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It's not difficult to start; that's just a matter of doing the research 
on dynamic library loading and mocking up some code. And once extensions 
(not the host kit) are available on OS X, then the code can be tweaked 
and compiled.

You can start by going through R3 chat and helping Carl with his 
difficulties with porting the host kit and extensions to OS X.

Um, Carl is *right now* working on integrating community patches 
into a new host kit. Don't hold back.

Here's the place to ask that question, Robert. The answer is that 
there may not be a way to do that until the next (redesigned) host 
kit comes out.

The command! type is the function type that you export from extensions 
into REBOL. There are supposed to be many enhancements to the command! 
type in the next host kit, and extensions are supposed to be embeddable 
in the host as well. And DELECT is going to be redone too. With all 
of these changes, more enhancements to the extension model are likely 
as well.

There has been some speculation that the new extension and command! 
model that is coming with the next host kit will help solve this 
kind of thing. We shall see.

R3 Host-Kit A100 has been uploaded to www.rebol.com.  This release 
can build CORE or VIEW (with externalized graphics lib.)


However, although the graphics lib is there, the DRAW commands are 
still in the process of conversion (Cyphre will be working on that 
part).


It's also an example (and a fairly simple one to learn from) of how 
to build a host-based extension module, including a few scripts that 
show how to process the module source to embed it in the boot.

Although Cyphre and I have both been able to build it using Mingw, 
other's have not been able to do so, and we're not sure why as of 
yet.


Therefore, we're not quite ready to distribute the host-kit to everyone, 
because we need more testing on it. However, if you want to actually 
test it (windows only), then ask Henrik for the download URL.

The host kit comes with all files necessary to build itself.  In 
theory, all you need to do is type "make" and it will produce R3/View 
(as r3.exe).  Also, make core will produce a core exe, w/o graphics.

so this host kit is only buildable under mingw, not VS?

The host-kit can be built by any reasonable C and C++ compiler/linker.

www.rebol.com/r3/downloads/host-kit-a100.zip

Do you have an integrated cross-plattform build for the host-kit?

The method I use for R3 simply uses REBOL to generate the host-kit, 
the makefile, and other related files at the same time.

and now is probably as good a time as any to move this discussion 
to !REBOL3 Host Kit

Most of the host kit problems are R3 problems as well. We have categories 
in R3's Curecode project, and we can add a Host-Kit category if needed 
(I will do so right now). Multiple trackers are not a good idea, 
in general. We'll see if they become a problem in this specific case.

Carl calls it a release, so I consider it a release. And yes, should 
be in R3 Host Kit

Call to Community to help us get the next host-kit released:

And, of course the host-kit that needs to be tested needs to be released. 
IMO we will release a RC to get feedback on the extension part.

What's the reason that the Linux host-kit has not been released yet?

http://www.rebol.com/r3/downloads/r3-host-kit-a101.zip

until host-kit-a100, the extensions that I produced worked properly. 
With a102, the tests fail at a certain point (r3 found a problem 
...), even with the sample extension example produced by Carl. Any 
other experience on compatibility problems ?

http://www.rebol.com/r3/docs/concepts/extensions-making.html#section-17
says it's out of date and I'm really having trouble including words 
as symbols in a result block of an extension command. 

It works fine with an *INIT_BLOCK defined as


 const char *init_block = "REBOL [\nTitle: {Power Management}\nName: 
 power\nType: extension\nExports: [power-status]\n]\n"

     "lib-boot:           does [map-words words] ;-- Is that a good idea?\n"

     "words:             [ac-line battery remains of high low critical 
     charging]\n"
	    "map-words:    command [words [block!]]\n"
	    "power-status: command []\n"
;

if after IMPORT %power.dll I call SYSTEM/MODULES/POWER/LIB-BOOT.


Is there a way to have IMPORT automatically execute the LIB-BOOT 
code with a simple extension not included into the host code with 
host-kit?

the images are pointers, so the data doesn't need to be copied if 
you are just manipulating it.   though it seems there was some image 
bugs in the A107 (not sure where) which AFAIK are fixed but not yet 
released in current host-kit (cyphre knows for sure).

