AltME groups: search

The only statistic I have to gauge things by is hits on my Web site. 
The Rebol pages are getting more unique visitors than my Ruby pages 
right now.

Pekr,

I think you might find the following interesting

Object Role Modeling (ORM)
http://www.orm.net/index.html
http://www.objectrolemodeling.com/

Responsibility-Driven Design
http://www.wirfs-brock.com/pages/home.html

Responsibility-based Modeling

http://alistair.cockburn.us/crystal/articles/rbm/responsibilitybasedmodeling.html

but we have yet Vincent Ecuyer that  make an MD2 convertion script 
that retrieves the pages from de dokuwiki on line and write on the 
local hard drive the file containing the infos converted to MD2 format

you could also make the window smaller for this group. Page scrolling 
scrolls about two pages if the size of the list is about 2-300 pixels.

Ok, I have always set my mouse to the fastes movement possible on 
the system. I don't use a scroll-wheel, I just click the arrows to 
either go line-by-line or posting-by-posting (which I would prefer). 
But, as Chris stated, clicking ones, pages more than one page up/down, 
so I'm missing postings. Workaround: Dragging the slider, which is 
a mess with this mouse speed and the number of messages (IIRC 1500) 
I display.

that's because of different code-pages on Mac/Win

execve("../rebol2558042", ["../rebol2558042"], [/* 18 vars */]) = 
0
uname({sys="Linux", node="dino.local", ...}) = 0
brk(0)                                  = 0x809b000

old_mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, 
-1, 0) = 0x40017000

access("/etc/ld.so.nohwcap", F_OK)      = -1 ENOENT (No such file 
or directory)

open("/etc/ld.so.preload", O_RDONLY)    = -1 ENOENT (No such file 
or directory)
open("/etc/ld.so.cache", O_RDONLY)      = 7
fstat64(7, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=51977, ...}) = 0
old_mmap(NULL, 51977, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, 7, 0) = 0x40018000
close(7)                                = 0

access("/etc/ld.so.nohwcap", F_OK)      = -1 ENOENT (No such file 
or directory)
open("/lib/tls/libm.so.6", O_RDONLY)    = 7

read(7, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0\2405\0"..., 
512) = 512
fstat64(7, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=141236, ...}) = 0

old_mmap(NULL, 139712, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 7, 0) = 
0x40025000

old_mmap(0x40047000, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 
7, 0x22000) = 0x40047000
close(7)                                = 0

access("/etc/ld.so.nohwcap", F_OK)      = -1 ENOENT (No such file 
or directory)
open("/lib/tls/libc.so.6", O_RDONLY)    = 7

read(7, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0\200X\1"..., 
512) = 512
fstat64(7, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=1270908, ...}) = 0

old_mmap(NULL, 1281292, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 7, 0) = 
0x40048000

old_mmap(0x40176000, 36864, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 
7, 0x12d000) = 0x40176000

old_mmap(0x4017f000, 7436, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_ANONYMOUS, 
-1, 0) = 0x4017f000
close(7)                                = 0

old_mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, 
-1, 0) = 0x40181000

set_thread_area({entry_number:-1 -> 6, base_addr:0x401812a0, limit:1048575, 
seg_32bit:1, contents:0, read_exec_only:0, limit_in_pages:1, seg_not_present:0, 
useable:1}) = 0
munmap(0x40018000, 51977)               = 0

rt_sigaction(SIGCONT, {0x804b6c4, [CONT], SA_RESTART}, {SIG_DFL}, 
8) = 0

rt_sigaction(SIGTSTP, {0x804b67c, [TSTP], SA_RESTART}, {SIG_DFL}, 
8) = 0

rt_sigaction(SIGINT, {0x804b700, [INT], SA_RESTART}, {SIG_DFL}, 8) 
= 0

rt_sigaction(SIGTERM, {0x804b700, [TERM], SA_RESTART}, {SIG_DFL}, 
8) = 0

rt_sigaction(SIGHUP, {0x804b700, [HUP], SA_RESTART}, {SIG_DFL}, 8) 
= 0

rt_sigaction(SIGCHLD, {0x804b718, [CHLD], SA_RESTART}, {SIG_DFL}, 
8) = 0
socketpair(PF_UNIX, SOCK_DGRAM, 0, [7, 8]) = 0

