AltME groups: search

The AltMEPeeves (or bug) list now identifies the top ten list .


If you can think of any just cause or impediment to the list, type 
now or forever hold your peace.

At the moment it is at number 22 in the list of wishes ...so it doesn't 
reach my top ten.

At the moment, there are 13 peeves (bugs) and 73 wishes......it seems 
the list of peeves is just about agreed ...I've pushed "display of 
html links is a mess" into the top 5 Oldes....

So..............it the final bug and feature list pretty much in 
agreement?

I've added it to the list (at the top).

Proxy settings has a low priority in the AltME wishes list, mainly 
because it hasn't been important enough to anyone to add a brief 
description of what is wanted.

I don't think we should have proxy settings on the list.

Graham, that's no reason for it not to be on the list. AltME might 
tackle this common user problem by linking to some documentation 
which explains the situation, problems and possibly automatically 
forwards a feature request for you to RT feedback.

denismx: I have added "Launch  World on Start-up" to the AltME Wish 
List in the Checklists here. Please could you add a brief description.

So I'll take this out of the wish list, PeterWood. Tks anyway.

I remember vaguely that when I had tried starting a world with the 
-s paramater, Alteme was not picking up the worlds user list, like 
it was not started in the correct directory. Anyway. I'm glad to 
have this solution now. So I'm preparing to setup my linux server 
to come up with X and altme running on my world after a boot up.

Funny how this:

"When you guys have your Top 10, - AND - you all 
agree to the list, then we will attack it : )"

"Reichart promised 
to fix the top 10 annoyances in AltME if we could all agree. We came 
up with list - here's hoping!"

Funny how this:

"When you guys have your Top 10, - AND - you all 
agree to the list, then we will attack it : )"

Becomes this

"Reichart promised to fix the top 10 annoyances in 
AltME if we could all agree. We came up with list - here's hoping!"

Maybe we should create a new wish list after the Altme team completes 
our first top 10 wish list ??

OK, what I ment is control over size the a / A was ment to be "pictorial"
I put this on the list.

<< Any rules about who can post into what groups?>>

If you can see a group in the groups list, then you can post into 
it. If your posts are not appearing then either:

* it has been lost -- if you have a flakey connection, Altme will 
try to upload the message from your machine and if it discovers it 
needs to reconnect, it will do so automatically and then THROW YOUR 
MESSAGE AWAY. All you see is the "reconnecting" message. You are 
not told your message has been discarded.

* it has been recieved, but is not rebroadcast to everyone. Some 
people see it withing seconds, some do not unless they later post 
inot the same group This is the resync problem refered to above.

Can you help, please?

I'm trying to establish if we all have the same Altme Group number 
for the same Altme Groups.


If we do, then an app I want to build using merged data from several 
Altme users will be very easy.

If we don't, then I must salute Altme's excellent security measure 
in making the group number local to each user. But I have to do so 
while walking back to the drawingboard to redesign the application.

So, please: could a few people right-click !Atme in the Groups list 
and tell me what #nnn they see to the right of the Group Name?
Thanks!
I see #151

It updates based on the list from the client.  You can install on 
multiple computers using the same account and it will download all 
the messages to ensure your clients are up to date.

For the time being I can switch the text fonts from "much too small" 
to "still too small", while the groups list stays on "barely readable".

sorry... already found it:

To change your password, just right click on your name in the user 
list. Enter your new password, then confirm your password by entering 
it again in the popup. Your password will be changed.

A summary of a message I tried to post to the Mailing List, but the 
ML is a little wonky just now:

ALTME ARCHIVE SEARCH

You may remember that some months ago we added the archives of some 
Altme worlds to REBOL.org...
http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/aga-index.r
...and said that a search feature was coming soon.

It did not come soon enough but it is there now:
http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/aga-search.r

Enjoy using it, and please tell me the bugs you find.

I want to have W2K automatically start my worlds.  Can anyone tell 
me how to do this? (please list all steps if possible. Assume I am 
an idiot, because I am)

hmm... my code snippet check list is empty. did something happen?

There is no simple, obvious, method of joining this world....

....If you discover it via the REBOL.net archive, there is no info 
at all about joining
http://www.rebol.net/altweb/rebol3/


....If you find it via the REBOL.org archive, there is a note in 
the Help page about requesting membership via the Mailing List.....So 
first, you got to join the ML and it has to be working that day :-(

Let's come up with something better guys!


My opening suggestion.....membership can be requested by sending 
an email to a specific gmail account that the Admins here monitor.