RXIARG arg;
arg.addr = s;


in the next host-kit version, Carl will be adding macros for this 
exact situation... an oversight of his.

this is what carl will be adding to the next host-kit.... 


//------------------
//-    #RXV_xxx
//
// REBOL EXTENSION GET Macros
//
// provide direct RXIARG access macros
// with these macros, the single argument should be an RXIARG *
//

// this is usefull when the RXIARG is NOT being used from an argument 
frame

// but as a single value, like when we use RL_Get_Field() or RL_Get_Value()
//
// if the argument is dynamically allocated, ex:
//    RXIARG arg = OS_MAKE(sizeof(RXIARG)); 
// then use the macros like so:
//     RXV_WORD(*(arg));
//------------------
#define RXV_INT64(a)		(a.int64)
#define RXV_INT32(a)		(i32)(a.int64)
#define RXV_INTEGER(a)	(a.int64) // maps to RXT_INTEGER
#define RXV_DEC64(a)		(a.dec64)
#define RXV_DECIMAL(a)	(a.dec64) // maps to RXT_DECIMAL
#define RXV_LOGIC(a)		(a.int32a)
#define RXV_CHAR(a)		(a.int32a)
#define RXV_TIME(a)		(a.int64)
#define RXV_DATE(a)		(a.int32a)
#define RXV_WORD(a)		(a.int32a)
#define RXV_PAIR(a)		(a.pair)
#define RXV_TUPLE(a)		(a.bytes)
#define RXV_SERIES(a)		(a.series)
#define RXV_BLOCK(a)		(a.series)
#define RXV_INDEX(a)		(a.index)
#define RXV_OBJECT(a)	(a.addr)
#define RXV_MODULE(a)	(a.addr)
#define RXV_HANDLE(a)	(a.addr)
#define RXV_IMAGE(a)		(a.image)
#define RXV_GOB(a)		(a.addr)

hum... so RL_SET_VALUE has  bug in the A110 host-kit...

I had that reaction when I had an unstable CGR host-kit.

The A110 host kit more intelligently handles struct packing.

RL_PRINT should work in any uses of the host_kit

what?  I'm using it my own gcc compiled version of the host-kit... 
I don't understand... Andreas will have to step in... I don't know 
why you're having that error.

Robert - what is further "low-level" plan? I can see ( http://www.rebol.net/wiki/Host-Kit_Development_Notes
) that we will get A104, A105, which are going to be more of a merge 
releases. But do you have an idea, what will Carl work on next? Not 
that there would not be lots of work ahead :-) ( http://www.rebol.com/rebol3/index.html
) Will e.g. tasking be next?

Two notes here. Please ask Carl for two small changes/additions:


- Add Projects page directly to the right menu here: http://www.rebol.com/rebol3/index.html
- it is simply hidden and can be seen only from a Roadmap page ...

- I thought we already added tasking/IPC methods to the projects 
page. It is imo important and legitimate, and it should be briefly 
added, untill such feature is implemented - http://www.rebol.com/projects.html

Cyphre has been out of town for the past week and has not yet reported 
back on his progress, and he's also focusing on many host kit issues 
that need to be solved.

Umm.. isn' t this just vid-ext-kit stuff?

it looks very similar to the vid ext kit design

http://www.rebol.com/r3/downloads/r3-host-kit-a105.zip

http://www.rebol.com/r3/downloads/r3-host-kit-annn.zip- the nnn 
refers to the current version ...

I think that a compiled version of each host-kit should always be 
included in every release. who will mind the few extra kb required?

a question... is there a single place where a gob is destroyed (maybe 
a callback or some method) within the host-kit?  just so its more 
invisible, when I need to detach a gob from the OpenGL rendering 
context... at this point I have all I need to build an OpenGL gob.. 
but nothing to get it automatically cleaned up.

never mind ...core...I would need to compile host kit

is there an available host kit version around? Just to play around...

pre-compiled? I only see the kit.

