AltME groups: search

Is there an AltME preference setting for fonts? I have the same font 
issue w/altme on Linux that I described on the mailing list, but 
no convenient altme/user.r file to fiddle with

I think I'll add this list to the rebolweek blog .. top 10 list of 
Altme peeves :)

When you guys have your Top 10, - AND - you all agree to the list, 
then we will attack it : )

I have sent Graham the 2004 list, there were alot more who cared 
back then ... do we have to get them to agree as well

Where is the complete list you have ?

I wonder if our list of peeves is being considered? :)

By virtue of being foolish enough to start the checklists, I've taken 
responsibility for tidying them up in the hope that we can present 
Reichart with a useful list he will honour-bound to seriously consider.

Oldes, maybe it can be because I'm also a bit red/green color blind. 
I really have to squint to see which group is red among a long list 
of black groups.

The moment Tom posted me the lost list, I assigned someone in my 
company to help out and augment Peter's list to be complete with 
information eve from the past.

There are still a lot of entries in the altme wishes list that have 
no description......the conclusion must be that they are not really 
wanted by anybody here as nobody can be bothered to write a couple 
of sentences to explain them.

Paul:try talking to Graham as his mailing list reader only dls the 
new mail and saves to the master.Probaly a way to modify for your 
task ? Graham ?

it's not in development, but it has been on the list for ages.

pad list [","]

for a comma seperated list

What ? I'm shocked. I always thought CC was for allowing the recipients 
to see the list, and BCC was for the mail processor to split apart 
and hide. Are you sure about that being in the RFC Graham ? I would 
believe you otherwise but I'm in denial.

Seems there are two scenarios, both of them should not send the complete 
list of the BCC'd users in the mail message....
The 
Bcc:" field (where the "Bcc" means "Blind Carbon Copy") contains

   addresses of recipients of the message whose addresses are not to 
   be

   revealed to other recipients of the message.  There are three ways 
   in

   which the "Bcc:" field is used.  In the first case, when a message

   containing a "Bcc:" field is prepared to be sent, the "Bcc:" line 
   is

   removed even though all of the recipients (including those specified

   in the "Bcc:" field) are sent a copy of the message.  In the second

   case, recipients specified in the "To:" and "Cc:" lines each are 
   sent

   a copy of the message with the "Bcc:" line removed as above, but 
   the

   recipients on the "Bcc:" line get a separate copy of the message
   containing a "Bcc:" line.  (When there are multiple recipient

   addresses in the "Bcc:" field, some implementations actually send 
   a
   separate copy of the message to each recipient with a "Bcc:"
   containing only the address of that particular recipient.)"

(having this issue on a  list of 2500)

what send does is: taking a message, and sending it to the list of 
recipients you provide. That's what any MTA does too.

depends on refinements. i don't recall if it does one with a list 
of emails, or several with one email address each.

what happens to the series if you insert elements  into the list 
while you're in a forskip loop?

what position are you at  now?

it only  list all the action! values. hey you are just bluffing! 
:)

Is for building list using mutually recursive funcs.

and a list (a b c) would look like
 [a [b [c nil] ] ]

>> cons [a b c] [d e]
This is a list of test from lisp.

> (cons 'a '())
(list 'a)
> (cons '() '())
(list empty)
> (cons '() 'a)
cons: second argument must be of type <list>, given empty and 'a
> (cons '(a b c) 'a)

cons: second argument must be of type <list>, given (list 'a 'b 'c) 
and 'a
> (cons '(a b c) '(d e))
(list (list 'a 'b 'c) 'd 'e)

Maybe a set of lisp-porting-tools? In rebol itself i use more iteration 
and insert/append. No need for cons. In lisp its recursion and list-building, 
there it is helpfull.

Hi all, I'm trying to read from a newsserver, what's wrong ?

