AltME groups: search

brk(0)                                  = 0x8198000
brk(0x81bf000)                          = 0x81bf000
brk(0)                                  = 0x81bf000
brk(0)                                  = 0x81bf000
brk(0x81b7000)                          = 0x81b7000
brk(0)                                  = 0x81b7000
brk(0)                                  = 0x81b7000
brk(0)                                  = 0x81b7000
brk(0x81b4000)                          = 0x81b4000
brk(0)                                  = 0x81b4000
brk(0)                                  = 0x81b4000
brk(0)                                  = 0x81b4000
brk(0x81b2000)                          = 0x81b2000
brk(0)                                  = 0x81b2000
gettimeofday({1105173012, 808275}, NULL) = 0
time([1105173012])                      = 1105173012
brk(0)                                  = 0x81b2000
brk(0x81d5000)                          = 0x81d5000

gettimeofday({1105173013, 751}, NULL)   = 0
time([1105173013])                      = 1105173013
;writes

gettimeofday({1105173013, 16049}, NULL) = 0
time([1105173013])                      = 1105173013
;writes

stat64("/home/volker/d/t/rebol.r", 0xbffff11c) = -1 ENOENT (No such 
file or directory)

stat64("/home/volker/rebol.r", 0xbffff11c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file 
or directory)

stat64("/home/volker/d/t/user.r", 0xbffff11c) = -1 ENOENT (No such 
file or directory)

stat64("/home/volker/user.r", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=3086, 
...}) = 0
time([1105173013])                      = 1105173013
open("/home/volker/user.r", O_RDONLY)   = 8
fstat64(8, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=3086, ...}) = 0
time([1105173013])                      = 1105173013
read(8, "REBOL [\n    Title: \"%~/user.r\" \n"..., 3086) = 3086
close(8)                                = 0

But I would like to stress-test by starting several rebol sessions 
to compete for the same keys at (hopefully) the same time.

Red icons ...usually a problem with syncing when Daylight Saving 
Time goes on or off.

reset-dates.r utility available from RT to correct them (doesn't 
always work).

Sunanda - but t hat problem of bad syncing happens only on certain 
systems. Here in CZ for most or all Win versions ... bad timezone 
or something must be the reason. I remember RT stating Win98 returned 
incorrect (shifted) time-stamp under some conditions, but that is 
not only W98 related imo ...

DIR?  -  This function, useful as it is, is confusing, because it 
is not obvious that it goes to the filesystem or network to check. 
Perhaps it should be called EXISTS-DIR?

I also feel the lack of a function just to see if a file or url ends 
with a slash. If you work with the filesystem at all you quickly 
find yourself checking for final slashes all the time. Here is my 
latest way of detecting that:
#"/" = pick tail file -1

That sure is ugly to put into code all the time, and I keep wishing 
this is what DIR? would do.

I understand that there is probably a huge body of code that would 
be adversely affected by this renaming, so I am looking for a nice 
short name. So far I thought of DIR-SPEC?  (ie. "does this file have 
the specification of a dir ?") but....

You should usually search the rambo database to see if it hasn't 
been submitted already, and also check here before submitting, unless 
you are really pressed for time.

However, I keep bumping into this problem and so it wastes my time 
continually. I also imagine it's a small confusion for beginners.

Here's another bug:

BUG: using DETECT (instead of ENGAGE) is unreliable with stopping 
time events, as in this example:

lay: layout [btn "start" [lay/rate: 1 show lay] btn "stop" [lay/rate: 
none show lay]] lay/feel: make lay/feel [detect: func [face event][if 
event/type = 'time [print ['tick now/precise lay/rate]] event]] view 
lay
p: open http://www.rebol.com
close p
view lay

I've got this rule to parse email headers which only works some of 
the time.

				header-rule: [
					thru "^/Date:" copy m-date to newline |
					thru "^/From:" copy m-from to newline |
					thru "^/Subject:" copy m-subject to newline |
					thru "^/To:" copy m-to to newline |
					thru "^/Return-path: "
				]
				m-subject: m-date: m-from: m-to: none

				parse header [some header-rule]

