AltME groups: search

Doc, it's firmly an 8-bit CPU emulator, but it can certainly serve 
as a general example to implement other emulators in Red/System

Kaj: 
love your r2 bindings for zeromq 
i've been trying to implement the push-pull ventilator example

ventilator:
REBOL []

do %zmq.r

pool: zmq/new-pool 1
socket: zmq/open pool zmq/push
zmq/serve socket tcp://*:5555

ventilate: func[][
  print "sending"
  u: form time/now/precise
  zmq/send socket to-binary u 0
]

wait 0:00:60 [
  ventilate
]

worker:
REBOL []

do %zmq.r

pool: zmq/new-pool 1
socket: zmq/open pool zmq/pull
zmq/connect socket tcp://*:5555

data: copy #{}

forever [
  zmq/receive socket data 0
  prin ["."] 
  print to-string data
]

...but the worker crashes

now, as the situation has changes, some minor topic, but maybe better 
to open it sooner than later - some ppl adopted .r3 extension for 
R3. When working with console, I constantly forget to type .r3 and 
type .r instead. I know, that we want to distinguish R2 to R3 scripts, 
but as R2 is most probably not going to be opensourced, and although 
it will serve us well for quite some time, what about once again 
get back to .r extension even for R3?

Hey everyone,

How about a group called "Inspiration" where we could put links to 
things that might serve as inspiration for futur REBOL apps or use... 
such as MoonEdit or Jotspot.etc.

What you are missing is what Pcode really is. Pcode was originally 
Rebin for Pascal, but has turned into a generic term for encodings 
that serve this function for a wide variety of languages or semantic 
models. Rebin _is_ a Pcode.

I'll do me very best to tread here lightly...


- First, I have no direct control over this world, but will indeed 
try to help.


- Paul, it is a little bit like an "after school special TV show" 
when you accuse someone without knowing for sure.  It might all fit 
for you, but perhaps siding with best in your fellow man would serve 
you better than siding with the worse?


- If I were to make a guess here, someone, not understanding the 
interface to remove themselves from a bunch of groups, might have 
in fact gone out and deleted them instead, and may not even realize 
they did this.

if you serve more than one world, there are cases, when altme.com 
sends to to incorrect ports ....

hmm... that seems a bit silly. if you change your network provider, 
you can't serve anything.

In Chicago we have a mayor who is an avid cyclist. He has been repainting 
a lot of streets on the north side to give them cycle lanes. The 
problem is that many of these streets aren't wide enough for this. 
In some cases 4-lane roads were converted to 2-lane to make room 
for the bike lanes, in some cases parking was sacrificed. On many 
roads this has caused traffic to slow to a crawl. Of course these 
bike lanes are barely used, and mostly serve as a place for drivers 
getting out of their parked cars to stand. The mayor isn't affected 
by these problems though, as he is a southsider.

anyone know if I can only serve 1 world from a PC?  Or is there some 
way to startup a second world?

Efish, I regularly serve at least 2 and sometimes 3.

Yes, I serve as back up for Gregg.


Henrik, if you are asking "who can people contact" as in send an 
Email, I don't know...  this is why I want  to unify the REBOL ML 
on Google Groups.  Then someone can post in the ML, and anyone who 
happens to see it can post it here.


The option is the way we do it now, which is if someone contacts 
anyone already in here, they tell us in Accounts, and we create an 
account because that person is vouching for them.

Does that answer your question?

Yes, the other thing is that it may be served from anywhere, so how 
well a world scales depends on the machine running it. If you want 
the best scalability, serve it from a good machine, or have them 
host it.

Brock, do you know if the port is stored with the lookup server? 
That is, once created, will that world always serve on the alternate 
port, even if it's the only world running?

Is it possible to serve more than one world on the same computer?

AltME is sort of "replaced" by R3 chat on R3, in that Carl usually 
doesn't visit this place very often and prefers R3 chat. The practical 
implementation of R3 chat is different and the outcome makes it serve 
a different purpose than AltME.

Ahhh, they were added by Dirk Weyland to make it compatible with 
his serve-it web server.

If pure functions which serve datatype conversion work one way, it 
is imo inconsistent that it does not work the same way in the reverse 
mode ....a

Plus, the unit tests would serve as documentation of a function's 
behavior, intended or not.

They can serve as a base to implement the full unit test for Rebol, 
and save time.

The sandbox port I wrote may serve as an example, except that it 
wraps a file port and not TCP.  I hope to put together an article 
on this (before ports are changed completely in R3 :)

Native library access to C is not enough, I need fast COM and .NET 
integration. Now that the DLR is out I may be able to implement the 
.NET stuff, when I get the time. With plugins and user-defined data 
types I could integrate COM. Mostly I would like to use /Services 
and I can't unless I can call them from .NET, or serve up .NET services 
to REBOL quickly. I think the lower overhead compared to SOAP would 
be a plus, but it has to be seamless, and as fast as local services 
when running on the same machine.

