AltME groups: search

so, guys, not having OX-X here ... could you give it a test drive 
and post onto OS-X group here?

Holy-days? :-) OS-X version finally coming? :-)

eFishAnt your right !!! in a C# ressource explorer motion (wich you 
can see in Shardevolp IDE for example ) could be an amazing thing 
and even more if the same code all you to do so on evry OS rebol 
stands in

I have an "old" copy.  Don't know if it os corrupt or not.  I'm sending 
it your way....

os = is

Dear Library Team,


   I've only got a single script in the library, but I like it, and 
   I'd like it to live through the R3 update.

Are there any plans for adding explicit rebol versioning to scripts 
that want to stand the test of time?


   Is having multiple binaries on target REBOL platforms a no-no?  Meaning, 
   could the released binary packages for REBOL 3.0 include REBOL 1.3 
   (2.7) executables so scripts don't age out as fast as they did when 
   going from 1.2 to 1.3?  A little bit of configuring on the host OS 
   to start the correct REBOL by extension, shebang, or resource fork 
   on MacOS?  Can DO add a secret launch of older/other binary if a 
   Needs: is specified?

Curious.

OS X has a default palette of rather bright colors for highlighting 
to choose from, suggesting the text colors to be dark, so the text 
still can be read when selected.

it is overall interesting issue - to get rebol running on various 
platforms in a way so it adheres to particular platform habits .... 
OS-X, WinCE being reported as Rebol feeling kind of hostile there 
...

that will work as the same on every OS that rebol stand in ;)

I think the real problem is that open-source project can't invest 
into a hudge advertising campaign like  commercial apps. So the only 
way for open source project to be known is beeing included into open 
OS distributions :)

Kaj, why AGG nor Cairo were found as insufficient for Syllable purposes? 
IIRC it is Cairo, which will be used by Mozilla platform or even 
OS-X to render, no?

you guys are terrific :-) In current days, when only Windows and 
Linux are considered as having chance to succeed, well, I forgot 
OS-X of course :-)

how does the reboot time for syllable compare with other os's?  Does 
it make it viable to run as a server?

Because what I expect from usable OS is: browser, communication tool 
(IRC, ICQ, ...), audio software, some office suite (it's needed sometimes), 
REBOL and some games (or UAE ;). That's what I'm using 99% of time.

Dont know that eally well myself. what i firued out: usually (debian, 
suse) startup-scripts are in /etc/init.d. on debian there is a /etc/init.d/skeleton 
as base for own script. then there are the runlevels in /etc/rc?d/. 
links there go to /etc/init.d/ an tell the system what to start/stop. 
the numbers in the filenames are the priority, lowest run first. 
Usually there is a gui-tool like yast or ksysv which scans /etc/init.d/ 
for scripts and makes the appropriate links. tricky things are to 
write the startup-script, to figure out which runlevel to use and 
how the os figures out what to stop. although if you dont need that 
runlevel smartness, because you call it on boot and let it be killed 
by shutdown, you can just use a normal bash-script.

otherwise you're better off letting them handle the os upgrade or 
better ask for a up to date box (e.g. with Fedora core 4) and migrate

I've installed Ubuntu for my girlfriend and it seems to work without 
problems. My win-comp crashed badly again so I'm thinging about changing 
my OS. I want to know what alternatives are there, what distro seems 
to work best. I tried Mepis yesterday but was dissapointed, it had 
some strange problems.

Damn Small Linux 2.0 released..  http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/index.html


Damn Small is small enough and smart enough to do the following things:


    * Boot from a business card CD as a live linux distribution (LiveCD)
    * Boot from a USB pen drive

    * Boot from within a host operating system (that's right, it can 
    run *inside* Windows)

    * Run very nicely from an IDE Compact Flash drive via a method we 
    call "frugal install"

    * Transform into a Debian OS with a traditional hard drive install
    * Run light enough to power a 486DX with 16MB of Ram

    * Run fully in RAM with as little as 128MB (you will be amazed at 
    how fast your computer can be!)

