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From: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 21-Sep-2000 9:56

Mark, I agree that REBOL is doing a great job, greater than great even. I also think we should help ourselves as much as possible allowing REBOL to focus on thier work. I think your REMACS idea deserves merit as well. But I do not think an open source version of REBOL is healthy at this time. Not only does it increase fragmentation in the language, already a minor issue, yet so far necessary, it opens REBOL up to snooping from software competitors. At REBOL's early stage this would be dangerous. For this reason I will not contribute to this project and also will recommend others not to do so. :^( Plus, who wants to program in C anyways, yuck! --Ryan PS: I dont know how, but I think they must be putting an addictive substance in the language somewhere. [edinburgh--veitchi--co--uk] wrote:
> REALLY DISCOVER THE POWER OF REBOL > > I have been learning, using & experimenting with REBOL for about > 18 months now and I'm sure like many others on this List am very > excited about REBOL, it's power & it's prospects. > > As I once read somewhere, REBOL is the cocaine of scripting languages, > it is highly addictive & you just have to get more!. > > Various interesting issues frequently crop up on this list, for example, > aspects of a particular REBOL behaviour or feature, suspected bugs / > problems, > future developments, wish lists, feature requests etc. > > Another great feature of the REBOL community is sharing of knowledge, > experience, help, advice & generally friendly nature of comments > & debates. All those who regularly feature on the list participate > willingly & constructively, which is also great. > > Carl & all the rest of the REBOL Crew are also doing great work, > producing quality products as well as finding time to contribute > to the various lists, to explain, to announce, to clarify & even > to disagree as appropriate. > > What is not so great is the frustrations which surface on the list > from time to time. Feature's not yet implemented, Which Products > should be given priority /Core /View /Command /Express etc, > Documentation or the sufficient lack of, Late Release dates, > Persisting bugs, Platforms supported, Rebols future direction or needs. > > First of all as I previously stated Carl & Rebol Co. are doing a great > job developing the language, products, documentation, communicating to > lists, organising & running Rebol Technologies to provide us with > REBOL as we've come to know and love. > > Are we happy with their contribution - YES Indeed!, can we expect them > to do more - NO!, they're doing their very best to juggle the conflicting > demands & successfully keep all the balls in the air & keep everyone happy. > > Should we be content & just accept the situation as things are, > afterall the REBOL people are doing their best, REBOL's available for > free, should we be happy with what we've got, we can't reasonably > demand anymore. > > Not necessarily so, WE CAN HELP OURSELVES! > > If we really want to understand the internals of REBOL, if we really > want the language to develop as we would wish & not at the behest of > a Corporate Management or Marketing Department, WE CAN HELP OURSELVES! > > This is my main point of what is becoming a very long post indeed. > > The finite resources & corporate demands on REBOL TECHNOLOGIES inc. > are the biggest bottleneck to the future direction & speed of development > of REBOL, as a language & technology. > > Third Party Developers is where the real growth of REBOL or any software > technology comes from, and right now the biggest Third Party is US, >, the users list! > > Now to the meat of my suggested solutions, two projects, organised > & run by us, the people on the REBOL lists, developed & discussed > either here or at some other friendly host like . > > Project 1 - OSCAR > > OSCAR Open Source Code Aka Rebol > OSCAR Open Source Code Attempted Rebol > OSCAR Open Source Code Acts-like Rebol > OSCAR Open Source Code Adheres-to Rebol > OSCAR Open Source Code Assimilates Rebol > > Pet-Name ( Alternative ? ) > > CARLS CARL Sassenrath's Advanced Rebol Language System > > >From the OSCAR name above, you might have guessed the proposal > is for those of us language buffs sufficiently intrigued by the > internal workings of REBOL is to develop our own REBOL Interpreter. > > WHY ? > > 1. To further our understanding of REBOL's inner workings. > 2. To experiment ourselves with various implementation features. > 3. To provide a REBOL for use on DEBIAN & free software systems. > 4. To ensure the protection of REBOL language from corporate control > or abuse or neglect, i.e. The AMIGA fiasco's / sad stories. > 5. For the fun of it!. > > Carl stated in the past on of the reasons REBOL would not be opened > sourced until much later would be to prevent fragmentation. > This would be the prime directive of OSCAR if it goes ahead, > All official user releases must look like REBOL, smell like REBOL & > for all intents & purposes mimic REBOL behaviour as best as possible. > > This need not deter experimentation, if fact useful new development > features could be sent to for consideration & possible > inclusion in official REBOL releases, however that is much later > in the game. > > Firstly those of us interested enough need to harness our knowledge > skills & expertise of compiled programming languages like ANSI C > or Modula-2 / Pascal or SCHEME etc to discuss & develop an interpreter > for a small subset of REBOL/Core, probably the natives!, datatypes! > & operators! from which everything else is built upon. > > However I digress, those sort of discussions are for the OSCAR project > to decide, the purpose here is to stimulate opinion, enthusiasm, critique > & hopefully momentum for such a project. > > Project 2 - REEMACS > > REEMACS Rebol Extensible Environment MACroS > REEMACS Rebol Engineered EMACS > REEMACS Rebol Engineered Environment Makes Advanced Computing Simple > > As the name suggests the intention here is to create an advanced extensible > editor & environment written entirely in REBOL built on a REBOL interpreter. > View GUI versions & Command versions could be developed later. > > REEMACS would be an advanced editor & environment extensible with REBOL > functions, macros & scripts, in the spirit of Richard Stallman's GNU EMACS > but bettered by applying REBOL human-centric principals & features including > a more intuitive & easy to use interface whilst retaining all the power & > flexibility that REBOL provides. > > In short REEMACS would be a state of the art Editor / Environment for the > 21st Century including; > > * Advanced Text Editing & Formatting > * File & Directory Control > * Diary & Calendaring > * Email & FTP > * Language Syntax Highlighting > * Documentation & Help > * Everything else not yet thought of....... > > As above the intention here is to stimulate interest & discussion about > a REEMACS project and call to arms for those REBOL Coders looking to > show off their REBOL skills on a project that can harness & collate the > combined skills & scripts of the REBOL Community to provide a generally > useful REBOL Utility. > > There is no reason for REEMACS not to collaborate with other on going > projects such as REBMAIL to produce a world class REBOL application. > > So there you have it OSCAR & REEMACS, they are my suggestions, now > Iam looking for your responses. > > I would be obliged if all comments & discussion could be kept to this > list & all replies sent to [list--rebol--com] and not to me personally. > > All the best, > > Mark Dickson
-- Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst 707-468-5400 We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. --Buddha