AltME groups: search

The ulimit sets standard Linux resource limits for the process and 
its REBOL child process that gets started afterwards

[I'm just guessing here] There are at least three different data 
sets to update when I send a private message to (say) Graham:
-1- my chat local *.set file

-2- whatever data sets are held on the server to record the message 
(I have no idea what these are)
-3- Graham's local *.set file


The first two could contribute to perceived slowness in sending; 
the third to any apparent slowness in updating/downloading messages.


Append/lines to a 4.5 meg file does not take long on my machine (not 
does read/lines) so I'm primed to suspect the problem is on the server.


What would be interesting to know is if the grayness I see when sending 
a message ends when:
-a- the server acknowledges receipt; or
-b- when the server has finished committing all its updates.


If it is -b-, then moving the server response to be -a- could create 
a significant perceived increase in responsiveness.

You are quite right -- 'alter is still in R3 ..... My mistake.


Several of REBOL's set operations operate on series. Series are more 
like bags than sets, hence they can have duplicate values. That adds 
value for a programmer, but dilutes academic purity.


Perhaps 'alter could have a purer set defintion by becoming a no-op 
if the target value exists more than once in the series.

call/output does not work, when console is not being run? I tried 
to convert some character sets, prepared short script, and run it 
by double-clicking .r file. No result was shown and rebol process 
is hang in memory. It was enough to put one print statement so that 
console showed up, and it was OK then. But that is weird, I wanted 
it to run without REBOL console showing up ...

INFO? uses QUERY, and QUERY's behaviour on a port is defined in the 
port's scheme (in this case the HTTP port scheme).

The QUERY function in the HTTP scheme just sets a flag  querying: 
true  and calls OPEN on the port, so the query behaviour is an   
internal behaviour (closed source).

'isolate takes a block of words, creates an exclusive context, sets 
words in that context to their value in their current context and 
returns a word bound to that context.

I imagine when you now set some word in some function it looks at 
/local words and it it's there it creates a local word, if not it 
just sets a word (globaly).. let's say that there is funcstrinct 
that in second case just throws an error (probably something like 
that could be made in rebol itself)

I guess additional refinements to a function as fundamental as INSERT 
are a no-go for performance reasons. Probably ALTER/INSERT or ALTER/ONCE 
though:

	>> alter/once [] flag
	== [flag]
	>> alter/once [flag] flag
	== [flag]


See the dance REBOL/View's FLAG-FACE is doing to achieve something 
like that (and a little bit more):

	flag-face: func [
	    "Sets a flag in a VID face."
	    face [object!]
	    'flag
	][
	    if none? face/flags [face/flags: copy [flags]]

     if not find face/flags 'flags [face/flags: copy face/flags insert 
     face/flags 'flags]
	    append face/flags flag
	]

INCLUDE in R3 is not a global word, in the code im currently writing

	>> include package/changes 'weight


reads very nice. Sadly, it's signature wouldn't be compatible with 
EXCLUDE, which only allows series and sets as it's second argument. 

The two refinements /INCLUDE and /EXCLUDE though would make ALTER 
more usefull.

Brian, great example. It also highlights that we may want it to accept 
sets of values as well as single values.

bitsets are exactly what you need graham (only working with sets 
of integers or chars, though)

by just making your own INCLUDE function, while one is added to the 
default REBOL language, I find its pretty easy to manage sets.


Use all the  Data Set functions and remove-each.   combining sets, 
excluding sets, etc.. its all there.

