Rebol programs
[1/15] from: sunandadh::aol::com at: 19-Mar-2002 10:59
[riusa--email--it] :
> does anybody know someone who created (single persons or companies)
> heavy programs in Rebol? For heavy programs I intend big programs, not
> small utilities/games like mines, some email readers, etc...
How big is big? I'm a single person and I've developed two stand-alone
applications for non-profit organizations. One is 6,000 lines. The other is
4,000, but likely to double in size if I ever get round to implementing the
second half.
I count lines of code as being any non-blank, non-comment line that contains
something other than a square bracket, so, by my count, the code below is six
lines:
;; ==============================
Normalise-url: func [url-in]
;; ==============================
;; -------------------------------
;; Ensures URL starts with default
;; protocol and server name
;; -------------------------------
;; Dev notes: need to extend to add
;; default server if absolute URL
;; format -- will need server as
;; input parameter.
[
if (copy/part url-in 7) = "http://"
[return url-in]
if (copy/part url-in 4) = "www."
[return join "http://" url-in]
return join "http://www." url-in
] ;; end func
My total income from Rebol-related activities to date is about USD100. So
it's not a big money-spinner for me.
Sunanda.
[2/15] from: gerardcote:sympatico:ca at: 19-Mar-2002 10:15
Hello,
>I wish to create (or to see an existing one) a site visible totally
>with Rebol. I think it could demonstrate the power of this system.
>I'm not talking about IOS, but a freeware application, an
>application ".r" not a ".exe" (executable) application like IOS.
If this can be of some help to someone, in my current REBOL learning quest,
I have decided to begin studying the internals of the Vanilla Application
which deserves the Vanilla web site.
As far as I know, this app is written entirely in REBOL (.r) and this is not
a trivial one.
Furthermore this could be the kind of show off you look for : a complete
REBOL driven app. doing its GUI looking face with the help of a browser
instead of its native /VIEW face.
May be you can convert it to do the same with the /VIEW face instead of its
original one. And while you are at it, you could simplify the "snip" writing
and linking process so that it follows up to lesser extent the HTML coding
and tends more to look like the make-doc-pro text creation process (or a
similar wiki Clone process if you prefer).
What do you think about it ? This last point is what I want to do with some
time involved but I don't plan to use the /VIEW face at first. I prefer to
keep the HTML way of doing thing for the moment.
Hope it will be useful for you too to study this app. may be just to get
started and get an idea for what to show off ...
Gerard
[3/15] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 19-Mar-2002 10:31
<< does anybody know someone who created (single persons or companies)
heavy programs in Rebol? For heavy programs I intend big programs, not
small utilities/games like mines, some email readers, etc... >>
Well, RT says that REBOL is intended for programming "in the small". I know
Maarten has mentioned that they've built a substantial system with it (16
KLOC I think he said) but wouldn't it be better to compare systems based on
functionality, rather than the amount of code required? Less code is better,
right? :)
I'm workingon a project now that lets users access remote hardware, view and
pull data from those devices, and graphically annotate the data (for
collaboration via IOS). It uses Rugby and pdf-maker, but the main server
piece is only about 200 lines and the main app itself is only about 1,000.
Hardly "heavy", but very funtional.
<< Another question: why "www.rebol.com" has not a full-featured site
built using rebol interface? I can use Rebol only for some specific
operations! >>
What about the View Desktop?
--Gregg
[4/15] from: christophe:coussement:mil:be at: 19-Mar-2002 14:25
> does anybody know someone who created (single persons or companies)
> heavy programs in Rebol? For heavy programs I intend big programs, not
> small utilities/games like mines, some email readers, etc...
[Coussement Christophe] I'm not sure of your definition of "big",
but I think
we did ;-) We are a big "company" (Belgian Armed Forces) and we
created
a "big" psychotechnical assessment system of about 100,000 LOC,
which has been used by more than 8000 applicants and generated
more than 3,500,000 millions rows of data.
Hope this information helps !
==christophe
[5/15] from: riusa:email:it at: 19-Mar-2002 11:31
Hi all,
does anybody know someone who created (single persons or companies)
heavy programs in Rebol? For heavy programs I intend big programs, not
small utilities/games like mines, some email readers, etc...
Another question: why "www.rebol.com" has not a full-featured site
built using rebol interface? I can use Rebol only for some specific
operations!
I wish to create (or to see an existing one) a site visible totally
with Rebol. I think it could demonstrate the power of this system.
I'm not talking about IOS, but a freeware application, an
application ".r" not a ".exe" (executable) application like IOS.
What do you about this?
--
Prendi GRATIS l'email universale che... risparmia: http://www.email.it/f
Sponsor:
Con 62 Euro ti diamo la stampante Lexmark Color JetPrinter Z22
...e anche la QuickCam Logitech! Incredibile offerta!
Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=363&d=19-3
[6/15] from: chalz:earthlink at: 20-Mar-2002 0:19
> << Another question: why "www.rebol.com" has not a full-featured site
> built using rebol interface? I can use Rebol only for some specific
> operations! >>
>
> What about the View Desktop?
I missed the original post somewhere, so I'm quoting from Greg's post.
I once asked [feedback--rebol--com] why they were using Perl scripts instead of
REBOL for things such as searching the site. The response was that the site
host, at the time, didn't allow them full access to the site and didn't want
them running "unverified" EXE's, so they had to make do with Perl. This was a
while back, though. *shrugs*
[7/15] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 20-Mar-2002 1:27
From: <[riusa--email--it]> wrote
>Another question: why "www.rebol.com" has not a full-featured site
>built using rebol interface? I can use Rebol only for some specific
>operations!
I totally agree...go figure::: it's a lame shame + yes makes very little
[bizness] sense.
But then most mad geniuses are like that..
I've met top top graphic designer's who don't have business cards, or web
designers who are too busy to do their own sites. Too many great ideas too
little time for the daily stuff.
>I wish to create (or to see an existing one) a site visible totally
>with Rebol. I think it could demonstrate the power of this system.
If you want to see [and demonstrate] an elegant rebol application and Websites
built 100% with rebol then check out Vanilla!
http://www.langreiter.com/space/start
http://www.langreiter.com/space/vanilla-documentation
100% Rebol scripts [served by Apache]. Presumably Apache could be replaced by
REBOL web server, but that may not be worth it.
For skilled Rebol programmers vanilla is formidable tool. Easy to modify.. lots
of cool potential there especially when linked to client-side rebol p2p,
/Viewlets, Graphics, Flash etc.
I am working right now on a new collaborative netart site based on Vanilla.
./Jason
[8/15] from: bobr:resume:dprc at: 21-Mar-2002 11:09
Charles wrote:
> I missed the original post somewhere, so I'm quoting from Greg's post.
for those who missed it,
the original post follows my reply.
I have written quite a few heavy programs. I do not count lines.
I call each an application to differentiate it from a utility.
rebol as my solution foundation
Sometimes the application is actually several rebol scripts
which cooperate but run at different times or only when certain events
happen.
For example a rebol based CGI runs when the page is fetched,
another when the form completes and another later when cron must
do hourly processing and still another when distribution
to mirror sites is complete.
I could, in several cases, have built one monolithic script
which is re-called for each of these events but that is not my style.
If refactoring yields some common code then I can use 'do or 'include
to advantage. I add to that with 'default so that I can unit-test.
I simultaneously build up from the bottom (with small unit tested utils)
and down from the top for these major applications.
'include and 'default are add-ons refined with help from others here.
Applications built this way that I am allowed to talk about:
a router reprogrammer,
several newsfeed handlers
and a website 'enlivener'.
The first one goes out and collects data about equipment connected to
a certain model of router used for remote support. It reprograms the
router
if the support team needs to add equipment and make it NAT reachable.
Its an embedded application which cannot make use of rebol/view.
It knows how to self-update if the home site publishes revisions.
The enlivener application runs for every page on a website
and replaces sample values with live data much like xml promises to do.
It has the advantage of not requiring a format change to xml when
upper management at the bank approves a page layout alteration.
It replaces perl and mod-perl for performance with a lower cost
of maintenance.
The web design company does not have to send me xml,
they upload static pages as templates right to QA.
QA sees a live page with real data.
If QA approves the change, the same engine
is also used in production as well.
In this final phase the names of web sites in URL references change
to get images from some image server (like akamai) based on
rules the bank laid out months ago. Same with nav links
that would normally point to the design company server or
to QA servers.
I did not do the whole site with rebol functioning as the server itself
because it had to cooperate with other legacy apps already there.
I did not have the luxury of rebol/command at the time.
[riusa--email--it]
wrote:
[9/15] from: rebol:optushome:au at: 22-Mar-2002 6:42
> I totally agree...go figure::: it's a lame shame + yes makes very little
> [bizness] sense.
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> >I wish to create (or to see an existing one) a site visible totally
> >with Rebol. I think it could demonstrate the power of this system.
The site is built by REBOL. It is published and uploaded by site building
scripts which produce the static HTML. Some of the old site building scripts
should still be floating around in the libraries.
Cheers,
Allen K
[10/15] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 21-Mar-2002 23:56
Allen Kamp
<[rebol--optushome--com--au]> wrote:
> The site is built by REBOL. It is published and uploaded by site building
> scripts which produce the static HTML. Some of the old site building scripts
> should still be floating around in the libraries.
aha..
Love to hear more about it...
Is it written up anywhere?
Do you know why there is no obvious "about this site" description with links to
the rebol scripts?
Any reason the pages are static? Not necessarily bad, just very curious and
rather baffled.
cheers
./Jason
[11/15] from: al:bri:xtra at: 22-Mar-2002 19:02
> > >I wish to create (or to see an existing one) a site visible totally
> > >with Rebol. I think it could demonstrate the power of this system.
