AltME groups: search

it is creepy when this list gets sooo silent for long periods of 
time...

There's no list traffic either, and no blog update

OK...I understand.  Will put on my todo list ... thanks.

Jaime - the thing is - we are very near with Rebol, but not there 
yet, and that is a pity. Dunno what would be neede, but IIRC even 
Carl told us, that better granularity for events is needed and it 
was his plan, but not high on priority list. Dunno if opening View 
would help here ...

cool to see the list is waking up again :-)

from the mailing list

Try the unset function  - http://rebol.com/docs/words/wunset.html


Generally, I find the core user guide at http://rebol.com/docs/core23/rebolcore.html
, 

  the function dictionary at http://rebol.com/docs/dictionary.html
  ,

 and the mailiing list archive at http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/ml-index.r

very useful in finding the answers to such questions.

but it is another reason not to forsake the mail list

.oO(actually, it's a mutant originally based on RH7.2, so I probably 
shouldn't include that in the list)

R: I would add to our list of mail-list users, all altme users whenever 
safeworlds single point of failure archetecure rears it's head

why business policy? Do you think SafeWorlds wants to keep it under 
control? Well, bad service then? I don't believe they don't have 
at least two machines. Alme client could contain list of alternative 
look-up server - it would cover most outages imo ...

view layout [text-list data  d]

I guess you want an output that shows a text-list with the hostname 
joined to the port?

>> d: ["1.2.3.4:1080" "3.54.6.4:1039" "43.5.4.3:3380"]
== ["1.2.3.4:1080" "3.54.6.4:1039" "43.5.4.3:3380"]
>> view layout [text-list data d]

here's the old rebol.org list, probably a few missed gems in there. 
http://web.archive.org/web/20021208011501/www.rebol.org/fl-list.html

loop, repeat, for. I'm not covering iterating through a list yet.

Well, I take a brief glance at iterating through a list in the last 
part of the chapter.

YourValues, GoogleGroup, Portal, Vanilla, Disaster Relief, Fav Blogs, 
Recycle Bug, Nederland, and France are on my list.

Does anyone know if Thunderbird can hide all the reply junk in incoming 
mail ?  I read a mailing list where >>>>>>> is not uncommon !
thanks

Hi, 


I would like to ask about how to implement best the auto-upgrade 
facility in rebol. Now the question is, how to aproach it best way. 
IIRC, Detective does something like that. Will you help me to answer 
some of my thoughts?


- typically the mechanism can be rather easy - just go and read some 
site, check for filesize, if differs, upgrade. But that might not 
be sufficient ..


- or you can store somewhere .txt (.cfg whatver file), containing 
rebol block or object, and do some more clever stuff. Basically following 
questions come to my mind:

- do just simple version check and upgrade to higher version?

- imagine an app, developing rather fast, producing xy version in 
the beginning = update often - the list can get long to load - but 
- you have to maintain it, as some ppl can be on vacation and still 
running old version - so - split it into separate, per-version file? 
I mean - making reverse aproach - provide updating config file for 
each version available. example - you have version 1.0, there were 
two other releases, 1.1 and 1.2 - you check 1.0 upgrade cfg and it 
tells you, you can go directly to 1.2 version ... or not, and you 
go to 1.1 first, then to 1.2 .... the reason is, that some version 
might require to rebuild data structures etc etc., so it is not always 
only about switching .exe

Or am I complicating it in unnecessary way? any ideas?

Does anyone on this list live in (or near) Hamilton, Ohio?

Sunanda - that is one particular source of info - my point was not 
to point at one particular site and its weakness/advantage, but to 
provide list of various types of rebol related info sources and to 
discuss possible ways of how to better consolidate those various 
sources ...

rebol.org is the library site and the mailing list site.  It's not 
an aggregator site.

Please, no IOS.

My suggestion, promote the mailing list..and use IRC.

Example, the committe in charge can use IRC for regular discussions, 
and anyone who may have interests on any topic can just logon to 
the channel and take part.


Reduce the 'elitism' part. ....make it more accessible for developers. 
Some of them could be on Mac etc.

rebol.org - afaik its hosted on some shared server. maybe we can 
host it on the dedicated too? Then Sunanda & team can play whit daemons. 
chat, auto-filesyncing etc.

rebol-org, layout. IMHO it looks like slashdot. :)) I see rebol.com 
and rebolcentral as the use-sites and rebol.net, rebol.org as the 
programmer-sites. central and .org could share some things, like 
list of projects. But some thingslike the ML-arhcive is better on 
.org, and a clear "nerds"-look may be a good signal.

