AltME groups: search

I've only tested this on windows .. will have to see what core does 
on linux

Could someone update RAMBO ticket 3455 with info that Linux (at least 
Debian) supports a

sensible-browser

command.

same happens under Linux

btiffin - only if group takes some sensible name :-) all those RUGs 
etc. remind me of linux or amiga groups, noone can depict the acronym 
and it sounds ugly, actually nothing I would like to wear on my T-shirt 
:-)

I get the DocKimbel behaviour with 2.7.5.4.2 Linux.  But I see the 
point.  Something

weird in query...or make port!  on files disguised as dir specs...

linux version

+1  
1.3.2.4.2 and 2.7.5.4.2
Linux

How about this on your end...just trying to reduce the code for the 
RAMBO report.


foreach a to block! {'word} [print get a]  - this segfaults on Linux. 
too.

2.6.2 and 2.7.5, Windows and Linux (probably others too) : Encmd 
crashes if 'title keyword is used in 'encap header. It works correctly 
with enpro and enface.

Server and Desktop are as similar as possible, enabled by my build 
system and the fact that Syllable Desktop was already POSIX compatible. 
But the lower layers of Server are Linux: the kernel and support 
software around it

We are porting the userspace of Desktop to Linux. My build system 
and package management are already there, including ORCA. We are 
working on porting Syllable's graphics system and desktop environment. 
It will not be based on X11

The Linux gives us stability right now, drivers and applications. 
One of those is REBOL/Core, which is included in Syllable Server

There were a few ancient Linux distros using it, but we will bring 
it to the desktop/server again

Syllable Desktop doesn't have a text-only mode. It's really a desktop 
system, and Linux is really a server system

Other considerations include that systems such as Amazon EC2 run 
on Linux, not our own kernel

Linux's year on the desktop http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=260&tag=nl.e590

By the way, OLPC is now working with Microsoft to get Windows XP 
on their laptop, and they're so pleased with it because it is so 
much faster than they could get their Red Hat Linux to work in several 
years of development

Of course, the memory needs to be doubled to get XP on it in the 
first place... After they already doubled the main memory and upgraded 
the processor to get their Linux to run

I've looked into their Linux distro. They stripped it down a lot, 
but otherwise it's fairly standard

The OLPC with AmigaOS is just their own Linux with an Amiga emulator 
on top. That's easy to install

Although QEmu runs on the current Syllable development versions, 
so if you really wanted to (and some of us do) you could run REBOL 
in Linux or Windows on QEmu

The new REBOL 2 Core is included, so the bug in CALL on Linux is 
fixed

What about the new netbooks?  I've just got an Acer Aspire One ... 
comes with Linpus ... http://blog.linuxoss.com/2008/06/acer-aspire-one-mini-notebook-with-linpus-linux-lite/

This release focuses on making the system usable for running a number 
of standard servers, and several innovative REBOL servers.


The development files of the system, program headers, static libraries 
and development documentation, were moved to a separate area in /system/development/ 
and are now shipped in a separate package. If you want to compile 
software on Syllable Server, you need to install and register this 
package. The development files need to match the system: you can't 
use a package of any other Syllable version. (You will also need 
to install the Developer's Delight package collection and possibly 
other packages.)


User directories were moved from /home/ to /users/. Resource packages 
are in the process of moving from /usr/ to /resources/. /resources/ 
is currently a symbolic link to /usr/ so that resource packages will 
work from both places during the migration.


Many fixes were made, including more fixes for the CUPS print server 
and GhostScript. Creation of extra user accounts is possible now.


Many packages were updated, including the Linux kernel, IPTables, 
the GCC libraries, OpenSSH, SDL and QEmu. DirectFB was not upgraded 
due to incompatibility with Links2.


CDRTools were included for burning CDs, and the NetCat networking 
tool and the Transmission BitTorrent client were added.


In addition to the Syllable-specific early initialisation scripts 
(in the early-init subdirectory of packages), the late initialisation 
scripts (in the init subdirectory of packages) are now also executed. 
Several more initialisation scripts from Linux From Scratch were 
also added. Some servers can be started with the LFS scripts, others 
with the Syllable scripts (this will be unified in later releases).


The OpenSSH server was configured and now runs by default. At the 
first system start, security keys are generated that identify the 
server.


A collection of well-known root certificates from Certification Authorities 
was added to allow OpenSSL-based programs (such as OpenSSH) to establish 
the identity of destination points for network connections.


