AltME groups: search

Just wondering if there is a way to have an sdk app run in admin 
mode (without the user doing it)? For syncing purposes I had offered 
to auto correct time nad it worked for XP but windows 7 needs the 
app to run in admin mode ... I know it goes against the whole idea 
of security but just in case I'm missing something....

I was not aware that Nenads call also supports output. 
And indeed win-call/output was not working for me.

So far 2.7.5. 2.6.2, 2.5.6 and 2.5.125 is working for me, but the 
cmd window is annoying, especially as my calls take a long time.

Gab, at the time I asked if anyone had any success in this ... and 
there was no one.

Doc: the code is in sort of "prototype state" and It was meant as 
possible implementation for R3 in future (once Carl put the encryption 
algorithms codebase into the R3/host-kit or someone write an extension 
for that).

I wrote it because I wanted to know if we could get rid of unnecesary 
C code that is currently in R2 to just handle the protocol logic 
while the performance of the crypto algorithms will remain in C. 
The current size is less than 20Kb of Rebol script code so IMO it 
could be useful and also easier maintainable way.

Currently it works in client-side mode only but there is already 
support for ASN.1 certificates also I tried to write the code so 
the server-side mode and other cipher-suites shouldn't be hard to 
add.

I plan to release the prototype to open public after some cleanup 
but if you want to waste some time with the current 'raw stuff' just 
post me privately and I'll send you a copy.

Yea, I've opened many time the flash IDE but it never lasted more 
then 5 minutes..

yes that would be better, but that idea is just because it would 
be easier to have it installed on millions computers.. having people 
install rebol web plugin will take time to spread

Not quite enough time to read the answers. Maybe clicking should 
shorten it.

Yes, I know. I would like to write Rebol as well but I can't reinvent 
the world all the time. And Haxe is c-ish enough to get it into my 
brain :-)

It would have more sense to write Rebol dialect to get Haxe or AS 
code. I was already thinking about it in the past but I never found 
enough motives and time to do it.

Oldes, it might be the right time to start with such a thing. I need 
to play around with Haxe but it might really make sense.

Maybe it's right time for you, but not for me as I really don't have 
a time for it at this moment. And it doesn't make too much practical 
sense to me.  Especially if I'm able to get the bytecode myself.

The Haxe dialect (to use REBOL terms) can be compiled to Neko (or 
Flash, ...) but the dialect processor is implemented in Neko, and 
the surface syntax resembles Neko (last time I checked).

Hand painted, scaned, finalized in photoshop, then prepared animations 
in Flash and done interactivity in my dialect. http://www.machinarium.com/
I'm also using my dialect to get scaled versions as the original 
is 1250x790 - Flash can scale on runtime, but that would slow down 
the rendering, so I scale all graphics during compile time.

no, it should not be difficult, but I don't have a time at all now.

What do you mean "reference page"? I was not making many web pages 
using the dialect as making the game was very time consuming. But 
in the past I used it for example to make this site http://miss3.cz/

Intentional programming reminds me of the hype around the "The Last 
One" program generator a generation or so ago. (So called as it was 
the last program you'd ever need to buy -- it could write all the 
others for you)....I remember chuckling at the time at how seriously 
some people took it in the few months it took to drop completely 
out of sight:
http://www.presshere.com/html/wf8104.htm

Reichart, I read the article, and my opinion is, that you will always 
need good programmers, no matter what abstraction you make to the 
problem.

A good programmer (or more general: developer) can something, a typical 
user can't. The developer can - based on logic - see the consequences 
of different rules within the software. When users are alloud to 
decide, how the software should work, you always end up with something, 
which will break logically, when some situation occur. A good developer 
can think of that beforehand and make sure, the whole system of rules 
makes sense and do the right thing, whatever will happen. The user 
may be happy for a while, if she "designed" the software, but a little 
later it'll break down logically, and she'll loose money and time 
again.

Spending  years to learn correct spelling, but spending no time to 
learn correct logic - are'nt users silly ;)

you will always need good programmers


We strongly disagree, in fact the time of no need for programmers 
is probably closer than we (programmers) want. 