>
> The site is built by REBOL.
My site is built in my eText dialect and interpreted by my eText, HTML and
Site Rebol dialect scripts. But then I cheat and use a free FTP program to
get it to my site provider. :( That's 'cause I haven't yet worked out how a
Rebol equivalent of the make program and to only update as needed.
Andrew Martin
ICQ: 26227169 http://valley.150m.com/
[12/15] from: riusa:email:it at: 22-Mar-2002 8:56
If I understood well, Vanilla was built with CGI in Rebol. But Rebol is
not only a CGI language, but has much power in network protocol
management, GUI system, etc...
CGI can be built with a lot of languages (I write in Python, which is a
very good language for CGI programs...) but I think the power of Rebol
was in a very small client program that someone can download (small
like an HTML file, like a Macromedia Flash file), has a good GUI system
(always very few bytes!), I can create client programs which directly
use HTTP, FTP, TCP/IP, etc... with very few lines of program. Further
more, Rebol interpreter (when it will become even a plug-in? Like a
Macromedia Flash player?!) is very small (think about Python (big!),
think about Java runtime machine (big!)).
--
Prendi GRATIS l'email universale che... risparmia: http://www.email.it/f
Sponsor:
VolaSMS, il software pi=F9 completo per inviare e ricevere SMS dal tuo PC
Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=276&d=22-3
[13/15] from: riusa:email:it at: 22-Mar-2002 9:37
I'm very happy to see many people create programs bigger than a tic-tac-
toe! This is important for me, since more people/companies use Rebol
for professional applications and more are the chance for Rebol to
impose itself in the market.
=======================================================
> Charles wrote:
> > I missed the original post somewhere, so I'm quoting from Greg's
post.
> for those who missed it,
> the original post follows my reply.
<<quoted lines omitted: 8>>
> do hourly processing and still another when distribution
> to mirror sites is complete.
--
Prendi GRATIS l'email universale che... risparmia: http://www.email.it/f
Sponsor:
Il modo pi=F9 semplice e conveniente per mandare bouquet e composizioni floreali in tutta
Italia.
Rapporto personalizzato con il Tuo fiorista, ad i prezzi pi=F9 bassi del Web.
La qualit=E0 =E8 garantita!
Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=367&d=22-3
[14/15] from: rebol:optushome:au at: 22-Mar-2002 20:58
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Cunliffe" <[jason--cunliffe--verizon--net]>
To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:56 PM
Subject: [REBOL] Re: Rebol programs
> "Allen Kamp" <[rebol--optushome--com--au]> wrote:
>
> > The site is built by REBOL. It is published and uploaded by site
building
> > scripts which produce the static HTML. Some of the old site building
scripts
> > should still be floating around in the libraries.
>
> aha..
> Love to hear more about it...
> Is it written up anywhere?
> Do you know why there is no obvious "about this site" description with
links to
> the rebol scripts?
> Any reason the pages are static? Not necessarily bad, just very curious
and
> rather baffled.
>
> cheers
> ./Jason
I'm sure Carl probably has a later version by now, but here is the old one
http://www.rebol.com/cgi-bin/fcs/fcp.pl?words=site+builder&d=/library/html/b
uild-site.html
Also of interest in how REBOL is used daily by Carl & RT.
http://www.rebolforces.com/zine/rzine-1-01.html#sect8.
Cheers,
Allen K
[15/15] from: brett:codeconscious at: 22-Mar-2002 22:51
Hi Andrew,
> My site is built in my eText dialect and interpreted by my eText, HTML and
> Site Rebol dialect scripts. But then I cheat and use a free FTP program to
> get it to my site provider. :( That's 'cause I haven't yet worked out how
a
> Rebol equivalent of the make program and to only update as needed.
I've uploaded to my website the script that handles the FTP upload for
codeconscious.com. See the section called "How these pages were
created" on the following page.
http://www.codeconscious.com/rebol/rebol-scripts.html
To generate my site I use a slightly modified version of the
text-to-html program that Carl made before make-doc for all the content
on codeconscious.com. I have a build-site script that recursively
travels through a source directory and emits a mirror structure but of
web pages. Along the way it detabs rebol scripts and edits the html
pages generated from the modified make-spec program to include buttons
etc.
Finally a site upload scripts uploads via FTP any changed HTML pages.
It simplisticly determines a change from the size of the file which is
not guaranteed but the site admin (me) is watching. A checksum would be
better.
So making a change on my site involves (1) edit text file (2)
build-site (3) site upload. A single change takes well under a minute.
This simplistic scheme has proved remarkably flexible and easy to deal
with. It is getting a bit old and creaky now, and I know that I could
produce a neater set of scripts but, hey, it works.
Regards,
Brett.
Notes
- Quoted lines have been omitted from some messages.
View the message alone to see the lines that have been omitted