Given the trouble with the Mailing list as well (feedback), what 
about simply moving everything over to Gmail Groups?  All these problems 
have been solved by them already.  It has IMAP access, so you can 
still do ML archives.  And it is all free.  There are a few things 
about Gmail Groups I don't like (but I suspect all ML have the same 
problems), I simply don't like Email in the first place, so I'm biased.

I think a big move to Gmail would have many positive aspects:


-	Feedback problem is gone, since you can have multiple moderators 
that can check.
-	We have a centralized location for requests to AltME

-	We can make it public already, so you may be able to avoid some 
of the tools you have been using to do this.

-	We are working "with" other systems, as opposed to "invented here"

-	There are other services Gmail offers that might enhance the experience.

I propose: checklists to appear in the same list as users and groups. 
Then they can be sorted by most recently modified, turn red and be 
noticed.  *Then* the "Links" group could become a checklist, avoiding 
chat.

or


The "Links" group could be automatically scraped and the links put 
into a "Links" checklist.

it would be nice to see a list of files that you are about to download 
in the file sharing module. there's nothing useful about seeing dialogs 
with "There are 5 files to download.".

Just thinking about the ALTME left side list pane.  I think instead 
of clicking each item such as "M" "Users" and "Status" that there 
should just be one button the top left that you can click and rotary 
thru the list screens.  The caption above the list pane tells you 
already which pane your viewing.  This allows you to add other options 
on the top of the list columns.  Just makes it more concise and user 
friendly in my opinion.

As you can see, I was having trouble as this new install populated 
lists: any time that I hit the enter key the post vanished but the 
list would not refresh by just going to another topic and returning 
to this altme topic.  Hence the 3 stutters in trying to report what 
may be a known issue as I was not sure if my post was in limbo or 
lost in the ethereal bit bucket

I think the answer to shortcuts is that it should NOT be part of 
the application, but rather the OS.  That the App should offer a 
"suggestion" list to the App/

Repeat of a post I made here almost a year ago.....And it is still 
not obvious how a newcomer joins this world. It's a huge blindspot 
in the otherwise welcoming REBOL community:

There is no simple, obvious, method of joining this world....

....If you discover it via the REBOL.net archive, there is no info 
at all about joining
http://www.rebol.net/altweb/rebol3/


....If you find it via the REBOL.org archive, there is a note in 
the Help page about requesting membership via the Mailing List.....So 
first, you got to join the ML and it has to be working that day :-(

Let's come up with something better guys!


My opening suggestion.....membership can be requested by sending 
an email to a specific gmail account that the Admins here monitor.

Graham used to be near the top in the mailing list too!

It was intended to be a single place that would simply list all known 
REBOL resources.

Reichart, if someone puts REBOL and Central into Google - your blasphemous 
site  comes up second in the  list.  Your hurting the spread of REBOL.

There is always the mailing list ...

ALtme wish list...

I would like to have the abilty to batch update all files in a folder. 
I'm sitting here clicking on each one at a time...

Also, an ability to import a folder with contained files. It seems 
you have to create a folder manually,,I had to creat about fifty 
folders the other day...

Here's another wish list item.   I am had a family only list going. 
 People would forget to login and check what was updated on occassion, 
and during slow periods with little entry, would miss that one or 
two days where something was added.  So, a nag feature that can be 
turned on and off by both the user and administrator.  It would send 
an email from the World server telling the person updates were posted 
to the World.

You can at least start looking from the top of the list if you know 
they've been around a long time or the bottom if they're new :-)

It wouldn't hurt if some other the very long list of people who haven't 
logged in for over a year had their accounts deleted.

so how people in IRC know what are the channel on the server and 
what are they talking about in you client you type /list and you 
get the list of all the channel and their topic (title) and the amount 
of people you have in it

of course you can limit list output to participation quotas for example 
or to word contained in the topic

channels are virtual list of ppl in memory

you open a channel you create an object in memory that knows what 
client have enter every time some one join you channel it enter into 
the memory list

when you type a message it is forwarded to all the people in you 
channel list and nothing more

it melts your computer and spams alll the people in your contact 
list  ;-)

That's a similar feature as the newsgroup readers. Along those same 
lines, AltMe could just download the file list with comments instead 
of the files themselves.

As far as i can tell, the files stored under the world name show 
only when a user joined and when they last posted.

Clearly, AltME is sending connection information -- we can all see 
that if we sort the Users list by Status. But is there an API to 
access that? There may be an answer available here :-)
http://www.altme.com/feedback.html

If the code is being kept mostly private perhaps at some stage it 
will be developed further as a comercial product, in which case it 
would seem usefull if we as test users record a list of bugs & useability 
suggestions in a structured way perhaps?

