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And Red/System is a subset/simplification of Red?

I think Red is built on top of Red/System, which is meant to have 
C-like performance. Red/System can also be inlined in Red code.

Hi Henrik, BrianH requested you (or your automated system) invite 
me, I don't know if we've actually spoken before.

That makes Red/System sound like a VM

ACook: you can see Red/System as a human-friendly VM if you want. 
;-) But it's more than that, because it allows you to access very 
low-level system or hardware features directly.

It does abstract everything that can be abstracted, currently, IIRC, 
only FPU options (system/fpu/* properties) are platform-specific.

LLVM is a good choice if you really want a VM (Red/System is more 
a standalone language than a VM).

Isn't Red/System more the runtime environtment for Red? Like for 
Smalltalk or Oberon systems?

No, I don't think so. The Red runtime is written in Red/System. Red/System 
compiles to machine code.

Doc, aliases weren't used that way in R2. R2 stores the word strings 
using the case that the word was first loaded in. When you load subsequent 
words of the same name, they display with the case that the first 
one had. In R3 words are case-preserving, displaying with the case 
they had when they were loaded, even if other words with the same 
name have different cases. I prefer the R3 method, it's a good system, 
though it does lead to some confusion from people used to R2. For 
instance, they compare like strings:
>> 'a = 'A
== true
>> 'a == 'A
== false
>> 'a =? 'A
== false

So, Red Compiler is like the first C++ compilers that emitted C code, 
but emits Red System language?

Yes, except that Red/System is designed to fit Red, and Red will 
pass code to Red/System efficiently in loaded block form, instead 
of text form that the C compilers had to parse again

Robert, Nenad's intial plan was for the Red compiler to directly 
generate machine code. So his first presentation reflects that. It 
was a few months after the launch that he decided to generate Red/System 
code from the Red compiler.

Robert: C++ is a superset of C. Red is not a superset of Red/System, 
they are two different languages that share the same syntax and superficially, 
some semantic rules. Red/System is a low-level dialect of Red than 
enables system & hardware programming with C-level performances. 
Additionally, Red/System is used to build Red runtime (memory manager, 
lexer, natives,...).

Or for me on OS X :

Schulz:Red peter$ rebol -qs red-system/rsc.r red-system/tests/hello.reds

Cannot access source file: red-system/tests/hello.reds

If you login to red-system dir compiling tests/hello.reds will work.

I presume Kaj's issue is having to cd to the red-system dir before 
compiling (it is a bit of a pain).

I wonder if we shouldn't start providing binary (encapped) versionsof 
the Red/System compiler?

Ok, I've reproduced the issue with a Red/System program not located 
in Red's tree.

Peter: the lib-test file is crashing here on my OS X 10.6.2 image 
with following error:

dyld: lazy symbol binding failed: Symbol not found: _strnlen

  Referenced from: /Users/dk/Desktop/Red/red-system/tests/runnable/lib-test
  Expected in: flat namespace


After researching a bit about it, it seems that strnlen() is (was?) 
not supported by OS X.

SWITCH and CASE: I had a ~20% code reduction on Red/System runtime 
when I used them instead of tons of IFs. I guess your use-case is 
different.

It's not lost, it should be stored in system/options/path.

So `change-dir system/options/path` at the top of rsc.r it is :) 
?

We need two paths: one for locating red-system/ root directory and 
another one for the working directory.
So:
- system/script/path should give us red-system/ root
- system/options/path should give us working directory

So in Red/System it should not be handled in loader

Oldes: I've changed the 'comment implementation to be more like REBOL, 
so it consumes the next expression, but does not generate code for 
it (so you're above example with 'x won't work in Red/System). Also, 
it cannot be used in functions spec blocks anymore, so we still don't 
have a true multiline comment support. Suggestions about that are 
welcome.

Having /* */ comments in Red/System would be a very good idea  for 
me. Boron uses /* */ for multilne comments.

BTW, for those not following me on Twitter (raise your hand!), I 
just got my first Red/System DLL working on Windows. ;-)

So now, who wants to write R3 extensions in Red/System? ;-)

As Red/System compiler is written in R2, you could imagine a full 
toolchain library for R2 that could integrate Red/System deeply with 
R2, imagine:

>> foo: make-native [a [integer!] return: [integer!]][a + 1]
>> foo 123
== 124


MAKE-NATIVE here would compile the Red/System function, emit a DLL, 
load it and map the function back. ;-)

R3 extensions in Red/System sound interesting. Does Red/System have 
some easy way to replicate what the R3 extension macros do with unions?