clone(child_stack=0, flags=CLONE_CHILD_CLEARTID|CLONE_CHILD_SETTID|SIGCHLD, 
child_tidptr=0x401812e8) = 21686
close(8)                                = 0
brk(0)                                  = 0x809b000
brk(0x80be000)                          = 0x80be000
brk(0)                                  = 0x80be000
brk(0)                                  = 0x80be000
brk(0x80eb000)                          = 0x80eb000
brk(0)                                  = 0x80eb000
brk(0x810c000)                          = 0x810c000
ioctl(0, TCGETS, {B38400 opost isig icanon echo ...}) = 0
ioctl(0, TCSETSW, {B38400 opost isig -icanon -echo ...}) = 0

open("/etc/termcap", O_RDONLY)          = -1 ENOENT (No such file 
or directory)
write(1, "R", 1)                        = 1

I suspect that this nesting behavior was intended to better enable 
using REBOL to generate code in languages with C-like block structure. 
I know it is useful for putting Javascript in generated web pages. 
There may even be such generation of C code as part of the REBOL 
build process. For that matter, it can be useful when specifying 
REBOL source code in strings when that code also contains strings.

24 pages of problems ??

The word browser is nice, but I spend most of my time in the console. 
 How about a man command that looks up the manual pages on the net, 
and dumps them to the console?

<<How about a man command that looks up the manual pages on the net, 
and dumps them to the console?>>

It wouldn't be that hard to adapt the existing code for other purposes 
too.

Like, it'd be good  if someone extended it to emit MakeDoc codes. 
Those files could then go straight up on the web -- instant searchable 
ocumentation.

I get the impression that Carl would be happy for people to volunteer 
to extend the project.

and all of my pages are already in textile format, and I think a 
few of my friends would be more interested in Rebol if I had a textile 
parser for them

HL7 - yeah, hundreds of pages of specs.

I don't know .. I am just looking at sample data and trying to reverse 
engineer the format as I don't have time to read 100s of pages of 
specs.

I have put my index.rhtml at the same directory of the others html 
pages i.e. /var/www

I can run Magic! under Apache 1.5 on my machine; I don't have Apache 
2 installed.


I have magic.cgi installed in the cgi-bin directory (equivalent of 
your cgi-script) and access the .rhtml pages from another directory. 
This is my setup:

In the httpd.conf file:

AddHandler magic .rhtml          
    Action magic /cgi-bin/magic.cgi

in the URL/cgi-bin folder 
 magci.cgi

in the URL/magic folder
 test.rhtml

page accessed via http://URL/Magic/test.rhtml

Hope this helps

Ashley documents the bug on his Rebgui pages.

Like I say about web pages which have chinese characters in them... 
Google doesn't prohibit them or not index them.  It knows not to 
show them to you unless you ask, if you don't speak Chinese.  Or 
they translate it.  With the kind of thinking you're promoting, you'd 
just say "they should write in English, that makes the world more 
compatible."

Thanks Graham.  Your response came in while I was composing this.... 
OK I have a simple View interface displaying a uniserve response 
so I follow that.  With a view user interface I can see you could 
get the data needed for multiple tab pages asynchronously and have 
some saving there.   For a script serving out html pages, it could 
be broken up so that asynch go after independent parts but they would 
have to be all emitted to the browser at once.   Is anyone doing 
that with Uniserv or other?

Rebol Server Pages

If this list doesn't fulfill all your needs, here's the additionnal 
features planned for the 1.0 release :

    * RSP: REBOL Server Pages support.
    * General CGI support (run any CGI script).

    * Chunk-encoding transferts support (streamed data transferts).
    * Standard compression methods support: gzip, deflate, bzip2.

    * Byte-ranges request support (ability to request files in parts 
    and resume broken downloads).

    * mod-rewrite module for powerful request URL transformations (without 
    the regexp complexity!).

    * mod-map-url module for direct URL to REBOL functions or objects 
    mapping.
    * SSL support.
    * Advanced GUI client for local and remote administration.

