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Hey Maxim, just a quick reply...


re 1) IMO that is not good argument. You can use GOB/DATA. It is 
really easy to change R3GUI rather to change GOB datatype.


re 2) Nope. There is no problem to have the current GOB/DRAW dialect 
for 3D commands. The current DRAW is completelz flexible and can 
be enhanced. Also if you are proposing abstracted way for 'renderers' 
then it shouldn't matter if you are rendering 2D or 3D objects so 
no need to have different dialects just because of 2D or 3D behaviour 
(see the OpenGL api, it is also mixed)


re 3) not sure what you are missing on the GOB! datatype..Can you 
clarify?


re 5) I disagree here: the 3D dialect is way to go. It should be 
possible to do a direct commands calls for simple things and use 
vertex arrays and other advanced features for bigger things. I don't 
see any problem why this couldn't be done by command dialect.

re 6) to 12) and the rest:
I'm not trying to make a 

cool" rebol plugin..." - so I hope you won't propose this Carl to 
put into the official HostKit distro :-P

The more you talk about your design the more it looks you are missing 
the point of Rebol need for HW acceleration in more generic sense. 
Don't take it personally, but your approach looks like just yet-another-opengl 
binding extension that every other language have. Until that I thought 
you are planning to do it in a more 'rebolish' way but nevermind, 
at least it is clear now. In any way I wish you good luck with your 
extension! ;)


BTW I think It's time to dust off my OpenGL accelerated R3 prototype 
soon... http://cyphre.mysteria.cz/tests/agg-hw.png(And it will work 
on *all* gfx cards made in the last 5 years ;))

its a brown torus:   http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/files/opengl-torus.png

COMPRESS uses the Deflate algorithm, plus an integer on the end for 
the length of the uncompressed data, for allocation purposes. It 
has the same limitations as any other Deflate compressor (zip, gzip, 
zlib, png, ...).

download latest version:
http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/files/renote.zip

macro-editor:

http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/files/renote-macro-editor.png

I also did a bit of gui polishing:
http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/files/renote-6.png

------------------------------------------
GLASS Release 003 is here:
------------------------------------------
http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/files/glass-r003.zip

----------------------------------------------------------
everything promised for this release has been done:
----------------------------------------------------------

-Editor style and associated text editor application (Cristoph)

http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/files/tutorial-image-style.png


-Encap friendly single file version of ALL glass libs, usable just 
like if they where external files. (Graham)

-The encap version of glass is all packaged within its own .zip file 
inside the root of the distro,  to make it easier to get started.

-Image style (jocko)
-it also has a pretty cool image style demo app.

http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/files/red-text-editor-v0.5.7.png

-quite a few nuts and bolts worked on here and there.

-reworked the folder structure a bit to make it cleaner (it shouldn't 
change much from now on), tell me what you think?

-Added original SVG files used to create icons as part of distribution

-Added a few reference glass-related images for demos and tutorials.

-windows have automatic title handling when you fill their labels. 
(shown in text editor)
-many libs have had their apis improved
-extensive HISTORY AND RELEASE NOTES in docs folder.

Oh my, SVG, what a pain...
Some strange bugs, i can't figure...

As you can see here http://sites.google.com/site/rebolish/test-1/lizard-grad-err.png

I've got some problems to map correctly the gradients on the shape 
they are supposed to cover.

i can't figure why the coordinates of the gradients in the SVG file 
are wrong.

It's not clear (http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/pservers.html#Gradients) 
where the gradients should start....

And what i got with rebol: http://sites.google.com/site/rebolish/test-1/lizard-rebol.png

Guys, i updated the lizard.svg rendered with Rebol http://sites.google.com/site/rebolish/test-1/lizard-rebol.png

To compare with http://sites.google.com/site/rebolish/test-1/lizard.svg.


I'm glad to announce that i see absolutly no differences inside Google 
chrome.

All the grandients (linear and radial) are perfectly rendered by 
Rebol.

