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BBC BASIC v. 0.4.0 uploaded. Added procedures and local variables 
(DEF PROC, ENDPROC and LOCAL). Added TIME, RND and EVAL. Added better 
error handling. Next thing will be functions, but I'll test procedures 
some more first. The implementation is based on this user guide: 
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/bbc/doc/BBCUserGuide-1.00.pdf

John, it sounds great. I'm just totally strapped for time, or I'd 
be in there baning on it and learning from what you've done.

If I had to quickly pick an order;  REBOL, Forth, SNOBOL, Lisp.  
If I was told I HAD to do it in a class based object oriented language 
I'd probably pick SmallTalk ... no ... I'd probably just leave.  
To be honest, I've rarley seen a DSL that didn't require a programmer 
to script it anyway, so... I find the whole thing kind of moot.  
Moot is the wrong word.  A non-coder MIGHT be able to VID up a GUI 
but I doubt it would do much...or by the time they were done, the 
non-coder would have unknowningly become a coder.  I've not seen 
a DSL I'd turn over to Bob the manager to write progams in.  Even 
languages written to be specific; Erlang for telephony, Forth for 
telescopes, are still programmer languages. REBOL comes soooo close 
to being a data language that humans can use...but unfortunately 
nope;  Programmers required.  The magic all happens when you can 
build up layers, and stand on the shoulders of giants.  Something 
hardware engineers have been doing since day 1...programmers might 
learn by day 32'767 if we get lucky.  No doubt our smartest programmers 
will be fussing with strings 50 years from now with the same basic 
problems and mind sets faced 50 years ago.

I'm going to try to make time to respond on the ML later today. It's 
a good topic.

What I am going to attempt is a dialect that will respond to single 
key-strokes to tell the story of a match and at the same time capture 
the statics for the live game.  Hopefully the end result  will lead 
to many different tools based on this data such as statistics visualizations 
in the form of data summaries/reports and charts.

If this is typing in real time, space would be the best seperator,

As Robert de Niro said in one of my favorite movies of all time, 
"Analyze This"  "...hey, you...you're good!"

Just because normal people want DO in PARSE doesn't make it a good 
idea. Little girls want a pony, but it's not a good idea if they 
live in an apartment. DO in PARSE would be a feature that couldn't 
be used most of the time because of its security problems.

Brian, right, so I have to workaround all the time, write slow code 
with deep parse recursions, and all those funny and nice things. 
Or, give up and pretend REBOL was PHP.

Still parseable Rebol, but each time you switch the case it's a conceptual 
word break.

Nope, not playing.  I didnt spend much time on the roman numeral 
function, it's incidental.  Those code golfers were tweaking, I was 
writing plain and simple code.  What do you mean "roman-num"?

I also changed continue's shortcut from CO to CN because I wanted 
CO for compose.  Every time you change something it wrecks everything. 
 I know text files have their... um... way.  But I still want computers 
to step up to the plate and give every reference a UUID.  Someday...

Nope, it's just going to screw up the link.  Well that's an argument 
for another time, but here's the link to the overall question and 
you can find my solution: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2527477/code-golf-connecting-the-dots/

Please find here : http://softinnov.org/tmp/UniServe0919.zipa snapshot 
version of latest UniServe sources. It fixes some of the issues I've 
been asked about (UDP support for example). It's a beta version, 
no updated docs, no samples. ChangeLog in %uni-engine.r file. Any 
questions ? Ask them here, I'll answer as my available time permits.

That all sounds really strange, as Doc was claiming they use Uniserve 
in production for several customers or so, for quite some time ...

Pekr: I'm using uniserve as well for some time, but version 0.9.9 
I found some time to look at the version 0.9.19 now so I'm examining 
it, and must say, that's just a quick pack of some files.

I don't know what is with sessions. The uniserve seems to pretty 
good to me. I'm using it. And I think that Doc is still Reboling, 
probably just don't have so much time.

Surely you are not surprised that Doc would disappear abruptly? He 
seems to have even less time than I do.

If I had time I would have done it much before, but we ended up using 
apache and a reverse proxy setup... and that works really well.

I would most likely have a lot of that going on with TRETBASE since 
the searches could take some time to produce results.

Oh ..., I put Festival in the too hard basket long time ago :)

The forever loop is : wait [ ]. How can you provide your own one? 
Limiting bandwidth would require control of data sent per seconds 
from 'on-write UniServe's callback. That means storing a timestamp 
of last sent packet and calculating the length of next packet based 
on time passed from last sent packet and bandwidth limit.

