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world-name: r4wp

Group: #Red ... Red language group [web-public]
No easy way AFAICT, even if the big picture is there, you need to 
think and take decisions for a lot of details every day, even if 
you try to isolate parts, you always end up with some conflicts to 
solve both at the design and implementation levels.
Hi Doc, did you plan to integrate some Open CL programming acces 
to Red in any future ? Here is a summary of kernel programming with 
OpenCL - and to me this seems accessible to Red, some day : http://www.manning.com/scarpino2/ch04sample.pdf
 for a larger picture summary of the beast here is the link to the 
book I referred to :  http://www.manning.com/scarpino2/(this is 
the Manning's publiaher deal of the day ,,, that's why I talk abotu 
this now). May be just a new binding and some extensions are required 
- but I would like to know more about the actual modifs required 
- when a small time is affordable for you to answer ?
screenshot would be fine, or just take picture with your cell phone 
and upload it :-)
Needed 6 programs to do that! Schermafbeelding (screenshot?) to make 
the picture, Spotlight to find it, Imagewell to change tiff to jpg 
Preview to check Finder to put it in the right directory Filezilla 
to transfer Safari to check (clipboard to transfer the url to here)
In a couple of days, I'll release the first Red alpha with a blog 
entry to describe it, you'll be able to get a better picture of what's 
in Red already and where it's heading.
From ~Links group: "Could Red eventually become a contender for #6? 
 How strong will support for parallel processing be, eventually, 
in Red?"

#6: yes, that is one of the goals I want to achieve with Red. For 
parallel processing, the model I have in mind is the "parallel collections" 
from Scala. This means that when you are looping over a series, Red 
should be able to parallelize the loop code over n (CPU and/or GPGPU) 
cores at the cost for the user of only a change of the loop function 
name (in Scala, they use a "par." prefix for such functions). This 
requires that the compiler do a deep static analysis of the loop 
body to determine if it can be parallelized (e.g. iterations not 
dependent on results from previous ones). Now, if you also add SIMD 
support in the equation to leverage intra-core parallelism, you get 
a good picture of what I want to achieve. ;-)

So, I think a semi-assisted parallelization/vectorization of loops 
in Red is doable. To what extent and which final efficiency, I'm 
not sure before we build some prototypes.
Pekr: you have a wrong view on what the Red ecosystem is and will 
be. It is probably caused by 15 years of limited options from RT 
and closed-source nature of REBOL products.

In Red ecosystem, like in any most other languages ecosystems, you'll 
be able to choose GUI between different options. Don't give a wrong 
picture of Red by assuming that you will be limited to only one choice.
It doesn't make much sense to me to add features that nobody will 
use, just because we can add it, doesn't mean we should. For beginners, 
if they can't get a good picture on picking values with accessor 
up to FIFTH, I can hardly think that adding more will be of any help. 

The only reason for having them is the above code pattern used by 
Carl, but it can't be used for now in Red. Also, users are free to 
add more accessors names in their own code if they feel the need 
for it.
Now after observing development of several GUI systems, there are 
always some particular things I find wrong with them: They were designed 
with small details in mind rather than the big picture. This means 
that when a developer uses a GUI system, he'll find that some things 
are easy, while others are very hard. For example, none of our GUI 
systems are particularly designer friendly, meaning that building 
a skin requires a programmer with artistic skills. There are not 
many of those around and that's a real problem. Saphirion's R3 GUI 
was derived from Carl's work in a way, where several parts were rewritten, 
because they didn't scale enough for real-world GUIs. The rest of 
the work has been about beefing up the R3 GUI to handle what is needed.

Development often seems to go in isolated sections: Building styles, 
building a layout engine, event handling, skin system, animation 
or whatever, without a properly coherent view on the whole thing. 
We talk about how we have a really nice feature, but that feature 
may not mean much, if it's not functioning in a coherent way with 
the rest.

