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3d and Games

 [1/22] from: aroberts:swri at: 23-Oct-2001 14:04


I thought someone had done some games in Rebol and some 3d work as well. Can anyone recall if this is true and if so where do they exist? Regards, Aaron

 [2/22] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 23-Oct-2001 21:44


----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Roberts" <[aroberts--swri--org]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 9:04 PM Subject: [REBOL] 3d and Games
> I thought someone had done some games in Rebol and some 3d work as well.
Can
> anyone recall if this is true and if so where do they exist?
Rebol does not feature any 3D engine. 3D means - fast. Latest Rebol releases feature at least so called "draw dialect" for arbitrary drawing ... I think there is some basic 3D demo at: http://www.sweb.cz/rebolek/matrix.r , but as I said - don't better dare to think it is textured or something like that :-) Another possibility is to buy /Pro version and link to external native OS libraries, but then you lose multiplatform support. IIRC though, there exist some open source cross platform multimedia libraries ... -pekr-

 [3/22] from: aroberts:swri at: 23-Oct-2001 15:53


True! I'm not looking for a real game in the sense of fast graphics, but more along the lines of say a maze which you could walk through. I thought I remembered seeing a 3d vector demo. Anyone else know of any games, 3d or otherwise? Regards, Aaron Petr Krenzelok wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aaron Roberts" <[aroberts--swri--org]>
<<quoted lines omitted: 26>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
-- Thank you, Aaron Roberts Southwest Research Institute Advanced Simulation Technologies Section (210)-522-5137 www.swri.org

 [4/22] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 23-Oct-2001 14:59


Hey Aaron, Perhaps you heard about some of my work. I was developing a ray casting engine for view. Main problem that stumped me was how to deal with small things like creatures, while maintaining tight casting loops. Here is a version of it running a rather torturous map, a big room with a high ceiling, semi-transparencies, a few simple textures, and some recasts (the crosses).
>> do http://www.sonic.net/~gaia/see/see.r
Using only plain blocks in smaller rooms it runs a whole lot faster. Small rooms and corridors help considerably too. The "fish eye" is correctable by applying some real math. I was planning on making another go of it soon. What were you thinking of doing with it? --Ryan Aaron Roberts wrote:
> I thought someone had done some games in Rebol and some 3d work as well. Can > anyone recall if this is true and if so where do they exist?
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
-- Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst www.iesco-dms.com 707-468-5400

 [5/22] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 23-Oct-2001 15:19


Easily adaptable to single level mazes. --Ryan Aaron Roberts wrote:
> True! I'm not looking for a real game in the sense of fast graphics, but more > along the lines of say a maze which you could walk through. I thought I
<<quoted lines omitted: 51>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
-- Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst www.iesco-dms.com 707-468-5400

 [6/22] from: aroberts:swri at: 23-Oct-2001 17:51


I looked at the script you posted. I didn't get definable shapes though. I did make out the crosses I believe, but otherwise I was confused. I pressed the + to increase the resolution, but it didn't seem to change anything. You obviously know more than I do about Rebol and 3d. My theory was to maybe make a simple 3d demo or game. Thoughts - - Take a square with a texture and rotate it in a circle, then split it into four pieces and seperate them. Nothing really fancy. - Make a game where two people are in a maze and must either get out or find each other (networked would be nice) - Do the above with only one person - Other thoughts as above Are you interested in doing something more? The matrix.r example mentioned previously is about the most graphically intensive. I have seen another 3d demo though, I believe it used spheres though. It was a tad slow, but it was very impressive given what was going on. Regards, Aaron

 [7/22] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 24-Oct-2001 12:38


> >> do http://www.sonic.net/~gaia/see/see.r >
Hi Ryan, I started to get that sea sick feeling like when playing Doom when I tried it out :) -- Graham Chiu

 [8/22] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 23-Oct-2001 17:01


Aaron Roberts wrote:
> I looked at the script you posted. I didn't get definable shapes though. I did make > out the crosses I believe, but otherwise I was confused. I pressed the + to increase > the resolution, but it didn't seem to change anything. >
A couple of things make it funny to look at: 1. You are starting out in the fog experiment, so the lower half of the screen is lightened. 2. A fish eye effect is making everything bent and shrunken at the edges. Correctable with proper mathematics. 3. The when the casting interval is too long it creates a layering effect. +res fixes that, but performances dwindles rapidly. 4. You looking at a very small image blown up 4 to 5 times, so at best it is grainy.
> You obviously know more than I do about Rebol and 3d. My theory was to maybe make a > simple 3d demo or game. Thoughts -
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> - Do the above with only one person > - Other thoughts as above
What you were looking at is a stress test, and a older, slower version at that. A one person maze is very doable, but dont expect textures, they are just too much. Currently expect to be able to do a simple maze with different colored blocks that fade into darkness with distance. I am going to look at it soon to see if creatures can be added, but I dont give it good chances. With creatures (objects really) you can have all kinds of games. I might try another scheme other than ray casting, it would yield much better looking rooms and creatures, but I am not sure if rebol can go quite fast enough to do it. The more I think about it, I might just try that instead of upgrading the ray caster. As far as rotating a square, other method work better for that, ray casting is suited more for complex angles and distances.
> > Are you interested in doing something more? The matrix.r example mentioned > previously is about the most graphically intensive. I have seen another 3d demo > though, I believe it used spheres though. It was a tad slow, but it was very > impressive given what was going on. > > Regards, > Aaron >
As far as anything serious, I would suggest waiting for the 3d library Carl mentioned in the OS News article. While rebol is quite fast for a script language, it hardly touches C for these types of things, and does not access the specialized 3d instructions on modern graphic cards. --Ryan Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst www.iesco-dms.com 707-468-5400