>> p: open/lines tcp://news.aioe.org:119
>> first p

== {200 aioe.org InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.4.3 (20050923 snapshot) 
ready (posting ok).}
>> insert p "LIST"
>> first p
** Script Error: Out of range or past end
** Near: first p

I'm already using nntp scheme, but it become slow because it reads 
first all message id from the group in port/locals/message-block

In large groups accessing the msgs list is very slow as you can see 
here:

http://www.ddmind.com/modules.php?name=gdp_rforum&ng=it.sport.calcio.milan
(works only in IE :-))

>> p: open/lines tcp://news.aioe.org:119
>> first p

== {200 aioe.org InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.4.3 (20050923 snapshot) 
ready (posting ok).}
>> insert p "LIST^/" ;;note the newline
>> first p
== {215 Newsgroups in form "group high low flags".}

Don't ask me why - I don't think it should need it, either...

Because I'm writing scripts on more than one computer I need to sync 
files somehow. I can use flashdisk for synchronization, but USB is 
not always available or I forget my flashdisk at home, so it's not 
always the right option.

Or I can use ftp to upload and download files. But at the end I've 
got lots of different directories with different versions, because 
I have no intelligent file structure.

I was inspired by Google filesystems for win and lin so I decided 
to use some freemail (gmail preferably) for my scripts maintaing. 
Unfortunatly, Gmail needs some authentication, SSL or what and SSL 
under Rebol needs Command and Command needs 350$ to buy.

So I found another freemail provider that offers both non-authenticated 
SMPT and POP and therefore is OK for REBOL (btw. remeber the old 
REBOL example? send [luke-:-rebol-:-com] read http://www.rebol.com? Hard 
to do with all the authetications required today.) and I started 
coding.

The result is a small application called %rspace.r that can upload 
file to repository, download newest version from repository, or you 
can get list of all files in repository and finally, if you're happy 
with your script, you can publish it on www/ftp. All this with documentation 
in less than 6kB.

All you need is REBOL and mail account cappable of SMTP/POP without 
authentication. It's good to have an FTP account for publishing files 
but that's not required. If you do not have an mail account, I've 
set up one on seznam.cz, user 'rebolspace' and pass 'spacerebol' 
for testing this application (it's built in, so you can start testing 
right after download).

Remember, it's just alpha, does not have many features, but it works, 
I can write something here, update it there and have all the versions 
accesible from everywhere. It's written for REBOL scripts so with 
big projects it's going to be very slow and unusable, but for small 
project (and most REBOL scripts are really small) it's probably good.

So download it form http://krutek.info/rebol/rspace.r(stable) or 
http://rebolspace.sweb.cz/rspace.r(latest published version). 

WARNING: because [rebolspace-:-seznam-:-cz] is open account it won't be 
wise to use it ordinarily. Please, if you like it, set up your own 
account and use it instead of built-in one.
And remember: all suggestions and fixes are welcome.

graham, the fact that it isn't there, kinda ruins my idea for implementing 
percent based widths in LIST-VIEW so that it's easy to discern between 
integers and percentages such as [50% 30%]. That's not so easy now, 
unless I do it the hokey way and use issue! or some other type to 
describe percent.

crap... oh well


anton, W is really a big object block with many nested objects. I'm 
building a list of relations, so I can relate words and numbers to 
eachother in a database

consider it a flimsy prototype. requires list-view.r to be in the 
same path as the script

Henrik - wrong link to list-view on the above reblog.html .... /reblog/ 
in the path should not be there ...

hmm... seems I forgot there are some LIST-VIEW 0.0.29 only functions 
used in Tester. maybe I should do a release soon....

a bug or a feature? ;-) view layout [tl: text-list "" "ahoj" "" "cus"] 
  ... just click on an empty element ....

not even view layout [tl: text-list do [ tl/data: reduce [copy "" 
"ahoj" copy "" "cus"] show tl] ]  works ...

