-Sep-2000 16:28


> > It must be a nightmare. With so many platforms to support, how can they > > even have time to upgrade rebol? I don't understand how they can do it > > (especially with under 20 programmers!)? > > Under 20 ? I wish... Try 5 :-)
You all deserve a raise.

 [6/17] from: jeff:rebol at: 11-Sep-2000 15:04


Howdy, Ryan:
> > Under 20 ? I wish... Try 5 :-) > > You all deserve a raise.
GRIN. to-money make hash! [] -jeff

 [7/17] from: al:bri:xtra at: 12-Sep-2000 12:10


Rebol-Crew-Salary: to money! 1000000000.00 Andrew Martin ICQ: 26227169 http://members.ncbi.com/AndrewMartin/ http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/

 [8/17] from: tbrownell::yahoo at: 11-Sep-2000 23:24


to-money random 1000000 TBrownell --- [jeff--rebol--net] wrote:

 [9/17] from: alex:pini:mclink:it at: 12-Sep-2000 13:53


>- Open Your Mind -<
Quoting from [kevin--sunshinecable--com's] message (11-Sep-00 21:05:52). k> I'd like to see Rebol run on my Palm 3x, but with all the other k> projects RT has on the go right now, I'll wait and keep messing with k> Rebol on my servers and desk machines for now. I doubt that handheld k> Rebol will be out any time soon. [[[ JUST-DREAMING MODE ON ]]] Maybe with the Tao-based new Amiga? [[[ JUST-DREAMING MODE OFF ]]] Alessandro Pini ([alex--pini--mclink--it]) I can't live without my telephone! (Cold Cut)

 [10/17] from: g:santilli:tiscalinet:it at: 13-Sep-2000 11:42


[Al--Bri--xtra--co--nz] wrote:
> Rebol-Crew-Salary: to money! 1000000000.00
So Andrew, are you volunteering to pay that salary? ;-) 8^P, Gabriele. -- Gabriele Santilli <[giesse--writeme--com]> - Amigan - REBOL programmer Amiga Group Italia sez. L'Aquila -- http://www.amyresource.it/AGI/

 [11/17] from: al:bri:xtra at: 13-Sep-2000 21:59


> > Rebol-Crew-Salary: to money! 1000000000.00 > > So Andrew, are you volunteering to pay that salary? ;-)
I'm working hard at getting a billion people to each pay $1.00... :-) Andrew Martin Taking a one cent cut for "costs"... ICQ: 26227169 http://members.ncbi.com/AndrewMartin/ http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/

 [12/17] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 13-Sep-2000 12:19


[Al--Bri--xtra--co--nz] wrote:
> > > Rebol-Crew-Salary: to money! 1000000000.00 > > > > So Andrew, are you volunteering to pay that salary? ;-) > > I'm working hard at getting a billion people to each pay $1.00... :-)
We could at least get REBOL much more accepted and popular if /Browse would exist for IE and Mozillla/Netscape at least, or just making agreement with MS or AOL to include REBOL/View amongst their install options. Of course /View capabilities (e.g.) VID are not still set in stone, but .... I doubt though it will happen if /View can run only in separate window ... mixing default Browser window output (html & similar stuff) with one or more /View screens inside could look cool. Great for forms, etc. .... Ordinary joe users would become familiar with the word "REBOL" and it would of course mean even big boys would have to start taking care ... just reverse scenarion of RT strategy it seems to me ... -pekr-