AI will one day be good enough to solve domain problems.  The architecture 
of computer systems will be self correcting, responsive, and self 
writing one day.


Software will fix itself in response to millions if not billions 
of people reacting to using it, and it will slowly and systematically 
correct itself, improve itself, and even offer new features simply 
for test.  In other words, software will eventually self evolve.

That is so sad that it scares you.


Does it scare you that "your" people no longer have a job which is 
to collect the buckets of feces from people's homes.  There is no 
longer a guy in town that cuts hair AND pulls teeth?  That there 
is no work for the guy that stored ice from, and delivered it to 
homes?  


What about the entire industry that used to wash clothes with their 
hands, or WHAT ABOUT all the scribes (monks) those pesky Germans 
put out of business with that automatic machine that made copies 
of copies instantly.


Sundanda, untrue.  You are blinded by your own time frame and reference. 
 Don't look at what was promised or what can be done, look at what 
was not talked about and "IS"

Needless shots
Flat screens
In-ear wireless communication
Solar power (PV) 
Microwave ovens 

Glues (I can name 50 amazing adhesives that have changed the word)
Growable organs
UCAVs (Robots in the sky).

I think that the end-of-programming predictions come true all of 
the time. It's just that the new systems require work as well, and 
though that work is often very different, people call the new work 
"programming". So, since there are still people "programming" people 
think that the prediction failed. It didn't fail - the concept was 
just redesigned to match the new needs.

Reichart, I wouldn't worry too much. What you're talking about require 
true AI, and we're not even close to have that. First we need computer 
technology based on quantum physics, then we need someone to build 
the system. I don't see this happen any time soon.

I'm not worried at all, and I'm privy to project in AI that are already 
demonstrating very impressive results.  


Systematic automation of a large quantity of currently menial jobs 
will occur in dramatic proportions in the next 50 years.


Where are the secretaries of yesterday?  The banks and rooms of young 
ladies typing away?


Several years ago the FDIC (American banking overview group), mandated 
Electronic fund transfer over paper.  Who suffered?  10,000 pilots 
lost their jobs.  Since they were not union, no one made a fuss in 
the news.  They used to fly boxes of receipts from place to place.


Instead of asking what jobs will be lost, think of it in terms of 
what jobs are people currently doing that simply don't need to be 
done a person.


It is so odd to me how people (even smart people) hold on to the 
past like a dog with an old bone.


No AI was needed to replace these jobs.  Are these young ladies without 
work?  Are all these lads no longer flying.  NOPE.


There are more jobs for people that can type than any time in history. 
 And pilots are in huge demand, as the prices of private planes have 
dramatically fallen (Honda is releasing a plane!) the private executive 
sector has grown.

It is so odd to me how people (even smart people) hold on to the 
past like a dog with an old bone.

True, that's not very clever, because everything is changing all 
the time. I'll give you, that the traditional typist will be replaced 
by something smarter, but talking about programmers, I think more 
in the term of system developers. And as I see it, there will be 
greater demands for good developers in the future.

Java imo lost its browser position looong time ago. I remember few 
sites, trying to do JAVA menus etc. in JAVA, back in some 1998-2000? 
Man it was ugly, slow, most ppl hated it. Then JAVA departured from 
browser.

Apple's iPhone has got a competition. It it in no way revolutionary. 
Eugenia from OSNews has some nice blog about it. First there was 
LG, now there is Samsung - those companies surely had such products 
in development for quite some time. Here's first look at Samsungs 
machine. And it got keyboard!


http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/en/news-13261-When+the+Korean+GOD+awake%2C+he+gives+us...+the+Samsung+Ultra+Smart+F700.html

The license restriction in question is one stating that Mac OS can 
only be run on Apple hardware. This restriction has been in their 
licenses for a long time. It should be noted that restrictions like 
this are often illegal for them to enforce in most countries that 
have consumer protection laws, such as all "Western" countries.

This is from the time where the Apple clones were killed, as Apple 
lost a lot of money to them, since they couldn't compete with them. 
Removing the clones and prohibiting use of MacOS on other than Apple 
hardware "solved" that problem.