A Red/System extension kit would need to replicate the functionality 
of the macros, to implement the datatypes involved.

Unions: I had to match them for the SDL binding. Red/System doesn't 
have them, but I just define STRUCTs for each variety, and then cast 
a particular instance to the right one

Unions: I am not a big fan of them, if a better alternative exists 
in other languages, we might borrow it for Red/System?

Fortunately the R3 host kit unions are tagged, so they can be used 
a bit more safely. Most higher-level languages that implement this 
kind of thing do something basically equivalent to the Variant type 
of VB, COM and .NET; even Objective C, Smalltalk, most Lisp/Scheme 
languages, and REBOLs have variant types. A variant is basically 
a tagged union type underneath. Having a cleaner way to do this in 
Red/System would be good., perhaps something like the polymorphic 
types in most functional languages. Red itself could have a dynamic 
value type like REBOL, which is basically another variant type. Red/System 
should have a way to specify different variant types because the 
variants of different platforms tend to not be compatible with each 
other.

I see no reason why Red/System could not support typically used 0xx00FF 
format ... IIRC, when designing R3, we were also thinking to extend 
the syntax to support more formats, but nothing concrete appeared 
...

0x00FF format would kill pair! syntax, remember that Red/System is 
a dialect of Red and that Red will have pair!.

Hexa format: you're right and I hope to fix that once we rewrite 
Red/System in Red (then we'll have our own lexer instead of been 
limited by LOAD).

So I build my first Red/System DLL, but R2 refuses to load it with: 
** Access Error: Cannot open builds/temp.dll as library.

Works fine here. I'm testing with:

Red/System [ ]

i: 56
foo: func [a [integer!] return: [integer!]][a + 1]

#export [foo i]

RED/System[
	Title: "RED/System inline compilator test"
]

f1: func [a [integer!] return: [integer!]] [a + 1]
#export [f1]

Try with following C executable:  http://static.red-lang.org/tmp/loadlib.exe
(or .zip if you have issue downloading the exe).


Put it in the same folder as temp.dll and run it from DOS shell, 
you should have something like: 

C:\Dev\Red\red-system\builds>loadlib
error: 0
hModule: 268435456				;-- library handler
error: 0
&f1: 10001a85				;-- f1 function address
124						;-- f1(123)
error: 0

Guess what. That works:

c:\code\Red\red-system\builds>loadlib.exe temp.dll
error: 0
hModule: 268435456
error: 0
&f1: 10001a85
124
error: 0

So it's probably really a bad day here for coding/testing :)

The only cause I can think of is because the DLL produced by Red/System 
are not (yet) relocatable, they can be conflicting with other loaded 
DLLs (but shouldn't happen with a fresh REBOL session), or are triggering 
something in anti-virus or Windows security sub-systems.

Try to watch what happens when loading the dll using Process Monitor 
and File Monitor from System Internals.

My virtual XP machine is running I think Belgian localistation (turned 
off, but the base system is localised). W7 host is Czech localisation. 
I should try this with original US version.

Red/System []


on-load: func [a [integer!] b [integer!] c [integer!] return: [logic!]][
	print-line "on-load executed"
	true
]

f1: func [a [integer!] return: [integer!]][a + 1]

#export [on-load f1]

So far, I suppose that the issue is caused by either:
- lack of relocation ability from the DLL (my #1 suspect)

- compatibility issue(s) with some system DLL (msvcrt.dll most probably)
- another unknown reason

I'll try to add relocation data to the DLL tonight.

Also, because it needs the latest non-released Red/System, I have 
put the binding changes in a separate developing branch:

what is now latest temp.reds source? I got:

Compiling tests/temp.reds ...
Script: "Red/System IA-32 code emitter" (none)
*** Compilation Error: missing argument
*** in file: %runtime/win32.reds
*** in function: ***-dll-entry-point
*** at line: 204
*** near: [hinstDLL]

Red/System []

on-load: func [a [integer!]][
	print-line "on-load executed"
]

on-unload: func [a [integer!]][
	print-line "on-unload executed"
]

i: 56
foo: func [a [integer!] return: [integer!]][a + 1]

#export [foo i]

I mean - now we can make wrapper libs, coding almost in REBOL (syntax), 
no need to become dirty with C, and hence get more libraries to work 
with R2, via a wrapper libraries written in Red/System?

can you statically link other C libs...

 you mean link static libraries with Red/System executable, right?