Mike, I started using Apache and rebol as cgi, this is not suited 
for performances as on every call to the cgi, a new instance of rebol 
is  initialized, run and closed.

I thought about using fastcgi, but never came to a working solution.
Now I use uniserve as main webserver, here some advantages:

-it is fast! On my local machine I get +- 600 req/sec for static 
pages and a max of 160req/sec for dynamic rsp pages

-it is written in rebol, I could easly(less than 10 lines code) add 
a rewrite engine

-child process are persistent, this mean you can keep state of your 
web applications, implement caching, keep a pool of connection to 
databases open (in apache + rebol/cgi you'd have to open and close 
the connection for every request)
-it is written by Dock whom I may be the biggest fan ;-)

btw I'm running an unreleased version (have bought commercial support) 
 that support http 1.1, stuff like If-Modified etc..

If you have more specific questions, I'll be glad to try and answer.

rebol server pages ? will we have samples of it ?

well, command can read https pages...?

By the way, old HTTPd service (in 0.9.9 zip) runs well for HTML pages.
But gives following error when I request show.cgi file:

Ashley, can you explain in a little more detail how your setup works 
for you?

 Sure. I run a home office with two studies. Each has a Mac mini (plus 
 Cinema display) for day-to-day work. My study also has a TabletPC 
 connected to a 1280x1024 VGA LCD display. I use this for REBOL development 
 and demos away from home.


The iBook is located in the other study and is used by my better 
half when running Windows software related to our finance company 
(CRM/Sales software distributed via the professional body we belong 
to, no Mac or Linux option available). We also use the iBook when 
showing non-IT people stuff (e.g. a spreadsheet showing how much 
their portfolio could be worth if they geared it) and when attending 
training sessions.


The ADSL modem has an ethernet connection to Airport express, which 
in turn has the MFC plugged into its USB slot. The Mac's pick up 
the printer automatically, the TabletPC runs Bonjour and does the 
same. Everything, including the TabletPC, detected the Network without 
issue. It really has been as simple as, 1) Unpack, 2) Plug-in, 3) 
Use. I've also noticed that WinXP running on the iBook is a lot faster/smoother 
than on the TabletPC as it installs 'clean' (i.e. piggy-backs off 
the Mac's Network and Hardware support).


Large screens are a must if you write and or read a lot of documents. 
A 1920x1200 screen lets you do a slideshow on a PDF document and 
read the pages side-by-side. On wide screens I always have the task-bar/dock 
on the right to maximize the vertical display area.

Ashley yes  !!! You noticed right I found them deep hided in the 
SVG format documentation on W3C dedicated pages to SVG format ....

on a project like an svg graph system save.png take really all it's 
sens imagine a way to make easyly graphs with your rebol GCI to display 
graph stats in your web pages for example

better to break some scripts than to piss off everyone who has to 
read really wide pages

and preferably with water proof pages so I can read it in the bath 
:)

Ahhh so much to learn and not enough time!!!  Thanks for your patience
Ok, on to another issue.


I have a text file as a printable report that contains several pages 
within it.  Each line can be as large as 132 columns wide (or less).

- The literal  "    Page " will begin in column 115 and that indicates 
the start of a printed page.


I want to write a script that will read this text file one-page-at-a-time, 
so I can do some processing on the page.


How do I write a script to load in a single "page"?  I am guessing 
that I need to open a PORT and have rebol read all the lines until 
I get "....Page." in bype position 115.

Any suggestions?

My Page, Name, & Member is always in the same order on separate pages 
within a file.  like so:
Line 1     Page 1
Line 2     Name
Line 3     Member
Line n...  Member
Line 50  Member
Line 51  Page   2
Line 52  Name
Line 53  Member
Line 54  Member
...

Yes Patrick you have it right. The rules I gave would fail 
since you have multiple names/members

I would try to get away from the line by line mentality 
and try to break it into your conceptual record groupings
file, pages, sections, and details...