Oldes, I have a commercial app online and its one of the most advanced 
scripts I've ever written.  it does web-service access in the bg 
doing sync of ui with a remote app (much like altme) , in the same 
time it crawls the net, does searching and allows you to download 
actual content when you ask for it... all simultaneously and using 
glayout too...

it is a pity Carl does not visit altme from time to time. I miss 
blog capability of "suggest a blog topic", which was promissed a 
bit ... I would like to know, what's in the pipe for View ... will 
Desktop be enhanced? Reworked? Removed? The same goes for VID - should 
it be part of View? Or an external module? Should View contain only 
generic gfx functions? (kind of face)

it's easy to tell on OSX: it eats about 10-15 times more memory than 
MS Office. If you start it, it takes a lot of time to load, and after 
that, the memory usage is easily 150-200 MB with no documents open.

They waste my time.

Reichart;  We (a dev team) duked it out way back with Word for DOS. 
 It was a

complete waste of our time.  We handed management a text file with 
some fairly

complex technical information and a "beautiful" word doc, full of 
near gibberish.

Management picked the gibberish doc...it looked better, to pass up 
the line.  We

giggled, then informed him of the insider joke, and spent the day 
wrestling with

Word to make the real tech spec "look good".  Sex sells.  When we 
wanted a

faster network, the document started with "Your pipe is very small" 
 No manager
wanted a small pipe! Very effective.

Like the piece of paper, the information is persistent the moment 
you write on it.

  This is the same in Qtask...we spend our time right now making it 
  faster, and much better (simpler) UI.

automatic persistent storage... i've done it, as the base of "your 
values!". wish i had the time to pursue that.

Paul: we've had this argument before, and I guess Jaime will not 
agree with me; also I've not read the posts on amigaworld, so i'm 
just talking in general about rebol and macros (sorry); anyway... 
rebol does not need macros. the reason is that lisp is a compiled 
language, so there is a difference between compile time and runtime. 
macros in lisp execute at compile time, functions at runtime. in 
rebol there is no such difference. you can write control functions 
in rebol without the need for macros, for example.

actually there is no relation. a macro is some code that is executed 
a compile time, and returns some other code (that is then compiled). 
basically, before compiling, lisp expands macros, like the C preprocessor 
expands text macros (of course, since lisp macros work at the list 
level instead of the text level, they are more powerful).

I think the DLR may be one of the more significant releases from 
MS in a very long time.

Gabriele, Even though there Scheme uses two stages the line between 
compile time and runtime is not the same as in C. You can write macros 
during runtime that get compile on the fly and avaialbe without ever 
stopping a program. So in this sense the two phase is just process 
is not really important. The feature that macros brings is syntactic 
abstraction. Also in Rebol you can not do low level control structures. 
That is you can not add foreach without having a looping construct 
already in place. So the mezzanine is slow. Compare to delimited 
continuations of Scheme where is  only control structure and recursion 
and optimized goto. You construct other control syntaxes on top of 
that.

Just got an email about this:
Micro Focus COBOL acquires Acucorp COBOL: http://www.acucorp.com/

Maybe it's time to do that COBOL dialect in REBOL!? ;-)

Ladislav, remind me in some time to check out your include system.

One of the tricks you would need is to realize that there is no "REBOL" 
language. Each dialect is semantically a seperate language, with 
a different execution model. You can't treat REBOL data as a particular 
dialect until you know which one, and you often don't know until 
runtime. Because of this you would have to compile at runtime, or 
at least function build time. Any attempt to compile ahead of time 
would change the semantics, in a similar way to how prebol does.


Even at runtime the semantics would be different, but not as different 
as you think. Few people realize that while the DO dialect looks 
a lot like a Lisp or Scheme clone, its underlying semantics are quite 
different - and yet they still are able to program in REBOL just 
fine. You could change the underlying semantics to a completely different 
model and keep all but the most guru of programming similar enough 
that most people won't notice the difference. The only main change 
would be to make the code blocks of compiled functions unchangeable 
once the function is built - so no more patching running code.

