AltME groups: search

on my system tree-heavy averages 8fps at any window size. 


the reason its this slow is that I'm not using any kind of smart 
opengl video ram caching atm.  this will obviously be done in time... 
for now I still need to implement things like a real camera primitive, 
lights and materials.

Yes, slow satellite connection, especially at this time of day. Nevertheless, 
AltME should not behave this way.

i think it's time dependent

My guess is that it's the server that takes time to append the message 
in the chat file.

Dunno if it does a simple append to the file but if it needs to load 
it in memory, append the block, then write it down to disk, it could 
explain why bigger chat files take longer to update !!

Wonderful ... Altme is showing me the wrong time too ... and not 
my new daylight savings time

I'm getting "Internet busy" a lot too.

I've just posted twice privately to Graham, and each time it took 
too long for the message to be echoed back to me, so I switched groups 
to continue reading. After a few minutes, I went back and the message 
had appeared. However, in both instances, my message was not cleared 
from the New message entry area, so I had to clear it manually.

its become slow for everyone.  is it time to start up a new world... 
or update the server its running on?

IOS was sold long time ago to Reichart's company

I want to put a second world on my computer / world server and in 
the past I spent a fair bit of time resetting worlds due to them 
becoming unreachable.

It has been fixed. I run two worlds, and no unexpected outages since 
the time of the fix ....

actually, the corruption is easily explained by the backup taking 
place at the same time of someone posting to those groups

I just had a VERY strange problem in altme... its the second time 
this week and its never happened before...


I stopped receiving notifications from altme, but it was still linked 
in, and not reporting Internet busy....

That way, we can miss if someone contacts us. So the urge is to check 
if some name is at the top of the list, and better check from time 
to time ....

it seems I still have my private messages, not sure if they'll disappear 
next time someone writes to me :) I have a backup anyway.

Tomc, wise.


I use Qtask since I know the notes will be there, or Qtask's Scratchpad.

Every time a computer crashes, or my celll phone resets, I'm SOOOOOOOOOOO 
happy.

The only time I've ever seen AltME lose files is when the disk runs 
out of space.

I changed personas at this time .. too afraid to login under my old 
nick in case I lost all my PMs

AltME uses a write/append which for some reason on Linux means: if 
you cannot append, truncate the entire file to zero.


For performance reasons (blame the early optimization guys), the 
default setting for many file systems on Linux is to write metadata 
independently from data, which means that it often gets written first. 
The result is that if writing the data fails (eg. power failure, 
kernel panic, ...), the files end up 0 length.


This can be disabled by setting the filesystem to always write data 
and metadata at the same time (at the price of write performance).

Well... at this point... given that the more time goes on the harder 
it will be to fix this world, why don't we just make a new one?

I noticed something interesting: When you are reading a red group, 
the column in the left hand side is colored yellow for unread posts. 
When switching group, there is for me a waiting period of about 2-3 
seconds, for large groups before the new group appears.


However before the group switches, the coloration disappears, suggesting 
that a redraw of the list takes place before the switch. If this 
redraw was removed, switching columns might take much less time, 
perhaps half as long.

I tried to create a zip archive, but it is about the same size, so 
no help. IIRC there was some AltME version, which allowed to use 
bigger sizes? I think it would be good to have it as a command-line 
option for the server startup. It is my private world, and I would 
allow 20MB easily. It is not first time I got file bigger than 10MB 
I needed to post ....

though in qtask, I discovered, that if you switch window and come 
back to altme, the copy may work the first time.


the focal support in R2 sucks.  its just weirdly implemented and 
it creates many bugs, especially since most faces share their para 
object by default.


I've added this to my style init  in many new styles:  [para: make 
para []]

I am using altme from time to time from my USB stick (a bit slow, 
due probably to slow flash disk plus the way how altme relies on 
heavy file access, but still usable), and the only thing I need is 
to just copy it ...

I missed that horror.

With a slow connection, when datasets are large and take too much 
time to reload, Altme performs an automatic deco/reco and all the 
current loading is lost.
Probably because it fails to ping the server during the load.

Entering in endless attemps to reload and reload the same dataset 
(not sure though).

It's an OLD issue, I already notified that in the past. several times.

but I always had trouble making myself trust by people who do have 
not that problem.

I missed that horror.

With a slow connection, when datasets are large and take too much 
time to reload, Altme performs an automatic deco/reco and all the 
current loading is lost.
Probably because it fails to ping the server during the load.

Entering in endless attemps to reload and reload the same dataset.