If I were to restart VID Ext Kit as a new GUI system, I would rewrite 
it top down: Start with an application with the simplest, purest 
GUI description and write the GUI system down from there. I would 
recommend that a GUI system for Red needs to be written like that, 
starting as early as possible and let it grow downwards instead of 
upwards with a real application in mind rather than some neat demos.
Well, as for me, it is easy as that - f*ck off native controls :-) 
What does that really mean today? I have really no intention seeing 
GTK or other crap. Either use your own GUI, or HTML, that's almost 
the only standard, which will prevail anyway. We should ask ourselves 
- how relevant is e.g. the Gnome GUI guide? And who cares in the 
big picture? So - for easy embedded stuff, just give me a small GUI 
system, for bigger picture, give me a  HTML5. I e.g. don't understand, 
why Kaj tries to port something like Enlightenment. I really miss 
the big picture. Who and why should ever use it? For personal purposes, 
or some specific stuff - why not, but that's not imo a strategic 
direction ...
I would never want my app to look like GTK, easy as that. Maybe because 
I have zero intention to do Linux native GUI app. Linux, in a big 
picture (desktop), is irrelevant. Alway was. Who claims otherwise, 
lives in separate reality :-) Mobile will prevail classical PC sales 
very soon (if not already). Own GUI, for small niche, might be good. 
But - it has to have attractive design. The situation with Saphirion 
was, that the substantially rewritten Carl's engine. Nice enhancements, 
resizing and other stuff. But I NEVER understood, why the look was 
so totally unattractive. You see, Henrik once again claiming the 
old stuff, which was the basic reason of a failure. Design is a separate 
animal, which was supposed to come later, which could be done by 
anyone, which "just" needs material system which never appeared, 
etc. And result for me (as a sigle person)? Carl's GUI desing attracts 
me by some 60% more, just because of look. Once again - look sells 
...for easy embedded stuff, just give me a small GUI system, for 
bigger picture, give me a  HTML5

So what do you propose for the GUI, that will allow it to look good? 
i.e., what is your constructive suggestion, rather than criticizing 
all the wrongs of the past.
Pekr: you don't get the right picture. When I mention "native widgets", 
I am mainly referring to the ones provided by each OS, which is what 
most users expect to find in an app for their OS, and what most developers 
wants, is to provide a consistent experience for users. So, actually, 
such approach will be lighter then /View, because the OS provides 
you with everything you need. In the case of Linux, GTK is the main 
standard and it is built-in many distros, so that is the one we will 
probably use for Linux target and you don't need to provide it with 
your app.
Gregg - Doc is focused, don't worry. He is used to my folklore. I 
know where he might be heading (in a bigger picture, not details)
Now, you have a better picture about the "full-stack" approach of 
Red language. :-)
Better specify it clearly each time you announce comparative performances, 
else people will generalize it and get a wrong picture of the real 
performance ratios. 

Fibonacci basically tests the efficiency of the function calls. A 
test with a bigger loop could be interesting. For example, you can 
take the %demo.red script and strip all screen outputs, add a LOOP 
around the main code and  you'll should see much bigger differences.
Kaj, what matters in such benchmark is not the usefulness of the 
resulting data, it is how the test stresses the language implementation. 
From that perspective, Fibonacci just tests the efficiency of nested 
calls, nothing else, no series manipulation, no memory allocation, 
very limited math, very limited control flow, ... The demo code will 
stress more parts of the implementation, hence giving you a more 
accurate picture (closer to what user will experience with their 
own scripts).

If you take the language Shootout tests, each test is meant to stress 
a specific part of each language, giving a good (and quite fair) 
comparison for each category.

I think we should implement them in order to get a good picture of 
Red performances and how they evolve. Anyone interested in implementing 
them? http://dada.perl.it/shootout/
Why is it such a problem to have some criticism, too?

 There is no problem with that, and believe me, you can't be more 
 critical on Red that I am myself. But I find it really unfair to 
 paint a bad picture of whole Red because some features that are planned 
 are not yet implemented. 