[third repost]: There's a good list of bugs and suggestions starting 
here:
http://www.rebol.org/aga-display-posts.r?post=r3wp151x457

Do you think it would make sense to implement few AltME enhancements, 
which would not alter its messaging layer, but could help to make 
our lifes easier? Some few months ago I contacted Carl, and he was 
willing to post particular code sections for related areas. I read 
also some 2005 list, and picking from (apparently easy to fix) bugs/enhancements:

- DeRED - mark everything read
- fix URL display bug
- fix proxy
- fix msg loss during reconnect .... (might be more complex)


I just don't know, if it is good to bother Carl with those issues 
right now, when R3 is heading towards beta and we need to concentrate 
on it ...

in any case the server its hosted on, should just scan the process 
list and restart it automatically when it falls...  maybe its a network 
issue... which makes the service unreachable.

to me the problem is that MS should have created a real application 
framework... actually, only Apple with OSX seems to be really close 
to this.


there should be THREE root directories and only three dirs for each 
application.  windows has dozens, which is crazy.
1. Application SOURCE data (.exe, libs, datafile, etc)
2. Application STORAGE data (game saves, defaults
3. Application Temporary data, flushed on program quit by the OS.


within Storage, you'd have application and user-based storage and 
that's it.


The os refuses to execute any file not within application source 
dir, so you have already clamped down on a lot of security issues. 
 a list of approved .exe is stored whenever you launch an application 
for the first time.


for a bit more flexibility, several application dirs could exist, 
so that you can do stuff like compile items and run them locally 
within your dev environment, but these dirs would be explicitely 
registered within the os.


on install the Application should be required to ask permission (like 
flash) in how much space will be stored within STORAGE if it exceeds 
a max default, independently of SOURCE.


The implementation of MyXxxx folders is completely horrendous, and 
should be a simple and ubiquitous form that has one entry for each 
media type, and a browser where you want to put your stuff (which 
might not be user-specific).


IIRC this was addressed in Vista, but then they went and added aliases 
to everything, which raises errors in the explorer, cause you can't 
use them.  They alias core windows directories in other languages, 
the result being that explorer and actual disk info are different! 
 this completely fucks up many applications (like rebol).


windows has a hard time "fixing" things... they always just patch 
it... its worse since they have a hard time starting with any good 
implementation of anything to begin with.

actually, it's:  altme/prefs/debug  (no suffix, but as a text file)
Then, in that file:

events: [boot error ... above list  ]

1.2.18 works fine from where I am. Let's hope it is a good sign for 
the future.

Petr, we were asked for our top priorities some years ago....Let's 
hope too, that those requests are still on the work list:
    http://www.rebol.org/aga-display-posts.r?post=r3wp151x457

Alternatively, the message is immediately put at the bottom with 
a "sending..." notifiier which disappears when the message is sent. 
That might be problematic for message sequencing in the list, though.

Still more to do on it... the original plan from long ago was to 
put it in the list immediately, like other IMs... but indicate that 
it is pending (in date field.)

No problem Brian. there's a double-switch needed to make things [web 
public] at REBOL.org....
Step 1 is for  someone here to mark  a group [web public] 

Step 2 is for someone (usually me) at REBOl.org to flag that group 
as on the publication list

So mistakes, or over enthusiastic [web public]ings can be corrected.

I'm a lazzy guy, so I didn't take the time to put this on Rebol.org, 
but I have a script to read and display/export the local altme files.
http://membres.multimania.fr/didec/rebol/altme-chat-reader.r

Installation : the simple use is to put the script in your altme 
install folder and run it.


You can browse any group in any altme worlds configured on your system. 

You can scroll the entire list of messages in a group (scrool wheel 
enable). Messages are displayed like in altme (formating).
You can export the group in an Html file with formating kept.

Missing : doesn't diplay private chats (user chats).

Bugs : right click menu close the program after use (anoying isn't 
it ?)


There is no search function. But if you have time, you can mix this 
script with the skimp-altme-file script on rebol.org.

So did I -- 1.2.23. So recent, it's not on the recent updates list:
   http://www.altme.com/new.html

Currently my scrolling method (on mac) is to click down on the scrollbar, 
move the mouse outside the window, then release.  Moving the mouse 
up and down gives relatively good scrolling control.  Works on both 
the chat window and user list.

For me, the All Users title bar turns red and I have it at the top, 
so that's how I notice when I have private messages, even if the 
list is collapsed.