Now I can ask a more precise question:

here is my problem:
I have an application object app that "serve" two client c1, c2

app: make object! [
	hset: func [c] [k: c/name]
	hget: func [c] [print ["k=" k]]
]

c1: make object! [
	name: "pippo"
]

c2: make object! [
	name: "pluto"
]


The handlers of app, use k as internal container, but of course it's 
shared between clients:

>> app/hset c1
== "pippo"
>> app/hset c2
== "pluto"
>> app/hget c1
k= pluto   


I would bind k (and every set-word in the handler) to the object 
passed as parameter so the last line would produce:

>> app/hget c1
k= pippo

Now I come to this solution, using blocks instead of funcs in app

app: make object! [
	hset: [k: name]
	hget: [print ["k=" k]]
]

c1: make object! [
	name: "pippo"
	vars: make object! [
		k: none
	]
]

c2: make object! [
	name: "pluto"
	vars: make object! [
		k: none
	]
]

This produce:

>>  do bind bind app/hset c1/vars c1
== "pippo"
>> do bind bind app/hset c2/vars c2
== "pluto"
>> do bind bind app/hget c1/vars c1
k= pippo


This works, but I have to collect every set-words used in the handler, 
into the clients (using Ladislav set-words http://www.fm.tul.cz/~ladislav/rebol/set-words.r
)


sw: copy [] repeat h next first app [sw: union sw set-words app/:h]

b: copy [] repeat w sw [insert tail b reduce [to set-word! w none]] 
vars: make object! head b
c1/vars: vars
c2/vars: vars


Now, my questions are:
1) Is this approch "rebolish" ? There's a smarter way to do it ?
2) If I need a function in my app like:

app: make object! [
	hset: [k: avg a b]
	hget: [print ["k=" k]]
	avg: func [x y] [aux: x + y aux: aux / 2]
]


How can I collect the aux: word in avg function, and bind this function 
to c1/vars ?

paul, I never used construct. can it serve nested constructs also?

yes, when I started it I was thinking that it could serve as some 
food for thought on R3 concur model .. because Pekr and others mentioned 
erlang a lot, so I wanted to see how erlang would look in rebol at 
all

most smtp servers do ip filtering on the input.  this allows them 
to know who is sending the email to them and will only allow ips 
they serve to connect.


since your hosting account is probably on a remote server, it won't 
be allowed to send data via your home smtp server account.

Nice idea. But there is no foolproof way that does not leave someone 
with a screenreader seeing (or not seeing) double.

Also, may mess things up for (the few I hope) people with early CSS 
implementations in their browsers.


I'm still looking for an argument to convince me that one URL should 
serve two separate resources depending on user-agent sniffing.

cool, just post a message in Accounts and one of the men-in-black-hats 
will serve you.

we need something like VID2, created from scratch (or almost), and 
strong enough to serve as a building base for applications.

REBOL [
	Title: "REBOL Logo Maker"
	Purpose: "Generate a Hilight image"
	Author: ["Carl Sassenrath" "Gabriele Santilli"]
	Version: 1.0.0

 Rights: "REBOL logo is a registered trademark of REBOL Technologies, 
 USA."
]

debug?: false
hilight-colour: 255.0.0 ;0.112.99	;request-color
character: uppercase request-text
font-type: "font-sans-serif"
xthin-chars: charset "I!J"
thin-chars: charset "1234567890ABDEFPRSZ"
normal-chars: charset"CGHKLNOTUVXY"
wide-chars: charset "WMQ"
xwide-chars: charset ""
special-chars: charset "*"

if font-type = "font-serif"[
;get-char: func [character][

 if find character xthin-chars 	[if debug? [print "xthin"] char-offset: 
 8x2 char-size: 14]

 if find character thin-chars 	[if debug? [print "thin"] char-offset: 
 7x2 char-size: 14]

 if find character normal-chars	[if debug? [print "normal"] char-offset: 
 6x2 char-size: 14]

 if find character wide-chars	[if debug? [print "wide"] char-offset: 
 5x2 char-size: 14]

 if find character xwide-chars	[if debug? [print "xwide"] char-offset: 
 4x2 char-size: 14]

 if find character special-chars	[if debug? [print "special"] char-offset: 
 5x-2 char-size: 28]
;]
]
if font-type = "font-sans-serif"[
;get-char: func [character][

 if find character xthin-chars 	[if debug? [print "xthin"] char-offset: 
 9x2 char-size: 14]

 if find character thin-chars 	[if debug? [print "thin"] char-offset: 
 7x2 char-size: 14]

 if find character normal-chars	[if debug? [print "normal"] char-offset: 
 6x2 char-size: 14]

 if find character wide-chars	[if debug? [print "wide"] char-offset: 
 5x2 char-size: 14]

 if find character xwide-chars	[if debug? [print "xwide"] char-offset: 
 4x2 char-size: 14]

 if find character special-chars	[if debug? [print "special"] char-offset: 
 4x-2 char-size: 26]
;]
]