You mean using /skip and /compare to sort a series in sets?
s: [1 2 8 a   1 2 6 b   1 2 7 c]    ;; three sets of four items
sort/skip/compare s 4 [3]        ;; sort on the third item
== [1 2 6 b 1 2 7 c 1 2 8 a]

looking at  possible search optimising within rebol, for big data 
sets.

because LAYOUT sets set-word!s globally. they don't exist in a particular 
context.

c: does [ f/text: "hello" show f ] view layout [ f: field button 
"New" [ context [ f: g: none bind [ c ] 'g view/new layout [ f: field 
button "test" [ c ]
] ]]]


this doesn't work ... pressing the test button sets the f field in 
the first window and not the second

Two partial workarounds to your first issue Petr (I've used them 
both or various data sets):


1.  simply APPEND each time, then when the set is complete use UNIQUE 
to deduplicate

2.  if not alter target value [append target value]
   this ensures that VALUE is the last entry in TARGET

But, as Gregg mentioned, I think that one of its advantages is that 
it shows how to implement different priority/associativity rule sets

The exception is the "set" functions that are supposed to make series 
act like unique sets. Most of the time people need copies when working 
with set functions. We had a big discussdion about this earlier.

BTW, the term set function is confusing .. perhaps use the term sets 
function

Much more complicated

 - do not forget it processes three different rule sets, each of which 
 uses different priorities and associativities.

yes... the concept of "rule sets" is not straightforward :) what 
do you mean by this?

the rule sets are described in the comments to the SRA, STD and RLE 
functions

I think it is OK. Set just sets the word to the first value matched.

This is a simple rule:

set w rule

sets the word 'w to the first value matched. No error.

This is the formulation used to document the SET directive:


If the subexpression match succeeds, the set operation sets the given 
variable to the first matched value, while the copy operation copies 
the whole part of the input matched by the given subexpression. For 
a more detailed description see the Parse idioms section.

Having an R2-compatible PARSE that you can run in R3 would be useful 
for large sets of parse rules that you haven't had the time to migrate 
yet.

[set var end] sets the var to none; [copy var end] sets to none in 
R2, the empty string/block in R3; [thru end] doesn't match, so it 
should just get a warning in case the rules were written to expect 
that; [opt end] is definitely legit; perhaps [any end] and [some 
end] should get warnings for R2, but keep in mind that rules like 
[any [end]] and [some [end]] are much more common, have the same 
effect, and are more difficult to detect; [into end] properly trigers 
an error in R2 and R3 because the end is not in a block, while [into 
[end]] is legit and safe.

Is announce used for stuff that no one will ever see?  I guess so 
.. Max sets the precedent here!

http://www.fm.tul.cz/~ladislav/rebol/include.r

has been updated. See also the updated documentation:

http://www.rebol.net/wiki/INCLUDE_documentation


The change just enhances support for localization (or other sets 
of user-defined directives), no incompatibilities with the previous 
version are expected.

http://www.fm.tul.cz/~ladislav/rebol/include.r

has been updated

Main changes:

- support for user-defined directive sets improved a bit again
- a new error id defined
- errors documented
- a "runaway local" in a directive bug caught

For the complete changelog see

http://www.rebol.net/wiki/INCLUDE_documentation

Icons: At least for icons you can take a look at www.istockphoto.com. 
I use this services to get high-quality pictures for presentations 
etc. There are a lot of artists doing icon-sets etc.

RebGUI color management.


The "old" RebGUI color management system evolved by adding new colors 
to ctx-rebgui/colors as and when a new color was selected. Many of 
these colors (e.g. button, tooltip*, btn*) were widget specific. 
In all, 15 colors were defined. In addition to this, a number of 
hard-coded colors such as white, black, coal, red and blue were scattered 
throughout the system.


The effect of all this was to provide a means whereby *most* colors 
could be changed, but the design of a "theme" other than the default 
WinXP scheme was problematic.


The new color management system rationalizes these colors down to 
a base set of 8, being:

	page
	text
	theme-light
	theme-dark
	state-light
	state-dark
	outline-light
	outline-dark


with all existing "old" color references being converted to the "new" 
ones. page and text will usually be white and black (high contrast), 
with outlines being grey, and theme and state being variations on 
the same color. The updated request-ui shows how these themes can 
more easily be chosen (there is a drop-list beneath each of the theme 
and state groups that sets both light and dark to a similar color).