Adrian, two suggestions.  Make sure to use the WorldMasters Dividers, 
then also make sure to show Newest Messages first (as suggested by 
Henrik).  Both can be selected by clicking the wrench icon in the 
top right of the user list.  If you make a habit of minimizing all 
dividers, you will always see the dividers that have last received 
an update.

Thanks for suggestions. Have to look into that. Currently i have 
anti-colors, mostly because i box the words, not just colorize them. 
looks like suqeaks etoys :) to see it, run edit-tools in my developer-folder, 
open a script, choose color-rebol.r in the plugin-list and close 
your eyes quickly :)) more a demo how to markup text.

plis samples     set-it list ?

REBOL []
donnees: [
  ["un" 1 "rouge"]
  ["deux" 2 "vert"]
  ["trois" 3 "jaune"]
  ["quatre" 4 "bleu"]
]

view layout [ 
 list 300x200 [
    across 
    c1: text 100  [  c1/color: red ]

    c2: text 30
    c3: text 170
  ] supply [ print [ count index ]

   print [ face/font/color face/font ]



    ; SUPPLY est en fait une fonction avec 3 arguments :

    ; face=le facet, count=indice de la ligne, index=indice de la colonne

    face/text: either count > length? donnees [
      ""
    ] [
      to-string donnees/:count/:index
    ]
  ]
button "halt" [halt]]

I've been unable to to change it once displayed. But I've got a work 
around where I change the data list before it is created. that gets 
me out of trouble for now.

Allen - you may not be interested if Carl's rotary serves your needs 
but I find the FX5 rotary that Frank Sievertsen created some years 
ago to be a bit more usable because he added the left and right arrow 
navigation to the base rotary.   Clicking on the rotary itself rolls 
it forward but with the FX5 one, you have a back option instead of 
having to cycle through the list.    The rotary is still a bit cumbersome 
without key board support that is specific to the widget when it 
has focus.

Out of interest: Are the changes made to draw going to be available 
in the non-draw face effects, too? E.g. the draw fill-pen will allow 
gradients with an arbitrary number of colors to go through, but EFFECT: 
[GRADIENT ...] seems to be limited to two colors only. Not to high 
on my personal wish list though, I'm just being curious here.

plis help update sld text-list  .

parse-keywords: func [data /local k tmp ]

                     [ tmp: []


                       parse data [ any [thru "keywords=" copy k to {"} 

                                    (insert tail tmp join k " ")
 
                                    skip ]  ]

                       return tmp ]



lay: layout [  backdrop silver
               across
               h2 red 40 "url" f: field 200 []
               
               return
             
               
              space 0x0
              a:  text-list   []   [  i/text: form a/picked
                                             show i ]

              return
           
              i: info
    
              
             
              return
              pad 0x10
              space 10x10
              across 

              button "load url" [ a/data: parse-keywords read load f/text 

                                  a/sld/data: a/sn / ((length? head a/lines) - a/lc)
                                  show a]

              button "pase clibord" [ a/data: parse-keywords read clipboard:// 
              show a ]

             ; button "write" [write/append w a/text   a/text: "" show a ]



f/text: "http://cat333.com/"

button "halt" [halt]

]



view  lay

I wonder why 'list style is not based upon Carl's IOS Developer's 
version, which was said being fixed and more advanced?

You can expect list style the most difficult style for newbies to 
use

As I said - we need tree-view, grid (or little better list), tabs, 
group-box, and maybe even menu. Those missing styles will make it 
difficult to newbies to start using View as full-fledged dev-tool 
replacement ....

Great stuff Henrik, this definitly doesn't *suck* as all the list 
entries say  ;-)

Henrik good one I like it you yet input in it some simpatical capabilities 
that I was planned to add into the list view of rebgui like line 
to field editting conversion ;)

christianE: what it does is I create simply a fixed grid of textboxes 
and replace the text in them on the fly. that's much faster than 
setting offset for a very big pane. this way it doesn't matter how 
big the list is, it'll stay fast

I don't know how rebgui is built, but if my list turns out as well 
as I hope it will, I'll gladly donate the code for you to adapt it. 
I'm going to use it myself for my VID applications

right now there still are a ton of functionality improvements to 
come, and it'll be even faster than it is now. I want to implement 
dynamic column sizing, graphics in lists, drag'n'drop and proper 
handling of list actions

nice demo, Henrik - most of list style attempts miss horizontal scrolling 
though ...