font-style: make face/font [style: 'bold  name: font-type  size: 
char-size]

hilights: [
	transform 0 1 1 0x0 0x0
	fill-pen snow pen snow
	circle 10x10 9
	fill-pen black pen black
	circle 13x13 9
	fill-pen hilight-colour	;0.112.99
	pen hilight-colour	;serve dark green - 0.112.99
	circle 11x11 9
	fill-pen white pen white
	font font-style
	text 1 char-offset character 
		;]
	;]
]



insert-event-func func [face evt][
	if evt/type = 'resize [
		bx/size: out/size: evt/offset
		bx/size/y: out/size/y: evt/offset/x / 23 * 23
		n: to-decimal bx/size/x / 23
		;t-x: to-decimal bx/size/x / 23 + 5
		;t-y: to-decimal bx/size/y / 23 - 2
;		probe highlights ;logo-shape
;		halt
		hilights/3: n
		hilights/4: n
		loc: to-pair :t-x :t-y
		show out
	]
	evt
]


view/options center-face out: layout [
	origin 0

 bx: box 23x23 green effect [draw hilights effect [key: green]][  
  ;logo-shape][	; 

  file: request-file/only/save/file join %hilight- [character ".png"]
		if not file [exit]
		if not find file ".png" [append file ".png"]
		save/png file to-image bx
	]
][resize]

hilight-colour: 255.0.0 ;0.112.99	;request-color


font-style: make face/font [style: 'bold  name: "font-sans-serif" 
 size: 26]

hilights: [
	transform 0 1 1 0x0 0x0
	fill-pen snow pen snow	;white circle
	circle 10x10 9
	fill-pen black pen black	;black circle
	circle 13x13 9
	fill-pen hilight-colour	;0.112.99
	pen hilight-colour	;serve dark green - 0.112.99
	circle 11x11 9
	fill-pen snow pen snow
	font font-style
	text 1 6x0 "*"
]

view center-face out: layout [
	origin 0
	bx: box 23x23 50.50.50 effect [draw hilights effect []][ 
		file: request-file/only/save/file %hilight.png
		if not file [exit]
		if not find file ".png" [append file ".png"]
		save/png file to-image bx
		img: load file
		colour: pick img 1x1

  repeat i length? img [if colour = pick img i [poke img i 0.0.0.255]]
		save/png file img
	]
]

hilight-colour: 255.0.0 ;0.112.99	;request-color


font-style: make face/font [style: 'bold  name: "font-sans-serif" 
 size: 26]

img: make image! 23x23
img/alpha: 255	;make bg transparent


draw img [
	transform 0 1 1 0x0 0x0
	fill-pen snow pen snow	;white circle
	circle 10x10 9
	fill-pen black pen black	;black circle
	circle 13x13 9
	fill-pen hilight-colour	;0.112.99
	pen hilight-colour	;serve dark green - 0.112.99
	circle 11x11 9
	fill-pen snow pen snow
	font font-style
	text 1 6x0 "*"
]

file: request-file/only/save/file %hilight.png
if not file [exit]
if not find file ".png" [append file ".png"]
save/png file img

What I just don't know - what if you would like to serve e.g. holding 
down shift key and holding down left mouse button? e.g. for dragging 
something? I mean - you need both functionalities of on-something 
- how do you mix code then in those code-blocks?

but because of the async calls, the Rebol micro-webserver can't serve 
the pages correctly.

In fact, the Inline function can be implemented as a mezzanine, which 
would serve as a proof, that you can do without it, if you wish.

Most of R2/Forward was added to R2 itself with the 2.7.7 release. 
The rest was added to 2.7.8 (release pending). There are some limits 
as to what R3 functionality can be retrofitted into R2, but you'd 
be surprised. Also, look at the source - it's also meant to serve 
as documentation about differences between R3 and R2, although it 
can be a bit on the advanced side here and there.

Yup. The ticket needs to be made either way. If it is rejected it 
will serve as documentation of the issue.

Sorry, Carlos...I'm a Debian user, but I serve the web using Cheyenne. 
 I'm not sure what you need exactly, but I would have started here 
 http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_mime_magic.htmlSo one 
you have the mod_ file in the right place, it seems you need to configure 
with

MimeMagicFile conf/magic


to use the default list of magic numbers.  If you need more drop 
another note.

EC2: Yes, the problem is that you can't save a state. So EC2 is more 
for serve-only stuff but not for interaction and state storing. At 
least that's how I understand it.

In two weeks I am going to set-up new Linux server finally. I have 
got the HW - SuperMicro board. I will install Mikrotik RouterOS on 
it, and it allows me to serve as a FW/router, and iside of it I want 
to install Ubuntu server in XEN

It has NOTHING to do with MT and your claims are simply false. If 
you are so brave, then go, and replace your bad MT with another Debian 
Box. I wonder, if it would make you more happy. MT is not bug-free, 
I never claimed anything like that. My MT suggestion was relatad 
exactly to the SIMPLICITY factor. You call it complex? Man - it is 
like you never used REBOL, right? MT brings simplicity to the wifi 
providing, that some other solutions are not even funny to suggest.