I am not totatly against REs I use them all the time in shells, and 
having them built in would make writing "work alike" programs easier 
but over all , it  seems to me like a step down

this header-rule should now be applied each time I get  a "^/" ...

sweet, all my tests pass now. Time to add more tests :-)

view lay: layout[
 button "title-time" 300[
  lay/text: form now lay/changes: 'text show lay
 ]
]

The SDK license is a pretty kewl one last time I looked at it.  You 
get the version that is currently available and free upgrades for 
12 months...

Anyone know the timeline for a rollout of the SDK builds.  Also, 
need to know if its going to cost anything.  I am approaching a point 
in my programming where I could add some features from the /library 
components but probably wont if it is going to take time or be expensive. 
 My project is not for money - freebie so any information is appreciated.

Good place to discuss a remote encapping service? The idea would 
be for RT to provide a service that would allow you to encap source 
code without the SDK. RT encaps your files and provides you with 
an executable that works for 5 minutes. If you pay a fee (5$?), you'll 
get no time limitation.


This could be for people who can't afford the SDK, want to use the 
encap facility to see what it's all about or simply only need to 
encap a single application.

Carl can do anything given sufficient reason/time

Ashley - as Graham said - use Base/Face ... include your mezzanines. 
Most of the time they will be compatible

Most of the GUI work I do does not use VID or networking, so enface 
without any of the view-* or prot-* scripts is what I want. I do 
not want to use a loader front-end based on rebview that includes 
all this code. The cost in executable size may be small (less than 
100Kb), but it's the start-up time and memory cost that I like to 
get as lean as possible. This will become more of an issue if and 
when REBOL is ported to small memory footprint devices.

time to sleep, 0:41 here and I don't believe rebol has already fixed 
timezone problem, so actually who knows what is the correct time 
:-)

From my quick tests the C version of convolve is about 15-25 times 
fater than the rebcode version. But this doesn't mean that rebcode 
is always 20time slower. It depends on the application imo.

is blitting using just new/faster routines, or has in anything in 
common internally with how fast you can enter event loop (time wise), 
to call 'show?

hey ashkey good to see you online at the same time than me

G4C TUT_MCListview

// ===========================================================
// A Multi Column (or Database) Listview..
// ===========================================================

WINDOW 126 90 367 373 "Listview"
	winattr style resize

xOnLoad
	// add some records to the listview & open..
	gosub #this AddRecords
	guiopen #this

xOnClose
	guiquit #this

// ===========================================================
// The listview
// - This is a normal MULTISELECT listview (the default).
// For this type to be triggered, you must double-click it.
// ===========================================================

XLISTVIEW 0 0 0 0 'The Title' "" var

	attr ID mylv
	attr resize 0022
	attr frame sunk

	// Give it a grid and allow the user to drag, drop & re-arrange
	// the lines - You can add more styles here..
	attr style grid/arrange/drag/drop/arrange

	// Add some columns. The first one we state with a '#'
	// in front to indicate we mean the 1st column.
	attr LVCOLUMN '#Item/width/120/TITLE/Description'

 attr LVCOLUMN 'Units/width/60/TITLE/Units/TYPE/number/JUSTIFY/RIGHT'

 attr LVCOLUMN 'Amount/width/60/TITLE/Amount/TYPE/number/JUSTIFY/RIGHT'

 attr LVCOLUMN 'Total/width/60/TITLE/Total/TYPE/number/JUSTIFY/RIGHT'

	// show the line double clicked..

