AltME groups: search

Is there a sticky thread feature being worked on for Altme?  Would 
br really good for new group explanations etc.

Until the recent REBOL.net crashes I assumed the IOS servers I was 
using had proper backup. I learned otherwise [If we want to continue 
this, we could swap to an IOS group]

Every IT group I have visited has had nothing but trouble with Exchange 
Server...to make the point that it ain't ready for prime time.

That group will likely get tired of Exchange over time, so an after-sell 
is always possible.

Thanks. i try my best, but Altme and IOS are minority products, so 
they've got to be better than good to get to a shortlist..
Altme has at least three ways of losing data.

And having to rename the world every time there is a server crash 
doesn't make this group a useful reference site.

how do I make a new group again ?

Reichart: see my comment at top of this group regarding a separate 
AltME usability issue.

Reichart:can you move the Linux group-with all the messages- to the 
operating system group?Make sense to have it there

i think that's highlighting the users in a private group (you need 
to haev a private group selected)

Yup, it is a sublt way to give you a hint who is and is not part 
of a private group (that you are in).

When we have group dividers, why are some groups named with a "!" 
prefix ? I find it annoying when manual searching in alphabetical 
order.

the ! has sort of become a standard which refers to specific applications, 
instead of just when taking about a topic.  The world masters usually 
add it to a group when they feel it is appropriate.  Basically everything 
that goes into products...

Feature Request:  I'd like a one button push or automtated/timed 
solution to bring up the "Getting Started Window" OR remove focus 
from all groups.  Why?  If you aren't actually using AltME (it's 
running in the background), and you get new messages, the messages 
in the group you are currently 'in' aren't highlighted as new.  Which 
can make it confusing when the tool tells you a new message has been 
received, but you don't see a hightlight on any group (and don't 
check the time on the messages in the 'current' group).

this being said, if it can be done as part of your rewrite, the ability 
to run altme on command-line to be able to post to a group, would 
be VERY powerfull.

Some more ideas:

write altme://user:[pass-:-Rebol3]/!AltME/ "message"

Resolved of the first url here to the second url
by the Rebol3 world (local distribution):

altme://user:[pass-:-Rebol3]/!AltME/239
is resolved to:
altme://user:[pass-:-Rebol3]/151/239

151 is the set-file number for the !AltME group, and
239 is the message id.

read altme://user:[pass-:-Rebol3]/!AltME
;== [set-number 151 first-available-message 1 last-message 242]


So it returns some group info, not the content of all the messages 
!

To get a message:

read altme://user:[pass-:-Rebol3]/!AltME/239

;== [(date) 9 (colour) [font [fg 0.0.0 bg 240.240.240]] "We are working 
towards that."]

To find a user name by the set-number:

read altme://user:[pass-:-Rebol3]/9

;== ["Reichart" [reichart-:-safeworlds-:-com] (membership) (dates etc..)]

If a bad guy discovers the guest/guest logon they can delete every 
group.
Security is not one of Altme's core qualities.

you can have guest accounts but they'll never kill any moderated 
group.

moderator would have a short list of things people can do with a 
group.

Any easy way of limiting "Guest" posts to the Accounts group [only]?

possibly also some kind of barrier to avoid replying to announcements 
in the announce group

OK, I know we've covered this before but how do I remove myself from 
a group (Christianity in this case). This is what I tried:

1. Right click the group

2. Click on my username on the right hand side and observe it move 
to the left ... so far so good

3. Click save and get a dialog that says, "You must include yourself 
in the group."

4. Cancel to dismiss the dialog (I figure "Delete" is asking for 
trouble at this stage)  ;)

???

I do that, and click "Save". Each time I open the self profile, though, 
the group is checked again.

R: Something like an "Ignore this group" button maybe?

I recently got the recycle bug  on a single group of a small world 
(repeatdly ) untill someone else posted to that group.  (note my 
client was running on the same machine the world was running on)

In a world as large as this one, perhaps there should be a way to 
quickly view Group information such as descriptions.  Maybe even 
the ability to search the groups to see if a group relevant to your 
next post exists or if you should create a new group for the post.

Please put the SDK group under the REBOL divider.

Hm...  Top Ten...  Some of these undoubtedly will be held for the 
new architecture, but here's my top requests...