    * Modularly grow -- DSL is highly extendable without the need to 
    customize

Well, its not designed for binaries.. Interface os thru a wrapper, 
distribute the wrapper and rebol.o, problem solved..

using different version of the same lib just because they have a 
different name is something you can do in any os. a newer version 
of a library should *always* be compatible with older software, so 
that you never need to have two versions.

Brian, exactly. The fact that MS still dominates the world of OS 
and Apps when there is so much OSS is a very good example.

no, I don't have x-windows powered linux here ... I was just curious, 
as there were some features not supported iirc? but maybe I am confused 
because of os-x version ... well, agg does not use fonts, but dunno 
if true or not ...

because im building some draing tool ...did it under windows but 
like to build it under linux as it is my main Os...

nice .... what about OS-X - does it use FreeType too? Windows uses 
TrueType, right?

echo $OSTYPE display the "type" of OS using tsch shell. 

On a Mac it echoes darwin

my linux troubles (this is longer)


I'm pretty frustrated at this moment, maybe somebody can help me...


I'm linux newbie, I'm using it for 6 months or so. I've installed 
Ubuntu for my girlfriend and it works OK. So I decided to install 
linux for me too. I've got Athlon X64 computer, so I tried 64bit 
version of Ubuntu. But you cannot run 32bit programs under 64bit 
Linux, so no REBOL or AltMe. OK, I can live with 32bit linux, no 
problem. So I installed MEPIS. It's not bad, it has got media support 
but...it's KDE.


I never knew anything about KDE vs. Gnome vs. whatever wars, I just 
don't care, but day after day I found KDE to be bloated, slow and 
buggy. Compared to elegance of Ubuntu on my girfriend's computer 
I decided that I just don't like KDE, I don't like all that menus 
where I'm always lost, long loading times, that awful blue theme, 
childish icons and everything K-labeled. Every window and every button 
on KDE looks so BIG compared to windows GUI, it's just a waste of 
screens's space. So I tried different window managers and found Xfce, 
icebox and some other small and fast window managers. But running 
MEPIS with different window manager than KDE was not optimal so I 
decided to remove MEPIS and install xubuntu. Everything was OK and 
I had xubuntu instaled.


One day later I managed to exchange my gfx card. I was using Matrox 
Millenium 2MB PCI card and exchanged it for 3D labs Banshee 16MB 
PCI card (I know that both cards are somehow underpowered for my 
computer but that's OK, I don't play any 3d games, so I don't need 
some new card). I've booted into Windows and everything was OK. I 
can even select resolution better than 1024x768 (because that's not 
optimal resolution for 21" monitor :-) So I restarted and booted 
into xubuntu. x-server didn't start. 


As I said, I'm linux newbie so I don't want to mess with some config 
files so I said to myself OK, I reinstall it, it's just one day old 
installation, no problem. I've booted the live-cd, grub let me choose 
resolution of 1280x1024, I booted xubuntu and - it was running in 
640x480. Yes, I had the choice to change resolution - but only to 
320x240. I tried ubuntu (gnome) and it was the same. ubuntu's x-server 
probably does not support my banshee gfx card. I tried MEPIS also 
and - it worked! I can boot mepis 3.3.1 live cd in 1024x768 (but 
not more - with windows, I can go up to 1920x1440). But when I boot 
mepis, I do see that KDE desktop thing and it makes me feel sick 
(hell, even windows seem to be more fun to use than KDE for me!).


So, what now? I cannot use windows only (1. i don't like it :) 2. 
it's got problems of its own - it cannot download files bigger than 
cca 1MB without error. Probably some driver problem but I still haven't 
found a sollution. this is not problem on linux) and I don't like 
KDE. I know that there's one sollution - to buy relatively new pci-x 
n-vidia gfx card and problems may be gone. but that's not what I 
want to do. That 3dfx banshee is good enough for me, I just want 
some fast and small OS running on it.


Maybe I'm just missing a computer that can boot in 15 seconds into 
full GUI enviroment (yes, my old Amiga :)

Rondon: I think he's referring to the fact that the Shebang, ( the 
first line of the CGI) is a Shell command to tell the OS to load 
the Rebol interpreter.

But I could be wrong.