This is still a work in progress, and I am basing the model (and 
color selections) largely on those described in the "Quilt design 
style guide"; and colors / ideas from:

	http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines

 http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/gtk-Resource-Files.html
 (styles section)

A number of things have to come together to make this work:


 1) Conceptual model: do we have the right tokens to reflect all color 
 configurable aspects of the UI (e.g. is there a color word appropriate 
 for a highlight selection, a heading, etc)

 2) Are they named appropriately (e.g. is selected better than state-light?)
	3) What colors should be used in what context?


This last one is very tough. As a general rule I've followed the 
Quilt model and used outline-light for non-edit edges, theme-dark 
for edit edges and heading backgrounds, etc (you can find a crude 
list of usage cases under the new "Colors" tab of RebDOC).


But what about a widget like button? It potentially has the following 
color states:

	Unselected	theme-dark
	Focus		theme-light
	Button-down	?

and widgets such as sheet which might have:

	Headings	theme-dark with page font/color text
	Cells		page
	Edges		outline-light
	Selected cell	theme-light
	Forumla cell	theme-light
	Cell that cursor is currently over

and there are a number of ways of denoting this with color:

	as a background color change
	as a font color change
	as an edge color change
	as a combination of the above


In short, there are a lot of ways of implementing this. What I want 
needs to be simple and consistent with as few colors as possible. 
Any suggestions (including links to good color management techniques 
/ approaches) greatly appreciated.

Ashley, can we have a method that sets the slider and contents back 
to 0 for area and table ?

Oops, sorry Ashley, I was wrong about RebGUI unsetting LAYOUT. (It's 
been a long time since I tried RebGUI.)

MaxV, tell us the rebol version you are using (system/version) and 
the RebGUI version.
Show us the full code which does not work with RebGUI.

I noticed your second example (using RebGUI) did not include the 
code which sets the font path.
Just to be sure, can you confirm you tried it together?

I suspect things like audio samples and very large data sets (geographical 
data, 16-bit image data) could be used for this.

BACK TAIL series sets the position - the AT is a noop in your example.

but the word exists in the module before the script is done.... its 
just not set yet... so it should be bound in the module and the script 
sets the value, since its running in the context of the module.

Carl has announced the applicability of logical operators to type(set)s 
for a77. At first sight, this duplicates union ( ~ or) intersect 
(~ and) and difference (~ xor). Then again, both sets of operators 
are also defined on bitsets, so there is consistency in this duplication, 
and I suspect that typesets are really bitsets, internally. However, 
there is one extension: and/or/xor may have a single datatype for 
their second operand (also for their first???). This is not the case 
with union etc.

What about using a word which requires three paramaters the first 
and third of which must be those delimiters ( smart might be to have 
3 sets of delimiters which need not even be paired - or to have what 
counts as a delimiter set for the user context with one pair of system 
defaults.

The "original post" you are replying to is displayed by n or nn with 
a > on the left of it. I usually enter the number for the post I 
want to reply to first, which displays in and sets the >. Then I 
use r. I wish there was an rp command...

When I click on that link ... it supposed to execute a script when 
then sets the response/redirect

I have different app-inits, one loads mysql other sqlite, sets different 
session keys, loads app specific modules

You have to be a ltitle tricky to hide it James, because it wants 
to redraw when you release the mouse button. In the past, I've set 
up a central handler and states to control what is shown, then your 
action just sets the state you want and the button will be hidden 
on the next pass (timer event).

'func  Defines a function with all set-words as locals.  but if you 
use a parse rule which sets a word, it appears in global name space.

Andreas, the installer determines these things at install time, and 
sets things up for the runtime. but the runtime has to look for stuff 
where the installer puts it, and previously R2's runtime looked in 
the wrong places.