MT Linux abstraction is like a VID dialect upon Linux - yes, it can't 
do everything. But I can't come-up with anything it does not do for 
me for 99% of my usage cases. Yes, I noticed your OpenVPN problem, 
not supporting UDP, and yes, it sucks, but it does not mean that 
MT does not serve its purpose.

So in the end - use what you are happy with. But don't try to put 
down publicly system, you have no deeper experience with, please, 
as apparently all WISP providers are happy with it (and not only 
them, some ppl go so far to replace Ciscos), and it might serve well 
to some other ppl, looking for simple yet sufficient solution for 
their usage case. By reading your comments, noone would probably 
ever considered Mikrotik, and that is all it is about - let's not 
create myths, where there are apparently no myths involved, and the 
system might work satisfactory to many ppl  ...

As dispatching requests is most likely much faster than processing 
a request, a single web-server should serve a lot of users and a 
bunch of machines do the processing.

This is the coarse grained multi-process approach.

As a rebol process is only 10 Mb.... I can serve lots of users on 
cheap VPS's, load balance them, data backup in S3.  No others invited 
until I get things stable enough. eed to ge things going

Kaj, it depends on how many FCgiServer you define. The more you define, 
the more concurrent requests you can serve. But be carrefull: many 
FCgiServer means many open db connections, which needs more resources. 
FastMagic! keeps in cache applications and db connection. Indeed, 
opening a connection is time consumming as well reading files on 
the drive...

This is interesting indeed, but this means you can serve one resquest 
at a time... But I guess it would be easy to manage a pool of connection. 
Where is cheyenne available? I would like to adapt FastMagic! on 
it with a DB pool and use it for the Rebol Directory

yes, no problem, and the issue with the bots - if the bot don't support 
cookies (non of them does), i can give him whatever I want, I'm not 
cheeting, I just may think, that it's somethink like LYNX and serve 
him pure text pages:) And if he don't like it so it's his problem 
(or its?) And with the robot.txt file - ugly bots will not respect 
robot.txt file anyway :)

Some bots (the more evil ones) have an even more evil human at ther 
side....Those bots can handle cookies, and will also use the human 
to step them through any logon procedures.
So, technically, yes: bots can use cookies.


But on the cloaking issue: if you show the *same* content to any 
visitor that does not use cookies then that is *not*cloaking, even 
if you serve different content to those that do. So no problem there.

e.g. you have a list-box for fruits: ["apples" "bananas" "cherries"] 
.... that can't be sufficient in any way - it could be, if those 
"texts" could serve you as index to some localisation table:

langs: [cz "Cesky" us "English" de "German"]
fruits: ["apples" "bananas" "cherries"]

trans: [ ;table-id (name), lang, key, translation
fruits  [
    cz  [
       "apples" "jablka"
       "bananas" "banany"
       "cherries"  "tresne"
    ]
 ]
] 

select trans/fruits/cz "apples"

just an example (not practical one :-)

the httpd is trying to serve up a page, and i wouldn't let it.??

Thanks Will - I have uniserve running and can serve up static webpages 
and the sample cgi that Doc provided. How do I allow RSP or ML to 
be loaded so that a page that uses them does not have to run as CGI 
and flag .rsp or .rhtml files as handled by RSP.

Yes, surely parse can do it... I am just debating .. I am not sure 
if mongrell is really that awesome.


I was thinking that speedwise the upper bound of the http server 
is determined by socket handling and http parsing probably? Meaning 
that even if you have everything in ram and prepared you can't serve 
more thatn that. Cheyenne has a *very* high upper bound for a dynamic 
language (I was many times expressing my surprise and getting 250 
req/s was the reason I returned back to rebol with doing all webapps 
in it now).

I will look into getting the Powerpack going.


I will need to spend some time reading through the archives to ensure 
that the original objective remains clear.

That should help serve as the guidelines for making decisions down 
the road.

SQLite is not memory based imo. It was RebDB. SQLite is the coolest 
thing on earth for the purpose it is supposed to serve :-) I mean 
- small, embeddable SQL engine. MySQLLib is not good solution imo, 
as it does not use SQL syntax and is not even free for embedded stuff.

The other main thing that will likely trip you up is understanding 
how words, contexts and bind, together serve the role that variables 
or symbols serve in other languages. I could go on about that, but 
you would be better served by reading the extensive articles that 
Ladislav, Gabriele and I have already written on the subject.

So R3's MAP takes 3 parameters:
- The data

- The word or block of words that will serve as "parameters" for 
the block.
- The block of code.

>> help map
USAGE:
        MAP 'word data body

DESCRIPTION:

        Evaluates a block for each value(s) in a series and returns them 
        as a block.
        MAP is a native value.