1) Group level settings for message notification (activate window, 
play sound)
2) Group name/description search

3) Opt out of public groups so that the group remains public but 
you don't see it.

4) Alphabetical listing of users in group properties (Who's in the 
group, who's not)

5) Navigaion (Forward, Backword) buttons would be really helpful 
particularly when browsing checklists OR clicking on the checklist 
button replaces the group lists with checklists.

6)  When you right click a message then a popup shows telling you 
the text has been copied. This is nice but annoying because you can't 
hit Enter and watch it disappear. I'd personally really prefer a 
context menu but if it just dissappeared after 3 seconds or so that 
would be good too.

(1) Mark al as read per group

(2) Mark all messages as read (all groups)
(3) Remove yourself from a group
(4) APIs for external authN / authZ / ...

[1] Grouping of calendar events so you can filter select which type 
or with whom, specific calendar events are shared with, for display.
[2] Weekview in the calendar to fit more events pr. day

[3] Events from calendar formatted as a chronological TODO or activity 
list

[4] Export the calendar as HTML (it's a real problem if you have 
many events per day and can only see a small amount of them)

[5] Dynamic width of the user/group list to the left. Many group 
titles are chopped off.
[6] Filter search in the Users and Groups list

[7] Bigger/adjustable text area size in checklist entries, so it 
would be more suitable to store makedoc2 formatted documents in them 
(instant document repository!)

[8] Export checklists in makedoc2 format for integration in other 
makedoc2 docs

[9] Checklists as a column view. It would mean for Checklists: Spreadsheets 
that Checklists are in the left column and Spreadsheets are in the 
right column. You can select other checklists immediately without 
having to go back to the top and select a new one.

[10] Generally resizable windows everywhere. Small text areas are 
annoying!

:-)

(1) Mark read position ("I've read up to here."). Sometimes I also 
like to quickly scan a group which may have a really long discussion 
in it, but I don't want it to be automatically marked as read, because 
I'm actually doing something else more important.

(2) Save selected messages. Some messages contain real gems worth 
saving and refining.

The intention of restricting guest account is along the lines of 
adding more restrictions on users.  For example, now, anyone can 
delete/rename/create groups.  It would be better to have this limited 
to to either the creator of the group or another level of world masters.

1) FAST Message scroll-list with 'streaming' so I can browse/search 
in all messages in a group on the disk without need to setup the 
buffer in preferences and loose the performace and memory. (Get rid 
of the "Message cannot be shown. See Settings panel to allow older 
messages (Limit)." requester)

regarding Bookmarks

Maybe a way to put the marked messages in a special group "Bookmarks".

If I click on a selected message in this group the original group 
will be opened similar to the Search window.

(...perhaps. Maybe it's better to try to keep them as a regular group, 
but just expand the flexibility of regular groups...)

If you want to clear up (un)RED condition, cant you just click on 
the group and then click out? It doesnt take very long at all. Am 
I missing something?

Exactly.  Today, I opened up altme and had to click on every group. 
 It took me about 6 minutes.   Yes.. I can do this everytime, but 
I like how Graham put it.. "computers are made to reduce work..". 
 So, I think this would be a good feature.   Thanks for all the feedback 
people.  :-)

Can you look in rambo-group? noted such problems with older knoppix 
(=debian) there. you see cursor, then nothing happens?

In Silesion group, late today I will post about what I have in plan 
and will "complain" a bit about IOS ... it is so primitive db vise, 
that it is not much usable ...

my pleasure... only strange that my last post ended up  here... it 
was a copy/paste of info in this group meant for another group.. 
hum...

any how... I am saturating this group... so I'll stop, but I'd like 
some support from others in trying to ORGanize the Content of rebol.ORG.

oops.  last message to wrong group.  don't read it  :)

Maxim, I have the script.  Playing with it now.  If I was directing 
this question at you I would have put it in the !Liquid group.  ;-) 
 This is a question about the behind the scenes opperations of rebol.org...

I attempted to rename button.r to vid-button.r so the new script 
should be deleted and the old one renamed if possible.  As for the 
rest of them...

wizard.r  TO vid-wizard.r
group.r TO vid-group.r    
drop-down.r TO vid-drop-down.r   
dragbar.r TO vid-drag-bar.r       
date.r TO vid-date.r


Since we won't be calling the GUI Dialect in R3 VID the new names 
should make what the scripts do clear even after R3 GUI scripts start 
popping up...