Those operating systems shouldn't add %.rx to file-types then - the 
code that sets that is in the host. Some platforms are less cross-platform 
than others.

R3 is cross-platform, and cURL is cross-platform, but both require 
a little work to make the platform distinctions go away. POSIX helps 
with this on POSIX platforms, but that's not everything. You can 
do a little extra work in your extension to make it work the same 
externally, so R3 code can't tell the difference, but if you want 
that to extend to filenames then you have to pick a cross-platform 
filename standard. Once the extension is loaded, embedded or delayed 
it can be referred to by module name. We don't want IMPORT to grab 
extensions in its module-paths lookup because that would make it 
possible to load an extension when you were looking for a safe module, 
so .rx and .so files aren't going to be in the search list unless 
your program sets system/options/default-suffix to .rx or .so, with 
the same security implications.

the example creates several sets of data with different organizations 
and it compares all of them amongst each other.


so with that script, you should be able to do all the analysis you 
need.

Yes, there should be a module full of character sets, all read-only. 
If not read-only, then no.

That's what I notice about R2 ... these character sets keep being 
redefined because they are hidden deep in the system somewhere

won't work for the sets ?

sets the text cursor ?

I think I would reword the doc string a bit for grammatical consistency.

It looks like it should be either "Set" and "perform", or "Sets" 
and "performs".

with the problem that if your function sets a large number of faces 
...

yes, you can have several unrelated sets, just like you have unrelated 
apps or files on your current computer  :-)

i will try to think this  more  i like the idea of  having a fast 
view uppon rebol script as a view boxed/noded in realation one to 
another. I like the idea of behing able to "enter" those box/nodes 
to adapt them enhance them or simply redefine them. I like the idea 
of sharing pre-sets box and having a synchronised / shared tool box 
.If i design a tool and make it available then in a short time that 
tool becomes part of the hudge collective tool box and then is shared 
to every one.

non-destructive datasets: this also implies that the undo engine 
really stores all temporary data. it could be an issue with larger 
data sets, unless it's possible to compress them into changes.

A show face user poll:


We decided to introduce a face attribute allowing to implement the 
following show states of a child face of a panel (or, eventually, 
other container):


1) the face is visible and it resizes/repositions together with its 
parent panel

2) the face is invisible, but it resizes/repositions together with 
its parent panel, reserving the appropriate amount of empty space 
for itself

3) the face is invisible, it does not resize/reposition itself together 
with its parent panel, the positions of other faces in the panel 
aren't influenced by the presence of the face

4) the face is visible, it does not resize/reposition itself together 
with its parent panel, the positions of other faces in the panel 
aren't influenced by the presence of the face

Possible implementations:

===A


Define a new SHOW? facet (you may indicate your preference to use 
a different attribute name, if you like), which could be set to one 
of the following four REBOL words, corresponding to the above defined 
face show states:

A.1) VISIBLE
B.2) HIDDEN
C.3) IGNORED
D.4) FIXED


(you may indicate your preference to use different words, if you 
like)

---Advantages


*The user can to determine the show state of the face by examining 
just one attribute, the SHOW? attribute.

*When using an appropriate function, the user will be able to change 
the show state of a face by evaluating a

    SHOW-FACE state

expression.

---Disadvantages


*Data are not normalized, seen from a data-related point of view 
- if a user sets the FACE/GOB/SIZE value inappropriately (e.g. if 
FACE/GOB/SIZE is 0x0, while the SHOW? attribute is set to FIXED, 
or, if the FACE/GOB/SIZE is non 0x0, while the SHOW? attribute is 
set to HIDDEN), the state he obtains will not be consistent.

*Speed - since it is necessary to test which of the four variants 
has been chosen, we need to use four tests in resizing code, i.e. 
the code becomes slower.

*More complicated code - it is necessary to take care the state is 
consistent, which may require more complicated code, maintaining 
state consistency.

*Documentation - the users need to be aware, that not all changes 
produce consistent state.