My personal favorite is Blender, I'd very much like to add Red/System 
support to it (and kick out Python later when Red will be there). 
;-)

I have added a sample program for those who want to play with DLL 
generation:


https://github.com/dockimbel/Red/blob/dyn-lib-emitter/red-system/tests/shared-lib.reds

you used -dlib option, does it replace -t one? Not skilled here, 
but - can I generate e.g. ARM executable/library from Windows Red/System? 
Or is target environment needed?

can I generate e.g. ARM executable/library from Windows Red/System?


You can cross-compile ARM/ELF code from Windows or MacOSX, just use 
the appropriate target (https://github.com/dockimbel/Red). Currently 
there's only two ARM targets: Linux-ARM and Android. You can cross-compile 
to these targets from any platform Red/System compiler works on.

I have this code for Red/System DLL:

f-1423181: func [a [integer!] return: [integer!]] [a + 1]
f-10584225: func [a [integer!] return: [integer!]] [a - 1]
#export [f-1423181 f-10584225]

and this code in R2 to load it which throws error:

>> lib: load/library %builds/routines.dll

>> foo: make routine!  [a [integer!] return: [integer!]] lib "f-1423181"

>> bar: make routine!  [a [integer!] return: [integer!]] lib "f-10584225"
** Access Error: Cannot open f-10584225

Is it Red/System or R2 problem?

From a non-Windows system, you have to use -t WinDLL target (and 
just that).

Have you tried loading a Red/System DLL with Wine?

Thanks for the link...if I take Linus' code and add it to Red/System, 
I should be able to output a VM image directly from a Red/System 
program, no? ;-)

However, the part of the concurrency model that was designed so far 
affected the design and implementation of the system model and module 
system. You'd be surprised how much the module system was affected 
by the system, binding and interpretation model of R3; very little 
of its design and implementation was arbitrary. You might be able 
to get the syntax the same for Red's module system, but given the 
different system/binding/execution model there wouldn't be much of 
the implementation in common.

sqlab, it would make sense to have the user choose the underlying 
model if you are doing Red on bare metal and implementing everything 
yourself, or running on a system with no Unicode support at all. 
If you are running a Red program on an existing system with Unicode 
support, the choice of which model is best has already been made 
for you. In those cases choosing the best underlying model would 
best be made by the Red porter, not the end developer.

Red user code would only need to support the codepoint-series model; 
Red would translate that into the system's preferred underlying model. 
More encodings would need to be supported for conversion during I/O, 
of course, but not for API or internal use.

So far, my short-list of encodings to support are UTF-8 and UTF-16LE. 
UTF-32 might be needed at some point in the future, but for now, 
I'm not aware of any system that uses it?


The Unicode standard by itself is not the problem (having just one 
encoding would have helped, though). The issue lies in different 
OSes supporting different encodings, so it makes the choice for an 
internal x-platform encoding hard. It's a matter of Red internal 
trade-offs, so I need to study the possible internal resources usage 
for each one and decide which one is the more appropriate. So far, 
I was inclined to support both UTF-8 and UTF-16LE fully, but I'm 
not sure yet that's the best choice. To avoid surprizing users with 
inconsistent string operation performances, I thought to give users 
explicit control over string format, if they need such control (by 
default, Red would handle all automatically internally). For example, 
on Windows::

    s: "hello"		;-- UTF-8 literal string

    print s		;-- string converted to UCS2 for printing through win32 
    API
    write %file s	;-- string converted back to UTF-8

    set-modes s 'encoding 'UTF-16 ;-- user deciding on format
or
    s/encoding: 'UTF-16

    print length? s	;-- Length? then runs in O(1), no surprize.



Supporting ANSI as internal encoding seems useless, being able to 
just export/import it should suffice.

BTW, Brian, IIRC, OS X relies on UTF-8 internally not UTF-16.

Brian: implementing an abstraction layer over string encodings is 
a trivial task. The intended datatype model is very similar to REBOL's 
one, even more since recentl,y as I moved to an hybrid dynamic/static 
type system. I'll commit the new code in a few days, so you'll see 
how close to REBOL it can be.