I'd like to let my cgi script to be easy portable. I already moved 
them twice on tree different unix-like OS successfully, but I had 
always the problem of the first row. If in the first row I wrote 
#!/usr/local/rebol/rebol -c I need, in the new hosting OS, to have 
Rebol installed in thet dir. But this is not always true (or simple 
to set up). So I'd like to use a "portable syntax". Now, I did various 
tests but I couldn't find a solution. I already tryed:

1) #!/scripttorebol, where  "scripttorebol" is a script containing 
#!/usr/local/rebol/rebol -c on the first row. But it doesn't work 
because the rebol code is even interpreted by the OS shell

ldd rebol-view-executable

 under Linux could tell you what libraries are needed. If that is 
 not much (e.g. one library being dependant upon other etc.), you 
 could try to upload those libraries to where your view executable 
 resides. The question is, what is Linux OS strategy to look for libraries 
 - current dir, some central libraries storage path, elsewhere ...?

hmm, size-text - it does sound like a native. IMO it is wrapper for 
OS level function, returning pixel size of particular text .... could 
that be a problem of some missing os library?

My ISP just changed OS for FreeBSD 6.2 - and all my rebol cgi scripts 
are not working! What should I ask them to?

1) Think multicore
2) think memory is cheap (2Gb per core)
3) Typically,  /Core  consumes 8 mb of memory

4) do not encap, use  amodule management system like my 'require 
or Ladislav's 'include

5) wrt 3 and 4: the OS starts using its disk cache etc. After a few 
hits these operations will be cheap

6) do all session mgt etc in a database => sales up as well, no state, 
share nothing

Now, what happens? The OS will start distributing the CGI processes 
over the multiple cores. Using the disk cache etc to speed loading 
times, enough memory per core on the processor. A 8Gb RAM quadcore 
should be able to run +- 1000 procs/sec (rough estimate). That's 
just one box, with that load it should be profitable. And as you 
obey rule 6, you can scale up and load balance pretty easily.

not virtualising OS this days is imo a mistake, no? :-)

Are you sure OS distributes CGI processes to different Cores? Is 
e.g. Apache working that way?

If they are separate processes, the OS should balance over cores.

Gregg: really? I thought that the reason why R3 will use threads 
for tasking instead of tasks is, that OS can better balance threads? 
Anyway, those questions are for gurus, I can only wonder :-)

petr, the processes are managed by the OS too. *obviously* the os 
will distribute processes among processors. (unless the os has no 
multiprocessor support, that is). distributing threads is more difficult 
(because of the shared memory), however all good threading implementations 
should do it, and if you programs the threads correctly you can get 
the performance boost.

Maarten, I agree with your observation and you can even scale it 
more.


If you see a web-server as just a request dispatcher to CGIs and 
a fast-answering-machine for user-feedback (pages, forms etc.) you 
just need a small and "simple" one like Cheyenne. The CGIs can be 
distributed to different cores (through the OS) or even to different 
machines (via TCP/IP).

Keyboards leave a lot to be desired. I would like to see the often-used 
technique of copy and paste to be given more prominence on the keyboard 
(and supporting OS).

Found a tool for css and firefox. Opens an editor in the sidebar 
with css for the main-page. and updates main-page on the fly on edit. 
https://addons.update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?application=firefox&version=1.0&os=MacOSX&category=DeveloperTools&numpg=10&id=179>EditCSS

I like the idea of a cookbook entry to check on versions. It could 
be expanded to check on OS and other things (what system is this 
script running on?)

BeOS had the annotated BeBook:  http://www.beunited.org/bebook/
 It was pretty useful  back when people were really coding for the 
OS.

normally this shoutcast solution is supported by all OS and computers...

if we take MacOS X example we all know what is the gain for Apple 
but it is more blur to see what is the befefit that OpenBSD project 
writers retrieves of this experience. A part a spot light put uppon 
there project. But every a little serrious coder was yet knowing 
that freeBSD and OpenBSD were rock stable OS

Josh, recording ? There are only OS specific ways so far.