===B


Since the invisibility of faces is already implemented by setting 
the FACE/GOB/SIZE value to 0x0, we need to implement only an attribute 
telling, whether the face resizes/repositions with its parent. A 
RESIZES? attribute (you may indicate your preference to use a different 
name of this attribute) is used for the purpose in this variant, 
possible values will be TRUE and FALSE.

---Advantages


*Normalized data - all four possible state combinations are meaningful, 
and consistent.

*Speed - when needing to test whether the face needs resizing, only 
the RESIZES? attribute needs to be checked.
*Code simplicity

*Documentation - the user does not need to memorize the possible 
inconsistencies

---Disadvantages


*The user does not have the SHOW-FACE function, but, if required, 
it can be implemented easily, it can even use the keywords mentioned 
in the A variant, just translate the state to respect the B implementation.

*The user will not find the keywords in the face data, but it does 
not look like a disadvantage one should be afraid of.


So, please, indicate your preferences for the show state implementation. 
As far as I am concerned, I am strongly in favour of B, so the initial 
score of the show face poll is:

A:B = 0:1

hmm, regarding your question: the VISIBLE is OK. The initialization 
of HIDDEN is probably not, since 0x0 sets up the INIT-SIZE, which 
is needed for resizing, i.e. it should be nonzero even for HIDDEN, 
I guess

it's not just show/hide face anymore. SHOW-FACE sets face's visibility 
and usability mode. Maybe you can come up with better name, this 
one is left from previous implementation even if does currently something 
different.

if "SHOW-FACE sets face's visibility".. than it should have name 
SET-FACE... btw... I'm with Pekr that  "HIDE face" is nicer than 
"SHOW-FACE face 'hidden"... I don't expect to use word SHOW when 
I want to HIDE something.

Cyphre, so your POV changed from 11:48 where you proposed that init 
code for button should set max-size if user sets size in dialect?

To be fair, we could say, that if I specify button 5x5, what to do 
then? Should min-size be set to min(init-size, min-size)? What if 
user is an idiot, and sets the size to -5x-5? :-)

this sets init-size without touching min/max-size.

BTW our current decissions is:
- style writer sets min/max/init-size
- user can override init-size by specifying a pair!
- dialect errors out of min / max-size is violated

The strategy that seems to work best is to have platform-specific 
scripts in different directories and set system/options/module-paths 
to pick the sets of files that are appropriate.

Graham - sqlab's code uses random sets, no? What is non reproducible 
exactly?

on the large set ... not small sets

And DIFFERENCE treats the two strings as _sets_ of characters (i.e. 
they are internally UNIQUEd) and returns only those characters which 
are not present in both strings.

Paul, set-word!s are syntax for SET. [a: b: 2] is syntactical short-hand 
for [SET 'a SET 'b 2]. SET returns sets a word to a value and returns 
that value. If you don't want to pass the result of (SET 'b 2) as 
argument to SET 'a, then just don't do it.

How I understand objects currently. They use 2 sets of values (one 
with pointers to word's literal ) which can be shared between objects. 
A one set of values which are unique for each object.

INCLUDE.   why is everyone dancing around this word.  <sigh>

this is what the word means.  


union is merging two sets.  Including, means adding to a set.  since 
a set is by definition a collection of unique items, I don't see 
what's the problem.

/local x  sets the value of x to none in the F above.
if F was defined like so instead (R2)

>> f: make function! [/local x [any-type!]][[x:] value? 'x]


then you can call it with with unspecified /local arguments and it 
will yield #[false]

>> f/local
== false

It treats the series like sets. One of the group with UNIQUE.

yes copy control was implemented because of real world issues trying 
to use early R3 alphas and also because the lack of control in R2 
makes many big data sets very hard to manage in R2.

I expect   true == (0 AND 0)   if that is what you mean.

but I think I understand the deeper question you are hinting at.