I can't go faster than the music, to get I/O done with required encoders/decoders, 
I need to setup the ports/devices infrastructure. To do that, I need 
objects support done. Also, as shown by my entries on Red Trello 
page, error! (and typeset!) support and getting a Unicode runtime 
lexer are even more prioritary to make Red "more usable for real-world 
apps". Moreover, when you manage a lot of tasks, some of them marked 
as "important" that keep been postponed because of other more urgent 
ones, will at some point become "urgent" themselves. That is what 
is happening with shared libs support, which is a blocker for getting 
Red on Android and iOS. I'll also probably make a Java bridge prototype 
this week before getting back on other Red features.
Doc, I keep repeating, I am not "painting a bad picture of whole 
Red", you make that up, blowing the issue out of proportion
OK.  The mental picture grows clearer.
Group: Ann-Reply ... Reply to Announce group [web-public]
And a picture sometimes says more than a thousand words can. (Especially 
when your Chinese is a bit rusty like mine) :)))
The problem is only with compiled softwares. If you don't bellieve 
in me, looks at Java. Nobody has problem selling java software. Java 
intepreter is opensource, but your code not.

If I make a picture, and you need glasses to see it, I don't have 
to give the same license of the glasses to the picture.
James, yes buttons are made with DRAW in REBOL. Also the shutter 
button, which I first took a picture of from my Nikon FM3A camera, 
and then modelled in DRAW from scratch by looking at the grayscale 
in the picture.
Group: Rebol School ... REBOL School [web-public]
Hi, I need again your help:
I have an invalid image in my database.
I update images inside my window and I use this code:

	if not error? [to-image load news/immagine] [
		immagine/image: to-image load news/immagine

I have tried this code too:

	if not error? [picture: to-image load news/immagine] [
		immagine/image: to-image load news/immagine
However I get the following error:

Script Error: Invalid argument: make image! [170x78 #{
** Where: to-image
** Near: to image! :value

The error is generated from the block following the IF

Why I am not able to catch the wrong image ?
@kaj and balance-line through the files. A possibility, has some 
tricky attentionpoints in it, and the preferred way when efficiency 
is in the picture or more than once usage. Db seems to be pretty 
straight forward and its a nice exercise in using that.
Thanks Endo, I mailed the links to my work.

@James To me xml just looks like a whole lot of <> characters and 
a lot of description extra. Having to deal with that too seems a 
lot of work more, need a tool for  working quick with xml.
Thank you for all of your suggestions!
When I name the labels lr1 thru lr8 and use the trick I found on 
www.pat665.free.fr/gtk/rebol-view.html which is w: to-word rejoin 
["lr" n] (for n is 1, 2, 3 or    8 you get the picture.) and f: get 

f/font/color: white and directly show the label: show f I can set 
them seperately. But it is a bit ugly to do it like this if I may 
say so.
Group: #Red Docs ... How should Red be documented [web-public]
Gregg - totally agree on avoiding doc fragmentation. This is a serious 
consideration for newcomers who need a guiding hand to see the overall 
picture. It's pretty important to convey a sense of being authoritative 
on documentation. Another related issue is that of keeping documentation 
current/clean. Old, deprecated, outdated material should be deleted 
or at least be made a lot less visible in the community.
Group: !REBOL3 ... General discussion about REBOL 3 [web-public]
A picture is worth a thousand words:


world-name: r3wp

Group: Ann-Reply ... Reply to Announce group [web-public]
[unknown: 10]:
Colin i think that Rebol RT does not want to market Rebol as a software 
development tool but rather in a broughter picture as a environment.. 
Thats something a lot of Internet users/developers dont even know 
[unknown: 10]:
I.e. the problem with introducing REBOL into a BIG software development 
compagny is that the developers are always willing to try a change! 
but the total package of moving from 1 development enviroment to 
the other is far to complicated and expensive to do it.. So they 
stick with what  "others" use  and do, without thinking through the 
whole picture.. Its a pitty but a fact though.. Still if a development 
compagny would start directly (or on a new project) with i.e. REBOL 
the change that it will have success if far greater. Well....getting 
to that stage is difficult because REBOL is unknown... Its like "air" 
to the people, so you have to put time into it.. (There is no time 
inside big compagnies..there is only time in technology enhanced 
compagny's that do research. So you miss a market...) Anyway a nice 
topic which keeps me sometimes thinking about "Who promoted the Wheel.. 
;-)" It was an evolution... And indeed Internet promotion is part 
of this evolution so please continue ;-)
digicamsoft:  Mmm.. is that a picture of Michael Jackson on the front 
Group: !AltME ... Discussion about AltME [web-public]
[unknown: 9]:
The second.  Not just are we not dropping AltME, we are growing it. 
 But there is a bigger picture.
Group: RAMBO ... The REBOL bug and enhancement database [web-public]
#3697: can't crash REBOL anymore (Win2k) - tried some heavy brush 
pasting on picture: works fine.
Group: Script Library ... REBOL.org: Script library and Mailing list archive [web-public]
there is ALWAYS a 3...;-)     Picture or graphic of the most popular 
script with a quote.
Now, a quick challenge.  I'd like several banner texts that we can 
rotate to help keep the thing fresh, and to help unveil other aspects 

