AltME groups: search

you can look into Other section - that can be good reminder into 
ports, schemes, devices and low level event system - http://rebol.net/wiki/Table_Of_Contents

http://rebol.net/wiki/Event_System

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_%28programming_language%29

No, it's Position Independent Code: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Position-independent_code

Maybe there is no original screenshot and I remember it wrong, but 
the kernel exists and you can test it. It's Linux 0.00 and the major 
feature is switching between two tasks that print A and B in the 
console:

http://gunkies.org/wiki/Linux_0.00

Brian: I was wrong for OS X, it uses UTF-16 internally according 
to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-16

You can find the codepoints you need here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unicode_characters

In a near future we can hope to program our own NAO robot with Red, 
isn't it ? http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nao_%28robotique%29 or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nao_%28robot%29

I've cleaned up the open tickets today and created a wish list page 
in the project's wiki on github.

I agree that we should have only _one_ convention, else it will quickly 
become a nightmare when having to integrate 3rd-party code. We need 
to find some objective reasons for choosing it. 


For Red, I'm inclined to continue on the one-based convention that 
worked pretty well in R2 for many years (at least for me). I'm not 
very fond of the change in R3, introducing 0-based convention implicitly, 
it solves one problem (iterating over 0 index...I don't remember 
ever doing that), but introduces new ones (negative indexes point 
now to an IMHO, counter-intuitive position which will most probably 
lead to programming errors). For now, I prefer to stick to R2 way, 
until  we find a better solution (feel free to propose some on related 
github tickets or here). For example, we could decide to ban indexes 
<= 0 (not my favorite personal option though, but would solve simply 
the problem).


For Red/System, a 0-based convention might make more sense, but it 
would push us into the R3 issue I've mentioned above wrt indexes 
<= 0. Also, as a dialect of Red, it can use whatever convention best 
fits its purpose, but OTOH, having the same convention as Red would 
help. So, I'm really undecided for Red/System.


I think the whole issue boils down to decide about PICK behavior 
with <= 0 indexes, everything else should be able to fit in easily 
once that preliminary question is solved. It would be helpful if 
someone could put up everything related to this topic on a wiki page 
with all arguments sorted (there's a lot of them in R3 group posted 
a few weeks ago).

Default base index in programming languages: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages_%28array%29#Array%5Fsystem%5Fcross-reference%5Flist


Notable languages with 1-based indexing: FORTRAN, Lua, Mathematica, 
MATLAB, Smalltalk.

That design note would make a great doc entry somewhere. Is there 
a Red wiki where we can stash these things, or what would be the 
preferred method at this point?

Steeve - could you outline then, how would you change gobs in some 
other channel or wiki document. I e.g. don't want to support GTK 
or other bloatware yet, so it might be that I might sponsor View 
engine port, of course, being done eventually right. Gobs are definitely 
more optimised than Faces were though ...

Ah, so you volunteer for editing the wiki :-)

Possible to port Red to RISC OS too? Or a lot of work too %Y\ ?

I could contribute to the wiki (which one are we talking about here?) 

Now I have my 10x10 checkers game in Version 1.0.0 released I have 
some time to spend on the script Doc asked for. Can the specifications 
be reposted please?

Arnold, I'm talking about the RPi wiki I linked above

Docs are always a hard question. I have always appreciated the docs 
that Carl and others spent time and care creating; the old Core manual 
appeals to me. Wikis are good for many things, though I seem to lose 
or confuse wiki logins more than other accounts, and their presentation 
rarely impresses me. It's an easy way to make things open for contributions 
though.

Of course, I prefer REBOL data, with makedoc being my preferred markup 
format. I don't know if Carl's WIP wiki is worth asking about, or 
another wiki engine or site would not lock us in too much. Some of 
us did some work on a wikimedia interface for R3 docs, which didn't 
get far. And I have a wikidot site we can play with if people want.

also the help system can be sent to a wiki

About the tooling, a wiki approach + makedoc format makes sense to 
me.

yes, the R3 reference is functional for this. Initially it fills 
the skeleton parts that contain the same information as help, but 
it works like a wiki, where each page can be filled with examples. 
I think comments were planned as well, but that never came about.