I hope that this hybrid model will help us get the best of both worlds.

I will believe it if I compiled it on my own system.

yep that's the simplest way to detect it.  its usually all you need 
when you have full control over the system its working on.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb688129
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_numbering_plan


I think the number of options are limited enough that you could get 
pretty far, but a custom system would be great. If you could template-ize 
things, users could submit their templates for others to use, or 
to be integrated into the default system.

This might help you get started:

>> d: open/direct/lines %system-use-case-list.html
>> ln-d: length? ln: first d
== 6
>> ln+nl: read/binary/part %system-use-case-list.html ln-d + 2
== #{3C68746D6C3E0D0A}

If you are running your app on a system that might switch time zones, 
it's best to keep track of time internally in the UTC zone (+0:00). 
This is a little different for R3 and R2.


R3: Use now/utc to get the UTC version of a datetime, or for a stored 
datetime d use d/utc. It does the math for you.


R2: Whenever you get the time, subtract the zone offset from the 
datetime, like this:
>> d: now
== 8-May-2012/11:36:01-5:00
>> d: d - d/zone
== 8-May-2012/16:36:01-5:00
>> d/zone: none
== none
>> d
== 8-May-2012/16:36:01

Here is some info:
http://www.rebol.com/docs/view-face-object.html


A block that holds text line information. This block is created, 
updated, and used by the system to optimize the updating of text. 
When you modify large areas of text (greater than 200 characters) 
you should set this variable to zero to force the system to recompute 
the positions of all lines. If you do not, you may see garbage characters 
appearing within the text.

Perhaps it helps to learn about the mechanisms: There are several 
ways to generate a dynamic UI:


The LAYOUT function works by creating an object tree, a tree of faces 
that are simply ordinary objects. When passing this to the VIEW function, 
a layout is displayed. The layout function is part of VID and is 
as such a high level function. VIEW is a low level function to interpret 
the face tree.


The face tree consists of objects that contain other objects through 
the FACE/PANE word. If the FACE/PANE contains an object, that object 
is a single face, that is displayed inside the parent face. If the 
PANE contains a block, that block may contain multiple objects that 
are simply multiple faces. As such, a typical window is a face with 
a FACE/PANE that is a block that contains other objects.


Graphically, the face is represented by a region on the screen that 
has the size and offset, possibly an effect, such as coloring, blur 
or mirroring or a text attached to it, and image or other faces that 
are only visible inside that region.

A window is also a face.


To navigate to the parent face from a face, use the FACE&/PARENT-FACE 
word. Note that FACE/PARENT-FACE is many times not set by VID, which 
is sometimes problematic.


You can manipulate the face tree by adding removing objects dynamically 
and calling the SHOW function. You can also change values in existing 
face objects in the tree, such as for resizing or moving the faces 
and then calling SHOW again. You can also build a face tree entirely 
by hand, and this is usually the starting point for different layout 
engines, such as RebGUI, that simply build face trees in their own 
way.


The prototype face is FACE, which is a minimum requirement face for 
the View engine. The prototype face for a VID face, which contains 
a few more words, is SYSTEM/VIEW/VID/VID-FACE, which is the minimum 
requirement face for VID.


One condition for the face tree is to not use the same object in 
multiple locations. The VIEW or SHOW function will return an error 
if that is the case.


A simpler way is also to generate a new face tree every time you 
want to change the layout. Although this is slightly more computationally 
heavy, it allows you to manipulate the block that was passed to the 
LAYOUT function instead of manipulating the face tree directly. This 
technique is best used, when the face tree changes dramatically by 
each manipulation.


Another important concept is the DRAW engine which is a separate 
entity in REBOL2. It can be called to draw on an image bitmap, using 
the DRAW function or as in effect for a face object, by adding a 
parameter in the VID dialect block or by changing the FACE/EFFECT 
word. DRAW is used by calling a dialect. if you just want to use 
fields, buttons and simple user interface designs, you may not need 
to use DRAW.

Thank you all for addressing my concerns and for your answers about 
my first coding question.


Ahh.. rejoin. Reading up on it makes me better understand how some 
things are to be done in Rebol.

 Continuing to the final goal...