 SetWinTitle #this 'SUM: $%Units x $%Amount = $($%Units * $%Amount)'


// ===========================================================
// This is a routine to add 100 records with various
// meaningless values to the above listview. Note how
// the fields can be used as normal variables.
// ===========================================================

xRoutine AddRecords
	local c

	use lv #this mylv

	// before we start, we HIDE the listview. This will
	// stop Gui4Cli from visually refreshing it every time
	// we add a record and will GREATLY increase the speed.
	// This will have no effect if the window is closed.
	// After we finish, we show it again..
	setevent #this mylv HIDE

	for c 0 100
		// add an empty record..
		lv add ''

		// Fill the fields with various values..
		%Item   = "This is Item $c"
		%Units  = $($c * 3)
		%Amount = $(($%Units / 2)*1000)
		%Total  = $($%Units * $%Amount)

	endfor

	// Show the listview again, refreshing the display..
	setevent #this mylv SHOW

// ===========================================================
// Right mouse button handling - Some menu choices..
// ===========================================================

xOnRMB


 QuickMenu -1 -1 'Select All/Remove selected/Add 100 records/#sepa/cancel'
	use lv #this mylv
	docase $$choice
		case = 0			// Select All
			lv select all
			break
		case = 1			// Remove selected
			lv delete selected
			break
		case = 2			// Add some records..
			gosub #this AddRecords
	endcase

apporting code to any project is hard I understand this but a first 
step (what I try to do ) is to apport yet existing bunch of code 
that are fitted to REBGUI Ashley takes then the role of merger and 
last adapter. I hope this free some time for him  to focus on work 
of the engine.

you can't at the same time search for yet existent widget try to 
adapt them and in the same time try to work on the enhancement of 
the engine ;)

I, for example, am working on porting my drop-down style and at the 
same time working on adding a refinement to Display to handle modal 
auto-closing dialogs...

Global Event System: looks like 'menu has to use it, and I don't 
know if we have a real alternative. One thing I've added to 0.1.8 
is a 'keep function that lets you specify what widgets you wish to 
use and sets to none everything not used by those widgets ... so 
if more complex widgets require global events then so be it.


Contributed code: I prefer simple code (that may need to be enhanced) 
over complex code (that may have to be pruned).


Multi-tasking: The RebGUI engine is 90% where it needs to be so I'm 
spending most of my time on widget integration at the moment.


View 2.0: We have to work with what we have, although I have made 
a concession to the future [AGG] with regards to RebGUI's use of 
draw in preference to image + effects.


Dialectise RebGUI: It would be relatively easy to make the specification 
more VID-like by having each attribute specified with a distinct 
datatype (and moving duplicate datatypes such as an 'offset pair 
to a keyword such as 'at) but you pay a big price in code complexity 
and efficiency; and I'm not convinced that inferred attributes ("this 
is a 3-part tuple so it must be a color, while this is a 4-part tuple 
so it must be a span") make code legibility and maintenance any easier.


None of this is to say I can't be convinced otherwise, this is why 
RebGUI is still ALPHA. ;)

Contributed code: sure but yet existing amazing thing wasn't thinked 
to be added to RebGUI so If we want a good time average and retake 
yet existing widget. I think it can be seen as an omage to those 
ppl that spent lot of time try to implement this widgets. If we find 
a way to include them it's like we have a parternity and a real look 
over what exists in the rebol free community that"s a king of concretisation 
and that allow us to improve faster I don't think pruning ctx-menu 
is slower that redone the work from scratch ;). And As I say earlier 
that shows our consern and attention to what exists in rebol free 
community ;). Like "Thank you man you give us this widget now look 
what we can do with how it grow and how it became self dependent. 
If your still want to apport to it or have some ideas on it to share 
with us your very welcome" :)

Personally, I think it would be very cool to have a non-RT GUI dialect 
that was better than VID, but just as flexible.  I wrote VID in very 
short period of time, and it was disigned for more than what it is 
typically used for.  For example, VID is written in such a way that 
it makes it easy to write something like the Layout script -- because 
you can return to the original VID source code from the face itself.

If I had a lot more time, I would be doing a lot more work on VID, 
because the few missing styles are really annoying. So are the few 
areas like moded-dialogs that need more work..... as does the default 
text editing code.