Looks like a bug -- can't have a duplicate entry.....Try clicking 
on one of the "cus"s

 unview/all view layout [tl: text-list "cus" "" "ahoj" "" "cus" "cus"]

Putting duplicate values in a list is also rediculous.

why? the list should not care ....

wouldn't this be approriate  ;-)

view layout [tl: text-list do [ tl/data: unique reduce [copy "" "ahoj" 
copy "" "cus"] show tl] ]

I agree that duplicates wouldn't be normal occurance in a list.  
Maybe a multi-column list would have duplicate values in a column, 
but each additional column should have other elements to make the 
row intself unique.  Again, from a 'list' perspective.

thanks a lot, Brock, that cures list-text pain :-)

imo text-list is totally screwed implementation, I wonder noone else 
found this out yet?

values for highlighting is much quicker coding than translating to 
indexes. ANd for the other stuff, a selfmade list is not that much 
code. although complicated.

yes, list somehow scares novices :-)

I'd love to get LIST-VIEW into /view, if the quality can get high 
enough.

TEXT-LIST definitely has issues, but works well in many simple cases. 
I think we'd all love to have LIST-VIEW in there, though I have to 
spend some time with it to make suggestions, so it's good fit with 
other VID styles (client side, in VID). I think that's what has kept 
changes out of VID in general.

Anton, your function history sounds like a great idea, although I 
would add parse behaviors to that list.

ok ... so what happens if there is still data on first port in the 
wait-list? will it always return that one? So it means that other 
ports will simply wait for maintanance, because first port in the 
wait-list is still receiving a data?

Just what I think is a little bit annyoing, that sometimes you do 
not get the proper timeout, if you have a timeout value in your wait 
list  and many events.

Yes, I always thought that I got the ports ordered according their 
event time and not according their position in the event list.

or, to use random to pick ports randomly :-) .... but it is interesting 
that 'wait returns events according to wait-list order ....

but I mean, I don't want to have to reduce, I want to insert the 
actual values of the words into the list, not the word itself

eFishAnt, a wild guess: what about rebooting the OS after you've 
made the link to ttyc0? Maybe some internal list of devices is made, 
when the OS boots?

seems like an empty block should only take 2 bytes...but then that 
is just the ASCII representation...binaries are bigger than their 
source code...I would expect some list links pointing, some datatype 
info...dunno.  Maybe try a small program like REBOL[] probe empty: 
[] and inspect the RAM of it.

Well, the links in the list! type are overhead, and the chunks of 
memory taken up by list nodes are smaller than those taken up by 
blocks, leading to greater memory fragmentation. REBOL doesn't have 
a compacting collector.

On the other hand, list nodes are allocated one at a time rather 
than in groups, so if you have a lot of small lists they may take 
less ram than a lot of small blocks. I don't know how many cells 
are allocated when the runtime (re)allocates a block - I think it 
is powers of two up to multiples of 128.

A list may be twice as big, but if you want memory predictability 
you can't beat it because the allocation quanta is 1 node and the 
insert/delete is O(1). Indexing and length calculations are O(n) 
though.

The Logo interpreter I did (early in REBOL for me) allowed user defined 
functions; basically it just added things to the list of parse rules 
it knew about, naive, but semi-functional. :-)

Example:
context A [a: 1 b: 2 c:3 list-words: none]
context storage [list-words: does [probe first self]]

How can I execute storage/list-words in the context of A? So that 
I get back [a b c list-words]

Oh sorry, you specifically want to bind a function's body to the 
context.
Let's see, I think this will work:
	bind second get in storage 'list-words A
	storage/list-words

>> A: context [a: 1 b: 2 c: 3]
>> storage: context [list-words: does [probe first self]]
>> storage/list-words
[self list-words]
== [self list-words]
>> bind second get in storage 'list-words A
== [probe first self]
>> storage/list-words
[self a b c]
== [self a b c]

read as: "bind the body of list-words to A"

A disgruntled recepient spammed the entire BCC list indicating our 
company didn't care or respect their privacy... just my luck.. .this 
was the first attempt to use Rebol for a valuable task at this job!! 
:-(

what send does (and should do!) is sending the specified message 
to the specified list of addresses. send does *not* collect the addresses 
from the mail header.

so what you need to do now to send a message is - just send/header 
[list of addresses] msg header, with header being composed correctly 
- to should have what you want your recipients to see in to, from 
should have what you want your recipients to see in from, and so 
on; there should *not* be any bcc lines.

