AltME groups: search

Please do put them on REBOL.org! No bookmarks in AltME yet, and others 
will find them there.  Wish I had time to play with them right now!

;define-method creates a "fingerprint" for each parameter-spec
;and evals corresponding code according to "fingerprint"
define-method f [x: integer!] [x + 1]
define-method f [s: block!] [attempt [pick s 2]]
define-method f [x: decimal!] [sine x]

>> f[1] == 2
>> f[[one two three]] == two
>> b: [one two three]
>> f[b] == two
>> f[90.0] == 1.0

;instrospection one can always see the methods of a function
>> f-methods?
[integer!] -> [x + 1]
[block!] -> [attempt [pick s 2]]
[decimal!] -> [sine x]

;singleton parameter specs are posible.
;This allows for "rule" based programming
define-method fact [n: 0] [1]
define-method fact [n: integer!][n * fact[n - 1]]

>> fact-methods? 
[0] -> [1]
[integer!] -> [n * fact [n - 1]]


define-method fact-memoize [n: 0] [1]
define-method fact-memoize [n: integer! /local r ][
	r: n * fact[n - 1]
	define-method fact-memoize compose [n: (:n)] reduce [r]
	r
]

>> time-it [fact[12]] == 0:00:00.000434         ;no memoization

>> time-it [fact-memoize[12]] == 0:00:00.000583 ;first invoication
>> time-it [fact-memoize[12]] == 0:00:00.000087 ;cache lookup

;dispatch for undefined type signals error
>> fact[1.0] 
** User Error: Don't have a method to handle: [decimal!]
** Near: fact [1.0]


;moization is more dramatic when calculating the fibonacci sequence
define-method fib [n: 1] [1]
define-method fib [n: 2] [1]
define-method fib [n: integer!][ add fib[n - 2] fib[n - 1] ]

define-method fib-memoize [n: 1] [1]
define-method fib-memoize [n: 2] [1]
define-method fib-memoize [n: integer! /local r][
	r: add fib-memoize[n - 1] fib-memoize[n - 2]
	define-method fib-memoize compose [n: (:n)] reduce [r]
	r
]

;without memoization
>> time-it [fib [20]] == 0:00:00.32601
>> time-it [fib [19]] == 0:00:00.207066

;dramatic gains due to memoization
>> time-it [fib-memoize[20]] == 0:00:00.002187 ;first invoication
>> time-it [fib-memoize[20]] == 0:00:00.000096 ;cache lookup
>> time-it [fib-memoize[19]] == 0:00:00.0001   ;cache lookup

;it is possible to overload some natives!
define-method add [x: issue! y: issue!][join x y]
add[1 1] == 2
add[1.0.0 1] == 2.1.1
add[#abc #def] == #abcdef

Louis, I had a similar problem earlier this week.
It might be a firewall issue: try
system/schemes/ftp/passive: true


In the case I looked at, it seems to be just cruft build-up.....Many 
things are not working on that machine, and FTP has now broken too. 
We "solved" the problem by installing SmartFTP -- it works every 
2nd time you run it on that machine.

how to  enlarge the time of expectation on connection ?

how do to check  loam time it will to flow away when port opens ?

gm: func [port][reform ["timeout:" get-modes port 'timeout]]

handler: func [port action arg /local cmd send time] [ 
	time: now/time/precise
	switch action [ 
		init    [
			print [time gm port "--- init"]
			set-modes port [timeout: 0:00:05] ; five seconds
		]
		address [print [time gm port "--- address lookup: " arg]]
		open    [print [time gm port "--- open:" now/precise]]
		close   [print [time gm port "--- close"] close port]

  error   [print [time gm port "-- error:" mold disarm :arg] close 
  port]
	]
]

check: func [p h][
	open/direct/binary/async  join tcp://  [ p ":" h ]  :handler
]

check 219.147.198.195 1080

Hello;

  I'm wondering if there is a more efficeint way to assign values directly 
  to a block of  variables.  My example involves reading lines from 
  a file and assigning them one at a time to each variable.  Here is 
  the line format:


LineFormat: [DateStr Manufacturer MF_Part TD_Part Desc Price1 Price2 
Retail Stock Misc]

Data: read/lines Filename
Str: first Data

Then I go though the String 'Str' and do the assigns

      DateStr: First Str
      Manufacturer: Second Str
      MF_Part: Third Str
      TD_Part: Fourth Str
      Desc: Fifth str
      Price1: skip Str 5
      Price2: skip Str 6
      Retail: skip Str 7
      QOH: skip Str 8
      Misc: skip Str 9


Am I missing something obvious about assigning one block of  values 
to another block of  variables?