Will... I want to make a private mp3 stream server to play music 
on a local network. So it must be solved on the server side... read 
only enough sound data from disk to play and distribute it to listeners. 
I have already the mp3 parser to get for example enough data to play 
during specified interval of time. Now it's just how to distribute 
it and don't send more data than is necessary  for the listeners.

what the prob ? if you do a wait [0.001] it should process one event 
at a time.

As long as you get any event happening before a timeout occurs, you'll 
stay in the WAIT event loop.

 - Doc - is it really correct? I am far from being guru here, but 
 it sounds strange - that would mean, that as far as there are events 
 coming, you are not allowed to quit wait, no? I think that 'wait 
 waits for either the event, or an timeout to occur. If there is any 
 kind of event on port in wait-list, 'wait return. It can either return 
 with first port with event, or, when using /all refinement, with 
 block of all ports, which have event available on them at the time 
 of return ...

just tried to add this before cheyenne starts:
do-events: does [
	forever [wait [0:0:1] print now/time/precise]
]
And from second console run:
loop 1000 [read http://localhost]


the result is, that it prints the time in every second while it serves 
the requests.

In the same time it was serving MP3 from modified micro-http service 
using something like:
    on-received: func [data][
		write-client rejoin[
			{ICY 200 OK} crlf
			{icy-name: LocalRadio} crlf
			{icy-genre: whatever} crlf
			{icy-url: http://127.0.0.1:811} crlf
			{content-type: audio/mpeg} crlf
			{icy-pub: 1} crlf
			{icy-br: 128} crlf 
			crlf
		]
		write-client path-to-mp3-file
	        close-client
    ]

Oldes: thanks for taking the time to test it. The correct behaviour 
of WAIT is the one you've described. I'm glad you've corrected me 
on that one. I'm pretty sure that I've run such tests with different 
results when working on UniServe five years ago. Maybe something 
changed in REBOL kernel since then or maybe my test script was just 
flawed. Nice to see that there's still something to learn from R2.

That feature is waiting for weeks to be implemented (need it for 
adding a mail relay agent to Cheyenne and for cron-like jobs scheduling), 
I'll give it some time this weekend.

One question Doc , I know you invested a tons of time info figuring 
out all thinks needed to make async sockets with rebol work so well, 
but..  did you ever consider using something like libevent ( http://www.monkey.org/~provos/libevent/
) or libev ( http://software.schmorp.de/pkg/libev.html) . These 
libraries are very popular with embeding in many languages ( and 
show outstanding benchmarks ) last few years after the C10K problem 
was formulated ( http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html)

but for the starters it requieres worka and time to discover if it's 
even worth it

I saw some huge graph one time as "whole HTTP spec" .. it was huge, 
and worying how complex it looked .. I will try to find it

I think QuickTime still the easiest. The only problem we have last 
time was the lack of a good micro-phone. IMO thats the most vital 
part.

As I said the problems we have last time were not related to our 
broadcasting or encoding format. It was due to our physical instruments 
(camaras, mics, and camera man).

VLC crash for the first time here.

no but I m acquiring and playing back at the same time due to the 
hour here I can't use sound

what I dislike with QT is the latency ... some time it just hangs 
we have squares on screen every where

This time a got more frames, but the image quality is really bad. 
I have a lot of 32x32 pixel color blocks...

we can make on real time subtitleling using shoutcast or send to 
audience key points

Regarding subtitling. That can be done also in Real Time with QT 
we just need a better QT-Broadcaster.

Same in QT Real Time special effects and subtittles.

We need platform coverage, real-time archiving and real-time broadcasting, 
broacast relaying, easy setup, low bw, and high quality.

One option is to provide commentary text, images and links a few 
seconds after they are shown.

For synchro skating competitions that we can't attend, we follow 
them using Team Germany's Live Ticker.
http://www.teamberlin-1.de/live_frame.php?ev=2&lang=en

This is a very slick PHP application that has photos taken at the 
arena and broadcasts them  a few seconds later.

Some dedicated fans from Germany were providing the photos (JPEGs), 
scores and bilingual (at least English and German) commentaries.

When new content is published, a message appears at the top to inform 
the viewer that it is available.

They hit the refresh hyperlink and they are up-to-date.   From the 
timestamps, our lag time to Canada was sometimes as low as 45 seconds 
after the event occurred i.e. we are getting commentary results about 
a given team's skating while they are still on the ice.

This site reports http://www.teamberlin-1.de/en/cup-of-berlin/that 
4,000 viewers followed the Berlin Cup in Jan-2005 using Live Ticker.

Maybe something like that would work for DevCon2005.