IMHO that are to much internals. I would add bcc to send. First, 
if you use bcc, its almost 100% a privacy issue. So at least no bcc. 
Second, users read "email", they know email and email has bcc. What 
happens inside the mail-client they have no clue. So bcc should also 
be added to the header-list IMHO. At least as option, send/bcc or 
such. Should not be much parsing and things works a lot more right. 
As this discussion proves.

header-list -> recipient-list

doesn't make sense - it should parse to: too in that case, and the 
address list would just be discarded?

What is the best way to distingisch text/binary files? list of suffixes 
for "is text, everything else binary", "is binary, evwerything else 
text"? Other ideas?

- Read a part of the file. If every byte is ASCII (or 8-bit), it's 
text, else it's binary. This is only a good guess, of course!

- Many types of files have some header information right at the start 
of the file. Make a list of those headers. (I think, this is the 
way, many datatypes works in Amiga OS.)

and then you collect with a function the list of tags that you've 
created and then in a function you go and define dynamically all 
those tags as variables i.e. title: func-title "xyz" ...

Ladislav, thank your help. I wanted to ask you about this via the 
mailing list and I did send the message earlier this morning but 
the mailing list is down. Please bear with me and I will provide 
the details. I think the solution you provided is exactly what I 
was looking for but I might be missing some detail. I am studying 
your code right now and will be more specific in a few minutes

is there a complete list of all the error codes anywhere? I think 
the error appendix in the Core manual is not adequately describing 
them.

- It looks like you can derive the complete list of error codes from 
system/error,  eg: from
	print mold system/error/math
  you can see that  square-root  -1   gives error code 402

- what kind of descriptions do you see as lacking from the Core manual 
section on error codes ?
- I think whole books have been written on errors.

I used  "fstat -p 9999" to list all the files currently open by Rebol 
- 9999 being the first PID of the Rebol instance

I've been using the following approach for using a series like a 
stack, and I was wondering if there was a better way I'd missed:

	insert my-list item ;; "pop"
	item: my-list/first ;; "push" part 1
	remove/part my-list 1 ;; "push" part 2


I know it's working on the beginning of the series rather than the 
end, but I had trouble remembering if there is a '"pop" (remove  
last item from series and return item to caller) sort of function 
for Rebol.

anyway, don't you mean this:
	item: first my-list  ; pop part 1
	remove my-list  ; pop part 2

I'd been using 'x: my-list/1'

Using a path like that is not safe if you want to pop a function. 
It will call the function. To avoid that use either FIRST or PICK 
my-list 1

Syllable is now also listed in the distributions list of LWN:

We've topped out at position 57 in the above DistroWatch month list

Also, bug: "cd ~/ntfs_partition_mounted/<TAB><TAB>" displays Cyrillic 
letters of file names OK (as a list), but "ls <the same folder>" 
gives ????????? instead of cyrillic letters.

Fixed!!! See the patch on a developer mailing list.

Nobody is using the mailing list anymore, but I'll get your patch 
from there

They're quite alike and their development state is also quite alike. 
I can't really list all the details, as I only test Haiku once every 
few years or so, when they make a new alpha release

As for the hash (or assoc) index and list data combo, it has some 
advantages. When you are inserting and removing data a lot lists 
have a known speed benefit but the real advantage as far as indexes 
are concerned is in how lists handle series offsets (I'm using the 
word offset here because I'm using the word index to refer to the 
external hash/assoc index).