 [13/17] from: brett:codeconscious at: 13-Sep-2000 23:07


> We could at least get REBOL much more accepted and popular if /Browse > would exist for IE and Mozillla/Netscape at least, or just making > agreement with MS or AOL to include REBOL/View amongst their install > options. Of course /View capabilities (e.g.) VID are not still set in > stone, but ....
I doubt that MS would like to support a new way to bypass their technologies unless is was forced on them. Even then they would be squirming. Consider their response to Java and the JVM. Even before that they were not interested in the web - no - more likely hating the thought of what HTML could do to the use of the Windows API. Why because, roughly, both are GUI descriptions. Now we have RT producing Rebol/View. View will compete with HTML, Java, Windows API, etc. Ambitious, but timely. In the marketing speak, the impression is formed that View is aimed at a niche, but that niche is the same one the rest of the world is aiming at as well. All these languages and technologies are fighting for mindshare. MS wants first retain mindshare, then to keep converting that mindshare to dollars in the most extractive way possible. Same for all commercial technologies. Look at some of the competition. HTML. Today's standard - for applications delivers similar performance to a green screen 20 years ago but with more complexity. For designers, HTML is not a medium to work with it is a beast that has to be tamed - repeatedly for each browser, each version, each new W3C inspired "good idea ... at the time". JAVA. As far as I'm concerned, a nice 3GL. In computing terms about 10 years too late - would have been great when client server became the rage. Windows API. Well not really part of today's scene since everyone is talking the Net - who wants to develop for one machine/platform any more? So will View win? I don't know. A better question is will it survive and be prosperous - I certainly hope so. Brett. P.S. When I first saw that Rebol was destined for the Palm I thought Coool - 'cause I've got one 'em. But I can understand the limitations. Now what I'm really interested in is how can Rebol work with the Crusoe chip. I suspect it could make some really nice uses of this chip. Though I'm guessing that it might be a while yet to see what opportunities open up with it.

 [14/17] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 13-Sep-2000 14:43


[brett--codeconscious--com] wrote:
> > We could at least get REBOL much more accepted and popular if /Browse > > would exist for IE and Mozillla/Netscape at least, or just making
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> I doubt that MS would like to support a new way to bypass their technologies > unless is was forced on them.
Hmm, their technologies? What do you mean by "their" here? HTML is not their, although they are trying to introduce new stuff even here sometimes ....
> Even then they would be squirming. Consider > their response to Java and the JVM. Even before that they were not > interested in the web - no - more likely hating the thought of what HTML > could do to the use of the Windows API. Why because, roughly, both are GUI > descriptions. >
OK, I thought REBOL/View could be concidered plug-in rather than JAVA like competitor. And there's plenty of plug-ins delivered with browsers - just look at Netscape help/about-plug-ins menu ....
> Now we have RT producing Rebol/View. View will compete with HTML, Java,
Hmm, do we really want to compete at current initial state of things? I thought we are thinking about REBOL being complementary or supportive technology, rather than competitive one ...
> Windows API, etc. Ambitious, but timely. In the marketing speak, the > impression is formed that View is aimed at a niche, but that niche is the > same one the rest of the world is aiming at as well. >
Well, I just don't believe today is another way than thru public presence. /Express will surely bring RT some money, but not enough popularity. I don't believe in such kind of marketing going thru big and reach companies only. Look at ICQ, Gnutella, Napster - all becoming stars thru public use, not corporate one ... That's why I proposed RT should concentrate more on core technology, and bringing in more mechanisms for media stuff, effects etc.
> All these languages and technologies are fighting for mindshare.
I dare to consider REBOL being more platform than "just" language or technology ....
> MS wants > first retain mindshare, then to keep converting that mindshare to dollars in > the most extractive way possible. Same for all commercial technologies. >
MS? So try with others - Opera, Mozilla, Netscape, etc ... we need REBOL/View bundled ....
> Look at some of the competition. > HTML. Today's standard - for applications delivers similar performance to a > green screen 20 years ago but with more complexity. For designers, HTML is > not a medium to work with it is a beast that has to be tamed - repeatedly > for each browser, each version, each new W3C inspired "good idea ... at the > time". >
OK, you are right, but I still think we have to fill gapes, complement current technologies, not go against them ...
> JAVA. As far as I'm concerned, a nice 3GL. In computing terms about 10 years > too late - would have been great when client server became the rage. > Windows API. Well not really part of today's scene since everyone is talking > the Net - who wants to develop for one machine/platform any more? >
.Net is FUD. The are stealing from others. Look at what is amiga doing with Tao technology .... Much cooler and will win. I pray for times where good technologies wins over commerce ....
> So will View win? I don't know. A better question is will it survive and be > prosperous - I certainly hope so. >
I wish so too ... -pekr-
> Brett. > > P.S. When I first saw that Rebol was destined for the Palm I thought Coool - > 'cause I've got one 'em. But I can understand the limitations. Now what I'm > really interested in is how can Rebol work with the Crusoe chip. I suspect > it could make some really nice uses of this chip. Though I'm guessing that > it might be a while yet to see what opportunities open up with it.
What has to do REBOL with Crusoe chip? REBOL is hosted, so it has to live upon existing OS infrastructure. Once you've got some OS running upon Crusoe chip (which is X86 compatible anyway), you can ask RT to support your OS. Or you thought about Crusou containing REBOL instead of X86 code? :-) Sci-fi :-)