We should have a discussion forum slot and/or hack-a-solution session. 
 It will be good if we could have a project to tackle together, besides 
presenting . This could help us either build new mezz, or prototype 
some ideas. We could post ideas on what to do in the hack session 
ahead of time.

otherwise... i'll see if we can stretch the school time to 5 pm

I will probably go directly for devcon to Milan, leaving Rome visit 
for some later time once I will be rich :-) Well, I will see - I 
need to talk to Cyphre and Ladislav how do we travell. If we can 
go by one car, the expenses will be lower of course ...

it is also possible to do that after the "conference", i.e. after 
4 pm. plenty of time till night ;)

And it adds a lot of value to speed-up development time for applications.

btw, i will not send the payment request immediately. no need for 
that right now; (especially the banquet). but, please hurry if you 
want an hotel reservation! the sooner you register, the more time 
we have to arrange things and so on.

From Mario: "I think that coming in a hotel in Treviglio is cheaper. 
The return Treviglio-Milano railway ticket is around 10€ and the 
Milan 24h underground/bus/tram ticket is 3€ so DideC can save money 
as the train usually takes 30 to 45 minutes from Treviglio to Milano.


About the visit in Milano I can help for sure during the afternoon 
and evening. If there are a few people I can go with them and ttake 
them back with the car. If there are a lot of people willing to see 
Milan the days before the conference I can make a plan for Milan 
visit.


How much can be the budget for Milano tour? Leaving out the 3€ 
there are free things to visit as museums (should pay) or the castle 
(free or paid guided tour) as the Cathedral lift to see "il Duomo 
e la Madunina"...


I just need to know how much time, when, who and an aproximate budget 
per day."

2) the idea is to visit anything we can do in one day on that line. 
maybe i'll spend a day on that line before september so that i can 
have an idea of the time we have and so on.

Everyone: please don't forget to register if you want an hotel reservation. 
Time is running short.

I think it would take a little time to understand what the JavaScript 
is doing.

This link?
http://anton.wildit.net.au/rebol/os/windows/COMLib/
It seems to be up and working for me at this time.

Well, looking at the demos/excel.r file, you can see integers being 
passed in with %d in the format string.

That file worked for me last time I tried it, as I noted in the script 
header. That would have been on WinXP.

Actually I based it on your skype.r app. All it does is set the audioin 
and audioout settings. I have a Plantronics bluetooth handset and 
earpiece but it doesn't support Skype voicemail messages so every 
time I received one I had to go to the tools and switch out the audio 
to my computer speakers and back again. It also seems to cause some 
slight interference when I had to enter touchtones so I wrote this 
little gui that simply lets me change those. Nothing special but 
it is a real time saver and with the touchtones a call saver since 
you have to enter tones pretty qucikly sometimes.

If an announcement should be made, I think some time could be spent 
dwelling over the 8 years of experience gathered with the current 
design flaws in REBOL and the intent to eliminate them. how many 
other languages go through such a rewrite effort to eliminate design 
bugs?

ok, thanks anyway ... btw - talked to DocKimbel some time ago, and 
for R# he wanted two layer port model - lower level, and higher protocol 
level .... maybe just an idea, but imo Carl knows which way to go 
:-)

That was a really busy time. I could hardly keep up with all the 
testing. But it was good. :)

This probably belongs to Tech news channel, but - SkyOS got new rendering, 
buffered, which much improved performance. It was done by one man 
in a short period of time. I do hope we get more advanced compositing 
for new View too :-) http://www.skyos.org/?q=node/508

Rebol3 is going to have CLOSURE-type functions for which initialization 
may be "cheap". Example:

    c: closure [/local a] [a: 0] [a: a + 1]

The difference lies in the fact, that the behaviour would be:

    c ; == 1
    c ; == 1


, i.e. the value will be reset to initial value every time a closure 
is called.

it is quite easy to define as a mezzanine, you may either have a 
look at the implementation mentioned above or ask me to post somewhere 
a simplified version (because the one mentioned above is probably 
more complicated than you would like...). Disadvantages of my LFUNC 
are, that it needs one special "static" context created when the 
function is being defined, which costs some time, e.g.

To understand it better...
I can make a function this way to have initialisation every time:
f: func [/local a] [a: 0 a: a + 1]

CLOSURES are actually something like "more proper" functions, but 
their evaluation is "more expensive" (takes more time)

Before I answer that..

I use FUNC all the time. I almost never use FUNCTION. I guess, because 
I have to write more with FUNCTION.
I also started to use HAS and DOES, when I found those.