A MIME-types database was added in /etc/mime.types that is used by 
many programs, such as web servers, to identify the MIME types of 
files based on their file name extensions.

Several REBOL software stacks were added:

- The REBOL/Services Service Oriented Architecture.

- The UniServe network server framework.
- The Cheyenne Apache-class web server.
- A CAPTCHA library.
- A MySQL network protocol.

- The QuarterMaster web programming framework, based on a Model-View-Controller 
architecture. By default, it's configured to run on Cheyenne.


- The TINY library for parsing text, abstracting data access and 
building templates of generic text formats (including HTML). This 
library is an original creation and targets both ORCA and REBOL.


Configurations, including initialisation scripts, were added for 
the OpenSSH remote access server, the CUPS print server, the BIND 
domain name server, the Apache web server, the RSync file synchronisation 
server, the SaMBa Windows-compatible file server, the INetUtils FTP 
server and the VSFTP FTP server. Several of these are not included 
in the system, but need to be installed separately (the system is 
prepared for them). The sshd, cupsd and initd servers are started 
by default.


S3Cmd/S3Sync was included, a tool for accessing the Amazon Simple 
Storage Service (S3) and synchronising files with it.


As a demo, the Genode operating system framework, its Nitpicker windowing 
server (built on SDL) and its demonstration programs were included.

Well, not really; it's still Linux

http://www.djax.co.uk/kb/linux/vmware_clock_drift.html

Just the linux ones which don't have vmware tools installed

Similar considerations made me build two operating systems instead 
of keeping messing with Linux and Windows

By the way, I got us on DistroWatch, the main index of Linux distributions:

Yeah, but ten year old laptops take a week to compile a modern Linux 
distro

Everyone I met on the conferences is building applications out of 
multiple diverse open source parts. I'm offering all of them to solve 
their integration issues by taking the boring parts out of their 
hands and integrating them in a custom Linux platform

Alphe, EeePC is weird, too. It has some deviating hardware parts, 
so we don't support all hardware, yet. The shipped Xandros Linux 
also has some strange characteristics that make it hard to install 
other systems

I remember the old days when i was in university 10  years ago and 
i was animating linux install parties with april association ... 
that was always a pain to install linux on laptop

Various Linux distros have a hard time supporting the EeePC, too

Syllable Server can basically run anything Linux can run, but for 
many things there are no binary packages yet

Yes, according to the regular instructions of a package for Linux

Graham - why would you not use some linux distro out there? This 
is nothing against Syllable, but if they are mostly beta, there is 
plenty of Linux distros out there, no? Even some small and stripped 
down ones ...

The R3 core library hasn't been ported to Desktop yet, but I'm using 
one of the Linux-built libraries as is, through a trick

ah, I realize that you mean the format of the library used by syllable 
isn't normally linux .so files?

No, Syllable Desktop is not a Linux system at all

but using .so files doesn't depend on linux does it?  as long as 
the cpu matches... you should be able to connect into .so files (ifthe 
stack method used, corresponds obviously)

Well, except in this case of Syllable Desktop, because it is very 
well aligned with Linux

R3 depends on the C library so far, and although the same library 
is used the versioning of those libraries is different between Linux 
and Syllable Desktop (and thus also between Syllable Server and Syllable 
Desktop)

To illustrate how exact this needs to be: there are currently two 
host builds for Linux: on Ubuntu and on Fedora. The Fedora-built 
library doesn't work on Syllable Desktop

Plus 40+ extra Linux distros, of course...

Different kernel, for one thing. Syllable Desktop has nothing to 
do with Linux. Server is the Syllable user space on the Linux kernel.

I also liked what I saw of Haiku.  


I do plan on trying out syllable in the not too distant future... 
basically when I'll build myself a linux machine, I'll make a few 
different boot partitions on that machine, one will be syllable  
:-)

hahahahah  I want a clean desktop to run the management on... I really 
don't like the linux KDE and Gnome desktops.