I don't know how it stands up to "modern" standars wrt interactive 
documentation, but I know that Gigaspaces won some kind of award 
for the organization/presentation of their developer documentation 
- this was a few years ago when I was investigating the technology.


http://wiki.gigaspaces.com/wiki/display/XAP91/XAP+9.1+Documentation+Home

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compare-and-swap

With the implementation of a random function on Red/System I have 
some questions:

#DEFINE seems to become obsolete towards version 2, no preprocessor 
anymore, so any progress on a decision? https://github.com/dockimbel/Red/wiki/Alternatives-to-Red-System-pre-processor-%23define


How are you supposed to implement an array, I can figure out some 
things about using a pointer, but I cannot believe it will work with 
the example value of 40000000h 

http://static.red-lang.org/red-system-specs.html#section-4.8(.3)

I do not have a clue if this is a realistic value as a memory-address, 
that is why a simple array could come in handy.


At this moment I will not worry about support of a L(ong) or 64 bit 
type, I'll work with 32 bits for now.

#DEFINE seems to become obsolete towards version 2, no preprocessor 
anymore, so any progress on a decision?


It is not the time for taking decision about Red/System v2. For the 
preprocessor replacement, we are for now just gathering ideas in 
the wiki.

We just finished to setup a public Cofluence wiki test server, where 
TreeMapper models are rendered in HTML-5. Take a look here:


http://s1.saphirion.com:8001/display/TREEM/Treemapper+Demonstration+on+Conluence


That's a model that's done with the R3 based editor and published 
out of the editor directly into a wiki page. The next demo version 
will include the server information so you can test it on your own.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/REBOL_Programmingnow it's a good guide 
on Rebol: what do you think?

I just finished the full Rebol disctionary on: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/REBOL_Programming/Dictionary
there you can find also the source of the functions. 

It's a public wiki, you can add examples, correct bugs, add topics: 
you are welcome!

I have just created http://rebol.informe.com/portal.html, there 
is a forum, a wiki, a blog and a gallery. Do you think it can be 
the rebol community portal?

Floring, we are already full of this kind of pages: 
http://www.rebol.net/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.rebol.com/docs.html
I suggest you to contribute to the REBOL Wiki.

However, if you prefer doing something else you are always welcome.

Hello, now http://rebol.informe.com/portal.htmlworks weel, I''m 
including all Rebol wiki around the web in it. So with just one account, 
you can:
- improve wiki
-discuss of rebol on forum
- upload images on Gallery
-... and much more
Take a look and try...

Hello, now on http://rebol.informe.comthere is a wiki containing 
Rebol 2 and Rebol 3 (GitHub) wikis. You are welcome to contribute! 
If you are curious on  in the forum you'll find the scripts to upload 
automatically all words descriptions in a wiki.

Rebol3 is dead, long live to Rebol3Bazaar


I've been quiet for a long while, and this blog is not easy for me 
to write.

I'm sitting here with a glass of 2013 Ferrarelle mineral water of 
the glass bottle... hoping to be inspired on how to write this...
No, bad introduction...

You know that Rebol is a fantastic programming language, but its 
development was discontinued and bad supported. A lot of people when 
encounter Rebol falls in love for its simplicity, a blend of theory, 
experimentation, and invention, the language embodies elegant and 
wonderful concepts and properties. It was and is the most productive 
language I've ever used. I hope your experience has been similar.


Unfortunately a lot of bad events are leading Rebol to a no through 
road:

- no direction of the new Rebol3
- no a central site open for discussion
- no updates on Rebol 3 source (well, just one every month)
- to many sites about Rebol and with no updates from years


These and other reasons forced me to create http://rebol.informe.com/portal.html
a public forum, with a public wiki and a blog, where everybody can 
contribute. The result is just 17 users, this means that Rebol is 
dying; the cathedral way of Rebol 3  development is not working.

So I'm forced by my love for Rebol to create a new GitHub repository: 
Rebol 3 Bazaar, it's a Rebol 3 source, with graphic working (VID, 
but just on windows at the moment); I promise you:


- pull requests and issues discussed and merged in 24 hours (or max 
a week)
- open to add people to its organiziation
- always update!
- link:  https://github.com/angerangel/r3bazaar


If you like to contribute write me, use GitHub or Rebol portal; you 
don't need to be a programmer, think about a new logo, contribute 
the wiki.