REBOL [Title: "proxy multiple" ] 

print "start-multiple"
 list: []

proxy: make object! [ host: 24.186.191.254
                      port-id: 29992 ]

ph: func [port][ switch port/locals/events [
                          
                          connect [insert tail list  port

                                   ping: to-integer (now/time - port/date ) * 1000 
                                   port/date: now/time

                                   print [ "open   ping: " ping ]  ]

                          close [ remove find list port
                                  init

                                  ping: (now/time - port/date ) * 1000 

                                   print ["close   ping: " ping ] close port ]

                                                ]


false ]



stop: func [] [ clear system/ports/wait-list
               forall list [close first list ]]

init: func [ /local port ][ port: make port! [ scheme: 'atcp
                                               host: proxy/host

                                               port-id: proxy/port-id
                                               awake: :ph 
                                               date: now/time ]

                            open/no-wait/binary  port


                            insert tail system/ports/wait-list  port ]



set: func [ h p ] [ proxy/host: h
                    proxy/port-id: p ]
                          

send: func [ port ][ port/date: now/time

insert port join  #{0401} [debase/base  skip to-hex 80 4 16 to-binary 
193.238.73.117 #{00}] ]

>> init
** User Error: No network server for atcp is specified
** Near: port: make port! [scheme: 'atcp
    host: proxy/host
    port-id: proxy/port-id
    awake: :ph
    date: now/time]
open/no-wait/binary
>>

You could probably just disconnect the serial cable physically, then 
scan for hardware changes... can save time later on maybe..

>> to-itime/precise now/time
== "06:39:2.0"

bad
>> to-itime/precise now/time
== "13:47:0.0"

worse
>> to-itime/precise now/time/precise
== "13:46:4E-2"

The only time I use FOR today is when I need to:
	a) start at a number other than 1
	b) step by a increment other than one.
	c) brevity and clarity is more important than performance.

this is a great example. at this time I'm going to be moving bounces 
into another mailbox instead of deleting them as I need them for 
forensic evidence. We have just received word that the ISP is forcing 
the subscriber offline as the spam constitues a breach of contract

this is very strange... I get a whole range of different random errors: 
time outs, connection refused, commands not understood

I have that problem all the time with having to write

	first find series val

as:

	if f: find series val [f: first f]

Henrik: your wish looks unnatural, I prefer the following:

    default [index? find [a b c] 'd] [none]


the Default function is available and it has been in Rambo for quite 
some time

That is true but that just means that it may not be the way you want 
to handle it.  I think Ladislav is correct here.  In some situations 
it may not be bad to continue with a bad index value but I think 
the majority of the time then you need to cancel what you are doing 
if the index is not available, hence an error.

The only time I've found it useful to use index is when using values 
in one series as a key to values in another series. Kind of rare 
when you have select/skip, but sometimes you don't want to modify 
the data series. All right, since RAMBO says that there are problems 
with select/skip right now, maybe not so rare.

One time I created a nice program that would go out and check backups 
on the servers.  Because it was an executable file they got rid of 
the system - even though it was better than anything else we had.

the only time i trap about that bug is when i do a script i did before, 
thus overwriting the loading function.

Hope with your bug-example Carl has an easy (and thus quick) time 
to fix it :)

I believe, since you can expect the crash to be fixed some time in 
the future, that the solution is to provide both versions of the 
function, the fast, vulnerable version commented, and a note explaining 
when to switch from the slow, safe version to the fast, vulnerable 
version (preferably with test code to prove if your interpreter has 
the crash or not).

I don't think, it's initially possible to check, if a certain script 
has been loaded or not. One approach, that is often seen in C includes, 
is to have a big 'if' in the script around all the code there, which 
checks on a define, and inside the 'if' define the thing being checked 
on.