It means we've also been in the PCPlus print magazine. Michael has 
been writing us up for years in the Linux Format magazine

No, it's additional. We've long planned the graphical Linux to force 
a migration path for Syllable Desktop

They're developed in lockstep, so most of the work I do on the Linux 
systems also goes into Desktop

There will also be a separate name for the desktop Linux, but I'll 
keep that under wraps for now

http://web.syllable.org/Linux/downloads.html

For those familiar with Linux and other Unix systems, it's interesting 
to note that some heavy system restructuring has been applied to 
make the system more understandable, by ditching as much of the ancient 
Unix legacy as possible. For example, the common software package 
layout has been restructured like this:

If you can manage to make an extra partition on your netbook you 
could even install Syllable Server from the included Linux (if you 
have that installed)

If you don't have Linux or want to use the entire netbook drive, 
you can boot from some Linux live USB stick and handle the Syllable 
Server installation package from there

Congratulations, and thanks for the report. Unetbootin is dependent 
on the particularities of a Linux distro, so it's quite possible 
that it wouldn't work with the current Syllable Server

Kaj, if you had to do an elevator pitch for Syllable Server, how 
would you set it apart from all of the other Linux distributions? 
That is what the perception will be because Syllable Server has a 
Linux kernel.

Linux people can be told that Server is among the leanest and easiest 
general-purpose Linux distros. Most lean and easy distros are very 
task-specific, while most general-purpose distros have become quite 
bloated or are still hard to configure

For REBOL people, Server is the only Linux distro that caters to 
their needs, shipping a collection of REBOL software preconfigured, 
including Boron and ORCA. The latter are hard to try out when you 
have to install them yourself, and because most REBOL people come 
from Windows, they generally have a hard time installing and configuring 
a REBOL server when they want to use Linux

Not necessarily compared to other Linux distros. And after that, 
much REBOL software is ready to go right away

You perceive me as difficult .. but I'm a windows guy forced to struggle 
along with linux :(

As I've tried to make clear, Syllable is targeted at people who want 
to use open source and Linux but in an easier way. But this is a 
huge and ambitious task, and we are as far as we are. If you want 
more, you have two options: helping or waiting

Server is among the leanest and easiest general-purpose Linux distros.

We're in the process of moving our REBOL-based ASCADA software from 
Windows to Linux. We already have a successful deployment at DHL 
using CentOS. I want to standardize on industrial PCs such as the 
Advantech UNO1170E running a lightweight Linux and our software. 
I'm evaluating Syllable Server even though it is only at 0.4 because 
it is console-based and REBOL friendly out of the box.

My Linux admin skills are not great . I spent several days of off-an-on 
attempts to get Syllable Server running. Now that I'm past the worst 
part of the learning curve, it's pretty easy. I just did another 
install on an Aspire One Netbook in about 15-20 minutes. I'm using 
Puppy LInux on a USB stick to partition and format the drive, run 
Grub and edit the text files.

I have a looming project with Glad where this can be deployed. I'll 
be doing some extended load testing next week to see how our services 
run and verify the server's stability. These days a lot of software 
gets used for years and never makes it to 1.0. I'm running REBOL 
scripts, sqlite and Cheyenne. We'll also be using another third-part 
y so library for PLC communications.


Kaj, do you feel confident in Syllable Server's present state to 
run this kind of workload. I'm just looking for a personal opinion, 
of course. The ultimate decision and responsibility is mine. From 
the customer's perspective, our product is an embedded system running 
a custom version of Linux.

Although both Desktop and Server are designed as general-purpose 
systems, we're obviously about thirty thousand software packages 
behind on the likes of Debian. On Server, because it's a Linux, we 
can install many of those packages from third-party package managers, 
but then we can't guarantee their stability because they're not integrated 
with Syllable

Server 0.4 uses the latest stable Linux kernel instead of the bleeding 
edge one, so that should also help stability

Thanks. The only open source package missing for my current project 
is sqlite. I downloaded the SO binary from http://sqlite.org, but 
haven't tested it yet because I still need to purchase the REBOL/SDK 
for Linux. My Windows SDK license file doesn't work. :) As you know, 
REBOL/Core doesn't support library access.

Kaj, in your documentation, you mentioned how to start Cheyenne and 
the FTP server automatically by uncommenting lines in their respective 
start scripts. On startup, where are these scripts being called? 
I ask because I would like to add applications to run at startup. 
If it's a standard Linux thing, that's fine, I can look it up. I 
noticed that the directory structure, though, is different from Linux 
installations I've seen in the past.