If you know REBOLers who might be interested in this discussion, 
please let them know about this blog posting. I look forward to hearing 
from you,
-Max

I upgraded the Fossil server for the Red bindings to the new version 
1.25. There are some nice new features in it:

http://www.fossil-scm.org/download.html

They also have a new short introduction guide:


http://www.fossil-scm.org/index.html/doc/trunk/www/fiveminutes.wiki

The R2/Forward project has been moved to Github, including an import 
of the DevBase change history by Andreas.
Go here: https://github.com/BrianHawley/r2-forward


No issues or wiki yet, and it needs a lot of work. Still, it's a 
start! Discuss stuff in !REBOL2 here until we have something better. 
I have some improvements to make right away, not the least of which 
is making sure that the license is compatible with R3 and Red.

Hello, I started a wiki about only the Rebol 3 source: https://github.com/angerangel/r3bazaar/wiki/Source-explained
, may you help me? ;-)

Someone else will have to provide the tutorial links. The parse project 
is here: http://www.rebol.net/wiki/Parse_Projec

Sorry, http://www.rebol.net/wiki/Parse_Project

@ ENDO: I think that error is something related to RebGUI . However 
it's no so easy to create. If you have suggestions to eliminate it, 
I'm here.

@Arnold: there is a rebol editor with syntax hilghting, it's http://trac.assembla.com/shadwolforge/wiki
, I think to incorporete it someway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Software_License

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_and_open-source_software_licenses

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_programming_languages
there are many w/ GPL

This whole issue has seen a wealth of debate in the past:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL#Linking_and_derived_works

There are also differences between GPL1,2 and 3 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License

OK, I think that you are welcome to register, login and add the description 
you prefer. It's a wiki, not an hand made Bible. ;-)

On Rebol.net I read about http://www.rebol.net/wiki:  REBOL DocBase 
(old Wiki), so people are discouraged to use it.

Massimiliano, does your wiki support different translations of the 
same page ?

@Giuseppe,: No, wiki software is mediawiki, to have a good support 
 multilanguage you have to install a mediawiki for every language. 
I just adopted http://www.informe.comfree solution ready to use; 
and I haven't many option as superuser. However creating and importing 
pages is easy. If you have already a wiki, export pages in a XML 
file, and I'll import the pages.

Regarding the "portal", I fear I have to agree with sqlab so far. 
The approach of just wholesale copying in or duplicating information 
from other primary sources strikes me as particularly bad. 

For example:
http://rebol.informe.com/wiki/view/REBOL_2_Guide

This just copies over the "REBOL Programming" wikibook:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/REBOL_Programming


However, it does so, without _any_ attribution at all, giving people 
no hint where as to the primary source for that information. Second, 
it is a one-off import which is not being kept up to date, so really 
just muddies the information out there. For example, Ladislav recently 
updated the "mold" article [1], but where is that reflected in the 
rip-off?

[1] http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/REBOL_Programming/mold


I strongly suggest that this wholesale importing of other information 
is stopped or maybe even undone. Otherwise you'll just create more 
stale information. Just a link to to the primary sources really is 
the better approach.


If you want this site to take off, create _new_ information; this 
way, you'll actually _add_ value.

Great work GrahamC, added to http://rebol.informe.com/wiki/view/R3_network_scheme
 so the community may contribute! :-)

This is probably because there is no 512-bit AES algorithm -- see 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AES%5F%28cipher%29

That makes sense. The strength: 512 in the code misled me to believe 
it should be possible.