Brian: I can't see how my code would be more optimized with map than 
hash (but I'm not a map! expert). For example, mime types lookups 
are made using a 1<=> N flat structure stored in a hash!.

make hash! [
	image/bmp	bmp
	image/gif	gif
	image/ief	ief
	image/jpeg	jpeg jpg jpe
	image/png       png
	image/tiff	tiff tif
	...
]

How can map! handle this easier than hash!? (looking up a mime-type 
based on a given extension)

Cyphre, you can see the transform bug here: http://www.fys.ku.dk/~niclasen/rebol/transform-bug.png

>> help run
USAGE:
    RUN file /as suffix

DESCRIPTION:
     Runs the system application associated with a file.
     RUN is a native value.

ARGUMENTS:

     file -- The file to open (file, URL) or command to run (string). 
     (Type: file url string)

REFINEMENTS:
     /as
         suffix -- (Type: string file)
>> run "screen.png"
** Script Error: Feature not available in this REBOL
** Near: run "screen.png"

Looks cool, and seem to be good result with the rectangle packing. 
I would like to see a PNG version without the artifacts though. :-)

Here is related script which I use to crop images according it's 
alpha channel:
>> do http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rebol/get-img-alpha-bounds.r

>> get-img-alpha-bounds load http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rebol/alpha-image.png
== [53 6 99 121]

The first REBOL natively Generated OpenGL hardware accelerated graphics. 
    :-D

http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/steel/R3-OGL.png

I did a few tests loading up OpenGL/GLut and it worked without a 
hitch... waiting for Carl to add a few features before I can continue.


screen shot of a rotating cube http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/steel/R3-OGL.png

$ ./r3 -sq
System object protected
>> append system/options/file-types [%.so extension]

== [%.bmp bmp %.gif gif %.png png %.jpg %.jpeg jpeg %.dll extension 
%.so extension]

>> import %ext/sample.so
>> add-mul 10 20 30
== 900

>> append system/options/file-types [%.rx extension]

== [%.bmp bmp %.gif gif %.png png %.jpg %.jpeg jpeg %.dll extension 
%.rx extension]

>> import %ext/sample.rx
>> add-mul 10 20 30
== 900

http://motoko.rebol.it/to-pair.png

It would be good, if you are right.


As an example of my use of R2, and where I can't use R3, look at 
this image:
http://www.fys.ku.dk/~niclasen/bachelor/dist.png


I'm working on my bachelor project in astronomy at the university. 
I'm going to make a simulation of comets at the Late Heavy Bombartment 
some 3.9 bio. years ago to test a theory, that the water on Earth 
came from those comets. A part of my work is to study earlier simulaitons 
of 10'038 comets made by others. I would like to see, how the distribution 
of their initial situation looked, so I made a little REBOL script, 
that plotted the 10'038 comets and the orbits of the planets, Jupiter, 
Saturn, Uranus and Neptun. The image is showing this. It took me 
very little time to write the script in R2, and I can use the result.

Can you see, I can't use R3 for such things?

http://www.rebol.net/docs/HTTPScheme state diagram.png

base-url: http://rebol.hmkdesign.dk/files/r3/gui/
img-url: func [id] [rejoin [base-url id %.png]]
ids: [%220 %221 %222 %223 %224 %225]
imgs: copy []
foreach id ids [repend imgs [id load read/binary img-url id]]
cur-id: first ids
show-next-image: does [
    cur-id: select join ids first ids cur-id
    set-face f-img imgs/:cur-id
]
view layout [
    f-img: image (imgs/:cur-id)
    btn "Next" [show-next-image]
]

but in agg you don't have  a proper way to handle fonts who wants 
to have flat texels to represent is document or hundreds of  png 
files in memory ... and that where glut and other extensions try 
to give solutions but the réalisaton is in général ugly.

but in opengl  you don't have  a proper way to handle fonts who wants 
to have flat texels to represent is document or hundreds of  png 
files in memory ... and that where glut and other extensions try 
to give solutions but the réalisaton is in général ugly.

it embed an SVG engine ( even if i'm sure a rebol / agg one blast 
it ) support of freefonts  support of png (but only this image format 
where rebol works with jpg etc...)

This is a screen shot from the Moscow tibetan OCR project http://www.buddism.ru///ocrlib/OCRLib21_07_2010.png

Again the text looks very different to that in Henrik's image

Today, I made some tests (again) with vectorial fonts using draw.

And... It's not that bad when the gamma correction is... corrected.

My test:

font: ["verdana" size: 15]
gamma 2.0
pen none 

http://sites.google.com/site/rebolish/test-1/not_bad.png
(look at the white text)

This is what I've got: http://box.lebeda.ws/~rebolek/pix/rebol/r3gui-01.png
. Left window is my current working version, right window is version 
from Henrik's server.