I'm searching for a good 'include' myself from time to time. One 
where it's possible to include something without full path. Maybe 
variables like system/options/path, system/options/home or system/options/boot 
should be used.

Great then I will use include/check as the default usage and may 
save some slow file access time in sub-modules.  Thanks again.

well, I wrote a function a while ago, which is pretty speedy for 
this purpose. I used it for real-time elimination of names in a list

Ahh, I see ... most of the time I try things like 

>> del <tab><tab> to see if there are other words like the one which 
_just_ does not do the job, but I forgot it this time. :-)

yes, that is true, I wrote a similar example to my Bindology article 
quite some time ago, where it was "clashing" with recursion. Here 
it is a problem even without recursion

(or machine time optimization at the cost of human time?)

It can take a lot of time to find the problem of your code is not 
logic but a side effect of the language implementation.

My view is that Carl made this a conscious choice, knowing that advanced 
users could do their own copy/deep when they need to, and it won't 
come up most of the time anyway.

I would probably stop using CONTEXT with this change.


I may not be a newbie, but I don't see how this behavior is different 
from the way blocks that aren't explicitly copied are shared throughout 
REBOL. Once you learn this gotcha once (like, the first time you 
make a function with a local block), you have learned it throughout. 
There are always workarounds, and the default behavior can be extremely 
useful if you are expecting it.

The only time it can get tricky is when sharing parse rules. The 
way I work around that is to encapsulate them in a shared object, 
but occassionally it can cause a problem (simultaneous parsing) that 
only copying can help with.

>> x: now/time/precise loop 10000000 [true and true] probe now/time/precise 
- x
0:00:03.39

>> x: now/time/precise loop 10000000 [and~ true true] probe now/time/precise 
- x
0:00:05.188

Not any time soon.

not sure ... but maybe Genesi sponsored some of Carl's time and convinced 
him it might be important for them to have Rebol ... then Rebol for 
Genesi might be an enabler ...

Well, I can't recall the last time I needed to negate something.

The word browser is nice, but I spend most of my time in the console. 
 How about a man command that looks up the manual pages on the net, 
and dumps them to the console?

interesting questions, unfortunately not having time to answer any

So if you wanna check for exactly one time -1, you write [1 1 -1].

hi all, this is an "old" issue Graham: it is in REP for quite a long 
time

he said (a few days ago), that he will arrange for some uninterrupted 
time at the DevCon with me to hear my suggestions, so this is one 
more to remind him

it might be easier to to a parse/all txt #" " and then build up the 
lines one at a time.

Sorry, I've been overwhelmed with school beauracracy and other concerns. 
I haven't had time to compose my thoughts.

It looks like it has been repaired around the time you finally gave 
up ;-)

On a (slightly) different note, has anyone tried to implement incremental 
parsing with parse? Last time I tried something like continuations, 
but there must be a better way...

I don't know .. I am just looking at sample data and trying to reverse 
engineer the format as I don't have time to read 100s of pages of 
specs.

I used to parse HL7 messages differently ... splitting them  into 
fields as well.  But this time I thought I 'd try a rule based approach.

Yes, it reply == false after some time here too.

Notice that °Sunnylane° and °Person° are themselves °7°s?  This means 
that more information is available regarding them.. ie:

°Sunnylane: last time paved?° 
or 
°Sunnylane: set last time paved -=24-Oct-2001=-°


Because °Mr. Smith° is a °Person°, we could make a query like.. °Mr. 
Smith: requires food to survive?°  and have the system respond "Yes."

this is not entirely related, I think (I'm only a bit above beginner's 
level, so I may not be understanding your problem right) but I wrote 
a tool some time ago called Tester. It allows you to write code and 
test it directly without leaving the environment. This is not an 
editor per se, but a rigid workflow tool to write and test code. 
You can read about it in the !Tester group.

I can't say I've been 'using' Rebol for long, but I've been playing 
for quite a while now.  I discover something new every time I open 
up the system.  It's too cool how RT has put something as wide and 
deep as the ocean into a cup, a cup with blinking lights no less.

I feel its the most productive language out there.  not in how powerfull 
it CAN get but in how productive it IS from the onset of the very 
first time you use it.

DSLs have been around for a long time.