Mike

I checked your library example from the I'm new group producing errors.

There is probably a weakness, as the script does not regard comment 
lines.
A short enhancement would be
   
parse-ini-file: func [
    file-name [file!]
   /local ini-block
    current-section
    parsed-line
    section-name
][
 ini-block: copy []
    current-section: copy []
    foreach ini-line read/lines file-name [
		if #";" <> first ini-line [ ; do not process comment lines
			section-name: ini-line
			error? try [section-name: first load/all ini-line]
			either any [
				error? try [block? section-name]
				not block? section-name
			][
				parsed-line: parse/all ini-line "="
				append last current-section parsed-line/1
				append last current-section parsed-line/2
			][
				append ini-block current-section
				current-section: copy []
				append current-section form section-name
				append/only current-section copy []
			] ;; either
		]
    ] ;; for
 append ini-block current-section
 return to-hash ini-block
 ]

Thanks Graham.

Paging for AltME archive.....We only put the basics in place. It 
is certainly improvable.

Meanwhile, you can make great leaps if you are happy to edit the 
end of the URL ....

... eg 16273 is the post number for group 453 of world R3WP. Change 
the 16273 to move quickly:
http://www.rebol.org/aga-display-posts.r?post=r3wp453x16273

Please do, although perhaps the Debug p1.3 or View group might be 
better for that :)

ok, now I am glad Gregg provided new group for that, so I will move 
and post my observations in new Installer group ...

altme does something like this (try to open a subwindow, like a group 
window and so on)

Resyncs sometimes happen in a group if you are connected at the moment 
someone posts a message to it.

That may explain some random resyncs. though not all.....So simply 
staying connected for a long while may be beneficial.

I do see the I'm New group now.  I did try a number adjust before 
the reinstall went from the default 100 to 1000 to 1 to 100 to 10000 
to 100.  Nothing.

I'm about to try the . trick on the Make-doc group

Geomol....\group /group allows you to do some heterogeneous grouping...maybe 
to achieve what you want.

I THINK /group \group allows you to do what you want there, Geomol.

\note A note

\group

\table

some text

/table

more text

/group

/note

###

Yes, it's possible! :-) It might also be possible without the group:

\note A note

\table

some text

/table

more text

/note

###


But my point is, that making the standard this way won't prevent 
the writer to type:

\note A note

\group

\table

some text

/note

more text

/group

/table

###


making an upredictable output. And that's the problem. It's not an 
optimal standard in my view.

Gregg? Same question as for Linux: can someone move this group under 
the Operating Systems divider? Thanks

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=55553&package_id=50546

Kaj - I will open group for syncing here, I want to gather some links 
... few weeks ago you had interesting comments here (groove etc.) 
- would you find some links to submit?

when I run Apache and my virtual host with SuexecUserGroup jablunkovsko 
jabladm, I can't run CGI at all, and that is strange! All directories 
and files are of owner=jablunkovsko, group=jabladm, including rebpro, 
rsp.cgi

Simple commenting out Suexec directive enables me to run CGI ... 
but still not luck writing to file. My friend suggested me to add 
../db/ dir permissions of 777, to see what happens. Then yes, I can 
see %log.txt generated, owner and group is apache ....

is setting recursively "s" option for files and diretories good to 
achieve correct user/group ids when copying via ftp? Or it is not 
necessary?

group "s" on a dir  says that by default; all  files and dirs created 
below me will have the same  group ownership/perms that I have.

lower s it the "sticky" bit for dirs to cause item under them to 
take on the same permissions and ownership
only applies to directories owner and group (but effects files)


upper case S I am not recalling off the top of my head ... applies 
to files  scriptable or sockets or something

I am trying for first time to setup rebol for cgi on  remote Apache 
web server on Linux.
I am working from WinXP
Site management is done with EnsimPro. Ftp does not yet working.
So what is done up to now:

Uploaded file Rebol from rebol-core-2602042.tar package for Linux 
to cgi-bin directory;

Set permisions to owner read, write, execute and for group and others 
to read, execute;
Test script -> write file read file,

Test script uploaded (throught web broeser by using EnsimPro web 
interface) test script:

#!/var/www/cgi-bin/rebol -cs

REBOL [Title: "CGI Basics"]

print ["Content-type: text/html" newline]

print "Hello!!!"

to cgi-bin directory;
Set the same permisions.