Links were posted in the host kit group ... check them out

pekr, yes exactly. the box model was turned off when the GUI was 
moved to the host kit. now it's turned back on.

Pekr no i never coplained cause i didn't got some half made work 
in progress to test ... I just complain to get the direction to know 
what would be the futur and to know the agenda ... that's all !!! 
 I don't caore of host kit i don't care of the widgets anyway if 
it doesn't fit my taste I'm grown anough  to do my own widgets anytime 
like i did with R2 /VID

Ok, so I need to try it under W7. Maybe it's something that can be 
solved in host-kit.

I'll see if I can make one similar to the style browser for the vid 
extension kit, but that depends on the state of certain styles.

we need a style browser, because that is a very quick way to check 
which styles are crashing. could not have shipped the vid extension 
kit without it.

There might be slightly different usability issues with nested vs. 
multiline tabs. Multiline tabs are plain confusing (where is the 
right button?), where nested tabs can be disorienting (where am I 
or what mode am I in?). I've built an app in VID Extension kit using 
the latter method, and the app can sometimes be disorienting to use, 
so I had to help out by using different colored backgrounds.

I would probably agree, if I didn't have other experience with the 
VID Extension Kit. The trick is to make the focusing mechanism flexible 
enough to handle all situations. We are not building a GUI that handles 
specialized situations. We are building a GUI for large business 
applications with dozens of windows, hundreds of widgets and tons 
of forms. We absolutely do not want to have something like focusing 
being a special case per style as other than a special option.

We don't have some good model for this right now.

 - We have the VID Extension Kit. It's been doing focusing centrally 
 for two years now and it works quite well, sans some well-defined 
 problems, which we have a good chance of fixing for R3.

Android can do SDL, so it should be able to do the host kit and AGG, 
in several ways

Whether you reimplement in Java or port the host kit, you would need 
the same mapping from the Java semantic model to the REBOL semantic 
model; they have little in common. That will probably be the hardest 
part to get right, especially if we do a native r3lib port and just 
rewrite the host.

That doesn't make sense... The VID Extension Kit won't entirely prove 
simplicity, because it needs to work around a buggy View, but when 
building all the necessary subsystems, the principle of VID is sound 
for highly scalable apps.

what just happened with the     !REBOL3 Host Kit     world?

I can give you some general information about the host kit though...

general host-kit starter information:  http://www.rebol.com/r3/docs/concepts/host-kit.html


dowload link for the latest public host-kit:  http://www.rebol.com/r3/downloads/r3-host-kit-a107.zip


this includes both MS and linux distros, note that the linux one 
doesn't have the required files for enabling the graphics on linux 
(they have yet to be attempted by anyone AFAIK).

The above host kit link doesn't do much good: it's Windows-configured, 
without interpreter libraries and makefiles for Amiga or Linux

That's Core, though, not the host kit

Wrong link: http://www.rebol.com/r3/downloads/r3-host-kit-a107-42.tar.gz

The host-kit has probably changed more architecturally in 3 alpha 
versions than the whole python life cycle.

Right now there are so many changes between host kit alphas that 
there tend to be regression bugs with every release. They get fixed.

For the to-be-made amiga host-kit, would it be possible to include 
both dynamic (libr3.so) and static (libr3.a) linked r3 core libs?

Why those restrictions, Andreas? Core is a statically linked host 
kit.

just thinking out loud a bit while browsing the host-kit here..

You can't reproduce Core from the host kit? I understand that you 
can't make official binaries, but there shouldn't be anything stopping 
you from creating a single program that does everything Core does 
from the host kit once the host kit is out of alpha.

Aargh! http://www.rebol.com/r3/downloads/r3-host-kit-a107-42.tar.gz
defies automated downloading

It segfaults on loading R3 Chat. I don't think that was the case 
with the previous host kit I had (alpha 98, I think). It also works 
with the RT A107 binary

Andreas - any enhancements could go into default host-kit distro,no? 
:-)

I got the A107 host kit working on Syllable Desktop

something like the 'REMOVE function, but accessible from within the 
extension/host-kit

Just to make sure I'm not missing on latest releases - there is no 
A108 or A109 host-kit version available yet?