I have to extract an email address from a GET transfer. The methoed 
of sending the info to me is completely out of my control. An email 
address will be entered into a form on a website not controled by 
me. GET methoed will send the data to my script. The people who created 
the form on the external site advised that they label the email address 
as "trnEmailAddress".


 So now I want to see if I am correct in thinking how to extract and 
 use the email address. Will using the decode a cgi form command (I 
 know they are not commands in the tradiational sense)  work. How 
 does it work, does it create variables out of the GET (or Post when 
 using Post, but I am forced to recieve the info via GET) stream?


The GET stream in my case will include "&trnEmailAddress=person%40example%2Ecom. 
So can I do this?

decode-cgi system/options/cgi/query-string

send trnEmailAddress "Thank you. Rest of message." 

Thanks for your help.

I got an idea from a friend. So I got ready to start my two scripts 
(maybe someone wrote smth similar???) - one window; left pane has 
file system folders tree with top at the script's dir, right pane 
has some content. I want two scripts, every of them is a standalone 
app for its own like-minded audience: 1) plaintext.r, and 2) activetext.r. 
The plaintext.r will have right pane editor for plain text, saving 
it on the fly while editing (when the window is navigated away or 
closed, the text is saved); and activetext.r which has a plaintext-with-rebol-applets 
or .r content at the right pane.

here is a simple way to get the code for a face within the layout 
function ( I found it the easiest to remember):

view layout [
	across
	text "1"
	my-radio: radio on 
	do [probe my-radio]
	text "2"
	radio
]


the advantage of this system is that you get the actual face with 
any facets setup as they really are in your gui.  this is often the 
easiest way to identify just where and how a specific facet affects 
a face... probe it without your change, and then run it again, with 
your change... comparing both probes in a diff or merge tool.

I have view.txt in my rebol/script folder a copy from system/view, 
it is 80000 lines mostly object definitions and images. quite different 
from the ancient one http://www.rebol.com/view/vid.rthat at least 
makes some sense to me ;-)

Today I experimented with calling a REBOL script from my php script. 
Thanks to previous contributions of a.o. Ralph Roberts of abooks.com 
from 1999(!) and an entry on the PHP site I found out how to do this 
on my apache driven site.

It was not quite as straightforward as Robert said like: include 
("rebolnow.r");
Nor was it as simple as: system("rebolnow.r 2>&1", $myout);
echo $myout;

But it worked when I called out for the REBOL program first. Both 
two of the next examples worked for me:
system("/path/to/cgi-bin/rebol -c %rebolnow.r 2>&1", $myout);
echo $myout;
AND secondly
echo system("/path/to/cgi-bin/rebol -c %rebolnow.r");
Work!

The REBOL script must be in the same dir as your PHP script (Not 
in your cgi-bin directory)(I didn't test sub dirs and other dirs 
but I suppose they work like usual)
The script does not need the #!/path/to/rebol line at the top.
The script should not print http-headers and

When printing stuff the last line should read print "" because the 
last printed line will be repeated.

Hope this helps more people to switch from php scripting to REBOL 
scripting for their websites.

I meant system. exec didn't work. I still prefer system above passthru. 
I have integrated my first REBOL module within my website. I needed 
to add a cookie section to obey the new cookie law anyway. I even 
used a REBOL script to generate all cookie pictures to the same size 
and png format.

This function should help you:

form-error: func [err [object!]][
	foreach w [arg1 arg2 arg3][
		set w either unset? get/any in err w [none][
			get/any in err w
		]
	]
	reform [
		"***" system/error/(err/type)/type #":"
		reduce system/error/(err/type)/(err/id) newline
		"*** Where:" mold/flat get in err 'where newline
		"*** Near: " mold/flat get in err 'near newline
	]
]

If you are doing anything in PARSE, or generating blocks, or a wide 
variety of other things, it almost always pays off to do it in R3 
if you can, rather than R2 or any of the other REBOL-alikes except 
maybe Topaz. Topaz has a few PARSE enhancements that R3 could use, 
but the rest don't even come close; there are so many bugs in R2 
that need to be worked around that code for it can be quite different. 
Unfortunately, other factors can prevent people from using R3. Hopefully 
when Red itself is developed, not just Red/System, it will adopt 
the changes that we made for R3.