It's an OLD issue, I already notified that in the past. several times.

but I always had trouble making myself trust by people who do have 
not that problem.

then, today I did 11 copy/pastes in a row and was typing at the same 
time (and they all worked!)...

that's when I realized that going from typing to copying was the 
secret!

In another AltME world I'm participating in, AltME file sharing is 
used to share 103 files, all of which I have downloaded. Every time 
I (re)connect, AltME offers me to re-download 63 of them. Irrespective 
of whether I re-download or not, I'm again offered this each and 
every time I connect.

It may be the daylight savings time bug, where that changeover makes 
all the file times apparently an hour off. This is because the AltME 
file time handling isn't converted to UTC.

No, this is the yearly daylight savings time problem. It's just not 
fixable. Redownloading doesn't help

It will corrupt all other programs that use time. It won't fix AltME's 
problems. We've tried

well, that might be tricky, as IIRC altme.com keeps the world info 
from xy days. You would have to let it time-out at altme.com, turning 
off the world for xy days imo.

and also - there might be one bug I noticed and reported. When you 
start first world on 5400, and the other one on 5401, altme.com registers 
the second one on 5400 too. I overcame it by disallowing port 5400 
on my firewall for the time of registration of the 5401 world, or 
it would connect users to my first world.

I tried maikng another world from altme.com hoping it would not assign 
the port until I started teh world for the first time with my desired 
port but no good...it was assigned 5400 so same issue.

amacleod - when starting second world, e.g. on port 5401, during 
the time of setting-up the world, please prohibit altme.com from 
accessing another port on already opened 5400 port. That is imo a 
bug I found, and it did not get fixed yet. So disable 5400 port temporarily 
on port 5400. Maybe it will be enough if you turn-off the world running 
on 5400 port, because I got into situation, when Altme.com pointed 
two different worlds to the same 5400 port ...

anyone knows whats this? i had altme open on my intel mac for a few 
weeks and this is what it was spitting onto the terminal. there was 
interesting glicth happening at the same time: my clicks were interpreted 
with some offset.

@  Reichart : We were discussing in the OPEN GL group about the default 
way AltMe permits to enter text - and we were 3 that think the default 
way to enter text would be the EDIT mode (the one that accepts Line 
feeds without submitting the post automatically. 


Would you be considering this option in a future release - even if 
I now realize that this is a global switch since when I submits new 
posts this mode is kept alive.


I didn't ask for others to vote for this change but you can do it 
if you want - I find it  really annopying - more than the obligation 
to commit messages by having to use the mouse each time. I know it's 
a productivity consideration but as I can't reedit my sent posts, 
sometimes they didn't look good - until I asked someone how to enter 
LFs.

Thanks a lot for considering this request. 
Regards, Gerard

The stock Apple Mail program for example, or the Opera mailer... 
even google is near real-time for searching now.

179,000+ posts and real time search:
   http://www.rebol.org/aga-index.r

And I don't have the time to write one myself :(

But it's a long time since I signed up, so .... :)

I have had that issue with private messages at time here. Maybe due 
to the size of the world?

This happened only for a short time in a few groups. Syncing was 
slow for all the groups

Yes, Jaime was able once upon a time

R3 RebDev now works for the first time on Desktop. I suspect this 
also fixes the same error message people had with it on the Amiga 
port

Sorry. I was just adding the information from the last time the subject 
was discussed, and factors that weren't considered. No offence was 
intended. I'll stay out of this one if you prefer. The old pages 
are still there for reference.

It's also the first time I'm getting a speed increase from R3. It 
builds websites around 35% faster than R2

I want anyway to thank you all for your kindness, your time, your 
passion. But you have to see that small time, small means and lazyness 
don't build pyramids. You can't get to be productive and serrious 
and that's a pain to see. I tryed my best to get things moving around. 
I tryed my best to help. Even if  franckly my  center of interest 
was not on par with the topics. I tryed to give my point of view 
alway in the idea of making things better for us all and find ways 
to share the burden.

It took a lot more time than I expected to create the documentation 
for the cURL binding; about as long as the binding itself. But here 
it is, together with the documentation for the example extension:

yeah, documentation usually takes up to 3 times as long as coding.... 
there is What, How and often Why to explain all the time.