Small status update:


Cyphre has completed first version with keywords for draw blocks. 
This means you can now use the vertices of the box model for coordinates, 
instead of tediously calculating them inside the draw block.

http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/240.png

Style browser as it looks right now:

http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/241.png


Second validation prototype test window. The use of multiple draw 
blocks still doesn't work, so I'm resorting to funky yellow text 
fields to indicate validation state:

http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/242.png

http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/243.png- Shows proper indicators

http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/244.png- Shows validation report

you means something like this:  


http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/files/elixir-desktop.png

?

;-D

http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/247.png


Tab boxes now support drag and drop. I'll provide a built version 
tomorrow as I found a build problem tonight, so you can try it out.

Now provides a visible frame for keyboard navigation:

http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/248.png

Guys, time to crank up the volume and build a concrete roadmap for 
the GUI. I have a suggestion to further accelerate the development 
of the GUI: RM Asset will over time require some specific, but complex 
styles, that the community will need as well. We are developing a 
SCRUM tool, which you will need to use as a basis for discussions 
and development of these styles. Consider it also training to become 
a good style developer. For any needs, Cyphre, Bolek, Ladislav and 
I will be available to extend the UI base as needed to create the 
styles mentioned below. We also provide examples, training and help.


Many of these styles are focused for development of particular types 
of applications that open many, small windows inside a large work 
area for flexible construction of data analysis tools and other traditional 
Windows or Linux applications.


It could be a combination of how graphics shader networks are built 
(though without the need for zooming), to regular multi-document 
management. The ultimate goal is to build styles that allow a highly 
user configurable multi-document GUI to be described, using only 
the R3 GUI dialect and some helper functions that we already have.

These styles are generic enough to be usable in plenty of apps.

Inspirations for window arrangements:


http://houdini.dreamerzstudio.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/reflectiveShaderNetwork.jpg
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/docview/TabbedMDI/TabbedMDI.gif

Inspiration for segmented area management:


http://www.solidsmack.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/modo_501_RayGL_sample_002.jpg
http://jedit.sourceforge.net/jedit-snap-12.png

A list of general styles that definitely are needed:


- Style for doing multi-document window management, using various 
arrangements, window linking features, as borrowed from apps like 
Photoshop.

- Style for segmented area management, editable by users, for arranging 
tool areas, view areas. Segments are adjustable in size. Inspiration 
is JEdit and Modo.
- Multi-document window style, for use in window management style
- Tool window style, for use in window management style

- Tear-off style for toolbars and tool windows, for use in window 
management style

- Regular Windows-style menu bar with submenus, also for right-click 
popup menus.

More specific styles that will be needed later:


- High-performance style for graphing points and curves in a coordinate 
system, with zooming and panning.
- Gannt chart style: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gannt_Chart
- Harvey Ball style: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Balls
- Year calendar style
- Month calendar style
- Week calendar style
- Day calendar style

- MacOSX style tag field: http://kitara.nl/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/31.png

- Console style for input and listing results. This could eventually 
grow into the base for a View based R3 console.

- Highly ergonomic numeric input styles, that support unit conversion, 
inline math.

The question is where to start and what fits with you.


The time table is simply ASAP, and preferrably want some results 
within the next 2 months.


If you are planning R3 apps soon, it would be a good idea to have 
a look at the list to see where you may be able to contribute, as 
the GUI moves to beta status. RM Asset needs to spend time building 
end-user apps for R3 and the GUI is becoming ready, except for the 
above mentioned styles.

http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/252.png


SCRUM tool prototype GUI example. We are exploring how to organize 
the GUI, as the R3 GUI can be used to prototype things now. The next 
step here is to get it integrated with the database reactors prototype 
written earlier. If that is done correctly, we should be able to 
switch from a prototype file database to a different database backend 
(SQL based) without touching any GUI code.