The blowfish algorithm works fine, but I presume it actually uses 
a key of 448 bits and not 512. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowfish_%28cipher%29. 
In which case the value returned by the print port/strength is deceptively 
wrong when I test it with blowfish? Or am I missing something?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb688129
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_numbering_plan


I think the number of options are limited enough that you could get 
pretty far, but a custom system would be great. If you could template-ize 
things, users could submit their templates for others to use, or 
to be integrated into the default system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_numbers_in_New_Zealand

learnt something new .. 02 is for Scott Base in Antarctica ;)

Also check E164 formatting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.164
and
http://www.wtng.info/wtng-tt.html

Ah, yeah, I overspecced the R3 version by using QUOTE. Although there's 
a standatd workaround for integers (precede it with 1 1), for any-blocks 
and functions it might be best to do the comparison using REBOL code. 
The R2 equivalent of the IF operation in R3 parse would help here: 
http://www.rebol.net/wiki/Parse_Project#IF_.28condition.29

Any "c" character? I guess then that I was very lucky with Cheyenne: 
http://cheyenne-server.org/wiki/Main/Command
:-)

See also


http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/REBOL_Programming/Language_Features/Parse/Parse_expressions

i mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tail_call

http://www.rebol.net/wiki/Forgoing_faux_pas#The_COPY_Trap

That's why it is so frustrating having static documents .. that only 
one person can change. Wiki is better.

Nick -- Have you looked at using a variable base algorithm? It may 
be fast, and it should be amenable to windowing:
   http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Permutations/Rank_of_a_permutation
Even if neither, it should be fun to write the script.

Great works Ladislav, added to http://rebol.informe.com/wiki/view/Rebol_3-closure
 wiki

I've set up a new wiki for Syllable, running on Fossil:

When I was trying to learn REBOL, the most helpful document was the 
cookbook,
http://www.rebol.net/cookbook/


Different subjects, but covers almost all the subjects, and they 
are all complete. If we do something like that and give links to 
related wiki pages about the topic of the example, it would be a 
great way to learn RED for beginners.

And the most difficult thing was the fragmented docs, we should avoid 
that..

The best way for documentation is a wiki, where people can easily 
ragiter, log in and edit.

I think that something like http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/REBOL_Programming
is the best thing. You may organize topics, correct, edit and add 
pages

Everything I can find on Parse - This is one subject that is all 
over the place.
 - I am curious whether you read


http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/REBOL_Programming/Language_Features/Parse

as one of the sources?

Doc, for implementation details, you and a few others who know will 
have to provide the basic information. If there is cleanup and wordsmithing 
to be done, as long as others can edit it easily, I would leave that 
to someone else. Write the best doc you can, of course, but don't 
worry if it's not perfect. Your time should be spent doing things 
nobody else can do as well, using what you know, and what you know 
is planned.


For friendly user reference, do you have a style of docs you want 
to mimic, or an idea of how you want the doc data managed? e.g., 
do you want to use a wiki, so that infrastructure is all there?

I think a wiki like Wikibooks could be a good start, but I would 
like to use makedoc format. I know that the R3 wiki has been adapted 
to accept makedoc format as input, how could we do the same for Wikibooks? 
Is it possible to export all wikibook content to a parse-able format? 
I don't want to be trapped in a given tool, I want to be free to 
retarget docs to whatever format/tool we find appropriate in the 
future.


If wikibooks is not the best tool for the job, we might want to install 
a copy of R3 wiki on another server.


The only issue I have with wikis is that we need someone in charge 
there, reviewing every single change and filtering them when needed. 
Without someone fulfilling that role, it will quickly become a big 
mess.

I think that e.g. Mikrotik used the same wiki Carl choosed for R3, 
and they made it a bit prettier. I would find such docs good enough 
- http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Main_Page

About wikis, I would probably prefer that the document structure 
is fixed, and then each page can be a wiki. We had problems early 
on with the R3 GUI documentation that someone changed it.

I'm with Doc and Henrik. Wikis are great for letting people contribute, 
but they never have the same feel, IMO, as a polished document. A 
main reason for that is the primary way wikis work: many voices. 
I think we need a wiki, or something that makes it just as easy to 
contribute, but we also need a more formal structure and control 
for some things, as Henrik says.


Henrik did some great work on a MediaWiki interface for R3 DocBase. 
I don't remember the details of how it worked, but I still have it 
here, so we could look at that as a starting point.

Looks like Gigaspaces uses a wiki, and Confluence is in their footer.

To amend my earlier statements, a wiki as a platform is not the problem. 
The problem is putting up a wiki and expecting great documentation 
to appear, without someone to set up a structure, design, and maintain 
it. You need a leader.