GLASS RELEASE 002
---------------------------

released last week, but posting it here to make it easier to find, 
since the GLASS group has a lot of discussion in it....

http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/files/glass-r002.zip


-adds the editor style, which is now able to show text and scroll 
in real-time, but still has no keyboard handling yet.
-adds a few new more advanced tutorials

-adds a new demo app which is the basis for a full text-editor in 
REBOL (you can use the load button which allows you to load text 
within the editor, it loads files almost instantaneously... I was 
surprised how quickly it loaded even 1MB files), file size doesn't 
change editor refresh speed..

very extensive history of changes, 
very extensive TO DO list

some improvements to libs here and there.

An evaluation of the compatibility of this new release of R3GUI with 
the standard r3-a111 release (recompiled), and an adaptation of the 
Carl's demo.r to this r3-gui.r3. Result : very good. It's time to 
develop r3 view applications !
http://www.colineau.fr/rebol/r3-gui.html

https://github.com/Oldes/npp-communityis forked complete version 
of the Notepad++ Community Release (which is not exactly the same 
like the one from http://notepad-plus-plus.org/) I will provide a 
patch for the official version as well. But it can take some time 
to be accepted there.

I've been using a new laptop for the past 24 hours, and it is the 
most  frustrating lump of hardware I've ever had the misfortune to 
use.


Why? There's an extra set of hotkeys on the keyboard exactly where 
your muscle memory expects ctrl and shift.


Even when partially disabled (they can't be fully disabled) I'm pressing 
a dead key half the time rather than the one I want.


It seems impossible that such a design survived any sort of usability 
testing.

And I am not alone.....

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-systems-and/How-to-disable-Quick-Launch-keys-on-G62/td-p/272315

So, stay tuned and I must say that this is the most promising development 
for a long time.

Ok, time to go bed, it seems

Well, for one thing, complex, flexible mezzanine functions tend to 
be slowed down by the conditional code that determines the actual 
behavior desired in a particular case. There are real advantages 
to seperating a complex function into multiple smaller, simpler functions. 
This makes it so the choices about which set of behavior to use are 
made by the programmer at development time instead of by the interpreter 
at runtime. SPLIT is a really large function that does many different 
things, so it's a good candidate for such a function split.

But that might be because I've been mostly writing mezzanine code 
in R3, which doesn't allow the use of functions that complex, even 
though that's where they're implemented. For my user code, SPLIT 
was too confusing for me to remember to use, even when it would have 
been an advantage. As a counterexample, COLLECT also has too much 
overhead to use in mezzanine code, but I use it in user code all 
the time.

Like most developers, I don't read the docs for a function unless 
it is complex enough to need docs, and powerful enough to make it 
worth the time to do so. PARSE is an example of a function that deserves 
docs beyond the doc strings, or maybe the source. SPLIT should be 
more like FIND, understandable without reading a web page. Requiring 
otherwise is a design failure. I couldn't even understand SPLIT's 
rationale from its own source code.

That seems like a message from a different planet :-) It's been quite 
long time, since someone worked with R3 imo. Is there any related 
ticket?

It's been quite long time, since someone worked with R3
 - certainly true, if you replace "someone" by "I, Pekr"

Ladislav: it really does not matter, how accurate is my message or 
your reply. If we want to be 100% correct, than you are of course 
right :-) My message was a general claim meaning, that even in the 
time of active R3 development, there were not many ppl using R3, 
and there was even less ppl using R3 actively under linux imo (which 
is quite logical, as for a long time R3 was primarily developed for 
Windows only). 

Is there any related ticket

 was important part of the message re possible WAIT problem underl 
 Linux. The only possibly related is http://curecode.org/rebol3/ticket.rsp?id=1861&cursor=2


So - before I download R3 for Linux, drop it to my linux server, 
and spend my time experimenting, my question could translate as - 
what should be the mentioned problem with WAIT under Linux all about?

Oy. You get what I mean...I hope. Time to sleep.

Short update, we received a R3 Core version for OSX / Linux with 
the WAIT bug (consuming 100% CPU time) fixed. I still need to give 
it a try but I expect it to work. With this we now can use R3 on 
the non-GUI server side with our event driven BEEP based communication 
layer.

+1 for DirectFB. although it required callbacks, thats why i had 
hard time to interface it with gforth many years ago.

Kaj it's been 10 years now I'm around rebol  and  last time this 
very people talked about creating a fork of rebol that could standalone 
as a relevent project with a true future it was  before Carl anouncing 
the r3 projet and already in that time  Carl was went missing without 
news to hear.

so Carl came at that time with the r3 project motivate us around 
it gived us hopes and 5 years later we are in the worst situation 
... And we are back at the initial stage "carl is missing we need 
another solution to make rebol granted a futur independently of Carl"

Kaj yeah but in that time we had some solutions too freebe and r# 
and you own project before boron  ...