CArl I'am agree with you VID is a very amazing system no challenge 
with it in any other langagues ... But The first thing that came 
to us when we show VID based GUI is " why does this window looks 
so wired..." The fact that I spent on in less time than in other 
langage (even IDE compositor based) is not relevent for the non programmer 
or informatic nerd (sorry for the nerd word ...). What he want is 
what he knows GUI that are sharp designed but in the convention he 
knows hehehehe  ;)

I think that each time we tried to improve VID as a group, we got 
stuck because we tried to add too many things and make it too general. 
There are many improvements that I like, but in the end, it is more 
important to get them released than to make them perfect in every 
way.

Carl me too that's why I'm support REbGUI and I was claiming for 
a such ambisious project since many time ;)

Chris and I did some work on an ARROW style some time back. We'd 
like to offer it up if RebGUI can use it.

Asley if you want to have a look to it it's here (no adapted to RebGUI 
yet ;) maybe tomorrow or sunday comming with a dropdown first implementation 
at the same time if I have enought time ;) ): http://shadwolf.free.fr/arrow-RebGUI.r

more news on sunday nigt (paris time ;))

I work a some time on the porting of arrow widgets  basing me on 
gregg submition ;)  you can find it there: http://shadwolf.Free.fr/arrow-RebGUI-port.r
some work must be done ;) but I think Ashley could understand more 
than me what is needed ;)

Last thing the pointer is slow on hudge text because of this F***King 
mad system base on caret  to handle the cursor position you store 
the current text that belongs after the cursor Writing and rewriting 
every time into this caret buffer the most part of the document is 
super slow  !!!

I know. There were ones some time ago too ... just curious what aproach 
Ashley took ....

Pekr: It's all explained in http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/locale.html


Brock: radio-group does this already (set of mutually exclusive choices) 
and I was contemplating a check-group widget which uses the data 
attribute to store a block containing state information for each 
check-box in the group.


shadwolf: menu and tabbing are still WIP. The arrow widget is integrated 
into %widgets.r, I just ran out of room (> 1024 pixel width) with 
the current %tour.r. Once the scroller and spinner widgets are complete 
I'll redo %tour.r breaking it down into sub-widget categories (the 
real solution is to enhance the tab-panel widget but one thing at 
a time).

there is still some bugs that I don't know how to solve them ... 
this time I'm really off ...

Great stuff!! One question WRT fields uses in specification and runtime, 
for example LED-Group. Is it possible to alter the led-group content? 
Adding or removing possible entries in it? Or is this a one-time 
action when the widget initializes?

Robert: LED-Group attributes can be changed at runtime with:

	led-handler/pane/2/data: true
	led-handler/pane/2/text: "Test"
	show led-handler


but the specification (number of LEDs and orientation) is fixed at 
specification time. I have no plans to change this.


Pekr: Most folks are familiar with WinXP, it is something to model. 
The basic RebGUI color scheme is controlled by less than a dozen 
words, and arrow / chevron / other is fully inheritable; but the 
"look" (e.g. tab shape and active shading) is hard-coded in most 
cases. So the answer is that you can easily change the cosmetic aspects 
of the UI but not the fundamentals.

Gregg: known issue.


Volker: Not sure which way you mean. If you want to contribute new 
widgets that work with both VID and RebGUI then I'll be spending 
time optimizing them for RebGUI which will break their VID compatibility. 
If you mean that you want to make the RebGUI widgets work under VID 
then feel free to do so with the widgets I have authored. For other 
widgets, please contact their author(s).

?? don't understand ...  but we have lot of time to have me understanding...

I remake another time the buil-table function for the listview widgets 
( acording to Ashley  advices) build code is pretty easier to understand 
and the buildtime spend in the fonction is pretty inferrior than 
in the previous implementation (on an other data organasation ) rebgui-list2.r 
build-table time is 0.047 with regui-list3.r it's 0.31 (both  with 
data countaining 5cols  100rows on a PC ( win2k SP4, Amd sempron 
2600+, SDRAMM DRR PC3200) )

I just looked at Romano's ana-list.  When column resizing, he chooses 
to resize in real time only the adjacent column.  The other columns 
are not affected.

