AltME groups: search

Anton, here are the groups I'm having trouble with: !RebGUI, Advocacy, 
Core, View, Tech News (old...). I've also reset the message limit 
limit to 100 per group.

Tried synching to the RebGUI discussion twice, but got disconnected 
at more or less the same percentage. Is it possible to have AltME 
download the "chat files" on a per "number of messages"  basis, instead 
of downloading the entire chat file in one session? That way people 
having synching problems like myself could at least download the 
messages from the discussion group a little at a time until the entire 
"chat file" is downloaded, rather than be frustrated when we get 
disconnected at 99% and retry synching again. It will also lessen 
the annoyance of other people seeing several dots made by the same 
poster.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers!

I had to reconnect to this world again to get the latest updates. 
However, the last group I was sitting in was !RebGUI. After the update, 
it moved to the top like it should, because there was new posts in 
it, but it was not painted red and it was not selected after logging 
in, so it must have been tagged as read somehow.

yesterday I got request of my friend Bobik here, asking how to localise 
it  :-) I suggested him to look into RebGUI calendar instead ...

ah, now I tested it, RebGUI works with system locale - besides that, 
the week starts by monday ;-) btw - could RebGUI code be reused in 
official rebol distro? e.g. as far as request-date is concerned, 
or even request-dir, it is of a much more quality than rebol's built-in 
ones  ....

Sometimes users ask for things that are not practical for other users, 
and thus us poor developers have to make choices that can leave some 
unhappy :)
Suppose I wanted this code to execute the first code block....

  do http://synapse-ehr.com/forums/showthread.php?120-RebGUI-table

....That's a reasonable request for me. But is it for all users, 
such as Rixbot?

Ashley documents the bug on his Rebgui pages.

Janko; you may know this; dobeash.com has RebDB as well as a SQLite 
driver.   RebGUI with RebDB ...  livin'   :)

also remember, there are two button versions - button, and btn - 
slightly different. You might also be interested to look into RebGUI 
VID alternative ...

yes, R2 was kind of rather badly documented. And VID2 is really not 
that easy to hack, extend, beyond what it does. In the past I was 
reluctant to use RebGUI, because it looked rather unatractive, but 
that is not case anymore ....

Ashley can now release a new version of RebGUI as well :)

Chris and I did some work on an ARROW style some time back. We'd 
like to offer it up if RebGUI can use it.

I'm working on dropdown adaptation to REbGUI  so send it to me

Asley if you want to have a look to it it's here (no adapted to RebGUI 
yet ;) maybe tomorrow or sunday comming with a dropdown first implementation 
at the same time if I have enought time ;) ): http://shadwolf.free.fr/arrow-RebGUI.r

Ashley, simple question.  Is the display/min-size expected to always 
open atleast the size of min-size.  I noticed it does not, however, 
when you attempt to resize the window, it will not allow resize smaller 
than min-size.  See example 2.1.2 in your RebGui Display guide.

I work a some time on the porting of arrow widgets  basing me on 
gregg submition ;)  you can find it there: http://shadwolf.Free.fr/arrow-RebGUI-port.r
some work must be done ;) but I think Ashley could understand more 
than me what is needed ;)

Latest build available at: http://www.dobeash.com/files/RebGUI-018.zip

Highlights include:

	- New pwd-field widget
	- Updated tab-panel & radio-group widgets
	- Timer widget removed
	- Added Ctrl+Left & Ctrl+Right (word left / right) to edit feel
	- Display User's Guide updated to reflect previous changes
	- Menu widget and tabbing deferred until 0.1.9


Note that face edge, font, para and feel now default to none. Use 
default-* objects if your widgets need these attributes (this brings 
these attributes in line with the RebGUI philosophy of "absent unless 
specified"; and removes all the attribute: none assignments).

Ashley, it would be really interesting to learn why you decided to 
write RebGUI and how you went about doing it. It would make a great 
article for Rebol.org.

UI design guidelines: thanks Chris, I was trying to find those the 
other day. I'll add that link to the RebGUI Widget Designer's Guide.

Have you been following what Ashley has been doing with RebGUI ?