One trick I use is to replace a string delimiter for a record 
with a single char so parse returns a block of that record type. 

this is good because then when you work on each item in the block 
in turn
you know any fields you find do belong to this record and that 

you have not accidently skipped to a similar field in a later record.

something like this 


pages: read %file
replace/all/case pages "PAGE" "^L"
pages: parse/all pages "^L"

foreach page pages[
	p: first page
	page: find page newline
	replace/all/case page "NAME" "^L"
	sections: parse page "^L"
	foreach sec section [
		s: first section
		sec: find sec newline
		parse sec [
			any [thru "Member" copy detail to newline 
				newline (print [p tab s tab detail])
			]
		]
	]
]

as I said... it works from other connections.... only problem is 
this new one in this office.... it has to be something with router.... 
Im looking configuration pages for two days now... :(

I think Ajax is not good for clasic pages, as it make the page invisible 
for Google, it's nice that XmlHTTPRequest is working in most of the 
browsers but it's nothing impressive, it just gets the data from 
server without ned to reload all the page.

Oldes (David?), you make a good point, but think of it the other 
way around.

As the web moves to the X-Web (even this silly Web 2.0), Google's 
life as a search engine will end.


I'm pro google, and I think they offer a GREAT service. But take 
most companies off the web and Google is a lot less interesting, 
and it becomes a glorified Yellow Pages.


Of course it will still be filled with open information, but I suspect 
it will lose its shine.

The google issue is a good one, search engines are the reasons that 
previous things like frames and iframes failed. As Neilson often 
states, since the advent of powerfull search engines like google, 
there is no longer a real concept of websites..rather from a web 
user point of view, it is just a search box and a list result web 
 pages with what they want to find

the netvibes site is nice, but the problem is still the same, - you 
have to do it in old way as well, if you want to make pages for more 
people then net-freaks

http://10000th.com/

a flash site to showcase Tag Heur.

try out how you can flip the pages and even tear it out.

maybe nice for the first look, but I don't like it

The page or component you request is no longer available. This is 
normally caused by timeout, or opening too many Web pages. 
Continue cruising ZK Demo .  
Failed to invoke zkBox.init
zkBox is not defined

its the first use of xml I find interesting.  I dare say its at least 
as simple as rebol within its context of creating web pages.

standard being "thousands of pages", without the info of how to correctly 
"interpret" that document description ... sounds scarry, unless the 
blog author is not exagerrating ..

I tried WPF demos on the mac. it runs OK, but the pages are quite 
large.

WRT encryption. I found one implementation (you need to buy a license) 
that supports transparent encryption. IIRC I posted the link some 
time ago. I will have a look at the C code and there at the storage 
stuff to see how hard it is to add an AES encryption of storage pages. 
IMO it can't be that hard.

ha, cool ... thanks :-) So in overall - what about some of your other 
enhancements? Any changes to parse? binding? object cloning? map? 
You know - your rebol pages contain lots of stuff - http://www.fm.vslib.cz/~ladislav/rebol/

cause the init block can be 2 pages further down the editor?  ;-)

A postscript block can have several pages, and every page can have 
several paths.

The prolog is quite important to allow document managers to manage 
the postscript file properly.

It was interesting to note that postscript file managers can pull 
out the colour graphic pages and send them to be printed on colour 
lasers, and let the rest be printed on the monochrome lasers.

%!PS-Adobe-3.0 
%%Creator: ps.r ver 0.0.6 
%%Pages: (atend) 
%%EndComments 
%%Page: Title 1 
72 72 moveto /Times-Roman findfont 
12 scalefont 
setfont 
(page 1) show 
showpage 
%%Page: Body 2 
144 144 moveto (page 2) show 
showpage 

%%Trailer 
%%Pages: 2 
%%EOF

Without re-writing TeX, what I am trying to do is allow text to flow 
from one text box to another on the same page, and then on to other 
pages.

a bit off topic: has any one noticed how often when printing HTML 
pages that the last page that comes out is just empty or useless?

Volker, OpenOffice doesn't include a browser (the versions I've used), 
while StarOffice did (when I used that). So opening a HTML doc in 
OO gives you the wordprocessor with the concept of paper-pages, and 
then you print, what you see.

oops, I remembered wrong. Opening a HTML-file in OpenOffice gives 
you an HTML editor (without the concept of paper-pages). I'll make 
a test...