Excel 2000 resizes the column headers only in real time and not all 
the data

I'm only on 900 MhZ machine and the resizing is real-time with my 
mouse movements.

this time we are near of the perfection  :)

You got it Norman.....I went through the same "what the hell is this 
that did not alrewady exist"


AJAX is another way of say "Don't refresh teh page every time, just 
send me the small amount of data I need"

Our plan is actually to split off a page and start the UI from scratch 
for the Framework.  it will be fun.  We will simply do everything 
one step at a time, and correctly.

not ready for prime time yet.

- red-icons problem - untill particular rambo ticked is resolved, 
rebol's windows time-zone can't be in any way be regarded as being 
correct. and it does not depend if it is the bug of the OS, or rebol 
somehow ommits summertime adjusting flag of OS (if there is any under 
Windows)

I would like to have answered:


1) what technique to use for "timestamping" - do we continue with 
timestamps against one central time, or do we use hashes, or sequencing 
numbers, or mixture of mentioned techniqueues? We might look how 
others do it ...


2) better support for possible conflicts - imagine following scenario 
- you have some reblet, e.g. Contacts - one person starts editing 
it, then another person starts editing it too. First one syncs (saves 
changes), then second one does the same - changes of first ones are 
lost. How to aproach this - introduce some kind of resources locking? 
(not real locking, but we are message based, so could be queued)


It could work as follows - person 1 wants to edit some record. Edit 
button posts request-for-lock. Lock is assigned. I other person tries 
to edit, it will not obtain lock. We could even introduce protocol 
level support, so that the person is informed, who has the lock, 
and how long. The trouble usually comes, when person goes off-line 
after the edit started - we need to remove dead-locks, so by default, 
I would lock for 20 minutes e.g. and the lock would have to be renewed, 
if person 1 wants to work longer with the given document ...


another scenario is, when you actually start editing something which 
might require locking, but you start already being off-line. We could 
create lock-request, just not synced yet. Once you go on-line, you 
simply check seqno, if the lock is possible, and the given record 
not modified. But what if it was modified in the meantime? e.g. you 
might be working with stock system and someone else in the office 
sells few units, for which you may start writing offer for to another 
customer. Tough scenario - would like to know your opinion. Maybe 
some things simply need to be done on-line only?


3) I needed small file-sync scenario - could use IOS, but IOS can't 
sync and "forget". Simply idea is to have different kind of syncing 
techniques, so e.g. for file transfer you have dir to sync, if correctly 
synced, log it, forget it, delete it on client and or server (or 
not, it depends)


as for IOS, local storage could be encrypted (or not), imported into 
RebDB (no single better solution so far introduced for rebol), sync-per-record 
or record-set could remain (record=document). RebDB on Serve would 
speed things up significantly too ...


another possibility is to think outside the IOS terms, in more general 
way - simply thinking about world of objects, being in various states, 
with various life-time around internet and on-line or off-line devices. 
I think that maybe we could find some simpler solution than SyncML 
and the likes ...


another point - such techniques should be transport independent, 
so I would not like to hear that it needs this or that ;-)

So, anyone?

yes, I might be, if I decide to go for the app ... I will post our 
company requirements in oportunities group, maybe today evening. 
Our company failed with big Sap system for file transfer. I wanted 
to create something upon which business could be based. I will not 
be selfish - I better publish what could be a good business imo, 
than doing nothing myself due to lack of free time or the lack of 
my coding knowledges ...

I might try to better earn some money, then finding free time and 
struggle implementing it myself. I could become CZ implementator, 
if I like the product :-)

In theory, timestamp syncing can be done by asking the server for 
its current time or time zone, comparing against your own, and then 
adjusting your timestamps for comparison by the difference. I'm not 
sure how well this would handle latency issues (we should look at 
time protocols), but it would handle the client's computer clock 
being wrong. This would have to be done at the beginning of each 
syncing session, incase the client moves time zones or otherwise 
adjusts their clock between sessions.

