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[REBOL] Re: Flames, hype, offended vanity

From: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 22-Feb-2002 11:50

Hi oh dear!.. I know nothing about what is really going on offlist, or what the'backstory' is here, but clearly any initiatives to encourage Rebol development are a good idea, yet something has gone wrong here. The visible Rebol community is still very small, and all those with the most skill appear to very busy already building "real-world demos" [ie applications, toolkits, etc]. Look at this mailing list and ALL the existing REBOl sites. My impressionis that there is some serious work being done, but with little visible change recently in sites or presentation efforts. This includes RT own site. This is hard fact of REBOL's condition at the moment, and presumably part of your motivation. I interpret this lack of 'action' as not decay/death, but like trees/plants in this season when they are building up energy to burst into spring greenery. So I would not be surprised if there is very little response at this point in time to any REBOL/Demo project, whoever puts their name on it. It strikes me that your timing is interesting but perhaps a little cruel. Hopefully there are some ways to heal wounds and channel your effort. My suggestions: 1. Don't call it a "competition" We are all already competing against the odds of time, money, documentation, skill, M$.NET etc. Instead just set up a great site focused on fostering the kind of demos you do not find elsewhere in REBOL-topia. If there is another similar initiative either merge them or clarify the differences. I don't think deadline wor in REBOL community well. Just keep it open.. keep it going 2. Ask What would really help people [busy people and newbies] to create adn contribute to cool REBOL/Demos? Examples, ideas, documentation, motivation??? Lack of documentation for /View is a major obstable for everyone. The knowledge is improving thanks to this list but I doubt anyone is satisfied. Any ideas? 3. Why REBOL? What's it really good for..? With respect to game/graphic demos I have a very hard time understanding why anyone would use REBOL/View for any gaming or graphics intensive applications. imho, it is just to damn !@#$ primitive even though it has some cool features and the language itself is great. Reminds me of late 20th century Amiga. Flash5/6 seem like the obvious choice right now. Please tell me I am wrong and why. 4. Show us something Please! The url you posted returns "404 Stránka nenalezena" . What's up? 5. Prepare a Review I have seen a few very nice things on Rbolsites, but hard to find them again. Perhaps you can provide us a fresh guide to what is already 'cool' in your terms and sugest where to go. Make a REBOL/Demo map ..including new lands to discover ~~~~~ So you do net get wrong impression, I am happily addicted to REBOLand having much fun learning it. I should also say that I recently started working on a new group/net art project which uses rebol/vanilla/rugby/html/flash. The main reason for choosing REBOL is sweet simplicity and cross-platform network features. View is only good for simplest things-basic user interface. The rest is all background REBOL combined with other tools when it needs them [Python/PIL, ImageMagick probably]. I am hoping to use Oldes wonderful %make-swf.r. combnied with extensions to Vanilla for special image and flash handling. A real need I have right now is for an advanced image browsing tool on client desktop which can prepare thumbnail image conversions, generate and sotre lists and sequences, add metadata and then upload via FTP [preferably SSH2 file transfer] into Vanilla site where it creates snips automatically. All quite doable. The pieces are everywhere. But making a smooth integrated tool in REBOL/View is still frustrating [resizing smoothly is a bitch, and no binary clipboard copying yet :-((]. I am hope these problems will be solved soon, but limiting obstacle for many applications now. ~~~~~ best wishes ./Jason