I'll try to get back later, to pull other doc links from the #Red 
group. In the meantime, here is one:

http://wiki.gigaspaces.com/wiki/display/XAP9/XAP+9.0+Documentation+Home


I like the upper right link categories: API docs, Forum, Blog, White 
Papers.

We might have another good alternative option to the wiki (maybe 
easier and more flexible): use a github repo for all the    documentation 
pages in makedoc format, and have external export batch script to 
export them in HTML, PDF or whatever format.

So storing the docs in source format in a DVCS repo would allow us 
to generate static web pages for the docs, avoiding   (potentially 
painful) tweaking and maintainance of a PHP-based wiki engine.

A wiki seems like the best way to get community help collecting examples 
of function use.

A wiki lowers the barrier to contribute, best would be if it were 
possible to import the added pearls to the 'official' docs.

If you can build successfully R3 in Widnows with MinGW, please post 
the procedure on GitHub wiki

The http://www.rebol.com/r3/docs/index.htmlwiki is not good, you 
can't register or edit.... :-(

Sorry, but I don't think so. 

A good wiki is a wiki where is easy to register and edit. The one 
on the Rebol.com is not a good wiki.

People will register and use GitHub, so a wiki must be on GitHub. 

If youlike, you may have an "offical" wiki in Rebol, but a living 
wiki is the GitHub.

I can copy all rebol wiki on GitHub, you you want; but please reactivate 
the GitHub wiki!

Don't do the same errors of Rebol 2, where there was a wall between 
people and reboltech.

MaxV: I will gladly let it to Carl to sort out. He was reshaping 
a wiki for nearly 3 months, and there are something like 75K pages 
of content. It is also kind of autogenerated/automated. So - do you 
want to do many things manually?

Well, WIP wiki is imo OK, that's all I say. You are wrong if you 
think there are no editors, etc. Those are just higher rank users 
of R3 Chat IIRC. We imo need some consensus on this - do we move 
everything to Github? What about prebuilt products, marketing, etc.? 
What remains on REBOL.com then?

The problem is another, if someone want to add content, he can't. 

Look at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/REBOL_Programming, it's better 
of the rebol wiki sine everybosy can contribute.

The expert can continue to use the rebol wiki, but the big audience 
must be able to contribute with the GitHub wiki.

MaxV: "The http://www.rebol.com/r3/docs/index.htmlwiki is not good, 
you can't register or edit.... :-( " - that is actually not true. 
You *can* register if you want, just say so in here.

I want that people will continue to use what they prefer, but Rebol 
misses all the common tools of open projects:
- public forum
- public wiki

The way to eneter in connection with others is too complicated by 
now. GitHub is making all a little easy, so why closing GitHub wiki? 
Leave it open, people will decide if usinig GitHub Wiki or the old 
complicated way to enter in the rebol community.

I don't say to close the Rebol wiki.

Hostile fork recovered the WIKI: https://github.com/hostilefork/r3-hf/wiki
 , so is someone needs isnformations or want to put informations, 
uses that link.

Use thet link https://github.com/hostilefork/r3-hf/wiki

The thing is that MD markup is supported by quite some Wiki engines 
etc.

Robert:  Do it.  Make MDP cleaner.  Then we make a Wiki that uses 
the cleaner MDP.  Or fix MarkDown so it is better than MDP.

How to building using MinGW: https://github.com/hostilefork/r3-hf/wiki/Building-from-source-on-windows-with-mingw

MaxV, I made a couple tiny edits to clarify https://github.com/hostilefork/r3-hf/wiki/Building-from-source-on-windows-with-mingw
.  I hope that's ok.

https://github.com/hostilefork/r3-hf/wiki/Building-from-source-on-windows-with-mingw

Now digit the following commands in MinGW console: => Now type ??

Florin, I wrote this about adding your own scheme https://github.com/hostilefork/r3-hf/wiki/How-to-add-your-own-scheme

I think we should put this up on the rebol.net Wiki for a start. 
This will give us a convenient location to point to.

Actually, we had such a page before:
http://rebol.net/wiki/DocBase:Community_Portal