 [15/17] from: brett:codeconscious at: 14-Sep-2000 1:16


----- Original Message ----- From: <[Petr--Krenzelok--trz--cz]> To: <[list--rebol--com]> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 10:43 PM Subject: [REBOL] does REBOL run on Palm or not? Re:(11)
> [brett--codeconscious--com] wrote: > > > We could at least get REBOL much more accepted and popular if /Browse
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> > > > I doubt that MS would like to support a new way to bypass their
technologies
> > unless is was forced on them. > > Hmm, their technologies? What do you mean by "their" here? HTML is not
their,
> although they are trying to introduce new stuff even here sometimes ....
Their technologies = all the software they have written that goes into turning pixels on your monitor on and off after you have pushed the power button and hit a few keys or clicked the mouse with the purpose of reading the latest at the Olympics. Some of the major components being OS stuff, GUI stuff, Development tools, Productivity applications, etc. They want to get as much money for these things as possible. And yes, they might even think of HTML as theirs since they would like to believe they own the platform :)
> > Even then they would be squirming. Consider > > their response to Java and the JVM. Even before that they were not > > interested in the web - no - more likely hating the thought of what HTML > > could do to the use of the Windows API. Why because, roughly, both are
GUI
> > descriptions. > > > > OK, I thought REBOL/View could be concidered plug-in rather than JAVA like > competitor. And there's plenty of plug-ins delivered with browsers - just
look
> at Netscape help/about-plug-ins menu ....
Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the plug-ins are not smart in the sense that a Rebol or Java program is. That is they tend to add a specific capability within the context of browsing as opposed to having an ability to provide an alternative to browsing. I'm not disputing the desirability of having a Rebol plugin - I think it would be great and would probably help in the adoption of Rebol. I just don't think it will be necessarily received with open arms by other software vendors.
> > Now we have RT producing Rebol/View. View will compete with HTML, Java, > > Hmm, do we really want to compete at current initial state of things? I
thought
> we are thinking about REBOL being complementary or supportive technology,
rather
> than competitive one ...
As a developer I think of it complementing other technologies that I have access to. If you are a software vendor however, you are thinking "I want the next developer to choose my product over that other one when he goes to write his next application, e-commerce thingy or whatever". That is the competition that View is entered into by default. No choice of want to or not - just is. The vendor (say MS) will ask the question - is this Rebol thing a threat to any of my revenues? If yes, don't help, bag-out, crush, ignore, whatever. If no - "oh yeah we luv these guys".
> > Windows API, etc. Ambitious, but timely. In the marketing speak, the > > impression is formed that View is aimed at a niche, but that niche is
the
> > same one the rest of the world is aiming at as well. > > > > Well, I just don't believe today is another way than thru public presence.
True enough.
> /Express will surely bring RT some money, but not enough popularity. I
don't
> believe in such kind of marketing going thru big and reach companies only. > Look at ICQ, Gnutella, Napster - all becoming stars thru public use, not
corporate
> one ...
I agree that the popularity issue is the key to success (defines success?). How much money does Napster, etc make for a corporate? = minus millions Who extracts money from people in order to pay for technologies? corporates (or maybe govts) I would like the money aspect to be not important but the isms like capitalism, consumerism, etc ain't finished yet.
> ... > That's why I proposed RT should concentrate more on core technology, and > bringing in more mechanisms for media stuff, effects etc.
Maybe you are right. PHP has become popular because it is useful, not necessarily for its internal beauty (as far as I can tell).
> > All these languages and technologies are fighting for mindshare. > > I dare to consider REBOL being more platform than "just" language or
technology If I put my suit on and walk out the door tommorrow looking for a paying contract for Rebol work, I am very unlikely to find one. If I look for an Oracle (or ASP or Java, etc) contract I'll have plenty to shoot for. That is what I meant by mindshare. But yes, Rebol has the feel of being more than a programming language or narrow technology. I struggle with trying to get my head around the true possibilities of Rebol. [Any Guru got a "expand your mind" article I can read? :)]
> .... > > > MS wants > > first retain mindshare, then to keep converting that mindshare to
dollars in
> > the most extractive way possible. Same for all commercial technologies. > > > > MS? So try with others - Opera, Mozilla, Netscape, etc ... we need
REBOL/View
> bundled ....
It is a good idea.
> > Look at some of the competition. > > HTML. Today's standard - for applications delivers similar performance
to a
> > green screen 20 years ago but with more complexity. For designers, HTML
is
> > not a medium to work with it is a beast that has to be tamed -
repeatedly
> > for each browser, each version, each new W3C inspired "good idea ... at
the
> > time". > > > > OK, you are right, but I still think we have to fill gapes, complement
current
> technologies, not go against them ... > > > JAVA. As far as I'm concerned, a nice 3GL. In computing terms about 10
years
> > too late - would have been great when client server became the rage. > > Windows API. Well not really part of today's scene since everyone is
talking
> > the Net - who wants to develop for one machine/platform any more? > > > > .Net is FUD. The are stealing from others. Look at what is amiga doing
with Tao
> technology .... Much cooler and will win.
By Net I meant internet not MS.NET. I pray for times where good
> technologies wins over commerce ....
Same here, I hope one day it happens. Actually I think it did once - DEC a while ago, but then Compaq bought them...<shudder>.
>... > > P.S. When I first saw that Rebol was destined for the Palm I thought
Coool -
> > 'cause I've got one 'em. But I can understand the limitations. Now what
I'm
> > really interested in is how can Rebol work with the Crusoe chip. I
suspect
> > it could make some really nice uses of this chip. Though I'm guessing
that
> > it might be a while yet to see what opportunities open up with it. > > What has to do REBOL with Crusoe chip? REBOL is hosted, so it has to live
upon
> existing OS infrastructure. Once you've got some OS running upon Crusoe
chip
> (which is X86 compatible anyway), you can ask RT to support your OS. Or
you
> thought about Crusou containing REBOL instead of X86 code? :-) Sci-fi :-)
Sorry if I'm saying something you know, but, Crusoe is "compatible" with X86 because the Transmeta software reads the X86 instructions as data. So it is doing a sophisticated hardware-enhanced emulation of X86 codes. My understanding is that this technology is not limited to X86 instructions. Hence yes I was thinking the "sci-fi" idea or something like it. Yes, Rebol is hosted now, which is why I (not very clearly) said it may be a while before the opportunities appeared. Least I made you smile :) Brett.