Oldes, thanks. Do this

 load-thru/update http://anton.wildit.net.au/rebol/os/make-external-library-interface.r
then try again.

well, just kidding ... it depends .... easy things are easily don 
... if you will insist on OS behavior compatibility, there might 
be some work included - but for scientific kind of stuff, it is pretty 
good imo. I do remember how relatively easily I got my results with 
Matlab ..

Adobe AIR beta provides additional features to enhance operating 
system integration:

    * Background applications

    * System tray icon (Windows) / Dock bar bounce (Mac OS X) notification
    * Default windows menus
    * Z-order control for native windows
    * Bitmap drag-and-drop support
    * Customization of program folder entry
    * New Mac and Windows install location

As far as I understand it R3 will allow you to port to any platform 
or OS. I'm sure there is an exlanation of how this is to be done.

Runtime Core - Closed: This is the OS independent kernel that provides 
standard REBOL capabilities across all systems and devices. It is 
this component that makes REBOL operate identically on Windows, OSX, 
Linux, BSD, Sony, Nokia, Nintendo, and other systems.
-from the above document.

Will: I'm guessing that you meant a version running with /core under 
OS X.

Will: When I tried to load the latest version of RWSF under Mac OS 
X it failed as it calls a Windows DLL.

Q. Given that  window transparency is OS specific, will there be 
a dialect that covers both Windows, Linux and 40+ other OS?  In other 
words, does RT plan on continued support of so many languages, or 
are we entering a new era of specific OS support?

Q: What does the world on Nov-15-2005 look like?


A: Our main goal is to get REBOL into the hands of more users, not 
just programmers and techies.... by the millions over time.  By doing 
that, we create a market for not only handy free REBOL apps, but 
also for commercial apps and entire businesses that are related to 
REBOL.



Q: Given that  window transparency is OS specific, will there be 
a dialect that covers both Windows, Linux and 40+ other OS?  In other 
words, does RT plan on continued support of so many languages, or 
are we entering a new era of specific OS support?


A: Our plan is to make that a window option that is part of the face/options 
for a window.  If an OS does not support this mode, then the option 
will be ignored, but the application will still be fully functional.



Q: I hope it is still valid that cooperation with RT is possible. 
I mean - last few weeks I play with some Win32 functions (thanks 
to Gregg) and I would like we would have proper app behavior in multi-monitor/multi-desktop 
environments .... so I wonder if any SIGs will be created, some ppl 
will be invited to participate, comment etc., or if RT is gonna cook 
it all themselves?


A: Yes, there are many such special interest projects currently going 
on. (Most of them are occurring via private projects in AltME and 
IOS.)  These days 90% of REBOL changes are done in cooperation with 
the REBOL community.



Q: Hi .... with recent Rebcode releases, we can see that internally 
new Core is marked as 2.7 and View is marked as 1.4 Is it just working 
"title" or will those products be marked as that? And if so, can 
we know, what other changes will go for 1.4 View release target? 
Will there be any AGG fixes/additions (to support SVG RebGUI progress), 
or even VID changes? I still think, that VID is missing few fine 
styles as tab, group-box, better list as was introduced on IOS Developer's 
server, (eventually tree, menu), to allow novices to start using 
VID/View more productively. Any chance RT can tell us, what is the 
plan for 1.4 release?


A: Regarding 2.7 and 1.4 question: we change the revision numbers 
(the second number) whenever there is a major change in REBOL that 
may be unstable.  The /core 2.7 kernel (that is in /view 1.4 as well) 
adds new datatypes to REBOL, and they are the first datatypes added 
in several years, so we consider this to be a major change, and marked 
it that way.
Yes, we do plan to be making a few AGG fixes very soon.

Oh, and regarding VID: we plan to be making very big changes there. 
More to come soon.


Q: Could you add struct! support to /Core?

I keep on having situations that would be made much easier by struct! 
when I don't need libraries. For instance, conversions from external 
binary data encodings to internal REBOL values, say for file formats, 
network protocols and so on. Now rebcode has added other forms of 
strong typing like the type-specific opcodes and the vectors. Having 
structs with their constrained field types, their specific data layouts, 
would be a perfect match for the low level operations of rebcode. 
They would be helpful later when implementing your own data types 
as well.


A: On structs: yes, we will enable this feature on core, but it should 
only be used for lower level code.  Objects are more powerful.