shadowolf: ok... mine is still a bit backwards. I have a list object 
which contains all list functions and the raw layout for the list. 
when I want to use the list, I create a box in a layout and assign 
it to the pane of that box, voila. :-) the list adapts to the size 
of the box, so I think live resizing would work though columnsizes 
are still fixed

pekr, it's on the list, but low priority. :-) my apps currently don't 
need horizontal scrolling, but it'll get there

Pekr layout is a dialectal parser so he treat the key work (consoming 
CPU and if you have a lot of widget to renderise like into a MD view 
area or a list it's a nightmare...) and the used widgets are the 
VID default ones with lot of unneeded thing ...

a: box 300x300 ... a/pane: layout heavy-list-of complicated-widgets 
and a: box  ... insert tail  a/pane tiny-widget then show a are not 
the same

ashley's roadmap is 1) the engine and widgets list edicting 2) the 
bettering of those widgets but you have to keep in mind that some 
widgets are process consumer and you can't reasonnably expect user 
to wait 3 minutes before having on screen there datas :)

is there a list of bugs?

Anyone know what happened to all the registry functions in View 1.3?


   create-reg      native!   Creates a registry key and returns TRUE 
   on success...

   delete-reg      native!   Deletes a registry key. Returns TRUE if 
   deleted. (...

   exists-reg?     native!   Returns TRUE if registry key exists. (HKCU 
   is defa...

   get-reg         native!   Returns value of a registry key, else NONE. 
   (HKCU ...

   list-reg        native!   Returns a block of sub-keys for a registry 
   key. (H...

   set-reg         native!   Sets registry key value. Returns value 
   on success,...
   unset-reg-funcs function! []

I hope they aren't gone for good!

registry access wasn't for user REBOL/View - it's a Windows only 
/Command feature. As they are used in installation, these were exposed 
in alpha/beta builds, but "internal" funcs aren't available in official 
release...
You can note the registry access is/was incomplete: 
- only string! datatype is available, not dword

- how one lists the values under a key? 'list-reg only returns sub-keys, 
not values.

Gregg:  I asked for these in a feedback before so I assume its not 
very high on the priority list.

It is like VID list style - the worst ever - you work with exposed 
variables you don't have normally the chance to know about (from 
the VID style perspective pov) - I consider it being very bad design, 
wrong ecapsulation.

I have found very shortened example - simply the case, when you redefine 
layout several times - maybe it is wrong aproach, but because of 
grid I always called layout once again, to fill-in list value by 
data:


view lay1: center-face layout [btn "lay2" [view/new lay2: layout 
[btn "Return" [unview/only lay2]]] btn "close" [unview]]


now run above line, press lay2 button, go back to first screen, press 
lay2 button. It gets re-rendered. Try to press "Return" button on 
lay2 - it does not work anymore ...

hey guys, we have some gfx gurus. What about some splash screen content? 
Today I made small util using rebol and my friends in office were 
really happy about it - I exported telephone list from Lotus Notes 
client monster and put it into View 1.3, rebDB plus Cyphre's my-list. 
They suggested me to add some nice splash screen and to send it to 
Lotus Notes team to show them we don't need LN for such tasks :-)

look Gabriele - imagine strict object system - so - pressing button 
does its action, not something else, unless some other element is 
layered above it. So what is VID for? For whom? Typical VID user 
was compared to HTML coder, so why should user care of some dirty 
flag? What is dirty flag after all? It is VID internal, and it SHOULD 
NOT be imo exposed to user. List is another example of BAD design.

Can you provide an operational definition of what you mean by BAD 
design in respect of 'List ?

yes, simply put - list's supply block - you have to know pretty much 
about style internals in VID level - suddenly you use variables you 
have no clue about ...

when I look at Cyphre's my-list, there is nothing like that ... all 
configuration done by exposed facets ...

... after all, IIRC Carl once said that current 'list was done in 
something like 5 minutes or so beofre View alpha release :-), and 
IOS 1.3 project contained new, improved version - so I also wonder 
why that version did not make it for 1.3

Or, you could just read the documentation regarding the use of 'list

Yes, maybe documentation. But I can still see a trouble with 'list 
and if 'field is similar, than our bad. VID is abstraction. It was 
meant to ignore errors in code if possible. It was meant to configure 
style using facets ... we started to expose more facets 'edge ,'font-size, 
etc., and if not sufficient, the last part is using 'with and directly 
accessing object values. But 'list goes even further, as 'supply 
block deal with variables like 'count ...

If Cyphre is working for RT, and his list is not included in 1.3, 
presumably he knows the reasons ...