I'd like a basic cross-platform data manager of the sort Ashley suggests.

That can then be used to build SQL type databases for those who want 
them. 

Or list type databases (for people like me who use that sort of approach 
a lot)
Or whatever.
No need to prematurely bind to the relational model/

What's your "list type databases"?

An SQL type database is one where the basic unit of storage is an 
atomic data item, though packaged into rows / tuples.   Getting rid 
of 1NF data (recurring groups) is the first thing you are taught 
to do.

In a list type database the basic unit of storage is a list (think 
REBOL block). That's far from being 1NF, especially as a list can 
contain other lists.

his list is not list, it is full featured grid and it needs additional 
work ...

http://www.compkarori.com/vanilla/display/list+examples


Here is documented the face, count and index variables.  There are 
similar functions throughout VID.

about list, thats a complicated issue IMHO, because list is heavily 
optimized to show very big lists with good performance and low memory 
use. Thats done by a trick (iterated faces). And that trick is hard 
to wrap in a generic way. 

The other option is to do it trickless, means put all in a big layout, 
one face for each row. thats like conference/messenger/altme do it. 
not that performant (all this programs restrict the number of messages, 
only the last n). but to do it, you only have to append vid-code 
like
 text (name) 100 text  (msg) 300 text (date) 100

for each line and layout that. most flexible way, you can even edit 
each field. but don't come back and tell me its hungry/slow! then 
you have to use that index count list - stuff, maybe somewhat better 
wrapped.

Volker: but Cyphre, with his my-list, can display millions of records, 
as it uses caching, yet it does not suffer from 'supply problem I 
outlined. And btw - interesting point towards 'list. I wonder what 
was the reason Carl did not put his improved list into 1.3? It was 
created in older 1.3 project days, along with chech-line, radion-line, 
which are inside, newer list is not. It seemed to me as tested, improved, 
 compatible, so worth inclusion at least ...

such thing should be done via accessor functions - set-face, get-face

 - i think Carl changed philosophie here. The old vid is good for 
 simple forms. Why use an accessor when you simply can inline the 
 data into the layout? But it works not so well when you want to change 
 displayed data. Text-list for example where not even prepared to 
 have data updated. thats where accessors come in. instead of re-layout 
 reuse the old faces and change their values.

accessors - i did not mean different methods as in "methods fr different 
faces". its different concepts. in old vid it works this way:

you put data in the face as in [filed "Hello" check on] etc. kind 
of set-accessor.

when data changes, you handle it in the action and pt it back in 
the db.

the action gets a parameter 'value, so instead of of field/text, 
check/data, text-list/picked/1 you can just use value. kind of get-accessor
  field record/name [ record/name: value ]
  field record/address [ record/address: value ]
  check record/iwantit [ record/iwantit: value ]
  button "send" [ send [me-:-here] mold record ]

we need Unicode. It is already one year ago or more, when Carl told 
me, that RT received more requests for Unicode support and that it 
is relatively high on their to-do list. But who knows what does "high" 
mean here :-)

does text-list supports multi-column?

A puzzle this brings up; where is the 'value referred to by this 
function
>> layout [text-list with [print mold :update]]
func [/local item value][
    sld/redrag lc / max 1 length? data
    if item: find data picked/1 [
        sld/data: min 1 (index? item) / (max 1 lc)
        sn: max 0 to-integer sld/data * ((1 + length? data) - lc)
    ] [
        sld/value: 0.0    ; <----------- ?
        pane/offset: 0x0
    ]
    self
]
>> layout [scroller with [?? value]]
** Script Error: value has no value
** Where: ??
** Near: mold name: get name

ah, also, you're comparing text-list and scroller. mmm.

Yes, If you examine
 write clipboard:// mold svv/vid-styles/text-list

then you cannot see any reference to "value:"  (ie. the text-list's 
scroller is not extended with the 'value facet either).

I agree. So maybe the text-list/update function is not used much 
any more ?

layout [t: text-list]
t/update   ; <--- what is strange is this doesn't cause any error
t/sld/value
;** Script Error: Invalid path value: value
;** Near: t/sld/value

I've made a quick list of the VID-styles found in REBOL/View 1.3. 
Some are explained with a definition, some by an image showing the 
style in use. The list can be found here:
http://home.tiscali.dk/john.niclasen/

Anton, I was producing the quick list of VID-styles found on my homepage 
and needed some images to go with it. I saw the bug, when I was making 
the image to show slider functionality.