AND/OR actually are two completely different ops rolled into the 
same wrapper.


on one part they act like a logical comparisons, on the other hand, 
they *also* act as a "bitwise" operators.  

because of this we cannot compare data *with* logical! or none! values.


I would gladly separate both as two sets of ops.   && ||  symbols 
come to mind to use as "bitwise" ops.  

I'd keep AND/OR as logical operations *only* allowing us to compare 
any data as logic comparisons.

It's a long time since I studied set theory but if I remember correctly, 
the union of two sets is not dependant upon the order of the elements 
in a set.


So shouldn't the UNION of two sets of bits really be one of three 
values {0}. {1} or {0,1}.


I know this is knitpicking but I'm very used to XOR being bitwise.

Peter, your right about the set functions and blocks. We should mention 
that in the ticket and say explicitly that these would not be set 
functions when applied to integers and such. The problem is that 
we would need bitwise operations to apply to strings and binaries 
as well, and these functions already treat them like sets. So there's 
a bit of functionality overlap that we have to deal with or else 
something will be lost.

don't know if it works in R3 though....

	;------------------------------------------------------------
	;- DATE STUFF
	;------------------------------------------------------------
	; use this to prevent having to supply a spec all the time.
    ; the /default option of date-time sets this.
	default-date-time-spec: "YYYY/MM/DD-hh:mm:ss"
	                             
	
	;--------------------
	;-    date-time()
	;--------------------
	date-time: func [
		""
		/with spec ; specify

  /using thedate [string! date! time!] ; specify an explicit date instead 
  of now()
		/default
		/local str date-rules thetime
	][
		vin/tags ["date-time()"] [date-time]
		
		str: copy ""
		
		
		either spec [
			if default [
				default-date-time-spec: spec
			]
		][
			spec: default-date-time-spec
		]
		
		unless thedate [
			thedate: now/precise
		]
		
		
		if thedate/time [
			thetime: thedate/time
		]
		
		filler: complement charset "YMDHhmspP"
		;spec: "YYYY/MM/DD-H^^hmmP"
		;error: spec
		itime: true
		
		unless parse/case spec [
			some [
				here:
				(error: here)
				["YYYY" (append str thedate/year)] | 

    ["YY" (append str copy/part at to-string thedate/year 3 2)] | 
				["MM" (append str zfill thedate/month 2)] |
				["DD" (append str zfill thedate/day 2)] |
				["M" (append str thedate/month)] |
				["D" (append str thedate/day)] |

				["hh" (append str zfill thetime/hour 2)] |
				["mm" (append str zfill thetime/minute 2)] |
				["ss" (append str zfill to-integer thetime/second 2)] |

    ["rrrr" (append str fill/with/right/truncate (remainder thetime/second 
    1 4) "0" )] |
				
				["P" (append str "#@#@#@#")] | 
				["p" (append str "[--:--]@[--:--]")] | 
				["H" (
					itime: remainder thetime/hour 12
					if 0 = itime [ itime: 12]
					append str itime
					itime: either thetime/hour >= 12 ["PM"]["AM"]
					)
				] |
				["h" (append str thetime/hour)] |
				["m" (append str thetime/minute)] |
				["s" (append str to-integer thetime/second)] |
				["r" (append str remainder thetime/second 1)] |
				["^^" copy val skip (append str val)] |
				
				[copy val some filler (append str val)]
				
			]
			(replace str "#@#@#@#" any [to-string itime ""])
			(replace str "[--:--]@[--:--]" lowercase any [to-string itime ""])
		][
			print ["date-time() DATE FORMAT ERROR: " spec]
			print ["  starting at: "  error ]
			print ["  valid so far: " str ]
		]
		vout/tags [date-time]
		str
	]

By "valuable difference" I don't mean that one or the other behavior 
is preferable all of the time and so we should choose one, I mean 
that both patterns of behavior are valuable in different circumstances 
and so we need to support both. Both sets of functions are needed 
in mezzanine code, as they are now.