IIRC OO has multiple views, like pages, continuos. MAybe you can 
simply change that

I have text centring and flow across multiple pages

Henrik, the difficulty is not so much formatting a single line of 
text, but a large block of text of unknown size which may cross multiple 
pages.  PS has functions to exactly allow you to calculate the stringwidth 
of a string, count spaces, etc and these help in writing justification 
routines.  Some complex justification routines are available  ... 
just requires tracking them down if one doesn't want to learn PS 
:)

geomol, I think that it should be kept at a low level. This way I 
or someone else can build a library of standard things on top of 
it to generate formatted pages, tables, formatted paragraphs and 
such.

Perhaps we need a little print-spooler in a multi-user environment? 
May be a good job to solve using REBOL. It should be able to receive 
printjobs from plenty of users at the same time (using multi-threading 
much like the way Apache serve multiple users with web-pages) and 
then send the jobs to the printer one at a time. Maybe someone already 
did it in REBOL? Or if there is a server at hand, just send the jobs 
to the spooler in the server. I'm not too familar with spoolers. 
Will they leave the PostScript printjob as it is, and just send it 
to the printer? I could figure, that Windows spoolers would like 
to change the PS into something else using a print-driver.

Ok, about your page size, I think, it'll give more problems, if you 
specify A4 or Letter explicit. It's better to make some margin, so 
the pages can be printed on both types of paper.

There is a bug with printing multiple pages on certain HP printers. 
After the first page, some char is missing, that causes it to wait 
until you press the Online button or page feed button. I really would 
like that to be fixed. The work-around is to print to a file and 
have it printed using Printfile under Windows.

When you had problem, did you try changing the %%Pages and %%Page 
lines in the ps-doc?

an important detail: I don't think it's single print jobs of multiple 
pages that cause it, but rather multiple single page jobs.

Output from TextEdit printed to a PS file has this in the end:

%%Trailer
%%Pages: 1
%%EOF
^D


The last char (ctrl-D) is hex 04. I think, the comment lines are 
according to "PostScript Language Document Structuring Conventions 
Specification". You can find this document on the net at Adobe. So 
there is a difference in how %%Pages comments are handled. And postscript.r 
doesn't put hex 04 in the end. You could try some of these changes, 
when you have the problem.

That is the big problem, basically, that as in going across pages 
(or being wide).

I'm working on displaying Qwikis (Wikis) on Cell phones.


It is a connected problem, viewing something intended for one medium 
on another.  

My basic plan is:


- Images - make a thumbnail, then let them click on it to see a larger 
or a list of sizes of their choice


- Tables - Show the name of the table, and then a bias, column or 
row, and offer a search.  Then drill down.


When printing big tables to paper you have to decide what to do if 
the table is simply too big for a single piece of paper.

Put the table at the end on multiple pages?

Put a small version of the table (perhaps unreadable), and say "See 
table on Exhibit X"?
Put the table on multiple pages inline?

Convert the table to something else, for example more like a query 
result, where each row is a chunk of data in a new format?

Banner ads are on web pages. You can make banner ads with Flash, 
and that is less dangerous than the current plugin.

I guess all the pages need new tags

Ingo: Pages have to be updated manually to work with FF.

Volker: Uninstall is easier with IE (although I have noticed a few 
bugs with that), but FF/Mozilla simply doesn't support uninstallation. 
Thay say that plainly on their plugin info web pages.

Josh M:  my problems may be with the interface between the chair 
and the keyboard... I tried using the existing demo pages not even 
considering the new tags required for the html pages.  I will double 
check everything when I get a chance.  Sorry for possibly causing 
extra work on your part to trouble shoot.

Hi James, Pekr,


the html code is different for IE vs Mozilla plugins. I'm not sure 
wether the web-pages have already been updated accordingly. (Well, 
actually I'm rather sure they haven't ;-)

You're using Cheyenne as the web server, so probably Cheyenne is 
doing the rebol script as it would to support Rebol Server Pages.

You should look into Cheyenne's options regarding Rebol Server Pages 
and see it there's a way to disable it for certain scripts.