Yes, that is one of Syllable's selling points. :-) On Server, startup 
is currently a mix of traditional Linux start scripts and our own. 
The traditional ones are from the Linux From Scratch project, so 
you could refer to their documentation

Cheyenne has no traditional Linux packaging, so it's in the Syllable 
format. You can make your own resource package in the same format 
to add extra start scripts in a modular way. You would add a package 
directory under /resources/:

All those start scripts are called during system startup from the 
Linux From Scratch start scripts

The Linux is now a graphical development version based on Syllable 
Server 0.4. Cheyenne is much newer, almost the latest version. REBOL 
3 is much newer, the latest version for Linux, which is Alpha 99

That snappy Try REBOL site is running on an old 650 MHz Pentium 3 
with 128 MB of memory. :-) The website itself is quite inefficient 
compared to regular sites, because each REBOL evaluation request 
needs to be run in its own Linux process under a separate user account 
for security

That was one of my major motivations for producing an extra Linux 
system

OK.. My project requirements changed last week. For the project I 
mentioned earlier, I was going to have an embedded Linux server and 
then use throw-away Dell machines running Windows for REBOL/View 
nodes. Now the customer wants all embedded Linux with touch screens. 
I'm currently developing on Syllable Server and have to look at another 
distro to run X. I'm wondering out loud how stable your development 
release is for running nothing but a single REBOL/View application. 
It's for a material handling application in a manufacturing environment.

They run Linux of-course. Could you see Windows 95 with remote swap 
file? Maybe so, but I never tried that :-) They use them as production 
line terminals - various stages of production, recording info, storing 
into mySQL. The app was initially simple, now it is not simple anymore 
:-) I always said my friend is crazy. I suggested python, perl, etc. 
to him, to be more safe, but he did like REBOL, its size, just-on-file 
aspect, and now the system might be rolled to UK based facility :-)

Must be a very old or overloaded Linux then, to run View on 24 MB

Kaj, do you have a favorite Live CD Linux that you use to install 
Syllable Server. I've been using Puppy Linux, but it doesn't have 
XZ-Utils or Reiser filesystem support in the default distribution.

Have you ever evaluated TinyCore Linux? It's from the former developer 
of DSL (Damn Small Linux). On a modest Atom, it boots to a minimal 
desktop in about 7 seconds. Of course, it has almost nothing by default. 
The first thing you have to do is download packages of stuff you 
need.

It's more like a geek exercise in how far you can strip down a Linux 
distro

Primary is 4GB, the other 8GB. Linux wasn't offered as an option 
on this one without changing the primary to 8GB.

Has anyone tried to get Remobo or NeoRouter working on Syllable? 
The Linux ports might work...

Hamachi only supports Windows well. Before they were bought by LogMeIn 
they were working on Mac and Linux versions, but not since then, 
and the old alphas use a different network protocol than modern Hamachi. 
This is why I've been looking for a decent replacement, but it is 
tough since there are no open-source equivalent projects.

I actually switched to AltME at the time because Groove didn't come 
through with their Linux (and Mac) versions

If they were, I could continue to use Hamachi. Now there are an increasing 
number of OSX users, and the occasional Linux, with some Android 
users too (I can ignore the iPhone for now).

As I suspected, I didn't even have to recompile the Linux binary, 
just as with the core REBOL 3 library

Of course it just works on Syllable Server, because that's Linux, 
but for Syllable Desktop it turns out to need the newest Syllable 
development build for advanced facilities

I fetched devel. files for 0.6.6 and built ok there. 


I've tried to hack the obvious but did not succeed; mouse doesn't 
work. It is necessary to compare Linux drivers with Sy.

It's not so much that the video specs are closed, but that the drivers 
haven't been updated for years. Ideally, the Nvidia driver and others 
should be ported again from Xorg and Linux

I hope Carl released with R3 more Linux versions instead of windows 
version with his beta/Alpha releases... Linux users always miss the 
boat.. Even OSX users get more attention dies days ;-)...

Confirmed !! Linux REBCODE version is rebview1350042.tar.gz...Thanks 
  verify with 'print system/internal/rebcodes'

Ditto with the Linux version, Rebolinth.

yes i spotted that...but linux does not go further then December 
2006 unfortuneatly.. I think i have to deal with Rebcode thats limited 
on linux..at least I have someting that does assembly ;-)

Yeah, the OSX version, I use (which must be very close to the Linux 
version), is mainly for testing performance and playing around. Not 
for serious work.

why this code not work on linux  ?

OS X version: http://www.rebol.net/builds/024/rebview1350024.tar.gz

Linux version: http://www.rebol.net/builds/042/rebview1350042.tar.gz

I thought these days, that you just plug-in an embedded Linux, use 
ghostscript and that's it.