Blocks encode their offsets as a number offset from the beginning 
of the series:

>> a: [a b c]
== [a b c]
>> b: skip a 2
== [c]
>> index? b
== 3
>> insert next a 'd
== [b c]
>> b
== [b c]
>> index? b
== 3

List offsets are pointers to the associated list element.

>> a: make list! [a b c]
== make list! [a b c]
>> b: skip a 2
== make list! [c]
>> index? b
== 3
>> insert next a 'd
== make list! [b c]
>> b
== make list! [c]
>> index? b
== 4


If you are indexing your data and your data in in a block, you need 
to update your index with almost every insertion and removal because 
the references to latter positions of the block in the index will 
be invalid. With list insertion and removal, external references 
are likely to still be valid unless the referenced elements themselves 
are deleted. If you are sure to delete the reference from the index 
(or replace it with nones) the rest of the index should be OK. New 
index references can just be tacked on the end, or put into the first 
empty entry. This makes live indexes a lot more practical.


On the down side, if you are using lists and they are long enough 
to make linear searches impractical, you really do need an external 
index for them to be useful. Also you need to balance the overhead 
and complexity of keeping the indexes updated against their benefit. 
This technique is not for the faint of heart unless you can get some 
guru to do algorithms for you.

Are we storing these functions in altme, or the mailing list, or 
some other more accessible archive?

REBOL has saved me from doom quite a few times. Last time was yesterday 
when I lost a database of people signed up to a town party race (a 
system written in REBOL), when the power cord to all the PCs was 
pulled. The database was partially wrecked, but (believe it or not) 
by creating a LIST-VIEW and querying the database, it was possible 
to view and print out the contents. REBOL is so damn wonderful, it's 
almost hard to believe.

guys - just please bring us good list-view base for R3. I mean - 
engine - not complete system. Yesterday e.g. I could not use Rebol, 
as user wanted simple scrollable table of raw data - many columns 
(h-scroll missing badly) - just an example how one small corner could 
be limiting sometimes ...

pekr, I may have a closer look at horizonal scrolling soon, because 
I need list-view now for tables with 30-40 columns

I strongly doubt that RT would be wasting time. It's just that there 
is so much to do and R3 is one component in a large amount of software. 
Had this been some single-purpose program (like LIST-VIEW), we would 
see more rapid fire releases. :-)

Re argument-oder: To me big inline block comes last, vars first. 
Else the standard, the important thing first. With conjoin i am unsure, 
it looks to me as if it rarely has inline-data. If i pad things together, 
i usually have a list, 
  conjoin list-of-things  ","

Its not like 'reduce or 'rejoin, where i mix inline-data with variables, 
which can span some codelines.
If i am wrongand its used like
  cojoin "," ["I" "who writes this" "has more to think about it"]
i am with Anton, small thing first.

conjoin inserts delemiters too, did i get that right? How about a 
simple 'list, i feel its a good match, listing things. But not native 
speaker.. Another idea: it icould be related to csv (this spreadsheet-format, 
got i the letters right), a conjoin is close to exporting?

we have already list-dir, so list is a good match imo ...

long thread on that subject on the ATM (amature telescope maker) 
list, to put   fans in front of or behind the mirror

It's on REBOl.org. I finally decided to publish it (it's old) when 
I published my file-list script, which uses it.

(apply * (map + item-order-list  item-price-list)) for example (apply 
* (map + '(1 2 4) '(100 50 25)))  ;== 300

That is my one line scheme code for totalizing an order.

Ladislav, another to add to the For list:

- Lets programmers used to imperative programming code using algorithms 
they already know, rather than having to adopt a functional style.

That may be one for the Against list as well, depending on your attitude 
towards such things.

The speed of datatypes comes from the fixed action list. It allows 
the dispatch to be a simple retrieval from a fixed offset into a 
function table, no lookup required. It is not the same thing as general 
class-based methods, which in a language with dynamically typed variables 
would need to do a lookup to figure out where to find the method 
to call, same as with instance-based methods.