Well  In fact I figured out there was lot of problems with my first 
 port of the arrow and arw widgets made by Chris & Gregg  initialy 
for VID/AGG. So now it's mutch better I solve all existing problems 
in my first implementation.  I made lot  of code cleaning. I let 
implementation samples in commentary and comments maide by initial 
authors ;). Can be found here: http://shadwolf.Free.fr/arrow-RebGUI-port.r

My actual effort in dev leads me to rebGUI project so MDP-GUI is 
in pause until rebGUI reatch stability then I would make a brand 
new version of MDP-GUI including the RebGUI look&feel. Once all this 
work will be done I could switch back to "One render/input window" 
problem :)

is there a one-liner I can type on rebol console I can use to see 
something built with rebGUI. just curious how it looks and feels...

REbgui wasn't forge tobe one linered  (no dialect for the moment 
...)

so things like view layout [ btn "EXIT" [quit]] would be writed in 
more than a sigle line in REBGUI ;)

Ashley : Chris made a minimalistic version of the arrow widget based 
on my actual version HERE IS THE LINK:  http://www.ross-gill.com/r/arrow-RebGUI-port.r
about 100 lines  ;)

Latest build available at: http://www.dobeash.com/files/RebGUI-019.zip

Highlights include:


 - Integrated language localization (see http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/locale.html)
	- New arrow widget (run %arrow.r to see it in action)
	- Use of as-pair
	- Minor updates to pwd-field
	- title-group simplified

Known issues


 - radio-group fails under 1.2.1 and rebface 1.2.10 (but not view 
 oddly enough). Comment / uncomment radio-group block under %tour.r 
 to see.
	- Need a "safe" implementation of 'construct for 1.2.1

Pekr: It's all explained in http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/locale.html


Brock: radio-group does this already (set of mutually exclusive choices) 
and I was contemplating a check-group widget which uses the data 
attribute to store a block containing state information for each 
check-box in the group.


shadwolf: menu and tabbing are still WIP. The arrow widget is integrated 
into %widgets.r, I just ran out of room (> 1024 pixel width) with 
the current %tour.r. Once the scroller and spinner widgets are complete 
I'll redo %tour.r breaking it down into sub-widget categories (the 
real solution is to enhance the tab-panel widget but one thing at 
a time).

Brock: validation is also on my ToDo list (you can see the beginnings 
of it in the field widget character length limits). A couple of questions 
though (both how it is done in .Net and how it *should* be done in 
RebGUI):

	What's the granularity of the validation?

 Does it allow the specification of a mask (e.g. for phone numbers)?

 Is it validated as I type, when I leave the field, or when I save 
 the form? (Or is it flexible enough to let me choose the level of 
 validation?)


shadwolf: Haven't really thought about it much, but I figured the 
tab-panel redraw feel was a logical place to do the work.

WRT my question about extending/customizing layout. Would it be possible 
to add something to RebGUI so that this is possible:
	if my-var > 5 [optional: button red 100]

cool :-) I had that problem with the first RebGUI alpha, until I 
changed the 'as-pair definition.

Excellent Shadwolf. Glad to see things are still active and progressing 
on this. I wish I weren't so busy at the moment, and I hope the community 
will help to make RebGUI a model for future projects.

Alpha2 build available at: http://www.dobeash.com/files/RebGUI-020.zip

Highlights include:


 - New, unit based sizing model (see http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/display.html)

 - Improved language localization (see http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/locale.html)

 - New arrow, chevron, check-group, led-group, scroller, spinner and 
 drop-list widgets
	- Lots of minor fixes
	- show redefine removed
	- Use of -1 instead of 9999 to denote auto-size
	- Aesthetic improvements (use of gradients)
	- %tour.r substantially rewritten

Known issues

	- spinner and drop-list widgets need more work
	- scroller needs more work (resizeable dragger)

In progress

	- Improved tab-panel (shadwolf)
	- Menu (cyphre / shadwolf)
	- tabbing
	- field input validation (field input masks, etc)

That leaves less than half a dozen widgets to go!

	list		single column
	listview	multi-column
	treeview
	popup-menu	context menu
	status		status bar with one or more “segments”

Rebgui starts to look very nicely polished (UI wise), just a bit 
WinXP-ish, but it never mind here ... maybe OSx users will complain 
later :-)

Robert: LED-Group attributes can be changed at runtime with:

	led-handler/pane/2/data: true
	led-handler/pane/2/text: "Test"
	show led-handler


but the specification (number of LEDs and orientation) is fixed at 
specification time. I have no plans to change this.