Amazon SWF holds the connection open for 60 seconds to allow events 
to appear.  This times out my http(s) connections though.  I tried 
setting system/schemes/timeout to 60 but that doesn't work??

system/schemes/default/timeout

Tried setting system/schemes/http/timeout too?

or rather system/schemses/https/timeout

Another interesting problem I have: I have a script as follow:
REBOL []
probe system/options/args
halt


I encap this script, no problem, it works as expected, console opens 
and "none" appears:
none
** Press enter to quit...

If I run it with some params like "test.exe --test"
["--test"]
** Press enter to quit... 


But if I run it with some parameters, like -c, --sec, it prints nothing? 
(-c and --sec seems to be special for rebol.exe but it works with 
-s which is special too)
** Press enter to quit...

Why and how PROBE doesn't produce an output?

Try with system/script/args instead.

Let me simplify:

REBOL []
print "ok"
print system/script/args
ask "test"


When I encap this script and run with a parameter like "-cxx" it 
doesn't print ANYTHING.

no "ok" no "test" nothing. BUT when I WRITE system/script/args to 
a file it looks it is there.

REBOL []
print "ok"

write %test.txt system/script/args ;there is "-cxx" in test.txt file.

this works, the other two do not

 system/schemes/default/timeout: 0:01:10
 ;system/schemes/http/timeout: 0:01:10
;system/schemes/https/timeout: 0:01:10

Confirmed.
Even system/schemes/default/timeout: none

Caelem, D'oh moments are possible in any language.
I once wrote
    return: true
rather than
    return true

The protracted debug session that followed taught me the value of 
protect-system.

These values are already processed by REBOL when it is started in 
CGI mode. I'm using
	cgi: system/options/cgi
The request URI is then in cgi/path-info

to allow full (run-time) extensibility of R3 as it is, it needs two 
other apis:
-a decent event registration mechanism (add new types and specs)

-a device registration system (so we can link schemes and protocols 
to them).

I must admit that if you can receive events in the host, you can 
just execute a code string within the root ( just like if one enters 
a command in the prompt).   It worked very well for interfacing with 
GLUT ... I had just built a little pseudo event system which I called 
from within the glut callback and it was fast enough to handle all 
events in real-time.

Ladislav: would you be interested in improving the 'proxify function 
from the REBOL profiler I've built for Red project, it has the same 
kind of constraints as 'tail-call? The current code is a bit "rough", 
I don't have time to make a cleaner and simpler version of it.


See code at: https://github.com/dockimbel/Red/blob/v0.3.0/red-system/utils/profiler.r

Rebol [
    Title: "Catch"
    File: %catch.r
    Date: 5-Oct-2012/17:49:58+2:00
    Author: "Ladislav Mecir"
    Purpose: {
    	Catches local throw'
    	Ignores non-local throws
    }
]

; Error definition
system/error: make system/error [
	throw': make object! [
		code: system/error/throw/code + 50
		type: "throw' error"
    	not-caught: ["throw' not caught"]
    ]
]

catch': func [
    {Catches a throw' from a block and returns the value.}
    [throw]
    block [block!] "Block to evaluate"
    /local err disarmed
] [
	use [throw'] copy/deep compose/only [
		; "localize" 'throw' in the block
		block: (block)

		throw': func [[catch] value [any-type!]] [
			disarmed: disarm err: make error! [throw' not-caught]
			set/any in disarmed 'arg1 get/any 'value
			disarmed/arg2: 'throw'
			throw err
		]

		get/any either all [
			error? set/any 'err try block
			(
				disarmed: disarm err
				disarmed/type = 'throw'
			)
			disarmed/id = 'not-caught
			disarmed/arg2 =? 'throw'
		] [
			in disarmed 'arg1
		] [
			'err
		]
	]
]

No, we haven't had time to make emulator images for 0.6.7 yet. The 
Enlightenment port isn't published in binary yet, but you could compile 
it with the Syllable build system

I got the browser to be unresponsive again and tried to kill the 
process using the System Information Processes tab, but that didn't 
work and the info applicaton became unresponsive as well. At that 
point the mouse didnt work either and when I tried to send the OS 
a ctrl-alt-del, that didn't do anything.

Yes, that's the other way to do it, but you probably killed a system 
process instead. Look for the first thread that says "Webster" (the 
web browser) and end that thread. It will take all the other Webster 
child threads with it

Yes, look in the System Manager or df in the terminal what partition 
number you have, then adapt the menu.lst