Can we all chip in, please?
Either --- a 75 word (or shorter) snapshot of what REBOL is

or --- some bullet points that we can join to others to help paint 
a picture.

Gabriele, That is great !

I hadn't noticed the extra info poping up. Just that simple extra 
info is very helpful when inspecting/reading code (well for me anyway). 
Thank you.

The fact I hadn't noticed it might be a counter argument to Sunanda's 
fear of being annoyed by it. You really have to leave your pointer 
on it.

Any new language (natural or artificial) feels like "Scriptio continua" 
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriptio_continua) 

at first and all these visual cues are very helpfull in building 
the program's tree in your mind.

Imagine yourself a beginner at german reading a text that would have 
been colorized to accentuate its different elements. Hovering over 
a colored word would give you a translation or even maybe just a 
picture to prevent you from thinking in your first language.
sunanda:  I have a feature proposal for you  :-)

it would be nice to be able to supply a single picture to link with 
the scripts. this image (jpg, png, gif) would have hefty size limitation 
and I think only one image per script should be enough, but having 
this alongside the various listings of the application and within 
searches, new scripts, etc would be really cool.

sometimes, if you see a thumbnail (ui grab, console example, logo, 
output gfx, whatever), it will help raise people's curiosity.  this 
could probably benefit quite a few scripts, which are possibly overlooked.

having a simple search filter of scripts with pics, could also help 
people to quickly find usefull things at a glance.

what do you think?  it could start out really simple, and slowly 
thumbnails could creep into various listings of scripts.
maybe, we could eventually have more than one picture, like pics 
which are specifically tagged as gui screenshots, for example.
AND BE SHORT NAME IT "UPLOAD A SCRIPT" !!! Focus on those 2 points 
and i will use rebol.org waaaaaaaaaaay much more. If you want to 
go crazy fancy and make it super cool you can add a picture + text 
describtion  for the GUI based script... Those are the details that 
separate a boring website noone use and a super website use widely 
Group: View ... discuss view related issues [web-public]
Nice picture there, Terry! The  "look-out" within the 'O' reminds 
me of some pictures, I made with my Amiga500 many years ago. :-) 
But we didn't have such nice colour fading back then. Very nice!
[unknown: 10]:
If have a problem with Caching in rebol..seems everytime i need to 
restart view/console to make sure the PICTURE is reloaded to the 
currect on... im using 'IMAGE %file.png to load it... and a recycle 
does not fix the problem
Group: I'm new ... Ask any question, and a helpful person will try to answer. [web-public]
'alt' and other atributes can be before img -> <img alt="picture" 
and second - one can write <img alt="picture" src=one.jpg /> - which 
is also good - and besides that IMO all is OK.
page: read http://www.rebol.com
; special test cases from Alek_K
;page: {<img src="one two.jpg">} ; OK
;page: {<img alt="picture" src=one.jpg />} ; OK
images: copy []

use [whsp ws non-end-tag strd wh- non-str-delim p1 p2 delim non-delim][

	whsp: charset " ^-^/" ; whitespace
	ws: [any whsp] ; a rule for any number of whitespace characters
	non-end-tag: complement charset ">" ; all characters except ">"
	strd: charset {"'} ; string delimiters, double and single quote

 wh-: charset "^-^/" ; whitespace minus the space character (space 
 is allowed inside a quoted string)
	non-str-delim: complement union whsp charset ">"	

	parse/all page [
		any [
			thru "<img" whsp [
				any [
					ws "src" ws "=" ws 

     ;p1: [strd (delim: form p1/1) | (delim: ">")] (non-delim: complement 
     union whsp charset delim)

     p1: [strd (non-delim: complement union wh- charset form p1/1) | (non-delim: 

     p1: any non-delim p2: (append images copy/part p1 p2) ; keep the 
					| non-end-tag 
			] | skip


new-line/all images on ; add hidden newlines to the images block 
so it molds nicely
print mold images
Group: Make-doc ... moving forward [web-public]
a picture of  MDP-GUI 1.3 including the render API of Ashley/Gabriele 
Group: Parse ... Discussion of PARSE dialect [web-public]
    file: images/a picture.gif 
    size: 200x300
    caption: some caption below the picture 
    desc: some description for the picture