What is the problem with summertime ?  When switching to daylight 
saving, the time zone changes.  Eg ours goes from +12 to +13.

the problems is reported in rambo ticket, will find it for you - 
it can report two zones +1 or + 2 here, and it is a problem - it 
depends if you skip the time the time is switched on, or if you go 
thru it ...

They are with NTFS (which may be UTC internally), but are not adjusted 
with Fat (12/16/32) which stores files in local time.

ok, as for your benchmark, also note, that inserts etc. are slow 
as hell. Because it reopens the file each time ... IIRC there is 
some trick as transaction? for that?

other thing is, if we should support /object as original scheme did? 
Even  with odbc, some time ago, I simply created map-record function, 
which mapped record to object, for easier access (block position 
independent) .... dunno if you find that possibility usefull though 
....

0.1.5 available at: http://www.dobeash.com/SQLite/sqlite.r

Changes of note include:


 - New /format refinement of CONNECT that formats output like MySQL 
 (can be turned on/off via SQLIte/format?: true|false)
	- Widths block (SQLite/widths) added to supporrt above

 - DESCRIBE, TABLES and INDEXES functions rewritten (and simplified)
	- Added an EXPLAIN function

 - CONNECT rewritten (note that the attach refinement has been replaced 
 by the function accepting a block! of file names instead)
	- DATABASE function added

 - Experimental IMPORT function added (but not exported to global 
 context - see example for how it is used)

 - Error trapping / reporting more informative (especially if a library 
 call error occurs)
	- Example block updated (do example)

Documentation will be updated as time permits.

as i imagined - that happened to me too once, and I made a ticket 
at the time about using mold/all in encap...

also, this doesn't handle date stamps with time/seconds.

iirc dbase does not support time datatype ...

If it's not for human communication, the space between date und time 
is a T
so now /precise is 2006-03-21T11:06:48.232+01

but it is easy to convert to - replace time-value "T" " " " :-)

In unix the time is expressed in seconds and microseconds since midnight 
(0 hour), January 1, 1970.  The resolution of the system clock is 
hardware dependent, and the time may be updated continuously or in 
``ticks.'' 

The following structures are defined in <sys/time.h> as:

struct timeval {
        long    tv_sec;         /* seconds since Jan. 1, 1970 */
        long    tv_usec;        /* and microseconds */
};

struct timezone {
        int     tz_minuteswest; /* of Greenwich */

        int     tz_dsttime;     /* type of dst correction to apply */
};


The timezone structure indicates the local time zone (measured in 
minutes of time westward from Greenwich), and a flag that, if nonzero, 
indicates that Daylight Saving time applies locally during the appropriate 
part of the year.

Worth noting that they are UNIX seconds not UTC seconds.....UNIX 
time does not recognise leap seconds, so it's now seven (I think) 
seconds adrift.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time

Pekr, "the question is, if there should be any delimiter in DB". 
There has to be, otherwise LOAD will treat "20060101" as an integer 
not a date. Remember that SQLite has no concept of "column types" 
so the MOLDed values themselves have to carry / represent the REBOL 
type when LOADed. What we are trying to do with date is to use an 
alternate representation that REBOL will still recognize as a date 
but that also happens to sort correctly; YYYY-MM-DD achieves both 
those objectives, it's just a cosmetic question as to what delimiter 
"looks" better if someone looks at the raw data (prior to being LOADed 
into REBOL values) or uses the format directly in their statements 
(e.g. "select * from t where date = '2006-01-01'").


Graham, "If they are stored as numbers, then just as easy to sort!" 
Yes, but as per above we lose the fact that they are dates. If they 
are stored as integer then we'll get them back as integers.


Graham, "what about time?" REBOL time values (in HH:MM:SS format) 
are already supported, and nothing prevents you from using now / 
now/precise except that these values will not be sorted correctly 
[with an "order by" clause that is].

Mind you, I can always extend the date handling logic (as posted 
previously) to check to see whether the date has a time component; 
something like:

	if val/time [...]