You mean 'digit vs 'chars-n?  I've been using the latter for some 
time, mainly for consistency.  I'm going to migrate to more common 
names where there is a precedent.

What may happen, is people (kids for example) would begin hacking 
old Basic applications rewritten in Rebol, to show off.

100 lines of Basic becoming 7 lines of Rebol for example.


There is a group of people hacking Nintendo emulators with a program 
that emulates the joystick, and attempt to play games in the shortest 
time possible.  It is very interesting, but why these types of things 
take off is that people can have fun, and without too much knowledge, 
show off their talents.

This Basic dialect parse in block mode, and this set some restrictions 
on the syntax, but it's probably faster and easier to program the 
parse rules. To make a QBasic would require, I used string parsing. 
Probably the same for most other languages. Unfortunately I don't 
have much time for this project atm., because I have 3 examins in 
the coming week, and after that I'm on vacation for 2 weeks. But 
I would like ot do more of this. Maybe we could make a real project 
with some goals!?

i think, time would better be invested in an OS (both for geeks, 
and non-geeks). then you can make cheap computers for the OS to run, 
once it has been recognized, so parents could buy a $100 computer 
to childs (one each) instead of one big $1000 pc for the family.

hopefully Carl knows threads headaches (I do remember his long time 
ago post to ml :-) .... and will do it the right way ...

Google - the funny point here is: They say code in java, compile 
to javascript. The first time i see it that way around. Till now 
i heard "use scripting to get it running, use java/c for big things/speed". 
Javascript must be really awfull :)

I am not sure it is true anymore, but we noticed it developing our 
ccd camera few years ago ... OS simply waits with ACK defined period 
of time or simply to receive second packet, then it confirm both 
.... Ethereal will give you an answer :-)

if a thread has to wait for another, then you're just wasting time 
and creating problems with threads.

But a parralel processed image looks the same all the time, or the 
processing of a big matrix. Still deterministic. Whatever happens 
inside the box.

Gabriele, using threading only computation  with no overlaps is limiting 
concurrency to one problem space. If that is the case then why add 
TASKs to Rebol, when we have already processes.  The only advantage 
will be memory use, and context switching time, but not extra gains.

Volker, The fact that events can arrive at any given time doesn't 
mean that you can not have deterministic paralellel computation.

No, i want my program to have s much determinism as needed. I call 
"perfect determinism" when i know "this stuff is done on cpu3, then 
the other thing a bit later on cpu4". That is perfectly repeatable. 
But that is not what i need. "this stuff is done on the next free 
cpu" is enough. But to do that, i need a language which can determine 
what this next free cpu is. And for that i need a general purpose 
language (counting cpus, acountig used time, priorities etc). While 
you said general purpose is not needed for a coordination language. 
But maybe i miss simething, maybe coordination means something different?

pekr, the drives themselves are OK, but the OS'es handle them badly. 
If I under MacOSX store some files on the drive and eject the drive 
as I properly should, the files are just not present on the drive 
according to WinXP, as if the ejection procedure didn't sync files 
to disk. Half the time, they don't work under Linux without hours 
of fiddling and most win98 machines won't handle them at all. Data 
transfer between machines is probably successful about 50% of the 
time.

An internet connection is, for me, a much more reliable way to get 
data onto a machine. It's probably the syncing aspect that makes 
them so unreliable.

I don't waste any more time on USB drives :-)

maybe there is some setting for that, dunno .... Windows denerves 
me sometimes with so called - rought czech translation - delayed 
write was not successfull. Not sure how it happens, but somewhere 
deep in your profile there is a dir for such a feature, and if there 
is some file, you can see annoying messages each time Windows starts.