Q: Could you add an APPLY opcode to rebcode?

    apply: ["Apply function or path to arguments, save result" word! 
    word! | path! block!]

In rebcode:
    apply x f [arg1 arg2 ...]
Is equivalent to this in REBOL:
    x: do f arg1 arg2 ...


The advantage to doing function calls this way is that the arity 
of the opcode is fixed, even if the arity of the function called 
can't be known ahead of time. The value assigned to the function 
word could be either a function or a path, or for efficiency you 
could have a seperate opcode APPLYP for path values (I'd prefer just 
one opcode for generality but it's your call).


A: I'm not sure what is meant by the path for it. You mean for refinements?
That may actually slow down the apply interface.

changes re technology, or just that platform changes, so e.g. OS-X 
gets priority etc.? :-)

Is there any schedule for anything actually? Rebcode, rich-text, 
rif? All we know for past two months is OS-X is being worked on/updated, 
and some unconfirmed rumours of Rebol 3.0 being considered to be 
developed. Any other info?

First release of  COMLib-anton    (Benjamin Maggi's COMLib, reengineered)
http://home.wilddsl.net.au/anton/rebol/os/windows/COMLib/

http://home.wilddsl.net.au/anton/rebol/os/windows/COMLib/files.html

COMLib website update:
Added outlook-calendar.r and outlook-contacts.r demos.
Fixed a few bugs in the main rebol interface file, COMLib.r
http://home.wilddsl.net.au/anton/rebol/os/windows/COMLib/

I don't know of anyone that's wrapped the ability to use native Windows 
controls in a REBOL dialect, though it *might* be possible. I think 
Cal (and maybe Cyphre or Oldes) have emebedded native OS windows 
in a View window. You might also be able to do it by creating your 
own windows, using the API, and then interacting with them behind 
the scenes. It would be a lot of work though, and be highly OS specific.

Pekr: You can create and control any windows dialog if you have the 
API available. (and this can be applied to any other OS feature). 
So it is possible to create native GUI controlable at the higher 
level of some dialect(simmilar to VID/Rebgui). People who are making 
common apps don't need to access it at face level but ofcourse such 
system would be based on face-like objects with methods related to 
Windows GUI elements etc.

of course, maybe it just depends, how professional you intend to 
be, but as I showed you, completly OS compatible look is not so important. 
What is imo more important is the feel. If we can't get visual representation 
of accelerator keys, ctrl tab, rich text, key precise behavior for 
ui elements, that is what I see as a problem ....

the question is, with Google and others pushing the envelope, how 
long OS itself will be driving factor of IT evoluion, or it will 
become a commodity :-)

From my POV  View is still very ligthweight and powerful system for 
OS independent solutions.

I think that what Henrik feels as a problem is not actually "look" 
at all, but it is the "feel", which is the culprit. I expect UI elements 
as drop-down, etc., react to keyboard, mouse, just the same as if 
it would be OS app, or it is denerving, stopping my productivity, 
which is based upon certain customs ....

Cyphre - I also agree with your another pov, which you had in the 
past. It all seems simple at the beginning, but once you delve more 
deeply into it, things start to complicate. Bringing native OS binding 
for Rebol imo would cost many resources. And I believe first version 
would be just ugly wrapper, containing more or less stright conversion, 
using Win32 logic. Isn't there a fact, that others do use other, 
mainly cross-platform bindings? We have View, but wouldn't native 
toolkit project be just reinventing the wheel? Others use tk, gtk, 
qt, wxwidgets, etc.

And I would post the article too "Why I don't use MagmaOS" :-), but 
the reasons are obvious :-) I want small rebol os :-)

Pekr, "why I am looking into mini-itx stuff". I have been waiting 
for nano-ITX for the last two years ... and in that time Apple have 
released Mac mini and announced Mac mini for x86.


I've done the sums, even with the wholesale prices I can get on most 
of the PC components (Via board, laptop HDD, RAM, Case plus time/cost 
of assembly), and the current Mac mini still comes out cheaper and 
quieter even with all the Mac software pre-bundled.