ARGUMENTS:

        word -- Word or block of words to set each time (local) (word! block!)
        data -- The series to traverse (block!)
        body -- Block to evaluate each time (block!)

maybe LABEL can serve both purposes, and set the label word to the 
absolute position.

most rebol users have the plain rebol/view it would be nice to offer 
this lib to them too the best solution i found is to create a program 
to serve the comlib function via tcp

I would like to have answered:


1) what technique to use for "timestamping" - do we continue with 
timestamps against one central time, or do we use hashes, or sequencing 
numbers, or mixture of mentioned techniqueues? We might look how 
others do it ...


2) better support for possible conflicts - imagine following scenario 
- you have some reblet, e.g. Contacts - one person starts editing 
it, then another person starts editing it too. First one syncs (saves 
changes), then second one does the same - changes of first ones are 
lost. How to aproach this - introduce some kind of resources locking? 
(not real locking, but we are message based, so could be queued)


It could work as follows - person 1 wants to edit some record. Edit 
button posts request-for-lock. Lock is assigned. I other person tries 
to edit, it will not obtain lock. We could even introduce protocol 
level support, so that the person is informed, who has the lock, 
and how long. The trouble usually comes, when person goes off-line 
after the edit started - we need to remove dead-locks, so by default, 
I would lock for 20 minutes e.g. and the lock would have to be renewed, 
if person 1 wants to work longer with the given document ...


another scenario is, when you actually start editing something which 
might require locking, but you start already being off-line. We could 
create lock-request, just not synced yet. Once you go on-line, you 
simply check seqno, if the lock is possible, and the given record 
not modified. But what if it was modified in the meantime? e.g. you 
might be working with stock system and someone else in the office 
sells few units, for which you may start writing offer for to another 
customer. Tough scenario - would like to know your opinion. Maybe 
some things simply need to be done on-line only?


3) I needed small file-sync scenario - could use IOS, but IOS can't 
sync and "forget". Simply idea is to have different kind of syncing 
techniques, so e.g. for file transfer you have dir to sync, if correctly 
synced, log it, forget it, delete it on client and or server (or 
not, it depends)


as for IOS, local storage could be encrypted (or not), imported into 
RebDB (no single better solution so far introduced for rebol), sync-per-record 
or record-set could remain (record=document). RebDB on Serve would 
speed things up significantly too ...


another possibility is to think outside the IOS terms, in more general 
way - simply thinking about world of objects, being in various states, 
with various life-time around internet and on-line or off-line devices. 
I think that maybe we could find some simpler solution than SyncML 
and the likes ...


another point - such techniques should be transport independent, 
so I would not like to hear that it needs this or that ;-)

So, anyone?

Funny enough, I will be posting soon two articles: "Why I don't use 
the Mac" and "Why I don't use Linux"  and I was going to open this 
up to everyone to do battle with me on each point.  The idea being 
that all can learn from this and make the move to the machine they 
like best.  For some people they might read one of the articles and 
say "those five things don't matter to me, so I'm going to buy a 
Mac now" 


For others, it will serve as a thermometer of when it is worth going 
to Mac or Linux.

It wouldn't be so bad, if the money was used better to serve the 
public instead of trying to control it with silly laws.

As for the word "delimiter" I made sure it wouldn't be exported to 
the external programming environment - no keyword arguments in REBOL, 
and I didn't use it for a function name or refinement. The more precise 
meaning of the word makes it a better choice for source that may 
serve as documentation, using the help or source commands.

Ashley, I might know what you mean, but there should be one more 
complete/robust one, which will serve for "general" app development 
- simply put - most common styles behaving in OS compatible way, 
so that developer might feel safe to push rebol based apps around. 
Of course I can imagine specialised dialected UIs for presentations, 
multimedia, etc.

 I think [small] domain-specific GUI's built on View are the way to 
 go.

 -- I agree 100%. Better for RT to give us good docs on how to build 
 those, than trying to build them all in house.


but there should be one more complete/robust one, which will serve 
for 

general" app development" -- There is. Today it's called VID. It's 
not perfect, can be very limiting, and has big holes (e.g. no focus), 
but it's there.


I think the point Gabriele made--that this is how Carl works, and 
we have to live with it--is very important. That's not an easy thing 
to do, but I think getting too many people involved will not work. 
I hope there is a small team of technical people, and that someone 
makes note of what has been requested. I don't expect perfection, 
but I don't think RT will ignore what has been said in the past either.

Once we have some sane documentation of the Windows printing model 
(read: the code you've written so far) it shouldn't be too hard. 
Not off-topis, btw: We can adapt your code to R3 and it might serve 
as the germination of a REBOL printing model.

The browser as the launch platform for applications has always been 
an interesting idea. The fundamental problem of the sheer complexity 
of it can be solved with R3. If done right, it can completely wipe 
the floor with browsers and AJAX. I think the problem is that we 
haven't been speaking in a language that people can understand, such 
as "browser", "web2.0" and "webserver", but instead "dialects", "VID", 
"Viewtop" and "X Internet" and people go "huh?".