A109 host-kit is being tested. See !REBOL3 for link if you want to 
help test it. But, it contains no improvements on the host-kit side... 
all changes right now are focused on the core lib.


But, if you run A109 and type xtest you will see the resident test 
extension run... so we know it's working at least that well.

BTW, why is this chat in host-kit area?

Related to text handling discussion, which I suppose occurs at the 
host-kit level. But it should probably have a separate group.

note that this release will not actually be usefull for any application 
work, its just a proof of concept which hopefully will allow Carl 
and others to see just how flexible the host-kit already is.

I just noticed there is no real license terms in the host-kit distributions 
... an oversight?

I just crapped one of the files of my custom host kit environment... 
doh... just as I was doing a backup.

I'm trying to compile a host-kit for amiga.. getting an error from 
RL_Init() stating Host-lib wrong size

if you have an Amiga specific host kit and are trying to merge the 
View stuff into it, I'd refer to the amiga host-kit and retro-fit 
that...

did you get a host kit for the amiga from carl?

then just see if the functions actually match to those.. in the host-kit


ex, does calling RL_Get_Value actually try to get a value from a 
block or is

cool, you might want to look into my Extended Custom Gob Rendering 
host-kit once you've got the default host-kit working with graphics.

so is there supposed to be one host-kit per platform in the future 
or ?

it being the CGR path to host-kit... its still an infant, but I think 
its promissing already... just worked out a few issues with Andreas 
and its working fine on windows now.

in the host-kit/src there is an os folder... that is where all the 
OS/platform-specific things are supposed to be.

Andreas, sharing a common host-kit might be #ifdef hell though?

yeah we need to get to the point where Carl doesn't touch the host-kit 
anymore  ;-D

not good for common host-kit later though..

Gregg, for R3 the View, Core and Command stuff are considered to 
be capabilities, not builds. With the host kit, we are assuming dozens 
of different builds (afaik). If you want View capabilities, put its 
module in your Needs header. Yes, I'm aware that they aren't yet 
fully modularized, but that is the plan.

Ok, so the subject of the discussion is how to move the host-kit 
build and its related processes to a more manageable method.

So... what's the general flow. For example:

1. developer clones host-kit repo
2. makes changes as needed
3. commits to local repo


Then, developer must somehow put them somewhere that we can pull 
from, correct?

Tomorrow, if all goes well, I'll finish A110. I'll check that both 
the win32 and posix dirs are correct and build.


As part of the process, I'm going to text process the files to set 
them to LF only.

Then, I'll push it to the rebol/r3-host-kit repo (to be created.)

Do we want r3-hostkit or r3-host-kit ?

Most of the time I write it host-kit.

But whatever you prefer. r3-host-kit is fine as well.

The problem is that host-kit appears in many places spelled like 
that already. It may lead to errors to remove the - at this time.

Now someone should really write some short docs. This is so complex 
and surely was not created for normal mortal, who just wants to download 
few source files and build a distro? So I downloaded Tortoise Git, 
naively thinking this is all I need. No, so I installed Git preview 
version (not full msysGit). Now - what should I do? I created a directory 
called host-kit, right pressed mouse, and chose "create repository 
here" or something like that. Now once again I press right mosue 
button, and try either git-clone, or Git sync, but it does nothing 
... I think my problem might be (apart from being too dumb and not 
willing to spend tonnes of my free time with such complex stuff):

- I am required to have some kind of account at target site

- I don't have it somehow linked with SSH stuff (did not choose to 
use my putty installation during the installation phase)


How do I get the actual copy of R3 Host Kit? There might be plenty 
users as me, willing just to download recent sources, and build, 
not to commit anything ...

Andreas: How would I apply for commit access to the host-kit? I would 
like to be the Amiga-specific maintainer of course.

I can't test it myself on most of those systems, but I'll keep the 
idea in mind when digging further into the host kit. There are a 
few well known configuration systems that are much too bloated to 
use, but that are good sources to collect the tests needed on systems 
that I don't have