So the function doesn't have to initialize them every time.

don't be afraid to see just the simple aspect there: as Gabriele 
is trying to point out, Carl probably meant a situation, where you 
can at the function definition time specify the initial values of 
optional (refinement - dependent) arguments

regarding variable "modification": in all cases the variables *are* 
local to the function, but (unfortunately) FUNCs "reuse" the variables, 
while CLOSUREs "create" new variables every time you call them

i think it should be made clear that initialization is not a property 
of closures, it's just that it comes free with closures because a 
new context needs to be created each time anyway. so, since it comes 
free, should we expose that as an argument to CLOSURE?

Carl is searching for a way to add commenting to his rblog3.r script. 
How long will it take us to add this feature for him? IMO he should 
spending his time doing R3 and not enhancing blogger scripts.

my long time proposal was to get Rebol running under other virtual 
machines, as those became de-facto platforms - Java, Tao, .Net .... 
the question always is, how fast would rebol be then ....

Brian, don't worry, I won't spend much time on that. Btw, thanks 
for the cheerleading !

Don't spend too much time on the logo :)

Btw, the encapping system for Cheyenne is a little odd : to be able 
to run it in normal mode and encap mode without changing the source 
code, I wrote a special lib emulating the filesystem but in memory. 
I didn't had time yet to check if Ladislav's Include could do the 
job. My encapping system needs to generate a .encap-fs file, so it 
needs that Cheyenne be run in normal mode at least once. I'll document 
that in a few days.

heh, I have got crash with latest version:

[uniserve] Async Protocol FastCGI loaded
[uniserve] Starting task-master...
[uniserve] Starting HTTPd...
make object! [
    code: 312
    type: 'script
    id: 'cannot-use
    arg1: 'add
    arg2: 'time!
    arg3: none
    near: [time: time + port/timeout
        if
    ]
    where: 'close-expired
]


I run Apache on port 80, so I changed httpd to 8080 ... sinmple CGI 
works, I logged into application OK, simple page worked, 4 RSP test 
crashed with above error ...

I didn't had much time to work on an internal API for live changes 
in Cheyenne, but, in theory, you should be able to reload the entire 
Cheyenne and Uniserve engine without restarting and without loosing 
opened connections.

Doc, at the moment the best approach is to use RebServices via CGI 
(so that it can be used from behind firewalls & proxies). But CGI 
spawns a new process each time and RebServices isn't FastCGI aware 
at the moment.


Hence my idea, if we can tweak a bit and keep RebService running 
on the server but still use the CGI interface to access it. As Cheyenne 
is all Rebol code I thought it should be simple to integrate RebService 
either into Cheyenne or include a nice interface.

doc, make sure you set aside some time this weekend. you know, for 
things. ;)

I didn't had time to follow the discussion about that in the QM channel, 
so I don't know...

re 2005 version: you're don't need to use do-sql if you don't want 
to. You can do it as usual by opening connection, sending query...closing 
connection. do-sql is just a higher level wrapper to save you some 
time.

Doc, is possible to integrate a different DB backend? I'm using SQLite 
now most of the time. Would be cool to use it with Cheyenne as well.

Well that's good news.  That probably means it's just some setting, 
or weirdo config at

this end.  And thanks for taking the time to try.  Knowing that it 
can work, will give me
the incentive to dig in...

Reichart, you can eat into someone else's time. :)

Pekr, rebol would not have any control over that. The OS decides 
when it's time to do REBOL stuff

I don't think I'im talking yet.  I will be back at 10:00a (my time) 
which is 7:00 thier time...so I assume not.

pekr, copies the body.  so we don't need to do val: copy [] all the 
time.

*time

Running 1 hour 45 minutes over time.. :)

geomol, Carl went 45 minutes over time in the last session, I don't 
think he'll be talking more today

last time i have asked, speechs are not going to be skipped, but 
just shrinked

that was not my question :-) The thing is, that when you launch 100 
thread for one process, you get just 1 time for your process, which 
you will divide to those 100 REBOL tasks = threads internally.

imo those 5 separate processes get more time from OS ...

actually I think that logically 5 separate tasks will handle more 
connections, as that is 5 tasks getting OS time, instead of 1 task 
getting OS time out of tens of other OS tasks running ... :-)

I think that the OS does a fair dispatch of time between all threads 
(of same priority).

Rebolinth....The schedule is here:
http://devcon2007.rebdocproj.org/schedule.html
I don't know of any changes to it -- yet.

The conference starts in 10 minutes, at least in theory. Ladislav 
and I have arrived on time :-)

btw..does the Qt stream work? I mean was it only the whole time yesterday? 
and how is the sound?

We know about 5-10 of us were pulling at the same time.

(btw guys, please keep in mind our time is limited ;)

hey riechart, you stole time to Carl ;)

Petr, yes, in the SDK, but primitive right now, in about 2 weeks 
we start teh big Doc push, and will be hiring a full time WRANGLER 
to handle developers and the docs.