I'm trying to extend Makedoc2 for a project to generate a xml dialect 
and I need much more information to certain elements - e.g. images 
- so I'm trying to make it as easy as possible for the user. The 
above is what I actually wanted to parse - but the order of the information 
is supposed to be free and I can't and don't want to use rebol datatypes 
which might be the first thought to make the parsing easier, because 
normal people don't want to learn too many rules for all these things. 
So the b and c in the example corresponded more to the caption and 
desc in the above example.
I'm gonna try again:

>> s: {=image
{    file: images/a picture.gif
{    size: 200x300
{    caption: some caption below the picture
{    desc: some description for the picture}
== {=image
file: images/a picture.gif
size: 200x300
caption: some caption below the picture
desc: some description for the pictu...
>> parse head append s {^/} [
[    some [
[        thru {file: } copy file to {^/} |
[        thru {size: } copy size to {^/} |
[        thru {caption: } copy cap to {^/} |
[        thru {desc: } copy desc to {^/}
[        ]
[    ]
Group: MySQL ... [web-public]
I would be easier to understand if you replace the word "mysql", 
by either "client" or "server". ;-) But, anyway, I think I got the 
Group: Syllable ... The free desktop and server operating system family [web-public]
We also added a rewritten picture viewer, a new PDF reader and a 
number of new dock applets. An updated version of our web browser 
is available separately.
The fact alone that you have a picture probably means that the driver 
is active, because many laptops with integrated Intel video don't 
have VESA2 support in the BIOS, so there's nothing to fall back on 
for Syllable
I know how you feel, though. I also have the tendency to feel my 
way through the installation and did it several times in the beginning 
to form a mental picture of it
Group: Web ... Everything web development related [web-public]
With regards to keyboards that don't have a numeric pad (or indeed 
function keys), I'm using a "Happy Hacking Lite 2"; a bit pricey 
though but the preferred keyboard of many Linux enthusiasts. Check 
out http://shop.store.yahoo.com/pfuca-store/haphackeylit1.htmlfor 
a picture.
Group: Announce ... Announcements only - use Ann-reply to chat [web-public]
[unknown: 9]:
The Gripe:

Go here www.Rebol.org, then go here: http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/, 
then here: http://java.sun.com/, hell even go here, http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/, 
now go back to www.Rebol.com

Even if you don't know what the language is or does, do you want 
to go to Rebol.org?  The main page looks like the last page in the 
basement of a website.  Almost like an "error page"

O There is no single location for all Rebol information.

O Rebol.net, Rebol.com, and Rebol.org are spread out and run by RT. 
O There is no pizzas!
O I don't "feel" community when I visit these sites.

I know I'm not talking to my audience when I say; "think of this 
like a night club" but this is what this is all about.  People want 
to "be where the fun is happening."  Even programmers.

My Suggestion:

O We need a site controlled by the developers.

O We need a forum where people can bitch and meet each other, and 
feel welcome.

O The site needs to have a consistent dynamic attractive template.

O The site needs to be a clearing house for all other sites.  Teach 
and directing people to all the resources.

O The site needs to paint a picture as opposed to describe everything 
with a thousand words.

What is entailed:

O Start a new site, I would propose "RebolCentral.com"  I'm willing 
to pay for it, but I don't want to be in charge of it, I suggest 
we make it a committee.

O The main page should cover every topic and reason anyone would 
come to the site.  This means we support every country and other 
site.  The idea here is a clearing house of centralized information. 

O News: The site needs to gather news worthy information and post 
that at the top.  The site is not alive unless people have a way 
to post their information.  This means that there needs to be at 
least one editor, if not several that share the task.  Every time 
a product is updated, the new features are mentioned.  When Carl 
updates his blog, it gets a single sentence directing people there, 
unless it is news of a release of something.  Etc.