You seem to be confusing me with Karl Robillard for quite some time

Kaj exactly ...  and that's already my case  I will not spend all 
my free time trying to bring up a langage that its author will abandone 
... basically that's why I stoped participating in rebol

and I don't understand red ... well I didn't spent too much time 
on it and I don't want to hum be more of  a SoB that I am ... I can 
say I like 3 things in rebol code efficient and short, one small 
VM to do everything, the console to code interactively ... and I 
think this part was underestimated by carl in r3  ...

do we have to buy rebol source code from carl like it was done from 
neogeo by blender ? if that the case I'm ready to give to taht purpose 
one moth of salary in full this is how commited I am to rebol cause 

I like rebol I always liked it and will always like it ... I'm just 
extermely sad that we can't organise a proper stuff to make rebol 
the gran scripting language it deserves to be 

We lack comitement we lack seriousnes and sorry to tell you this 
but rebol shouldn't be our hobby it should be our reason to very 
live 

You guys should be ashamed to see so much people leaving this community 
and instead of smugging them and ignoring them YOU (yeah you !  don't 
force me to call you by your name !) should be an offering  force 
to create main project AND WORK WITH THE OTHERS to make rebol something 
noticeable not just something to fill your spare time !

you shoudl be ashamed of this ... common are you so blind that you 
see rebol being abandonned and deserted more and more  RMA is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar 
zillion light years of being as community moving as RebGUI and the 
main reason is that by abandoning REbGUI you slaped us in our faces 
and know what we don't like that we don't like the gurus selected 
fews we don't like RMA we don't like what rebol has become and the 
one more hating is is carl sassenrath  himself  we forced his hand 
to give us more  freedom and more action on rebol and WE WASTED IT 
purely and simply 


Then all we ever standed for is futile and void ... and what I see 
here is stupid comments about a dead product that it's main own and 
only author abandoned .

Instead of giving bucktracks that will never been read or take in 
considaration please the remaining of you the rebol community TAKE 
ACTION !!!

If you hate me if you dispise me then this is your chance to prouve 
me wrong and make miserable ! cause hey the mniserable ones til now 
are you the stupid tens thousand bugs founders that will never find 
a solution cause the main guy to  implement those fixe is gone since 
november 2010

Is rebol a going concern or not?  I don't want to take the time to 
learn a dead language.

it's probably a good idea for you to wait a couple of years and see 
where it is at that time.

I read that essay a long time ago. I thought he meant that he wanted 
to develop a language that would still be relevant 100 years from 
now -- not take 100 years to develop it.

Languages don't die, but become irrelevant. You are free to use ALGOL 
for your projects, but there are probably other languages better 
for the task, so ALGOL is not so relevant anymore. I don't see REBOL 
becoming irrelevant any time soon.

Carl is terrible in mainataining the community. The same question 
was asked on facebook. His blogs an twitte are dead, and R3 chat? 
The system, which halted development of R3 for quite some time, is 
offline for something like a month? Didn't Carl even noticed? Well, 
of couse, as the last time he was online was in April.


R3 is in the state, where others might use it to their advantage, 
and buil-up on it. And e.g. RMA is doing so. What would be still 
welcomed by many, it is for Carl to at least share his commitment 
to the future of REBOL, because I can understand, why ppl are reluctant 
to use it.


From all the REBOL related projects, RED and maybe TOPAZ are the 
most real ones. We will see, how those projects go ...

Henrik, Oldes, thanks for your time.

From time to time I watch http://haxe.org/doc

Pekr: "...author's ignorance to co-work with the community..." - 
this time you are wrong. It is your ignorance, Pekr.

Ladislav - I don't mind you thinking I am wrong, as I might be easily 
misunderstood. This time though, I insist. You either know what has 
to be done to support your effort, or you don't, which is often the 
case of good engineers ...

We can plug one hole at a time. What you are requesting is something 
that we are trying to prohibit, and we have good reasons for doing 
so. If there are also other means of doing it, we can address those 
issues later. One issue at a time.

That was just a placeholder. The stuff variable could be the results 
of a prompt to the user for their password, or of a native function 
that decrypts something. One problem at a time.

Thanks Robert - that works fine - now :) Henrik was correct at the 
time, the server was having problems - it is what prompted my question.