Pekr: Most folks are familiar with WinXP, it is something to model. 
The basic RebGUI color scheme is controlled by less than a dozen 
words, and arrow / chevron / other is fully inheritable; but the 
"look" (e.g. tab shape and active shading) is hard-coded in most 
cases. So the answer is that you can easily change the cosmetic aspects 
of the UI but not the fundamentals.

Gregg: known issue.


Volker: Not sure which way you mean. If you want to contribute new 
widgets that work with both VID and RebGUI then I'll be spending 
time optimizing them for RebGUI which will break their VID compatibility. 
If you mean that you want to make the RebGUI widgets work under VID 
then feel free to do so with the widgets I have authored. For other 
widgets, please contact their author(s).

Ashley: changing RebGUI and vid sothat styles are interchangeable.

IMO this complicates the RebGUI widgets unecessarly. It would be 
nice to have a wrapper for RebGUI widgets that make them VID compatible. 
But than only as a oneway. RebGUI -> VID not the other way.

a simple way could be 

1) VID -> RebGUI : a 'face widget for RebGUI, to put any prebuilded 
face (ie made by 'layout) in a display,

2) RebGUI -> VID : a 'make-face -like function to build a reusable 
RebGUI face

have the rebgui-button working in vid (great success ;) developer/users/volker/mrg/test.r

Nice, I understand what you want to do now ... create a GAL (GUI 
Abstraction Layer) that enables RebGUI widgets to be used in VID 
with zero RebGUI changes. Interesting to see whether you can get 
it working the other way (VID -> RebGUI) as painlessly! ;)

For VID in RebGUI, an external face widget :

Usage: 
my-face: layout [field "just a field" [print face/text]]

display "A RebGUI display" [
    ...
    x-face [data 'my-face action [print "Hi!"]]
   ...
]

Well after one day of work on the multicolumn list  here is a little 
screen shot of what I succed to do http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list.jpg

lastest screenshot of the listview item ... http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list2.jpg

Latest build available at: http://www.dobeash.com/files/RebGUI-021.zip

Highlights include:

	- Specification dialect is now VID compatible (and 35% slower)
	- request-color and request-date added
	- Span attribute changed from tuple to issue
	- Couple of minor fixes
	- %tour.r has an additional "Requestors" tab


I wanted to get this build out before folks went too far down the 
converting from VID to RebGUI and vice versa path. If a parse expert 
(I'm not one) could suggest performance improvements for the main 
display parse loop that would be great.

I addapted my actual listview work to rebGUI 0.2.1 ;)

Robert: on switch version : trying - but some difficulties. A rebgui 
declaration is of kind :
any [ global-parameter | global-parameter-with-arg argument | 

         opt set-word! word! any [integer! | pair! | ...  | keyword [integer! 
         | pair! | ...] ] ]

the problem with that is a) the optional set-word!, b) for widgets, 
both values and keyword/values are allowed

with 'switch it's far less readable (for arguments, we have to separate 
keywords and datatypes and use "switch/default [] [swtich []]"), 
and takes more code

to see my advance on list-view widget report to the first working 
sample http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list2.r

I remake another time the buil-table function for the listview widgets 
( acording to Ashley  advices) build code is pretty easier to understand 
and the buildtime spend in the fonction is pretty inferrior than 
in the previous implementation (on an other data organasation ) rebgui-list2.r 
build-table time is 0.047 with regui-list3.r it's 0.31 (both  with 
data countaining 5cols  100rows on a PC ( win2k SP4, Amd sempron 
2600+, SDRAMM DRR PC3200) )