O Product Reviews:   This is key.  Products need to be rated, reviewed, 
categorized, voted on.

O Video Archive: All the videos of all the talks ever given   

O Tutorials:  there are a lot of tutorials out there, but which are 
best?  We need to review the tutorials, rate them by Beginner, Intermediate, 

O Forum: Start with major topics, and then break it down.  The forum 
needs to direct people to other countries, or support the other countries 
right in the forum.  Great simple forum: http://discussion.treocentral.com/index.php?styleid=1

O Respect the real estate.  The #1 mistake people make is treating 
their websites like just pages.  This is just like real estate, location 
location location.  We need to place the content based on where people 
are going.  So you build the basic site, watch it for a couple of 
weeks, then shift things around based on where people are actually 

O More art, more photos, more community.   It needs to feel inviting: 

Stone soup:

I will pay for, host, and supply a fast linux system (w/archive). 

I will help design the templates, and provide (and buy if needed) 
great art for the site.

I will not run the site, nor control the content, but I expect there 
to be in place all the items outlined above, set up in a manner that 
it a) runs itself, b) puts the power in the hands of the developers.
liquidator, teaser  here is a quick snapshot of the culmination of 
years of work, finally coming together.

using the same (evolving and improving) core engine as the regraph 
tech demo, I am now attacking the IDE for dataflow application development. 
 FINALLY.  Also note that this is built over liquid which is a full 
featured, lazy computing, dynamically reconfigurable dataflow engine. 
 also note that all internals of the nodes (processing and gui views) 
are built using liquid itself, so it will be possible to apply your 
own connections within the internals of the application itself ! 

Expect first working demos within a few weeks.

First picture out of the lab:  this is basically a generic "Add" 
node being instanced 4 times, note that each plug can stick out at 
any angle and that the node type label is already neatly aligned 
in the center of the node's core at the center.

 all lines and plugs stay connected whatever you drag around (plug 
or node)
Electronic Arts IFF ILBM loader:

Can handle 2, 4, 8, 16 and 32 color images, HAM6 images (4096 colors) 
and HALFBRITE (64 colors). HALFBRITE hasn't been tested yet, as I 
couldn't find such an image easily. Handle both compressed and non-compressed 
images. This is an example, where rebcode would help a lot, as a 
320x200 image can take several seconds to uncompress.

iff-image: load-iff %some_picture.iff
img: iff-image/as-image

img now is a REBOL image!, than can be viewed like:
view layout [image img]
Group: SDK ... [web-public]
and you are sure the image itself doesn't have the artefact?  (llooking 
into picture viewer, for eample)
Group: !RebGUI ... A lightweight alternative to VID [web-public]
in the LNS big picture it's says that LNS is the base systeme for 
VIEW 2.0 etc so why not associate carl to the discution and see what 
he plan for View 2.0
Now that makes for a really nice slogan, Robert: "only four letters 
more but hundreds of questions less". It's as true as that of the 
well-known picture, which says more than thousand words. Comes down 
to: One word says more than thousand letters ;-)
this picture shows the blu box problem ;)
That's why i put "binaries" in quotes before when referring to the 
preconverted draw blocks you mentioned before. Since SVG is text, 
even human-readable (with difficulty at times) the SVG files can 
be considered the source and the draw converter can be considered 
the compiler. Still, I agree that it would be best to make your own 
if you can, since the GPL is really poorly suited as a picture content 
license - they should have tried one of the Creative Commons licenses 
Group: !Uniserve ... Creating Uniserve processes [web-public]
the addres stuff you see at the top of an email has about as much 
to do with delivery as the picture on a postcard
Group: DevCon2005 ... DevCon 2005 [web-public]
I only get one picture of you and then it freezes and dies. With 
QT you will get on buffering and play a little then it will back 
to buffering...
VLC: I have the sound, but no more picture :(
I get no picture with VLC
No picture with quicktime nor VLC !!!
lower framerate, but the picture looks a bit clearer sometimes. there 
is less stability in the image though
Funny things is that QT give no sound, but VLC does (without picture).
It remember me last year!
design of DevCon website is excellent. If RT would have such fresh 
look, it will make their public picture better. Good work,  Chris 
[unknown: 9]:
Brock, as a company that is working very hard to make everything 
compatible between all the browser I can tell you that what it comes 
down to is that there are rules, but each browser company (or group) 
interprets the rules slightly differently.