There is nothing missing in scheme, but there is something missing 
in rebol :)

Lots of parens for example. To solve such situations, rebol needs 
runtime-informations. Which function do i have here at this moment, 
with how many arguments? Without that information the meaning of 
some code is not clear, and it is only available at runtime. So early 
macros have no chance here.

Then there are dialects. They are data with rebol inside. Which parts 
of a parse-rule can be compiled to rebol? Could work if 'parse is 
a macro, up to some point.

But then there is vid. A macro would need to write a lot [ make face[] 
]. Such things grow big. And even then, look at [text a b] . At runtime 
this is easy, [a: 60x24 b: "Hello Scheme"], no problem. At macro-time 
no chance IMHO.

Scheme can be compiled to rebol, because a scheme-programmer has 
to give enough informations at compile-time. Rebol can not be compiled 
to scheme because rebol lacks that information. Making the life for 
the programmer easier, because more can be implicit.

Scheme could interpet dialects too, but then its no longer compiled. 
ANd it can not as good, because rebol-data can reference locals. 
Symbols with context. And scheme can not AFAIK, symbols are only 
unique strings. (i still hope i miss something, maybe a schemer would 
use little closures?)

but wouldn't the bind command and any internal rebol binding, be 
in fact where the JIT calls are made?  aren't these explicit points 
in time where a JIT could be applied?

One patent I'd like to see some "spirit of common good" applied to 
is turning off the

mouse pointer when it approaches an active text cursor.  Apple wanted 
to charge

MS large for it (iirc).  So we all get to flick the mouse around 
every time we type in a

field.  It is a nice feature of the Mac...but come on...RSI and carpal 
tunnel for what?
A nah-nah-nah-nah-na between two rivals.

I buy computer related books only very rarely - they are mostly a 
bloat and I often have feeling that you don't get what you expected. 
I am ok with on-line resources most of the time ...

I'll check the next time I see it!

It really looks nice but I don't get it why the add sutff like YouTube? 
That's really of no value... I want a smartphone helping me to organiza 
myself better, to collaborte etc. I don't need a "how-to-waste-your-time" 
gadget.

re Pyro but is only for Linux at this time

The funny thing about this project is that a time of opening their 
FORUM-Websote they had instatly 3000 registered users online ;-)

I'm not in defense on Apple here, but they do have really strict 
contractual obligations on what you can say to anyone when working 
for them. Apple employees are not allowed to talk to the press, family 
members, friends and even other Apple employees. If they do, they 
are fired immediately. The way Thinksecret obtained information was 
through breach of contract by Apple employees, similarly to how industrial 
espionage can be conducted. Because of this, they can prosecute.

The secrecy around products is very strong, because Steve Jobs just 
doesn't want products disclosed before time. That's how they do things, 
it's their business strategy and that's what Apple users must accept.

ah, it doesn't show every time you load it: Sun has acquired MySQL.

Amazing! So much money in databases. I should use more time on my 
own.

The second factor is - IE's percentage is so high just becaues of 
one factor - it is preinstalled and that userbase does not really 
care - mostly corporations, etc. There was once time, when companies 
heavily used IE for intranets and used special features. IMO nowadays 
the situation is better - you can build good intranet solution using 
other browsers too.

it looks like they need to work on the engine. if you are at war 
in the desert, and you hear the noise of a chainsaw in the distance, 
time to bring out the guns.

For those that collect programming languages;  HoltSoft the developers 
of Turing have gone out of business.  Dr Holt has moved on.  Turing 
is in wide spread use amongst Ontario High Schools.  (Sad, my home 
province pumped out an entire generation of programmers of a dead 
training language)  Anyway, they had posted it free for non-commercial 
use  on their website, which is now shutdown.   The admin of compsci.ca 
has posted it to their forum board.  This could well be a time limited 
offer.   I don't know all the details of Turing, but this version 
was commercial and proprietary before the shutdown announcement and 
posting of the free copies.   http://compsci.ca/holtsoft/

thanks.  Was it used only in Grade 14?  My fear is that UNICON could 
become a 'collectible' ( we pronounce it as in 'honey-comb' - sweet 
and well-constructed ).  No 'but the users suck big-time" jokes, 
OK?