Ok, thanks, I added to todo list to check that out.

I'll stick it in the ToDo list. :)

view center-face layout [
	size 600x400
	list-face: face with [
		size: 500x300
		color: 170.165.160
		init: []
		data: ["hello" "there" "Robert"]
		spacing: 1x1
		ioffset: 0x0
		subface: make face [size: 100x24 effect: [merge luma 20]]
		pane: func [face id /local index][
			if pair? id [

    return 1 + first id - ioffset / any [all [subface subface/size + 
    spacing] 1] ; convert offset to row number
			]
			; id is subface ("row") number (an integer)

   ; update subface to the correct offset, call subfunc for each pane 
   of subface
			if subface [

    subface/offset: subface/old-offset: id - 1 * (subface/size + spacing) 
    * 1x0 + ioffset ; spread horiontally into columns

				if subface/offset/x > size/x [return none]


    if subface/show?: all [data id <= length? data][ ; <- this will need 
    to be improved when scrolling added

					index: 0
					if object? subface [
						subfunc subface id index: index + 1
					]

					subface ; return subface so it is shown by the view engine
				]
			]
		]

  subfunc: func [face [object!] id [integer!] "row" index [integer!] 
  "column" /local val][
			;face/text: ""
			;face/data: none
			if all [
				data 
				val: data/:id ; "row"
			][
				face/text: val ; "column"
			]
		]
	]
	btn "change data" [
		list-face/data: random list-face/data
		show list-face
	]
	btn "change x offsets" [
		list-face/spacing: random 40x0
		show list-face
	]
]

Not sure i understand. but another try:  the list uses the first 
face returned, even if you return another one later. "tmp-face: calendar-week-faces/(face/month)" 
if this returns different faces, the first face would be reused forever. 
if thats the "The problem is, that the text drawn first is still 
there.", yes, it would be.

Hello y'all. Does anyone know how to correct the following? I have 
a "list" of toggle buttons in four columns. When I select one of 
them, any time I move my mouse, it will continue to select any button 
in the same column that the mouse pointer passes over. The same thing 
happens with text buttons.

my-list: list 247x300 [
        across space 1x0 origin 0x0
        style cell toggle 60x20 blue mint + 25 center middle [
       
       
        	either found? find selectedtimes face/text [

          remove at selectedtimes index? find selectedtimes face/text head 
          selectedtimes 
        	]
        	[append selectedtimes copy face/text ]
	
        ]
        
        
        c-1: cell cell cell cell
           ] supply [
	        count: count + ml-cnt
	        item: pick data count
	        face/text: either item [pick item index][none]
    	]
    	sld: scroller 16x300 [ 

        if ml-cnt <> (val: to-integer value * subtract length? data visible-rows) 
        [
            ml-cnt: val
            show my-list
        	]
        ]

faces with state do not work with list. because all the displayed 
faces are the same face internally, and share that state. if you 
change state of one, say toggling, all toggles have that state.

Remember they are all one face, a face which is changing its position 
rapidly.
Now look at the cell face's feel:
	layout [toggle with [?? feel]]

In this code, if you see facets which are modified then those need 
to be stored and restored by the SUPPLY code. (ie. just like the 
list data goes to face/text.)
But wait, let me look for an iterated checkbox example.

do http://www.lexicon.net/antonr/rebol/gui/iterated/list-of-checks.r

Didier's delete-email.r has a text list that seems to work. I'll 
have to check to see what he is doing differently.

do http://www.lexicon.net/antonr/rebol/gui/iterated/list-of-toggles.r

James, cool. Hope it helped. Just uploaded improved version in which 
the list is more self-contained (not so many external variables lying 
around).

(essentially the same.) More fiddling involved with a list of buttons, 
though. The button style feel must be modified to save the state 
when it changes in engage, such as when the mouse drags off the button 
(and then perhaps back on again.)...

well, if that's all you do, you don't even have to convert it to 
a datatype, IMHO. it's enough to collect a list of rebol's datatypes 
as words, so they be used to trigger on the input word which looks 
like a datatype. I can see you are going for correctness, i.e. wanting 
the input to be a real datatype, but if you only use that input as 
a trigger to do something, you don't need to convert it to a real 
datatype. just operate using words.

>> parse/all {2008-10-30|"This is" NOK|http://www.example.com}"|"
== ["2008-10-30" "This is" " NOK" "http://www.example.com"]

I caught this on the mailing list. Bug?