Henrik - did you do your homework this time, really? Win98 needs 
drivers, so what? 1) throw away PC using W98 :-) 2) Install your 
driver once, and it works like WXP next time, that is all. Had no 
problem with my old Fedora Core 1 and my 2 USBs, never hear of that 
"works half the time under Linux"

so slow, that using it as a rich client environment would denerve 
me after some short period of time :-) Give me plug-in :-)

>> s: 0 t: now/time/precise foreach js [
[    "/zkdemo/zkau/web/js/ext/prototype/prototype.js"
[    "/zkdemo/zkau/web/js/ext/aculo/effects.js"
[    "/zkdemo/zkau/web/js/ext/aculo/dragdrop.js"
[    "/zkdemo/zkau/web/js/zk/html/boot.js"
[    "/zkdemo/zkau/web/js/zk/html/lang/mesg.js"
[    "/zkdemo/zkau/web/js/zk/html/common.js"
[    "/zkdemo/zkau/web/js/zk/html/au.js"
[    "/zkdemo/zkau/web/js/zk/datelabel.js.dsp"
[    ][s: s + length? read join http://www.potix.comjs]
== 144313

>> print ["total js size:" s "downloaded in:" now/time/precise - 
t]
total js size: 144313 downloaded in: 0:00:07.406

Gates to work 'part-time' in MS by 2008.
Ozzie step up to be Chief Software Architect.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060616/tc_nm/microsoft_dc_8

You want the billion $ idea for digi-cams?


Add a SLIM and BEAUTIFY button that will alter the taken pictures 
in real-time.

Are there any widgets that have transformed the online habits of 
anyone here?


1) Customizable real-time stock price monitor ... significantly faster 
and more versatile than traditional website equivalents.

2) Broadband usage monitor - aggregates several metrics into a simple 
display.


Widgets that are well-designed focus on solving a specific [informational] 
need. The advantages they have over traditional websites with the 
same content are:

a) Immediacy
b) Conciseness
c) Customizable

my long time experience - since the times of amiga, is, that if it 
catches your eye, you have already won typical user's attention. 
Sadly, but the rest is often "a technical detail". We miss some gfx 
guys here, as Chris is surely pressed for the time. View engine is 
created for non-typical designs, yet we were not successfull in utilising 
it ...

you are kidding, no? how can be Ajax and css easier to produce? in 
CSS you have to do it nearly manually (you said so to me some time 
ago :-)

so finally time for scripting?

Not quite a news but IMO quite interesting: lukfil writes "We all 
know of floating point numbers, so much so that we reach for them 
each time we write code that does math. But do we ever stop to think 
what goes on inside that floating point unit and whether we can really 
trust it?"  http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/12335059/article.pl

I don't know. I use IM, IRC and AltME way more than email. For me, 
email is a rather clunky communications tool. It seems to me that 
for many people, IM requires you to be at the computer all the time, 
which of course it doesn't. I guess it's heritage from the even older 
phone era. :-)

It's easy. I made some tools for my Linksys access point, which could 
only read out signal strength about once every 30 seconds with reloading 
the webpage on its internal webserver. By using REBOL and telnet 
access on it, I could get a real time graph for the same thing. It's 
even less stressful and requires less bandwidth for the access point. 
There must be many other things that can be improved like that.

We use TeamSpeak still,  it works about 85% of the time, and with 
about 85% of people.  For example Europe gets messed up sometimes.

IBM, in that regard, even if they sold their PC business, has much 
more broader aproach ...

Pekr, I will try to answer from a marketing perspective.


Your statement suggest that a company with a broad based approach 
(diversified) in various markets is better than one with a narrow, 
focused approach.


My own study of companies suggest otherwise. I believe General Electric 
is one such case study. Throughout the 80s, they have acquired many 
companies across many industries, today... they have sell off a lot 
of the units that they have acquired.


Same goes with IBM. IBM is divesting their assets in a suitable time 
frame. They still have a 'broader approach' because of legacy baggages 
that they have not discard.


In fact, most companies that leads in their market segment do so 
because they are focused (during that time). SUN was focused on UNIX 
; Apollo did not.

MS was focused on PC; IBM says from mainframe to midrange to workstation 
to home PC....ironically MS is losing focus (do you think MS will 
win in the various new markets?)


It is not whether IBM has a broader approach that matters; it is 
about how fast IBM can reduce the excess baggages that it has acquired 
throughout the years.


SUN, in my opinion, is more focused than IBM now. At least , to me.... 
they own the 'datacenter' mindshare.


Corporates strategies facinates me. 2 of the most (fatal) management 
theories :

- diversifcation; why diversify when your core market is fragmenting...shouldn't 
you focus on one fragments instead? 