The simplest example of goes wrong the most are the "assumptions." 
 EI for example will except <center> to mean center the page, and 
center pretty much everything until you turn </center> off.  

But Firefox follows the letter of the rules, and expects each object, 
like a table, to have its own <center> tags.

This is a simple visual example, it gets worse when JavaScript enters 
the picture.  Safari for example DEMANDS everything ending in a ";" 
or it simply ignores stuff.

They are almost always easy fixes, but time consuming.

Maarten, shame that Breeze will not work.  I looked at Breeze and 
voted not to use it to do a Rebol lesson.  Looked great on their 
page, but I read a lot of similar comments elsewhere on the web that 
it simply failed for too many people.  I was hoping that someone 
smart in this group would know what we could use both to solve our 
DevCon needs and the Rebol Newbie Lesson needs.

We need a way to broad cast at least one video signal, and allow 
moderated chat in the same environment for people all over the world. 
 This should be easier.  I have an Idea that might work, but will 
require some research.  I might just do this in Qtask.  Then anyone 
can log in from anywhere, talk in a group, have sub topics.  All 
we have to add is video streaming (which is actually pretty easy 
for us).  The trick is setup up the incoming real time stream, which 
I was not planning to do for a while.
usually it does work up to 1600x1200 or so ... the problem lays otherwise 
- the picture is shrinked (if that is the correct term). It  is like 
with LCD - only one resolution is native ...
Group: Hardware ... Computer Hardware Issues [web-public]
Everything high def is expensive. Can you tell much difference in 
the picture quality?
Group: Sound ... discussion about sound and audio implementation in REBOL [web-public]
Mmm.. nice picture...
Henrik why not. But the GUI is not 100% finished so I hope it can 
be later replaced with better picture.
Group: Rebol School ... Rebol School [web-public]
[unknown: 9]:
For example:

Find | Select | Pick | First | Second | Third | Forth | Fifth | and 
Sixth are all really the same command:

If you picture a master command with lots of settings (refinements) 
and even some conditional code (if refinement set, do x).
The "Rebol Essentials" is a good start. But I think I can break the 
approach down to still simpler steps. The difficulty I face is not 
having the broad, overall picture for Rebol. I am very conscious 
this limits my ability to make the best choices for the moment.
Group: Rebol/Flash dialect ... content related to Rebol/Flash dialect [web-public]
Nick, it's exactly what's supposed to be there :) It's a personal 
server and has no main page. There's only a picture that cahnges 
from time to time.
Group: Windows/COM Support ... [web-public]
All in one zip: (MS word only untill now incude some bug fixes)
• Add a Formatted Table to a Word Document.
• Add a Picture to a Microsoft Word Document.
• Add Formatted Text to a Word Document.
• Append Text to a Word Document.
• Apply a Style to a Table in a Word Document.
• Create a New Word Document.
• Create and Save a Word Document.
• Open and Print a Word Document.
• Save a Microsoft Word Document as an HTML File.
Download from:
Group: Tech News ... Interesting technology [web-public]
http://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/lfcamera/<--- very interesting 
camera: take a picture, then choose the focus you want in the image.
[unknown: 10]:
extra links + picture and in English too -> http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4&section=0&article=88962&d=18&m=11&y=2006
shadwolf, is "Syntoma" the brand of the LCD monitor ?

Having to wait 5 - 10 minutes before seeing a picture would be a 
waste of time.
Are you sure you cannot get your supplier to replace it ?

If you can fix it, that is good, but you have not earned any money. 
You will have lost both money and time.
Case in point: it may look like a display, but if it doesn't display 
a picture, it really isn't
mine turn on .. just no picture
no picture ????  hum really  if you point a strong light source to 
it does it show you the screen content ?
(I think I have a picture of Peter and myself in togas...which should 
not be held against him....  Everything is held against me...so I 
won't even defend myself).
[unknown: 5]:
For example say the image is just a picture of a large ball or circle. 
 The person clicks the center of the circle and holds down to expand 
to the perimeter of the circle in the image and releases and this 
gets interpretes as radius back to the server.
Group: Plugin-2 ... Browser Plugins [web-public]
[unknown: 9]:
How does double-clicking on a r file relate to the plugin?