According to ashley advice the new data organisation is faster and 
it will be easier and fast for the sorting algorythm (still not implemented 
in rebgui-list3.r ;)

you can download here my current work here http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list3.r

http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list4.r

Having a minimal, lowest common denominator version of list is a 
good idea, considering the idea with RebGUI is to create a small/tight 
GUI environment.  Having a more advanced version (more code) running 
on the lighter GUI is also a good idea so programs written for it 
don't feel restricted.

http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list41.r

http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list42.r

http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list43.r:)

yes this a gobal problem on rebgui  ;)

http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list43.r

it didn't happen to me earlier, but is consistant since your second 
link to http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list43.r

http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list44.r

with http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list44.r?

http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list45.r

http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list46.r

http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list46.r

http;//shafwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list47.r

http://shafwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list47.r

dab adress sorry http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list47.r

Latest build available at: http://www.dobeash.com/files/RebGUI-022.zip

Highlights include:

	- Added drop-list, edit-list and auto-fill widgets
	- New splash function added (run %tour.r to see it in action)

 - Window management logic improved (disallows duplicate windows and 
 "sticks" child windows to first)
	- Couple of minor fixes and cosmetic improvements
	- %tour.r has an additional "List" tab

 - Prototype table widget added (run %table-002.r to see it in action)

Known issues

	- spinner and auto-fill widgets need more work
	- edit-feel needs to handle highlight, cut & paste
	- scroller needs more work (resizeable dragger)
	- table needs row selection logic added
	- edit-list needs auto-fill logic added

In progress

	- Improved tab-panel
	- Menu
	- tabbing
	- field input validation (field input masks, etc)
	- list-view (shadwolf)


With regards to "lists", I envision 5 types we need. They are (in 
ascending order of complexity):


 drop-list	- non-editable, single sorted column with single value 
 selection [optimized for < 100 values]

 edit-list	- derived from drop-list but editable with an auto-fill 
 field

 table		- multi-column representation of a DB table; used to create 
 something like a GUI SQL client with single-row selection [< 100,000 
 rows]

 list-view	- multi-column multi-media content (supports images, URL's, 
 etc); used to create something like a file explorer with single perhaps 
 multi-row selection [<10,000 rows]

 grid		- cell-level addressing and editing supporting simple spreadsheet 
 formulas and formatting [< 1,000 rows]

Every time the quality of RebGUI increase. Every new version is a 
must one.  Good job every one ;)

RebGUI is looking nicer with every build.

I just tried RebGui 022 and would like to report something: Lists 
- once you open selection menu, you can't close it by clicking outside 
of it. ESC works, which is good, but clicking outside the menu should 
close it imo ...

A 'recycle was done by RebGUI in earlier versions (patched 'show 
function)

new GC is inserted into 102 version but I francly don't see any différence 
in tour.r with RebGUI 0.22  we start a 6800 Ko and the memory is 
cleaned when 8500 Ko is reached and cleaned  to 7400 Ko ...

lastest version of my work on Listview widget is available here http://shadwolf.free.fr/rebgui-list49.r

Can we prefix all files required for a valid distribution of RebGUI 
with regbui-* please? Makes adding it to existing frameworks etc. 
much simpler.

Robert normally rebgui files are disigned to be placed into a sub 
sub folder

How about a merge of all RebGUI files into a single file called %rebgui.r?

Prefix rg- is OK with me. But remember, people don't know what rg- 
means, and rebgui is only four letters more but hundreds of questions 
less. Never shorten things just to shorten them... semantic is the 
key.

rebgui needs to be easy to use: Just copy, load and use. :-)) That's 
what I like about it.

Regarding scrollers and sliders in RebGUI: I examine a strange behaviour 
here. If you grab a knob near it's edge (left/right for horizontal, 
top/bottom for vertical scrollers) and drag it, you'll notice how 
the mouse pointer's offset to the knob changes relative to the amount 
that the knob changes it's offset from the scrollers boundaries. 
I haven't seen something like that in any of the (not so many) UIs 
I've came across, so I'd suggest that this gets fixed to conform 
to what people are used to.