 [9/22] from: cyphre:seznam:cz at: 24-Oct-2001 10:24


Hi, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Roberts" <[aroberts--swri--org]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 10:53 PM Subject: [REBOL] 3d and Games
> Anyone else know of any games, 3d or otherwise? >
I'm currently finishing first beta release of universal arcade game engine in Rebol/View. Although it is not 3D stuff you can have a look at some screenshots(framerates are from some average celeron box at 500MHz or so) of the first demo using this engine: http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/beast.jpg http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/beast1.jpg http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/beast2.jpg BTW, the demo has only about 5kb of code incl. the whole engine and allocates about 1,5 MB of memory while running ;-) regards, Cyphre

 [10/22] from: matt:fitzgerald:bigpond at: 24-Oct-2001 19:04


Does it have Noel Whittakers spiffy music? :-)

 [11/22] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 24-Oct-2001 11:14


Matt Fitzgerald wrote:
> Does it have Noel Whittakers spiffy music? :-)
Not untill sound will be freed from /Pro dependency imo ... -pekr-

 [12/22] from: cyphre:seznam:cz at: 24-Oct-2001 11:23


Unfortunately, no because I haven't bought /pro key yet. I'll wait until RT let's the sound be free(an improve sound cappabilities of Rebol) so no sound support in the engine for now. I'll rather focus on extending the gfx possibilities of the engine... regards, Cyphre

 [13/22] from: aroberts:swri at: 24-Oct-2001 8:54


Thats some pretty exciting screen shots! I'm impressed. I use an Amiga 060 and Windows machines, so I would like to get the most bang for my buck programatically. I can run some simple openGL programs on the Amiga, but when texturing comes up, things really bog down. Since none of my home computers has a 3d gfx card in it, I'm not concerned with doing any graphics intensive work. If you recall something like Bard's Tale and remember the dungeons, thats about as graphic as I am thinking. It seems as though Rebol has been used for mostly serious stuff, as opposed to games and so forth. Anyone know of a site which has a Rebol games area? Card, 3d, demo/game, etc? Regards, Aaron

 [14/22] from: robert:muench:robertmuench at: 24-Oct-2001 17:36


> -----Original Message----- > From: [rebol-bounce--rebol--com] [mailto:[rebol-bounce--rebol--com]]On Behalf Of
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> I'm currently finishing first beta release of universal arcade game engine > in Rebol/View.
Hi, this looks cool! Is it available to have a look at it, or will you release it as first beta? Robert

 [15/22] from: media:quazart at: 24-Oct-2001 11:46


wow man... is that Shadow of the Beast I'm looking at !!?!?!? brings back some memories -MAx

 [16/22] from: cyphre:seznam:cz at: 24-Oct-2001 18:08


Hello Robert, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert M. Muench" <[robert--muench--robertmuench--de]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 5:36 PM Subject: [REBOL] Re: 3d and Games
> > I'm currently finishing first beta release of universal arcade game
engine
> > in Rebol/View. > > Hi, this looks cool! Is it available to have a look at it, or will you
release
> it as first beta? Robert >
The engine is working well, but I want to add some more features(and playability into the game demo) before first beta release. I hope it will be as soon as I'll have some free time to continue on that project. Please be patient and watch my announcement on the list. regards Cyphre

 [17/22] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 24-Oct-2001 10:27


Very cool stuff Cyphre!! --Gregg

 [18/22] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 24-Oct-2001 10:43


Hi Aaron, << Anyone know of a site which has a Rebol games area? Card, 3d, demo/game, etc? >> There are a few games out there on reb sites: Rebtris, Rebox, Gomoku. There are also some drag-drop examples using cards. I have an ever-gowing list of things I want to do with REBOL, and there are some classic games among them. --Gregg

 [19/22] from: aroberts:swri at: 24-Oct-2001 13:48


Howdy all! Thanks for all the input on 3d rebol apps. I finnally located the 3d vector demo I had seen. Go to DocKimbel's site and view the 3d Vector Ball demo. Its really fantastic! Regards, Aaron R>

 [20/22] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 24-Oct-2001 12:31


Ah, very impressive looking stuff Cyphre. Good idea picking out the side view orientation--much easier to deal with. --Ryan Cyphre wrote:
> Hi, > ----- Original Message -----
<<quoted lines omitted: 23>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
-- Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst www.iesco-dms.com 707-468-5400

 [21/22] from: cyphre:seznam:cz at: 25-Oct-2001 10:27


Hello Ryan, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Cole" <[ryanc--iesco-dms--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 9:31 PM Subject: [REBOL] Re: 3d and Games
> Ah, very impressive looking stuff Cyphre. Good idea picking out the side
view
> orientation--much easier to deal with. >
Thanks. This engine is not restricted only for side-view type. You can also make top-down view style (shoot'em ups, strategy, sport etc.) or (in future versions) pseudo 3D (isometric view based) games or even maps, orientation-systems and many others... regards Cyphre

 [22/22] from: rebolek:seznam:cz at: 25-Oct-2001 1:33


Hello, 3d demo (I think I won't make game out of this) and simple shoot 'em up (unfinished - only one hard level) are on my reb - sites/rebolek. You may find some new button styles for VID there (or may not coz I may not succeed when uploading - thanks to CzechTelecom) - they are not as nice as Oldes' capsules but they are just Rebol code - no pictures needed.

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