Some things I believe are needed to do this right:


- Browser form factor. People are used to browsers, not Viewtops. 
What's always the first thing a complete newbie computer user uses, 
when wanting to do anything on the internet? A webbrowser. I don't 
want a desktop inside my desktop. There are tens of solutions for 
such things and they are almost all forgotten. Carl is doing the 
REBOL browser. When you fire up R3, you will get what looks like 
a webbrowser and acts like one. The concept has to work equally well 
for people like us, as well as 5-year-olds and 95-year-olds.


- Do apps that are similar to webapps, like GMail. That's a quick 
way to compare. Don't you think a 50k GMail look-a-like inside a 
REBOL browser running at native speeds would be _slightly_ impressive? 
Remember to say that you can serve 5 times more users with the same 
bandwidth. REBOL can help make raw numbers look better without much 
effort. Google would have to use it as a content platform. They have 
no other choice. :-) Chrome? What's that?


- Plugins suddenly are very flexible. You don't have plugins as in 
Firefox, but helper scripts that can enhance/change your browsing 
experience. 15k full screen document reader that prettifies plain 
text files? Sure thing. Blog posts presented in that would be much 
nicer to read. Out goes the PDF reader.


- Do apps that are completely out of the league of AJAX, such as 
multithreaded P2P systems. In fact, why not build P2P capabilities 
right in? Have different instances of the browser allow users to 
connect and chat, when they are visiting the same "Rebsite". It's 
sort of like going into a physical store and chatting with the other 
customers and you decide to exchange business cards. Initial contact 
without needing email. Do the same thing with chat support for an 
article that you bought at that  "rebsite". Current websites are 
almost completely anonymous. You don't feel you are entering a live 
community. Coded in REBOL/Services.


- Webpages are now REBOL scripts. In R3, scripts can be closed and 
encrypted, so you can't read the source and you can sell scripts 
and have them signed. The best you can do right now is some kind 
of code obfuscation.

- Windows, MacOSX and Linux version.


- "A webbrowser that directly supports OpenGL without obscure/limited 
3rd party plugins." Say that again in your head.


- It's very important that the public get to see that creating REBOL 
scripts for the browser is very similar to creating plain HTML pages. 
REBOL scripts can be served off a plain webserver. All the infrastructure 
is already there. Or how about serving scripts from the browser itself? 
AltME can both be a client and a server. It's that P2P thing again.

- Browser would run wherever R3 runs.


- Market it as Web 4.0. Market it as a direct competition to current 
webbrowsing.


- Browser would be a 500-600 kb downloadable exe that starts immediately 
without installation. From deciding to get it, to be using it to 
browse "Rebpages", it should not take more than 30-45 seconds.

- We need AltME in that browser (Altissimo?) as well as QTask.

For developers:


- It's easy to create an HTML file in notepad and display it in your 
favourite browser. It's going to be equally easy to create a REBOL 
script in notepad and see it running in your REBOL browser. A 5-year-old 
who has just learned to type, should be able to create a script and 
display it.

- One language for everything.


- Everything is free. You can start out with notepad. The barrier 
for creating content is about as low as it can get.


- You wanna code slow web 2.0 apps or fast web 4.0 apps? Hard choice, 
I know.

Henrik - thanks for the info, but anyway - eh, why to have it at 
'view level, which gives you the possibility to adjust the direction 
only once? Hmm, maybe it makes sense, because at panel level you 
can use panel, or group to "change" orientation, although those styles 
serve different purposes ...

If the RebDev serve runs on R2, how does it handle character encoding? 
Does it simply ue the default Windows codepage on the client machine?

Henrik - as there is not much comfort in RebDev chat - not using 
other gob types contradics their purpose, no? I do understand, why 
keeping GUI desing simpler might have advantages, but stating that 
effects are not needed so far, because Draw dialect can serve us 
well for GUI purposes, might also mean, that we could discard effect 
pipeline? :-)

re Functor:

* in my opinion it does not make sense to initialize static local 
variables during function call, since they are static and therefore 
supposed to persist, so the only time suitable for the initialization 
seems to be the function creation time

* the initialization (IMO) can perfectly serve another purpose: all 
initialized (during function creation) variables shall be static, 
while the other variables shall be dynamic IMO

Currently,  i have a crash  when i start the chat with r3-a48 under 
Vista.
Obviously, i can't see what is the bug, 

And when i try with the previous version i got  (a42)
i got this error: 
--- Note: checking for new messages

*** RebDev Error: server connection failed, is server down? (server-failed)
** Script error: cause-error-here has no value

** Where: error if unless request-serve if check-msgs check-new make 
context do
catch applier do try chat
** Near: error result


We have no way to return in a safe situation and can't guess what 
is the bug indeed.


Is Carl aware of that problem, i didn't see anything related to a 
crash of a48 when starting the chat ?