I give the closest solution to the perfect one but to say you the 
truth I'm not a VID guru I only try to adapt the calculation made 
by Carl into his scroller VID  widget. But has the construction of 
the REBGUI scoller/slider widgets are different from the slider/scroller 
VID ones that explain why there some knobing effect :).  But I think 
we have 90% of the method and for a VID guru solving the knobbing 
effect is jut a question of spending like 3 minutes on the problem 
;)

Why does the following not work ? Anamonitor shows that the engage 
got into place, but the rate doesn't work. I seam to forget something,
 
with rebgui:

do %rebgui.r
display "test" [
    text "hello"
    do [
        face/rate: 5
        face/feel: context [
            engage: func [f a e][
                print 'bla
            ]
            redraw: detect: over: none
        ]
    ]
]
do-events


with vid:

x: layout [button "hallo"]

x/rate: 5
x/feel: context [
    engage: func [f a e][
        print 'bla
    ]
    redraw: detect: over: none
]

view x
do-events

???any help :-)

Maybe the project should be finish RebGUI, it is opensource and I 
think two of their main contributors will be there.

RebGUI: That's a very good idea. IMO RebGUI is the most active and 
broad-based community project of the last 12 months.

A subproject will be skins for RebGUI. That way we can split the 
team.

Gabriele, is it too late to add a presentation slot for me? (I thought 
I already had one (-  ) Topic would be:

	Building & selling REBOL-based solutions - theory and practice.

or if folks preferred:

	Building REBOL-based community projects - RebGUI case study.

With all of the talk about new widgets etc, maybe Cyphre would be 
interested in a tutorial or introduction into building new View or 
RebGUI widgets?

in all cases REbGUI must be presented as a main effort of cooperativ 
work on a bettring VID project that commes from the ground (people 
like me the basement or rebol coder community and not REbol Technology) 
This kind of work are essential iMO for a better diffusion of rebol 
and to make lighter the work of CARL upon REBOL VM ... Do carl can 
handle all alone ? Can't we apport a sort pf answer and show to rebolers 
and to RT that cooperativ work and hudge project are pretty usefull 
for educationnal purposes but for rebol large diffusion and adoption 
by the professional area ?

shadwolf, sounds like you are volunteering to present REBGUI...(wink, 
wink, nudge, nudge, say no more...Monty Python quote)

things like list sorting in widgets like table or listview in rebgui 
could profit form rebcode optimisation

On point 3, I know that is a goal of RebGUI, but the project underlines 
that it is not trivial to set up a UI of OS/typical Ajax quality 
out of the box.

Chris - rebgui looks old, dull to me. Look at ad-aware look for e.g. 
There are two things - typical application, as db-stuff, etc., you 
want them to be system friendly. But I don't want my cool widget/reblet 
to look like W9X app ...

What am I doing wrong here:

rebol []
do %sqlite.r
do %rebgui.r

if not exists? %id.txt [write %id.txt 1]

db: %indodex.db
either not exists? db [
    CONNECT/create/flat/direct/format db

    SQL "create table base (id, Nama, Alamat, Telefon, Handfon, Fax, 
    Email, Tgl_Nikah, Nota)"

    SQL "create table birthdays (id, Nama, Jenis, Hubungan, Tgl_Lahir, 
    Agama, Nota)"
][
    CONNECT/flat/direct/format db
]
unless value? 'ctx-rebgui [
	either exists? %rebgui-ctx.r [do %rebgui-ctx.r] [do %rebgui.r]
]
set-colors
tab-size: 120x55
fonts: reduce [font-sans-serif font-fixed font-serif "verdana"]
do show-cc: make function! [] [
display "IndoDex Ver. 1.0.1" [
    tab-panel #HW data [
        "Add" [

            label "Title:" priority: drop-list 30 #W "Pak" data ["Pak" "Ibu" 
            "Sdr." "Sdri." "Drs." "Dr." "Tuan" "Nyonya"] 20x5
            return
            label "Nama:" nama: field 
            return
            label "Alamat:" alamat: area 50x30
            return
            label "Telefon" telefon: field
            return
            label "Handfon" handfon: field
            return
            label "Fax:" fax: field
            return
            label "E-Mail:" email: field
            return
            label "Nota:" nota: area 50x30
            return
            button "Save" [
                (id: to-integer read %id.txt)