From @MaxV
New Rebol plugin for R2: 
you can visit: http://www.maxvessi.net/rebsite/plugin/index.html

to test if it works, tha pages contain some scripts. If you want, 
I can adder more...

For example, from this url: http://foo.com/pages/edit/1-- I get 
the Request_Uri value "/pages/edit/1" then parse it -- ["pages" "edit" 
"1"] -- here I have a controller, and action and an id.  It is a 
more enduring approach than http://foo.com/cgi-bin/qm.r?controller=pages&action=edit&id=1

If I type http://localhost/pages/this-- I need to run /cgi/qm.r 
and have access to '/pages/this'

Yes, I quite happy with the speed and stability of the new implementation, 
I have RSP pages with 3 SQL queries to a MySQL backend, input and 
output filters, session handling, tables constructed dynamically 
with data from DB, all this occuring in a few milliseconds...I still 
need to test how it scales.

1- raw RSP pages : no session data

I'm seeing some possibilities here ... for combining multiple tools 
to build web sites.  We have Max's Remark which can preprocess scripts 
which cuts down considerably on writing web pages, Cheyenne for serving 
them up, and Chris' QM to structure the site's logic/display.

This is a pretty nice system Doc has given us...I still can't get 
sessions to work, but
I'm leaning to RSP for all future pages...

I think the whole asp, php, rsp model is done.  Embedding code into 
a standard page will be replaced by dynamically generated pages.

mod-static (static pages), mod-action (CGI)

I've done some stress test on a previous version of Cheyenne, it 
was sustaining around 500 concurrent connections on static pages 
requests. (RSP have a limitation of  <500 due to a design bug in 
task-master. This bug will be fixed in a few days).

I might be able to help with  this.. 
Customizable HTTP error pages.

What did you have in mind?

Customizable HTTP error pages: server-side redirection on 4xx and 
5xx errors to any pages, user-defined in config file.

And this to save me defining lots of static code in pages that is 
the same everywhere

Would it be difficult to encap all the rsp pages with Cheyenne so 
that Cheyenne grabs the rsp pages from it's virtual filing system?

web services usually use http, but don't serve out cgi nor web "pages"... 
so the return values are always processed.

http://127.0.0.1/testappand   http://127.0.0.1/testapp/are 
two different pages..

That will take a while - I have too many pages open that I haven't 
read yet.

Cheyenne server upgraded again. The new on-the-fly RSP output compression 
should make RSP pages loading 2x faster on average than before (but 
you may not noticed as CC pages load already very fast)

My request for whom ever hosts the page is that they "think" they 
can keep the page in place for a long time in the future.  My hope 
is to eventually get all these devcon pages over to one place for 
historical reasons.

Hi Janko and RobertS :)  I added your names to the list of attendees. 
  The event will take place at 3pm EST December 27th, at http://rockfactory.us/rooms/room22
 .  As stated, user/pass is devcon/devcon  (those pages will all 
be deleted after the event, and I'll be monitoring to kick/ban unwanted 
visitors from any of the chat/audio/video communications as needed, 
so that first line of security is not a big concern - it's primarily 
just to deter random lookee-loos :)

Chris, may I suggest we set up the wiki website such that at the 
top is a given even (Name + Date) and that everything else be put 
on one big page.  

This has a lot of advantages.  This is not to say people can't put 
things on other pages, but if we do it this way, everything can be 
in one place.

You come to the Home page, then click on the event you are interestested 
in, and that is it.

There's a lot to that.  I was kind of using the DevCon '05 as a model 
(my fav so far) where all the info is knee deep on the front page 
with more detail on sub pages.

Btw: it seems that the url for the 2007 DevCon has changed.  I'll 
try and keep http://2007.rebolconf.infopointed to the correct site...


Alternately, if whoever maintains the 2007 DevCon pages wishes me 
to host them under the above address, I'll be happy to...

Example of multiples pages printing :

So, how are you doing it ? multiple pages and text flow?

and if I run out of text boxes, it just keeps reusing the last text 
box ... for all subsequent pages

I have multipage preview working ... some time ... I have a block 
of draw blocks and I am supposed to switch between them to page thru 
the different pages.