For instance:
>> 1 + #"a"
== 98
>> #"a" + 1
== #"b"


The latter looks alright to me, the former looks weird, like a to-integer 
is missing. Can't say why though. I know why the result is an integer! 
(the left side sets the datatype returned most of the time), but 
any math that treats a char! as a number rather than as a non-numeric 
ordinal value just seems weird to me.

Alright, not "most of the time", just in this case. For others:
>> 1 + 1.0
== 2.0
>> 1 + $1
== $2
>> 1 + 100%
== 2.0


Maybe that's why it seems weird. I guess that since R3 char! values 
are currently limited to the codepoints in the BMP they are 16 bits, 
so converting back to char! would be a potential loss of range. It 
could go either way, so I guess the datatype-on-the-left rule is 
a way for the developer to specify which they want. And that rule 
applies to string types too (for INSERT and APPEND), so it's not 
completely weird.

Under OS X:
Using R2:
>> time [n: 1000000 while [0 < n: n - 1][]]
== 0:00:00.219887
Using R3:
>> dt [n: 1000'000 while [0 < n: n - 1][]] 
== 0:00:00.339793

My R2 time is:

time: func [:f /local t][
    t: now/time/precise 
    do f 
    now/time/precise - t
]

Could be. I need pragmas in a few places, but I haven't dug deeply 
into that area of compilation. It's boring, I think. :) And I haven't 
had time to look at things like LLVM, but that would probably solve 
some problems and speed things up even more.

Yes, indeed. We should concetrate upon what we have. And we have 
clones, plus existing RT's products, which are still useable, although 
we would like to see them progress further. If Carl does not return 
to R3 one day, nor does he release its sources, it was big 5+ years 
of wasted time imo ...

It also suppressed the production of derivatives at the time

hi Chris (RG). I tried your twitter example, but I can't make it 
work. It waits for a long time and then throws an timeout error.

The biggest problem was not knowing if it was possible - so I wasn't 
really sure hitting each 401 whether it was something I did vs. it 
wasn't possible.  Turns out each time it was me : )

A friend of mine built a very cool system that weighed RSS feeds, 
sort of like how Netflix weighs movie ratings.  It was real time. 
 But no one understood how cool it was.

So for example, you might want all feeds that mention REBOL.  You 
set it to grab 100%, in so doing, and since I know you, if I even 
ask for 5% of my news to be REBOL, it would give me a little more 
since others that I know really like "REBOL" related stuff.  

http://jaanix.com/
 
Play with it.  He works for Skype now.

Can someone help me.  I'm having trouble using the code:

settings:	[

        ; Source from:	http://www.ross-gill.com/page/Twitter_API_and_REBOL

        ; prerequisite:	https://dev.twitter.com/apps/new(one time for below)
        c-key:		#VPC....MLyQ		; C-Key
        c-secret:		#jYK4....POjI		; C-Secret
        u-store:		%/MyApps/TwitterUsers.r
        twitter:		http://reb4me/r/twitter.r
    ]

do settings			; assigns parms

do/args twitter context [
	Consumer-Key:	c-key
	Consumer-Secret:	c-secret
	User-Store:		u-store
	]

I get the following:

connecting to: reb4me
** Access Error: Cannot connect to reb4me
** Where: open-proto
** Near: do/args twitter context [
    Consumer-Key: c-key
    Consumer-Secret: c-secret
    User-Store: u-store
]

I must be missing a step or something.

I don't know how I will be regarding time/money in february but in 
general I woul be interested to come!

I'll probably be in Maui at that time... maybe me and Reichart can 
say hello from skype.

How much time do you need for that in total?

I was hit by time constraints I couldn't forsee and I'm not able 
to schedule away.

I published the time schedule

Regarding the "why the heredoc syntax was proposed" question, here 
is another reason, that is important for me, proving, that even users 
not planning to use other languages than REBOL can take advantage 
of it:


In my REBOL script files, I usually write code examples, or code 
tests, that are meant to demonstrate the newly defined functions, 
or to test whether they work as expected. That code is in no way 
meant to be run every time the script is run. Therefore, I use the 
COMMENT function to ensure the example/test code does not run every 
time the script is run.


Since it is a comment, I prefer to use a string to be able to write 
it "free-form" not being bound by the requirement of loadability 
of the text. However, when the code examples in the comment contain 
special "escaped characters", this would look ugly, therefore I rather 
give up the free-formness of the comment gaining the advantage of 
not being forced to escape the special characters, but being forced 
to keep the comment REBOL-loadable. The proposed heredoc syntax can 
solve this, and similar problems nicely and naturally.