If Apple can release the new Intel-based Mac mini at the same or 
better prices, with the same or better specs, then why would anyone 
wait for Via to get their act together when they can buy a cost-effective 
off-the-shelf solution today, even if it means ditching OS X for 
Linux or Windows?!

 even if it means ditching OS X for Linux or Windows?!

  - not understanding here.  You're saying that Mac hardware might 
  be cheaper then building it yourself.  And then you ditch OSX so 
  you can run windows/linux on the Mac ?

well - I have never used OS-X, but I am not scared - but - I need 
modern codecs - divx, xvid in codeck-pack or ffdshow, bsplayer ... 
just give me those sw on OS-x

I also fear - touching OS-X, as good unix based derivative, would 
mean no way back for me to crappy Windows, where still inserting 
the floppy may mean your OS is gonna block for few secs ;-)

pekr, of course all these things are already available for OSX and 
have been for a long time. One thing that kind of surprised me is 
how many apps surpass Windows equivalents in quality, simply because 
the underlying foundation with Cocoa is incredibly strong. You can 
tap into a lot of amazing functions and the OS itself can do things 
where Windows would need third party software to do the same.

For example, look at Jaime's presentation from the REBOL conference. 
It was done in Keynote which is a presentation program made by Apple 
which makes Powerpoint look like a silly joke. It uses full 3D hardware 
acceleration and can apply pixel shader effects to the presentation 
through Core Image. By having a very strong set of video functions 
as well, presentations can be exported to a lot of different videoformats 
from DV to H264 or MPEG4, etc. in any size or framerate. You can 
also convert parts of it to a PDF document or a bitmap image. All 
this is possible, because OSX does this in Cocoa and is available 
at the developer's fingertips. This is also what made apps like iMovie 
possible, because they integrate into OSX.


Often the wrong question to ask is "Does program X exist for OSX?", 
because the programs are different and often of much higher quality. 
A lot of programs don't even have Windows equivalents. The community 
reminds me a bit of what bedroom programmers did during the old days 
of the Amiga, when they used the hardware and made beautiful demos. 
There are a lot of small, free apps available that do 2-3 things.

There are other languages bundle with the OS, from the top of my 
head Perl, Phyton and Ruby

BSD API is not the problem, this API only covers interaction at the 
low level with the OS. For graphics you need to use either Carbon 
API or Cocoa API.

what os are you running ?

Three problems with them:


1) The widget engine is a hefty 12MB or so download (for widgets 
that are nothing other than HTML+CSS+Javascript+Images bundled in 
a zip file with a magic extension)

2) The download/installation process tries repeatedly to high-jack 
your browser preferences

3) The widgets look pretty ordinary compared to the OS X dashboard 
equivalents (go here, http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/and 
compare the respective dictionary/thesaurus offerings)

I still think it is so far the bes commercial OS design ... many 
say so about Plan9, but I don't know it. I met Dan Dodge back in 
98 in Germany, when Gateway choosed QNX as a future kernel for AmigaOS. 
What a pity it all failed ...

Imagine a small kernal, sever stitched together drivers, and nothing 
more than a browser with a built in frame work for the UI.  This 
would be more than good enough for 95% of people's computer needs. 
 No Linux, no OSX, no Windows.  Barely an OS at all.

MagmaOs (Rebol OS) was supposed to be like that, no? :-)

Reichart: That sounds like the old browser & OS on floppy disk demo 
that QNX had.

Maybe something for Rebol as well:


dsandler writes "Researchers at Rice University have just released 
version 0.7 

of FeedTree, a peer-to-peer system for distributing Web feeds faster. 
Instead of 

polling feeds independently, FeedTree users cooperate to share news 
updates 

using multicast in Pastry, a scalable p2p overlay network. FeedTree 
reduces the 

update delay for existing RSS and Atom feeds to a few minutes without 
putting 

extra stress on the webserver (anyone who's ever been temporarily 
banned by 

Slashdot's RSS feed knows this is a real concern). Feed publishers 
can also 

choose to push digitally signed updates for immediate, tamper-proof 
delivery to 

subscribers. The client software (download) runs on Linux, OS X, 
and Windows, 
and works with any desktop feed reader." 
 
http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot?m=3816

Henrik: is Flash even installed any more?  Seems it's distributed 
with the OS nowadays.