Ch v6.0 is out.  Slower than 5.5 on my Win98 machine, but they fixed 
a few bugs, probably added others.

I still get freaked out by Ch.   Mixing shell, C and C++ at a console 
feels weird
C:/ch/> char *s = `date`
C:/ch/> s
Wed Apr 16 03:33:37 Eastern Daylight Time 2008
C:/ch/> free(s)

For the security minded, there is a new startup at www.Yubico.com 
with a cool new usb wafer that generates OTP (one time passwords).

It is small, light, and cheap (currently $35.00).  But the really 
neat thing about it is it can be combined with a service like www.MashedLife.com 
which can manage all of your website accounts with a secure login. 
 With OTP, keyloggers are not effective anymore.  It seems like a 
neat idea.  You can listen to Steve Gibson review at www.twit.tv/sn141. 
 If you want just the Yubico stuff, advance the audio stream to about 
3/4 the way through at about 1:15 to skip the RSA stuff before.

shadwolf, is "Syntoma" the brand of the LCD monitor ?

Having to wait 5 - 10 minutes before seeing a picture would be a 
waste of time.
Are you sure you cannot get your supplier to replace it ?

If you can fix it, that is good, but you have not earned any money. 
You will have lost both money and time.

1. productivity gains: You use better machines, less scrap, less 
time -> lower costs per part

lcd monitors use a neon like lamp to enligh the background of the 
LCD matrix and some time that neon tube lamp dies it can be changed 
easyly

Henrik - that is imo incorrect analysis of situation .... I am not 
sure it will influence IE at all. IE is used mainly by those, who 
don't care about browsers at all. And as such, those ppl will NOT 
look at Chrome. If they would be interested in alternative browser, 
they would use FF or Opera already for quite some time. My take is 
- if Chrome is going to hurt somebody, then it is definitively FF, 
not that much Opera. And Google is sponsoring FF by some 70mil USD 
anually, by presetting Google as default search engine. If they stop, 
Mozilla foundation can get into trouble a bit ...

Graham - it seems to me, that ppl sometimes construct their problems 
to prove somethings which actually is not happening. Did I got some 
crash with FF3? Yes, more than with FF2, especially with stupid quick-time 
format. But - did I got some tab locks? No, never ....

The two things that FF does poorly for me are memory over time use 
and stability.

About java being fast: It's speed is outweighed by its size. REBOL 
may not be extremely fast, but it's nimble enough to not let you 
notice most of the time.

It depends on your needs, which is why it's important for Carl to 
know what has the most value for us, so he doesn't spend time on 
things that don't have as much value.

For most of my code, it isn't interpreter execution time that makes 
REBOL more efficient. A typical REBOL program for me saves me days 
or weeks of work, sometimes more.

I would keep the DO dialect as is - it would be faster that way, 
because Java is only faster after you factor out JIT overhead. By 
having the compilation overhead at function creation time you could 
plan for it accordingly.

I don't agree for Java JIT overhead. Programs spend most of their 
time in loops where JIT overhead becomes rapidly unnoticeable (loops 
compiled code is cached).

There would be 2 things you would have to give up in a compilable 
dialect of REBOL, if you want it to be worth it:

- Code blocks that aren't statically determinable at function creation 
time (unlike your example above, which could be partially evaluated)

- Functions that could be edited in place, or hot-patched (already 
gone in R3)

If you don't give these up you would be adding compilation overhead. 
Admittedly, Java isn't the right language to emulate here - Forth 
or other stack languages would be better, as they are closer to the 
REBOL execution model and compiled Forth can be drastically faster 
than the best Java code.

Code blocks that aren't statically determinable at function creation 
time

. I agree, but if you look at most of the code written in REBOL (including 
mine or Carl's), it doesn't fall into that case. So, I guess that 
most of REBOL written code can be compiled. Maybe the compiler could 
be made smart enough to figure out what code can or cannot be compiled.

every time you are running another wbebrowser they ask you if you 
want to change the default to the curent one

Algorithmic changes could help in theory, but modern office apps 
just do a lot of work, and it takes them time to do so.