Used MDP to generate docs. Not optimal, but at least something. What 
I did was:

- replaced =image-code by =image
- shortened path, as images are just in the same dir as doc

- gui-panel-sizing-3.PNG should be renamed to gui-panels-sizing-3.PNG
- gui-panels-visibility.PNG is missing

Any tip of how to play with gradients, trying to simulate some existing 
ones? IIRC, there was some R2 script? In the end I would like to 
mimick my HTC sense environment, as I like it and it looks decent, 
albeit maybe too white - http://204.145.67.138/shared/ScreenShots.png

The difference in these two images is one setting:

http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/024.png
http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/025.png

I think the edge/frame/border usage is a little confusing. EDGE was 
a standard feature for every face in VID and it was fixed how it 
worked. In R3, an edge would be implemented on the DRAW level and 
could basically mean anything, including what it means in relation 
to the box model. This is why I'm still advocating a special FRAME 
style, which in *one* place, settles the meaning and the appearance.


Furthermore, a FRAME could be required for any type of face, be it 
a form with many fields, a compound of faces or groups of compounds 
of faces, which need to be surrounded by a pixel accurate frame, 
like in the example below, which I had trouble defining properly, 
when I experimented with skinning:

http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/162.png


I had problems with it, because it had to be part of COMPOUND, and 
yet, certain COMPOUNDs would not have a frame and certain other panel 
types would also require the frame, but not be a compound. It is 
just much simpler to have it in a separate style.

ok, organigram... thought something like this -> http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/fx_files/24253/1/heatmap.png

Here's a plot of the DT for each "put" operation (m/(i): i) for 19M 
puts:
http://bolka.at/2010/rebol3/tmp/raw19.png

http://cyphre.mysteria.cz/pics/padding-indent.png

prefix? and suffix? just return true if a series starts with the 
same items in the same order as the second one.  
the second argument is the prefix to compare

so you can easily do:

unless suffix? file-name %.png [append file-name %.png]

http://static.red-lang.org/tmp/syllable-hello.png

Hello.reds running on MacOS X: http://static.red-lang.org/MacOSX-hello.png

http://web.syllable.org/images/screenshots/Desktop/0.6.6/Red-SDL-binding-on-SyllableDesktop-0.6.6.png

http://red.esperconsultancy.nl/screenshots/Red-System-GTK.png

gtk-view window [
	gtk-position-center
	"Widgets Overview"
	icon "Red-48x48.png"
	vbox [
		label "Vertical box"
		fixed [
			label "Fixed layout"
			5 25  button [50 25  "Quit" :gtk-quit]
		]
		hbox [
			label "Horizontal box"
			button ["Fill"] yes
			button "Expand"
			button ["Fixed"] no
		]
		vbox [
			label "Vertical box"
			button ["Fill"] yes
			button "Expand"
			button ["Fixed"] no
		] yes
	]
]

http://red.esperconsultancy.nl/screenshots/LazySundayAfternoon-Browser.png

http://red.esperconsultancy.nl/screenshots/Topaz-in-RedSystem-browser.png

Here's a screenshot of Kaj's GTK-widgets under Win7: http://static.red-lang.org/red-system-gtk-widgets.png

I put alla files in red-system/tests, including Red-48x48.png. I 
got GTK-widgets.reds running, but with "Window: skipping missing 
icon.". Where do I put the PNG? As far as I see there is no path 
defined for this file in GTK-widgets.reds. Using Win7 (x64). I thought 
the icon would be built in the exe. I tried now to put the PNG in 
the same dir as the built exe and the icon shows, but I still got 
that DOS terminal to open. Sorry for stupid newbie questions.

http://red.esperconsultancy.nl/screenshots/OSM-GPS-Map-browser-on-RedSystem.png

http://red.esperconsultancy.nl/screenshots/Champlain-map-browser-on-RedSystem.png

VLC is weak in my book - sorry that it belongs to vent most probably, 
but that player can't replay something as simple, as jpg or png files. 
How can they expect ppl using their solution to build player upon 
it? Every old LCD TV can replay images, VLC can't. Nor it has transition 
effects ...

Stats about audience for
http://world-lang.org
after the first 5 days of countdown.

See: http://www.fys.ku.dk/~niclasen/world/stats_20111128.png

Reached 1000 pageviews.

Stats about audience for
http://world-lang.org


Overview: http://www.fys.ku.dk/~niclasen/world/overview_20111204.png
Stats: http://www.fys.ku.dk/~niclasen/world/stats_20111204.png


Earlier stats: http://www.fys.ku.dk/~niclasen/world/stats_20111128.png