- convergence; eg. AOL-Netscape-TimeWarner...why do companies believe 
that different categories of business are coming together and not 
dividing further?


I, too make the mistakes above...and needs to clean up my 'business 
wardrobe'.

SGI was the undisputed leader in gfx and for some time had  very 
compelling and diffrentiated servers.

Bill Buck having a good time and enjoying blogging :-) Today a bit 
about Amiga, Carl, VisCorp, new ideas etc. - http://bbrv.blogspot.com/

I won't do that, but if someone has time to spare, do that and post 
them on message boards which talk about this scripting language.

...but doesn't View have the potential to offer better performance 
than JavaScript frameworks such as Tibco and dojo. (And from what 
I see time taken to download of View is not significantly different 
from that to download a JavaScript framework).

I have been hopping for multi keyboard, mutli-mic input on one screen 
for long time..

I wonder why it took so long for someone to do this. Isn't it obvious 
that multiple mice would be usefull in many cases.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2006/dec06/12-14MultiPoint.mspx

Tao is really powerfull.  being a real time OS it can do things like 
guarantee bitrates and synchronise parrallel processes on two different 
machines!

you can literally move a process from one machine to another in real 
time, while both are running, and refreshing half of a window on 
each monitor for example!

I'm not so sure about that. I think, you were right the first time, 
Maxim. Tao Elate is a realtime OS, so is QNX.

I'm in two minds regarding gravity. All my logic and understanding 
tells me, that Einstein was right, when he said, that gravity is 
curvation of space-time. Then gravity is not a field like electro-magnetism 
(light) and the other natural forces (strong and weak kernel forces), 
and there's not a particle (which are actually waves) called a graviton, 
like we have fotons, gluons, Z0 and W+-, whose are responsible for 
transfering the forces. But I really really hope, I'm wrong, so that 
antigravity can be reality one day.


The spacecraft Gravity Probe B was finished collecting data almost 
two years ago, and results should have been published last year, 
but they wasn't! There's something wrong with the data. They might 
come to some very interesting results: http://einstein.stanford.edu/


CERN are upgrading their accelerator, and they should start some 
new experiments this year, where they hope to find the Higgs boson 
and maybe the graviton. I'll be very surprised, if they find the 
graviton. I don't know enough about the Higgs boson to have an opinion 
on that.

But it's exciting times! :-)

Terry: I'm about to release a new version of Cheyenne with a redesigned 
and more reliable RSP engine. I've also started documenting the RSP 
API and features (takes much more time than I expected).

I haven't delved deep enough to understand if this'd be better written 
as a Cheyenne handler, though that would require forking the cgi 
script, which for the time being, also has to run under Apache.

Cheering squad: Give us a "C", give us an "h" ... Go "Chris"  


On a more serious note.  I've offered to help design/beta trial REBOL 
Want Ads.  QuarterMaster seems

like a candidate for this.  There isn't any time pressure, as this 
will take a while, but what is your gut feel for Cheyenne support? 
 From reading !Cheyenne you seem to have got a workable solution 
to get at the REQUEST-URI functionality?  Or was that just me reading 
with rose-coloured glasses?


Just FYI, the very first cut is going to be a blog.r test.  But I 
think rebols would appreciate a little more.

Thanks again by the way.

Chris, sorry to not have chimed in before, I have a quite modified 
cheyenne that is in production for some time, only I have little 
time to help as I'm evely under pressur, somu guys came up with joomla 
in the company I work for, so it's either me coding from 0 or them 
assempling  jomla modules.. I could clean it up and send u a copy 
but this will be obsoleted by Dockimbel next version. it has rewrite 
rules and a slightly modified mysql protocol and a hihly modified 
mysql wrapper  to support stored procedures and getting data easly. 
like database: mysq://localhost/dbName db-open value: db-get 'table 
'column [{id=?} variable ] .

Could be.  Yep.  It is guru time.  Keep posting.   Try the Mailing 
List too.

thak you brian for the help 8-) time to go sleep here 6AM.. have 
a great day!

No rush...code is better use of time of course.

This is all just promotional...  :)  I should have added my smiley 
the first time.

Cheerleading...I'll have to learn some way of not making it distracting 
to the key
players.  :)  Go Doc Go!