Perhaps we need a little print-spooler in a multi-user environment? 
May be a good job to solve using REBOL. It should be able to receive 
printjobs from plenty of users at the same time (using multi-threading 
much like the way Apache serve multiple users with web-pages) and 
then send the jobs to the printer one at a time. Maybe someone already 
did it in REBOL? Or if there is a server at hand, just send the jobs 
to the spooler in the server. I'm not too familar with spoolers. 
Will they leave the PostScript printjob as it is, and just send it 
to the printer? I could figure, that Windows spoolers would like 
to change the PS into something else using a print-driver.

To much here to keep up, just picking " The problem is, then you 
have 5 "REBOL/Plugin" objects in Downloaded Program FIles. Thoughts 
on that approach?":

AFAIK with COM, a CLSID is not bound to a file. You can "serve" multiple 
clasids from the same file.  The idea is, that interfaces are frozen, 
if you need more functions you add another interface. which may include 
the same functions as the old one. So instead of using multiple files, 
you can have  the newest one implementing the old interfaces too. 
But then you have to be exactly compatible when using the old interfaces, 
at least thats the  idea. As firefox clones COM, i guess they have 
a similar feature.

wrt own window on top to do the window messages, etc -- I'm all for 
slamming itself on top of the browser, and not going through it to 
embed view.   or make it a "windowed" control, which is how IE does 
SELECT elements.  The complexity there is having it crop to be part 
of the page.  I think wndows media control is like that, where you 
can pick a windowed version, which performs better (probably from 
similar things that you are running into.  MSAgent runs in the browser, 
and is allowed ro roam anywhere on the screen in an irregularly shaped 
winoow.  It also starts a server process which handles all calls 
to the interactions with applications like IE and Office that take 
advantage of that aspect.  It's all asynchronous/multithreaded, and 
shuts down automatically when there are no more client controls to 
serve.


The DOM provides screen position information, but the downside is 
that with embedded controls like Adobe SVG viewer and Flash is that 
they will respond correctly to transparency (showing html page background 
through transparent parts of control  -- never got REBOL plugin to 
do that, which has something to do with wmode="transparent"  or something 
similar

I just wonder, if R3 could be made a DLL too? We have R3 core library, 
and the hostkit sources. Then we have rather powerfull extension 
architecture, which could serve to link to plugin library. Having 
R3 available would be much more interesting imo, as it has new gfx 
core.

including the imminent liquid release on rebol.org.  but I want to 
finish a tutorial, which will serve as both a final test and a learning 
tool for new users.

Does Cheyenne have an option to limit which network adapters it will 
serve to? For example, I have 5 adapters on this computer (ethernet, 
wireless, 2 VMware, Hamachi), maybe 6 counting localhost, and I would 
like the web server to only be visible to the virtual adapters, not 
even opening a port on the physical ones.


I remember this being difficult in REBOL, that REBOL would always 
open server ports on all available adapters, so you would have to 
inspect the incoming connections and filter. Have you come up with 
a better workaround for this, or a way to do it properly?

The bugtracker will be fully open sourced and will also serve as 
demo of a complete online application done in RSP with a DB backend 
(MySQL currently).

Just downloaded Linux Mint 3.0 vmware image.  Installed rebol and 
cheyenne and it all works .. except it won't allow me to serve on 
port 80

Graham, if you really want to serve tiff images and maybe at high 
resolution, look here:
http://iipimage.sourceforge.net/demo.shtml

web services usually use http, but don't serve out cgi nor web "pages"... 
so the return values are always processed.

Hey Doc, thanks..
One thing I was trying with Uniserve years ago went like this.. 
1) A http request is received as usual. (port 80)

2) Depending on the request, Uniserve would launch a process that 
may run for hours (ie: reading a website looking for changes), and 
would occasionally send a message back to the ip address, but on 
a different port (communicates to a flash script on the original 
response page, that in turns manipulates the DOM.)


So, what's the best method to run these small scripts as to not block, 
and close without closing the server. 

I still want to serve up an HTML response, so it's a hybrid of sorts.. 
sends back a page AND runs it as a handler too?

by default, there's no limitation. If you add the 'auth keyword in 
a web-app definition, you need to be logged in before being able 
to access any resource (that's why you get redirected automatically 
to the login page). Even when 'auth mode is on, you can freely serve 
resources from the /your-web-app/public/ folder.

with RSP, would there be an option to only run .rsp files and not 
.r? if I want to serve .rsp pages and allow downloading of .r scripts?

Is there anything that would cause Cheyenne to crash? I've not yet 
tracked down the bug, but every time I click a specific link on one 
of my .rsp pages, it just dies and needs to be restarted. Unfortunately 
it's now gone so far that it seems not to want to serve pages anymore 
even though it's running. Under OSX, I get this log output:


Aug 20 23:31:16 Macintosh com.apple.launchd[136] (com.rebol.cheyenne[68207]): 
Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 68212 PPID 68210 
rebol

Aug 20 23:31:16 Macintosh com.apple.launchd[136] (com.rebol.cheyenne[68207]): 
Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 68211 PPID 68209 
rebol

Aug 20 23:31:16 Macintosh com.apple.launchd[136] (com.rebol.cheyenne[68207]): 
Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 68210 PPID 1 
rebol

Aug 20 23:31:16 Macintosh com.apple.launchd[136] (com.rebol.cheyenne[68207]): 
Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 68209 PPID 1 
rebol


Are there any file permissions, that if set wrong, would cause cheyenne 
to stop serving pages?