Yeah, I can see why this subtlety is not clear…

Let's picture 60-90 million people coming across a .r file on the 
What happens right now?
can java-script open the socket? because rebol can by simply open 
tcp://1234 .... will be catched by firewall, if present - but would 
that be regarded a security problem? How far do we go with limiting 
rebol? It would be good to slowly get to rebol's security bigger 
picture, to prevent the final solution being inconsistent ....
[unknown: 5]:
JoshM as long as the big picture includes the ability to authenticate 
by MS Proxy then I'm good.  This can allow me to make a plugin that 
can reach our printers via the network using their web interfaces.
It cannot be appreciated without the appropriate data. If you will 
each send me a picture of yourself (jpeg file), then I will see what 
I can do. Can the files be sent via AltME file sharing? I've never 
used it and would like to put it to a test.
Group: !Liquid ... any questions about liquid dataflow core. [web-public]
is the gui an actual picture of the school's layout.
Group: !Cheyenne ... Discussions about the Cheyenne Web Server [web-public]
I don't know how rsp fits into the picture, but once I have something 
of a remark loadable lib working, I'll try to get others to better 
define how to merge rsp and remark (mainly what rsp can add to remark... 
things like session control maybe).  maybe rsp doesn't even become 
relevant... more details to come as I work out all the parts of this 
endeavor.  btw, this effort is brought up by need... not just hobby 
Group: DevCon2007 ... DevCon 2007 [web-public]
focus = sharp picture, focus = concentrate
Content of Carl's presentation was updated:

Introducing REBOL 3.0
 by Carl Sassenrath

(The content will be spread in probably more than one session)

Opening and a historical note.

What makes a system popular? Is it the language, the platform, or 
the applications? The bigger picture: the virtual OS. Moving beyond 
conventional OS models. Being a latform. The core of modern applications 
- it's not what you think.

The motivation for R3. The guiding theme. Portablity and extensibility 
- the R3 open foundation. Overview of R3 features.

Environments - embedding REBOL. Building your own version of REBOL 
- within a standard. Plugins - extending REBOL. The IO device model 
- how to create a device.

New datatypes. The Module architecture. Tasks, threads, and more. 
The new graphics system. All new port design. New debugging methods. 
New object tricks. DB access nd indexed files. IPv6 discussion. Compatibility 
- taming the lion. What's next? When and where can you get a copy? 
The goal of DevBase and DocBase.
ahhh, better picture ;-)
What I miss so far is - more strategic view. We know little of R3, 
well, we know some bits, but still no bigger picture - integration 
strategies, what happens to View, what is the idea behind View, IOS, 
altME integration?
Group: Games ... talk about using REBOL for games [web-public]
Grrr...  :)  I have no desire for millions, but ... I wrote and published 
a fantasy card game back in the early 80s; an entire decade before 
Magic the Gathering.  They made enough money to buy TSR.   Rassafrassa. 
 :)  Not to say my Monster Romp (tm) game competes with Magic;  I 
paid an artist a whole $3 for each picture, but had I flogged it 
I could be independently wealthy now instead of umm, not.  I have 
about 800 decks of the original 1000 run.  Sold 60 decks the one 
day I set up a booth to sell it, then gave away the rest.  From those 
days forward I promised myself to never pursue an idea.  Best to 
let them die on the operating table and skip the what if crap.  That 
is until I bump into a greedy partner.  Success requires greed imho, 
or at least a state of mind somewhere above "communist".  :)

Paul;  I'm not sure, but I posted this to the calendat back in July. 
Group: !CureCode ... web-based bugtracking tool [web-public]
that picture reminds me Ladybird a Database designer wirted in rebol 
(project by reprotizer and Coccinelle)
Hey Doc, is this picture of CureCode schema still current ?
I didn't had the time yet to update the picture.
Group: DevCon2008 (post-chatter) ... DevCon2008 [web-public]
[unknown: 5]:
Steeve it still shows your picture after you leave.
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