Yeksoon has updated the REBOL week blog. Just in time for Xmas, it 
shows lots of goodies from the REBOL community:
http://rebolweek.blogspot.com/

LiveJournal, the San Francisco-based arm of Sup, a Russian Internet 
startup, has cut 12 of 28 U.S. 


http://valleywag.gawker.com/5124184/the-russian-bear-slashes-a-social-network


It's only a matter of time before investors reach the same apparent 
conclusion as Paulson: that there's a lot of fuss in running a social 
network, but not that much money.

Adaptive A.I. Inc. launches commercial AGI-based virtual agent for 
call centers

Playa del Rey, California
January 12, 2009


Adaptive A.I. Inc. (a2i2) today released its first commercial product 
based on its artificial general intelligence (AGI) technology under 
development since 2001. It is a virtual call center operator that 
promises to propel speech-based interactive voice response (IVR) 
systems to much higher levels of performance.


Known as the SmartAction™ IVR System, it being sold and supported 
by a2i2’s recently formed commercial subsidiary, the Smart Action 
Company LLC.


The system is based on a2i2’s LiveAGI™ engine. Its integrated language 
processing, reasoning, memory, and knowledge-base capabilities allow 
it to hold smart, productive conversations. The LiveAGI brain manages 
conversation flow, meta-cognitive state (such as mood, degree of 
certainty and surprise), and determines when clarification or live-agent 
assistance is needed. Its built-in intelligence also allows the system 
to be taught new skills and knowledge, instead of these having to 
be custom programmed. Existing skills include email, as well as web 
and database interaction.


To achieve beyond state-of-the-art voice interaction, top of the 
line speech recognition technology is tightly integrated with the 
AGI brain to provide bi-directional benefits: The speech engine is 
dynamically tuned to current conversation context, while the cognitive 
engine analyzes multiple speech hypotheses for the most likely meaning 
and resolves ambiguities.


These innovations combine to provide solutions that significantly 
reduce the number of routine – and frequently boring and poorly handled 
-- calls taken by human agents while improving customer service levels. 
In addition to providing expected IVR capabilities such as 24/7 availability, 
consistent service quality, and the capacity to handle surges in 
call traffic, the SmartAction IVR System offers personalized responses 
by remembering the caller’s preferences, previous calls and other 
relevant data. Applied over multiple calls, callers don’t have to 
answer the same questions every time they call. If a call is interrupted, 
the system can call the customer back and pick up the conversation 
where it left off.


The company offers the SmartAction IVR System both as a hosted service 
and an in-house hardware-software turnkey solution. A web-based chat 
version is also available.


The ultimate purpose of a2i2’s LiveAGI Brain is to enable a major 
transformation of human-computer interfaces for a broad range of 
applications, such as websites, search engines, console and online 
games, virtual worlds, enterprise software, and consumer products. 
The company is currently researching and developing these applications, 
and under certain conditions will consider creating commercial versions 
in the near term.

About Adaptive AI, Inc.


Adaptive A.I. Inc. was founded in 2001 with the mission of researching, 
developing and commercializing far-reaching inventions in artificial 
general intelligence. Its founder, Peter Voss, has an accomplished 
career as an entrepreneur, inventor, engineer and scientist. His 
contributions to artificial general intelligence cover the fields 
of cognitive science, philosophy and theory of knowledge, psychology, 
intelligence and learning theory, and computer science.

www.adaptiveai.com    www.SmartAction.com

Peter got back to me...they want to, but it takes a lot of time to 
teach the system (just like it takes time to teach a human to NOT 
MAKE MISTAKES).
They are going go with client testimonials first.

I suggested they build their own FAQ, and they might later.

so the learning time is "real time"?

at least, on my mac I can work, all my friends on m$ spend their 
time updating this and that, disussic about the best antivirus, antispyware, 
anti.. anti-getting work done!