1. Variable overwrite is a possibility. 2. I don't use PHP fastcgi. 
3. If I could get Cheyenne to serve pages again, I'd be happy to 
recreate the problem. The server is (was?) running on port 80. I 
don't see what or how that could change

got it to serve static pages, but rsp is still not running. I must 
go now, but I'll try continuing tomorrow.

I'm trying to serve JPGs through an RSP Page.  The following is the 
entire contents of the RSP Page:

<% 
	do %init.r

 results: SQL rejoin [{SELECT data FROM images WHERE id="#^{} select 
 request/content 'id {^}"}]
	unless empty? results [
		img: first first results
		response/reset
		response/set-header 'Content-Type "image/jpg"
		prin img
		response/end
	]
	print "FAIL!!!!"
%>


This seems to almost work. But I have to load the result twice in 
REBOL to actually get the image.


view layout [image load load http://localhost/image.rsp?id=375A5EDB9102ECB08B3A185186650D3C]


Displays the image.  The value returned from the Database is Binary! 
so it should be the same as read/binary as shown in the example of 
how to do this in the Cheyenne docs, shouldn't it?

Any ideas?

Robert, one thing you can do for sure is reverse proxy rsp to cheyenne 
and serve static from lighthttpd 8)

1. Good point. You need to use the session/active? to test if a session 
has been automatically created, if not, that means no cookie support 
(require to serve a RSP page first, then check on the next call to 
a RSP page, an HTTP redirection might help you do so). Then, you 
can use session/start to manually start the session and send back 
the SID.

Very interesting idea. My easy-cgi tries to serve as a "package", 
which can be just copied to any cgi-enabled site. I am at very beginning, 
not really trying to do more than simple cgi stuff, sqlite, sessions 
....

If you want to serve .r files as static files, just remove it from 
the BIND-EXTERN command in config file.

I've scrapped the previous remark system in favor building remark 
v3 right away.  this will actually help me build the mod much faster 
and will provide 100% dataflow engine from its first release.  every 
single programmable entity within mod-remark is now based on a plug. 
 the architecture I have now is becoming very orthogonal... instead 
of building up different objects for each level of config, I think 
I'll be able to reduce it to ONE.


these models will serve as references for the !compilator to create 
persistent  !documents... note that !documents are multi-leveled... 
you build documents by linking up document together.... so if only 
part of a !document is dynamic, only that part will cause processing... 
and by dynamic, I don't mean that its cgi... I mean it has actually 
changed.  down to a single HTML element.   that's what I am aiming 
in any case.


!documents can be stored at any level... from server down to specific 
page and single session. caching is embeded in liquid so it should 
be pretty fast, and inter document data sharing should allow us to 
make it very RAM efficient too.

If the talk is not documented, it would be cool to have somoene serve 
as secretary, and get it all written down as points.

I think that kind of IOS product could serve as an app distribution 
framework, and as such, should be free, whereas apps (reblets) could 
be free or commercial ...

something which is a result of your agent's processing identified 
as strange... basically, his inputs serve as senses or nerves and 
their processing create reactions.  the term "strange" can be relativised 
within your agent's logic but is not a term within the application 
itself.

Several questions:


- what is meant by Severity field of values - text, block, feature? 
I do understand major, minor, trivial, etc., but not those mentioned 
...

- for better searches, I would expect field 'fields to be filled 
in with every field form contains. E.g. I want to filter using 'Built-in

- CureCode, if slightly refined, could serve as auto changelog generation 
system. But Carl (or responsible person) would have to fill-in 'built-in 
field. In the past, I e.g. proposed addition of small table called 
Releases to RAMBO for such purposes. It would contain named releases. 
Main base could have small helper, value 'next pre-filling 'buil-tin, 
once someone markes it as built. 'next would be related to the closest 
relese from the Releases table.

URL  = /bugs/register.rsp
        File = /home/henrikmk/serve/www/bugs/register.rsp

        ** User Error : Server error: tcp connection failed 
        ** Where: none 

        ** Near:  [insert smtp-port reduce [from reduce [addr] tmp]]

BTW, I spotted another error with the captcha:

URL  = /bugs/captcha.rsp
        File = /home/henrikmk/serve/www/bugs/captcha.rsp

        ** Access Error : Port none not open
        ** Where: confirm
        ** Near:  [save/png img: make binary! 25000]


At that time I noticed the image was not displayed in the browser, 
but it only happened once.

I added a single Priority 100 task to serve as  template.