Should we be checking for a zone component as well? The shortest 
possible timestamp that REBOL will recognize is:

	type? load "2006-01-01/13:30"

But that excludfes both seconds and zone.

My synapse chat program also stores timestamps and needs the timezone 
so that other users not in NZ can translate the timestamp to local 
time.

WRT encryption. I found one implementation (you need to buy a license) 
that supports transparent encryption. IIRC I posted the link some 
time ago. I will have a look at the C code and there at the storage 
stuff to see how hard it is to add an AES encryption of storage pages. 
IMO it can't be that hard.

I have to take a look at the C code. But #pragma stuff is compile 
time...

So, what can be done is SELECT ... LIMIT n OFFSET m. At least this 
can handle the result set in defined block sizes on the application 
level. Of course paging requires a new query each time.

The min goal with the proxy is to open a specific room at a specifica 
time up to a specific hour or up to a limit hour (when the school 
closes)

so in reality, each time a computer opens up a view of the current 
state of each thing, it should have its own listener port.

if I had just a bit more time, I'd be glad to help, but comming back 
from the devcon has but a strain on my time (a lot of time to make 
up at work and at home)

but seeing people's real use cases helps me see where to put the 
time on whatever I do next, and your example shows me that I am dead 
on my priorities  :-)

and it seems, by a strange twist of faith, that I suddenly have A 
LOT more time on my hands... (I'll let you figure out why ;-)

Gabriele - but, what I would not like to see is - to start with system, 
which is not flexible enough - e.g. old VID - you CAN'T add some 
things later, unless you count on them from the very beginning! Then 
docs appear, ppl start to produce scripts, and then we complain that 
we can't change it, because there is lots of dependency ;-) Please 
bear in mind, that NOW is the time for the change ...

liquid's strength lies in the fact that it is generic.  we all write 
dataflow within our applications, without realising it.  but we then 
recode each little system in its own isolated architecture.  this 
means we just loose a lot of time.

I was able to write elixir in about 40-50 hours of time and the only 
bugs it has are within the parts of code which has no dataflow.  
everytime I trust liquid and switch part of the code to it, I end 
up forgetting about that part, because it gets to be so stable.

The truth is, I do not have the reflex of using liquid for most of 
my coding, still, but actuall exposure and use, is forcing me to 
value its effect on my code.  this is empiric use, not advocacy. 
 If you could see just how easy it was for me to build fully bug-free 
AGG gadgets in so little time, you'd understand.


its not about just sharing data between gadgets, its about allowing 
your code to know what's going on.

the only difference is that some (switcheable in real time, even 
set to a function) which will always want to refresh, when they are 
aware of data changes.

dideC: well, I'm am working towards that.  I am keeping up the habit 
of working on one thing at a time and currently I'm hard at work 
on Revault.  that being said... guess what are the first libs to 
be put online  ;-)

want text ports, just make a liquid which spues out text on the console... 
need that logged, just plug in another node which spues out stuff 
on disk as it comes in... but you don't even have to change anything 
in your systems... and can even easily connect your logger to other 
nodes, so you can track the flow of traffic, or the end effects some 
root events are having on the outputs of the system.  sometimes its 
not obvious to see the real world relation of inputs and output... 


liquid allows you inspect all states at all points in time of you 
system's processing and compare it.

I'll mail it as well. Not on REBOL.org...just time, priorities, and 
lazyness.

the latest game graphics are simply amazing.  I've seen a real time 
strategy game with hundreds of characters which have reflecting armor... 
I mean the armor is inter-reflecting amongst characters!  this is 
starting to be pretty amazing.

don't you have quick-time native player on OS-X? :-)

2:20 minutes time if lunch runs to schedule.
Time in paris now 11:40  == UTC+2

I have a really cool Logitech camera that tracks faces, all seemed 
good (and I use it all the time), but this time it all froze up.

R. ok, so there's not the problem of pointing the mic to the mouth 
all the time.

we're... ahem... back. :) someone predicted the time very accurately.