Oh, that was your suggestion? I thought it was Henrik. It's on the 
list, and thanks for the link :)

Right now the Parse Proposals doc is for dialect enhancements. I 
am keeping a list of improvements out of that scope that will get 
worked on as well. Don't worry...

Strangely enough I wasn't talking about code I had posted that you 
might have used. In the early days before REBOL.org, I tended to 
post code to the mailing list. The code that you would have used 
would have been in REBOL itself - I used to give very detailed messages 
to feedback about mezzanine bugs, usually with rewrites. Many of 
those rewrites made it into REBOL, especially in the 2.5 version. 
Some natives too (to-local-file and to-rebol-file were based on REBOL 
code I wrote and posted).

In Rebol2, it is a small problem to find all the datatypes, but in 
Rebol3 the complete list of all the datatypes is already supplied.

Reflecting on words -- where does 'and come from?  Reads a little 
awkwardly:

	cmd: [list [everything]]
	parse cmd ['list and block! into ['everything | 'something]]

'at might be more apt?

	parse cmd ['list at block! into ['everything]]
	parse cmd ['list not at [paren! | hash!] into ['everything]]

I'm here again ! 

Is possible to write a rule that match any word! but those that are 
in a block ?
example:

list: ['for 'while 'show]
parse block [any [word! *NOT IN* list]]

If there's no a direct approach, is there a workaround ?

Davide.. in R2:
list: ['for | 'while | 'show]
parse [for each while end] [any [list | set w word! (probe w)]]
In R3 it should be better I think.

In theory, the best proposals (I have a list in my head) will be 
able to be compiled to R2 parse rules. Tested theory :)

remark is the basis for my proposal.   I can already to what I propose 
in parse v2... but I beleive it could be done so simply and could 
reduce your first example (the recursive file list) to a 5 line affair.

I had to clean up a few REBOL 2 assumptions in the proposals list, 
mostly by Peta, through no fault of their own :(

basically similar problem that last time as I see now.. so by looking 
at that mailing list answers I have 2 solutions ... I use parse 3 
times on a string.. or maybe I use Ladislav's parseen which he said 
solves this.. but I don't yet know how :)

I'll try to explain complement.  I like to think of a charset being 
a list of valid chars that can be tested for.  However, say you need 
all characters of the alphabet minus a few.  Instead of defining 
multiple ranges of characters as in charset "A-FH-K N-T V-Wa-z0-9" 
which effectively skips the chars G L & U, you could simply state 
complement[GLU], which would exclude these three characters from 
the charset but include all others.

you can't guess, you need the list of all clans :)

If you can't prevent them to insert blank lines in the content, then 
the Maxim's solution should be used isntead.
With a list of authorized headers.

If you know the names of all the domains in your network, you can 
treat them as keywords. Just add "BUILTIN" and "NT AUTHORITY" to 
the list of keywords and you are set. No need to deal with character 
sets.

Ah, but the list of domain names in your network is a fixed list. 
You can use that list to generate the look-for-a-domain rule.

That's why I put STAY so low on the priority list. Maxim, you are 
still confusing STAY and AND.

Brian, if a special command allow to return the stack [a list of 
positionned blocks], it's not really difficult to perform the continuation, 
i don't need for a special mode to do that.

BrianH: has Carl noticed n BREAK? It is not in priority list, and 
it could escape Carl's radar, no?

I added it to the priority list too ....

If you are parsing a string skip only advances one character at a 
time. When I wrote make-word-list for rebol.org using a complemented 
charset gave a big performance improvement.


Though you may be able to suggest better ways to optimise it - http://www.rebol.org/view-script.r?script=make-word-list.r

Peter, Steeve, the original problem that started the parse proposals 
was the problem of complimenting charsets. However, it quickly changed 
to improving PARSE in general. Then, while we were waiting for the 
parse proposals to come up on the todo list, we came up with a better 
solution to complimenting charsets, which is not yet implemented 
and which is not limited to PARSE.

Do we have a list of PARSE changes that are no longer compatible 
with R2? I think that would be important in porting parse scripts 
from R2 to R3.

It's on my list...

Just to complete the list of possible equivalents to the

    C: [to [A | B]]

rule, here is a way how to do it in Rebol3 parse:

    C: [while [and [A | B] break | skip | reject]]


you can find other equivalent idioms at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/REBOL_Programming/Language_Features/Parse#Parse_idioms

I've created my very first script. The script loops through a list 
of email (Kerio) log files, extracts the IP addresses, compiles them 
in a list and adds them to a (Peerblock) list in order to limit incoming 
spam. I find rebol perfect for this.