 [16/17] from: jhagman:infa:abo:fi at: 14-Sep-2000 15:26


Quoting [Petr--Krenzelok--trz--cz] ([Petr--Krenzelok--trz--cz]):
> > .Net is FUD. The are stealing from others. Look at what is amiga > doing with Tao technology .... Much cooler and will win. I pray for > times where good technologies wins over commerce ....
Keep on praying, but historically it seems that good technology is just not enough to make it. Let's think VHS, was that technologically the best format? IBM PC, the best computer? Windows, the best operating system? Intel x86, the best CPU architechture? If we think just the technology none of those were the best but they have shown to be extremely successful as they have had other virtues that were more important for their success. Oh, what a wonderful place world would be if good technology would always win, but that really happens quite seldom. Yours, Jussi -- Jussi Hagman CS in ┼bo Akademi University Studentbyn 4 D 33 [juhagman--abo--fi] 20540 ┼bo [jhagman--infa--abo--fi] Finland

 [17/17] from: news:ted:husted at: 19-Sep-2000 2:10


The better enterprise portals, like those described at REBOL.COM, synch with the PalmOS. It's difficult to imagine something like Rebol/Express actually working in the marketplace without at least a Palm conduit < http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/tools/cdk/ >. If Rebol can't run as an interpreter under the PalmOS stack, perhaps this is the place to start with a native compiler. Basic, C/C++ , and Forth are available now < http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/tools/ >, along with a free GCC compiler Or at least something like Jump < http://hewgill.com/pilot/jump/index.html >. -Ted. -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Custom Software ~ Technical Services. -- Tel 716 425-0252; Fax 716 223-2506. -- http://www.husted.com/

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