                SQL/flat/direct {insert into base values (id, Nama, Alamat, Telefon, 
                Handfon, Fax, Email, Tgl_Nikah, Nota)}
                (write %id.txt id)
                show-text ex-status "Saved"]
        ]
        "Edit" [
            
	]
	"Search" [
	]
    ]
]
]
do-events

Here's the latest version:

rebol []
do %sqlite.r
do %rebgui.r
unless value? 'ctx-rebgui [
	either exists? %rebgui-ctx.r [do %rebgui-ctx.r] [do %rebgui.r]
]
set-colors
tab-size: 120x55
fonts: reduce [font-sans-serif font-fixed font-serif "verdana"]

if not exists? %id.txt [write %id.txt 1]
i: to-integer read %id.txt
i: i - 1
either not exists? %indodex.db [
    CONNECT/create %indodex.db

    SQL "create table base (ID, Title, Nama, Alamat, Telefon, Handfon, 
    Fax, Email, Tgl_Nikah, Nota)"

    SQL "create table birthdays (ID, Nama, Jenis, Hubungan, Tgl_Lahir, 
    Agama, Nota)"
][
    CONNECT %indodex.db
]
do show-cc: make function! [] [
set-colors
display "IndoDex Ver. 1.0.1" [
            label 16 "ID:" id: text (to-string i)
            return

            label 16 "Title:" title: drop-list 30 #W "Pak" data ["Pak" "Ibu" 
            "Sdr." "Sdri." "Drs." "Dr." "Tuan" "Nyonya"] 20x5
            return
            label 16 "Nama:" nama: field 
            return
            label 16 "Alamat:" alamat: area 50x30
            return
            label 16 "Telefon:" telefon: field
            return
            label 16 "Handfon:" handfon: field
            return
            label 16 "Fax:" fax: fax: field
            return
            label 16 "E-Mail:" email: field
            return
            label 16 "Nota:" nota: area 50x30
            return
            button "Save" [

                ;UNCOMMENT THE FOLLOWING LINES AND YOU WILL SEE THEY DON'T WORK. 
                ANYBODY KNOW WHAT IS WRONG?

                ;SQL reduce ["insert into base values (?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, 
                ?)" id/text, title/text, nama/text, alamat/text, telefon/text, handfon/text, 
                fax/text, email/text, tgl_nikah/text, nota/text]

                ;SQL {insert into base values ('Pak' 'Ibu' 'Sdr.' 'Sdri.' 'Drs.' 
                'Dr.' 'Tuan' 'Nyonya' 'Jonew')}
                (i: to-integer i)
                (i: i + 1)
                (write %id.txt i)
                (i: to-string i)
            ]
            button "GUI Info [

                print [id/text " " title/text " " nama/text " " alamat/text newline]
            ]
            button "DB Info" [
                print TABLES
                SQLite/col-info?: true
                print SQL "select * from base"
                print SQLite/columns
            ]
            button "Halt" [
                halt
            ]
            button "Quit" [
                quit
            ]
]
]
do-events

Whoops. This should be in the RebGUI group, but I'm going to leave 
it here, since the script needing fixed is here.

Thanks pekr, I'll take a look at it. Next year, when I'll have more 
knoledge in RebGUI and Rebol2 I need to start a project which needs 
a database but it will be a single user project so SQL lite.is good 
enough.

well, of course ... but then what is large application in View then? 
RebGui, tonnes of tabs?

I think that VID is nice. Dialected aproach is the way to go, that 
is for sure. I would be OK, if VID would fix some things as - tabbing, 
cursor change, accelerator keys, visual focus representation to widgets, 
disabling/enabling (for business wide widgets), resizing, methods 
for drag & drop etc. Look e.g. at VID's feel - it was abstracted, 
that you have central storage of "feels", but was that abstraction 
used to any good by anyone? I like self-contained styles/widgets 
of rebgui better.

Just a rebgui client ..

LADISLAV POSTED THIS in rebgui group:


this DISTANCE? version looks twice as fast as the one currently distributed:

distance?: make function! [
	"Returns the distance between two points."
    p1 [pair!] "First point"
    p2 [pair!] "Second point"
][
	p1: p1 - p2
	p1: p1 * p1
    square-root p1/x + p1/y
]