I am afraid, that you need to list all types excluding none

Also, every new R3 operation should have an R2 equivalent in the 
pattern list. The parse proposals page can be mined for examples.

hmm.. ive tried to use this rebgui stuff for the 1st time for a real 
problem, but it look buggy. a table cant be focused by tab (in spite 
of append ctx-rebgui/edit/tabbed 'table), a row in a table cant b 
focused by the program in an obvious way. the dropdown list doesnt 
rolls up after dropping down and it doesnt drops down if i click 
on its text.

Added an attempt 

lst: text-list 100x50 data [(read-dir path)] [
				attempt [

    path: dirize clean-path join path pick face/data first face/picked
				show-text txt to-local-file path
				insert clear face/data read-dir path
				face/redraw
			]
			]

by 51, I mean that the drop list does not display below the boundary 
of a group box

shadwolf - is your list-view widget (v0.52) ready for me to merge 
into 0.3.8 or should I wait until it's 100%?

Is the drop down list of a fixed size?  Can that be made proportional 
to the bounding functional group or window?

Drop-list height is currently set to "min 5 length? items" lines. 
This should probably by extended to include the bounding face and 
the 5 should probably be designer configurable.

Agreed! Any other clashes / issues apart from request-* just list 
them here.

Carl's idea, that e.g. 'list style has to allow borderless design 
is pretty right. Go and look at MS - they WILL come to our living 
rooms with some devices, and you would not want your OS to pop-up 
- but apps will be important. Well, I speak of a different target 
market, but ...

shadwolf
	tabpanel with scrollable header - being added to 0.3.8
	menu - see note below
	listview - being added to 0.3.8

 treeview – data structure should be simple & consistent with other 
 widgets ... sub-blocks are the obvious way to go but I'll leave the 
 implementation choices to you ;)

Menu Widget


I am of the opinion that a menu widget is more trouble that it is 
worth as:


1) Its use is being discouraged in modern UI design (toolbars have 
made them obsolete to a great extent) - they feel just so Win95 these 
days

2) Mac OS X does not use them at all (at least at the application 
window level)

3) A fully-fledged menu widget is practically a UI in its own right 
with menu entries having icons, toggles, key shortcuts and various 
other mini widgets

4) The underlying REBOL popup system needs fixing first (this also 
impacts the edit-list, drop-list and context-menu widgets)

5) It's just too complex to meet the definition of a simple RebGUI 
building block widget - our time is better spent on other widgets 
that are required

6) How many users clamour for menus these days? Most folks I've met 
prefer pressing a single button / icon and positively detest multi-level 
menu selection

All my opinion, so feel free to disagree.

hmm, my last message got lost probably. I sent it, and then I got 
AltME blue-screen instead of message list for this group, and nothing 
appeared. Kind of short disconnection? :-)

tab-panel: will investigate
min-size: from the display users guide:

2.1.2 Min-Size

Specify a minimum OS window resize size.

display/min-size "Example" [
    tight
    text 80 blue "Some text" #W
    return
    box 80x40 #WH
] 400x400

Note


The min-size limit will only be enforced upon a window resize, and 
the size is inclusive of an OS specific number of border / title 
pixels. Also note that if any widgets are resizeable (#H and #W) 
and min-size has not been specified then RebGUI will assign a default 
value equal to the initial window size.


table: Already noted by Graham (arrow does not share label feel) 
- will add to list

the latter point has been noted in the problems list

- still - pop-up system non system friendly (not Rebgui issue, but 
rebol one's)

- I have some difficulcy with leds - If you would not provide me 
with text help, I would very hardly know, what those state means 
- I am not sure such style has place in standard pack ... or just 
- let it transparent for 'not-selected selection, green for 'on selection, 
red for 'off selection ...

- table - still you are able to scroll hilited row "under" the table 
style border - it should know it is at last displayed element and 
start scrolling, scrollers should reflect that. If there is no internal 
track of hilited row/cell, then it is not true grid system (I hope 
not)

- bug with text-list multi selection - there seem to be bug in math 
... press shift, hold it, hilite e.g. 6 rows. Still hold it, press 
some two rows below, it let's hilited only first two rows ...

It's high on my list, hope to have a reworked solution by Xmas or 
new years day.