Carl is a hero too, taking his time to make something great having 
us wanting releases.. and I suspect saying no to big players wanting 
to buy him and RT

The patents that Apple have been filing over various devices like 
the iPhone have not helped them one bit in order to gain control 
over the markets they sit in. The iPhone doesn't get its attention, 
because it's patented. They say there's now going to be a patent 
case between Palm and Apple, due to Palms new very iPhone-like device, 
but I think the only ones who will gain from this, is the pocketbooks 
of the lawyers on both sides. If anything, Palm could face serious 
damage in a time where Apple needs an iPhone competitor to keep them 
on their toes.

The patent system is IMO a dinosaur and will fail anyway. I have 
11 patents. Lessons learned: Don't spend time on  filing patents, 
make the product, push yourself far ahead of competitors and always 
make better products.

I think their idea of physical stores is more amusing. They really 
have to do that right, or it will fail big time.

except Microsoft. It was more important for them to get Songsmith 
out on time.

they should probably realize, that like IBM, their time is up. (but 
like IBM, they're going to be around and profitable. just give up 
the world domination thing.)

One day people will realize, that it's a bad idea to build applications 
within a browser, and then all this browser war is over. :-) (And 
I at the same time have a feeling, there's a slight chance, I'm wrong, 
and everything will end up in browsers. I hope, it's not become that.)

I think they will never get all the different technologies playing 
together in such a smooth way. It's just to complex, hence to expensive. 
If you can provide a solution in 1/5 of time and budget, showing 
everyone it works as good or even better, youwill win.

I think, that for the sake of the world, it is a bad news, that JS 
is getting better and better. Guys trying to claim web-apps can be 
real-time, are almost true. However - hopefully no matter how they 
try, JS (web) based app will be crappy stuff even for few years coming, 
no matter how fast they get it running, as the problem is overall 
complexity of the whole web aproach ...

Geomol, can you point me to the time when people realized that Windows 
was a bad idea, or that MS Office was a bad idea, or that KDE or 
Gnome were bad ideas?

REBOL was (is) designed with its primary principle in mind, from 
the very beginning. The web served completly different purpose, and 
is patched over the time. The Web WILL win. We are now facing transition 
era, where to cover its inefficiency, ppl are producing tonnes of 
JS libraries, to make day work easier. And if it gets even more complex, 
you will get it shielded by visual tools, which will allow you to 
do web stuff more easily.

I'm going to put a proposal to Google.  What would one expect to 
pay for a full time top-notch REBOL programmer?  A web designer? 
 Some to do documentation?

Recently I've been speculating a lot, if it's a good idea, that humans 
save animals. Initially it seems like a very good idea. But fact 
is, that more than 90% of all species at any time have become extinct 
at a later time. Every time a species become extinct, it makes room 
for other species. Now if us people start to save species, that would 
else become extinct, what effect will this have over a longer time-scale?

Captachas are agains people, not bots. Bots are mostly very simple, 
especially the one which just puts links into fields. Why they would 
spend time on image analysis when they just can travel on another 
site with simple forms. fields.

Hm.. I imagine they have hard time selling Oracle if MySQL is free.. 
I wouldn't like to be mysql right now :)

It's just because it's hard to prove "never". On a structural basis 
Flash doesn't have near the potential of R3 or Silverlight, but of 
these three only Silverlight is heading towards that potential quickly. 
Only time will tell.

It's just  that I can see the end of Flash/Flex's path - it's right 
there in the system architecture. There isn't much potential left 
there, just a lot of actual. Flash isn't going to lose much of its 
installed base, not while what's there still works, but it's reaching 
the end of its potential capabilities. One federally mandated accessibility 
law and it's obsolete.


Silverlight is still advancing rapidly, and Moonlight is part of 
why. Some of the Silverlight 3 beta features are already in the Moonlight 
2 preview. By the time S3 comes out, Moonlight may be caught up. 
And Silverlight is much faster for RIAs.

Pekr, I'm glad flex costs money.  It means that  people will actively 
be working on it for a long time to come.

Paul: I didn't necessarily say VID was 3rd rate either, just that 
the experience is not all it could be.  Obviously I see merit in 
View if I take time to offer suggestions...

Paul - what is not intuitive? Just define those two so easily as 
henrik showed in your stylesheet and since that time you only use 
their names, no? :-)