.... on more point to UI - I really don't know, what to do with pop-ups. 
I suggest, for REBOL 3.0 View, to have rebol based windowing system, 
not to use separate native OS dialogs, or we are doomed here. Each 
view/new means new window, and ppl who are used to add-block will 
feel uncomfortable imo ....

a problem I've noticed about flash is that performance is very uneven 
under different OS'es. Macromedia...oops Adobe :-) might not prioritize 
the OSX version as highly as the Windows version. Flash for OSX is 
absurdly slow compared to other graphics engines for OSX. It alienates 
the OSX users because of those issues. REBOL/plugin may not necessarily 
suffer such crossplatform issues.

so all the point was that Flash does not necessarily mean Rebol is 
in the same league. But it was my non-knowledge - I did not know 
they can change menu, thanks for enlightenment, I thought the menu 
is the same because it (the plug-in)  is only a player .... I would 
vote for context menu, but in rebol, what is menu, right? We don't 
use native OS widgets, so just how to do it ....

as for browser preference, for me it is IE, FF, Opera, other ...., 
I can see Opera dominating embedded space (PDAs, cell-phones), but 
maybe it is because penetration of OS-X here is nearly non-existant 
... but as someone pointed out - whole world except MS uses Netscape 
API plug-in and even for IE, you can develop ActiveX, which wraps 
the same plug-in, so maybe RT would not have to develop separate 
versions .... otoh we are talking wrappers only anyway, the main 
part is View in .dll form ...

joshm: this may not be entirely related, but I'd like to see some 
kind of event throttling, because of the very varying mouse position 
sample frequency under different OS'es. too many events slows VID 
down

From an architecture perspective, an application should be able to 
handle as many events as the OS throws at it. Especially for graphics-intensive 
applications: those extra mouse events make a huge difference.

But a more elaborate benchmark may show closer results between these 
too. Size of files and OS have big impacts on the results.

Are you using the exe version or source version ? What OS ? Any crash.log 
file found ?

IIRC via set-modes/get-modes, you can know what adapter is involved. 
I am afraid there is no other way how to prevent this. Opening a 
socket is OS thing imo, and I wonder if C socket functions allow 
you to choose your device?

there are still stability issue on heavy traffic, at least on OS 
X

Content of Carl's presentation was updated:

Introducing REBOL 3.0
 by Carl Sassenrath

(The content will be spread in probably more than one session)

Opening and a historical note.


What makes a system popular? Is it the language, the platform, or 
the applications? The bigger picture: the virtual OS. Moving beyond 
conventional OS models. Being a latform. The core of modern applications 
- it's not what you think.


The motivation for R3. The guiding theme. Portablity and extensibility 
- the R3 open foundation. Overview of R3 features.


Environments - embedding REBOL. Building your own version of REBOL 
- within a standard. Plugins - extending REBOL. The IO device model 
- how to create a device.


New datatypes. The Module architecture. Tasks, threads, and more. 
The new graphics system. All new port design. New debugging methods. 
New object tricks. DB access nd indexed files. IPv6 discussion. Compatibility 
- taming the lion. What's next? When and where can you get a copy? 
The goal of DevBase and DocBase.

hmm, it would be cool, if those devices could run Rebol OS one day. 
With R3 that is a possibility one day :-)

R3 status update:
  240 kbytes
  57 data types
  71 actions
  124 natives
Missing so far
  async http
  security requestor
  unicode OS API 
Release dates:
  select developers 1-jan-2007
  primary developers 30-jun
  general developers: 15-jul

Carl says Unicode issue is mainly the OS interface.....That will 
be part of the Open source part of REBOL....Hence need to find a 
Unicode expert to write / design it. It could be you, Petr!

I just checked the code. I made it under Linux, and it gives an error 
regarding a "dirty?" variable with View 2.7 under OS X. I can get 
it running with 2.6.

There are 2 OpenGL implementations for REBOL already. One by Cyphre, 
that require REBOL/Command (I think), and mine requiring GLServer 
(compiled C program, only for OS X so far).