There is a conceptual conflict between the treatment of splitting 
into parts by length and splitting by delimiter, that has the effect 
of limiting both sets of behavior. It would be better to put the 
delimiter splitting into a separate function called DELIMIT. This 
would allow the dialected variants of SPLIT and DELIMIT to develop 
separately without conflict, and make the SPLIT dialect easier to 
understand. Then you would have two relatively simple functions with 
a clear distinction between them.

For instance:
>> 1 + #"a"
== 98
>> #"a" + 1
== #"b"


The latter looks alright to me, the former looks weird, like a to-integer 
is missing. Can't say why though. I know why the result is an integer! 
(the left side sets the datatype returned most of the time), but 
any math that treats a char! as a number rather than as a non-numeric 
ordinal value just seems weird to me.

It's still an ongoing issue, as many asian nations don't like each 
other very much, so commonalities in their character sets are often 
controversial.

if you can compile arm and mingw binaries in cygwin, you already 
have two sets of compilers installed

Using the Cygwin compilers turned out to be unnecessary, so I can 
get away with just the Cygwin base install plus make for the NDK, 
TDD-GCC for the host kit, and Git for Windows for the Git support. 
Only one set of compilers per target platform, but 3 mostly duplicated 
sets of general command line tools.

no .. exclude operates on sets

when managing data sets, you often want to know what is unique "within" 
that set.   

duplicates and singletons are often-required things you want to know 
about a data set.

I think I'd like to see a flag or something that sets the number 
of decimal places for decimals, and number of places for time.

Bitsets are useful for intexes and certain kinds of parsing (LL first 
and follow sets, not just character sets). Other stuff too.

it also prevents us from having to create sets of predefined filters 
which will:

    -be unknown and forgotten quickly (e.g. more things to remember, 
    bad)

    -might only really be usable by a very few functions to begin with. 
    (not very usefull)


(this relates to the alternative that ladislav pointed, using a dataset)

though there is a lot of memory overhead for large series, I'd rather 
have a refinement on all sets probably   /only  or something similar, 
to have them work "in-place"


come to think about it, maybe we could make a CC wish for this, seems 
like its been a topic of discussion for years, and pretty much eveyone 
agrees that both versions are usefull.

Right, we need settable defaults that can match the local C standard 
or whatever it is that sets the standard locally (JNI perhaps).

But if you don't have a way to specify the padding and maybe alignment, 
you won't be able to interface with C code that sets that stuff too.

If you look at the Win32 API, for example, it's a huge mess of sets 
of deprecated interfaces that were replaced by new sets with slightly 
extended interfaces. So it's not only an issue in unreliable Internet 
programming, but also in low-level system programming

then we need typesets and attribute sets :-)

Harking back to the discussion of Red strings, it might interest 
you to know that the SMS character set uses the 0 position for the 
@ character. Just one of many character sets that won't work with 
C strings. C string support is good for Red/System apps that have 
to access C string library functions, but is a bit too limiting for 
Red itself.

I think I would just be annoyed that Red tries to "fix" the wording 
of a REBOL function, as it means that you need some kind of alias 
table or must fix scripts or remember two sets of functions in your 
head.

Also, there are several good high-level widget sets on top of HTML5 
that we could use as back-ends for client-side GUI, like Extjs and 
jQueryUI.

btw, wrt the licensing issues... if it may help you, one thing I 
can say is that you will never make (real) money from a programming 
language itself.

once the language actually works, here are possible money making 
potentials:

-the tools which go around it  (frameworks, IDE, etc).

-integrated modules, individual or sets.


-consulting services & adapting the language and its tools for specific 
(high-profile) clients.


-corporate funding by a company , university or research institute 
which uses the language in core components and wants to make sure 
the language stays alive.

-apps/web sites you build with the language.

-donations from enthusiasts (many apps live solely on this!).