Pointing to the test file I am getting "500 Internal server errror" 
What else could be wrong?


Interesting that I have interpreters directory on this web server 
where are couple files regarding php and perl.
Could it be connected with my problem?

Ok, I have a question regarding blog.r .  I set it up on a server 
to play with it for a few minutes.  After a couple kinks, I got it 
working with a few tests.   I went to delete the test blogs but found 
they were created under the www-data user and group (this is on a 
linux server) and I do not have writes to delete or modify these 
files.   In the future, is there a way to have the files created 
under a different user / group?

Can you set the owner-id / group-id with set-mode?   Is there a good 
resource on set-modes other than the function dictionary?  I've been 
searching but haven't come up with anything...

Also, I don't know if this is so with every setup, but when you create 
a file with a CGI script, the process owner, not the script owner, 
is the owner of the file, so you'd need to be able to do owner-read/owner-write. 
 I usually set owner/group/world-read/write to true and execute to 
false.

(see 'Files' group)

Changed index.html permission to 646, and it works now. Maybe CGI 
scripts are being run under the Apache user or group, who knows. 
Thanks for pointers!

wrong group...sorry

There are two major types of XML (or SGML) APIs:

Tree-based APIs

    These map an XML document into an internal tree structure, then allow 
    an application to navigate that tree. The Document Object Model (DOM) 
    working group at the World-Wide Web Consortium (W3C) maintains a 
    recommended tree-based API for XML and HTML documents, and there 
    are many such APIs from other sources. 
Event-based APIs

    An event-based API, on the other hand, reports parsing events (such 
    as the start and end of elements) directly to the application through 
    callbacks, and does not usually build an internal tree. The application 
    implements handlers to deal with the different events, much like 
    handling events in a graphical user interface. SAX is the best known 
    example of such an API.

But we are Off topic here :-) Shouldn't we move to the "Chat" group 
?

(Continued in the !Beer group...)

Should this group be web public?

i think we should consider Roma only if we manage to get an arganized 
group there. that would mean a lot of fun.

The BSD-free, you are right, is old. at that time the GPL was standard, 
just not written. if you asked someone how something worked, you 
got answer, examples, etc. was a closed group, such programmers, 
no need to think big about licensing.

I change the name to 'PowerPack'  instead of 'Rebol powerpack'  ..


it makes it easier to see the name of this group ... hope no one 
objects

Is anyone in this group still interested in a more serious REBOL 
repository? May be adjunct to REBOL.org, or something else, but targeted 
at a more consistent model for libraries and modules, so things are 
easier to INCLUDE and reuse.

I haven't followed the group too closely, but are the rules and the 
model for libraries and modules made?

There's a new private chat group. I'll add you to it.

maybe we can repurpose this group for Power Mezz? the ideas are probably 
similar.

or, someone with permissions please make a Power Mezz group.

That's the Power Mezz package - this is a different group.

Looking back at the discussions, it looks like it was a similar idea 
to what the R3 group has been calling R3/Plus.

ouch wrong group

uploaded. if you get a new version with a new screenshot, you can 
upload it yourself, but you need an account to upload images... otherwise 
throw the link in the wikibook group

RT's investor? :-) First I would try to talk to those folks, then 
to speculate about how much it will be. Maybe there is some amigan 
inside the group :-)

Hello Denis,


So, one of the things a group of us have been talking about is doing 
some group lessons (world wide).


We have researched some tools for making this possible.  We narrowed 
it down to Macromedia's Breeze.  In fact last week I talked for about 
2 hours with their team (meaning the people that actually designed 
and programmed it).


This week I'm talking to their OEM leads about integrating Breeze 
from Rebol into Web applications.


So our first Breeze interactive lesson will be in a few weeks is 
my guess.  WE have not idea how good it will be with more than 10 
people, and world wide, but we are going to try.


As to a road map.  Programming languages in general are difficult 
to learn in a methodical method.  Rebol being even more difficult 
(in my opinion), because learning the structure does not help very 
much.  Even learning how Rebol works is not all that usefull (compared 
to lets say Basic, or a Batching system).

I will make some simple suggestions though:


1.	Go to Rebol.com, and read what is offered there.  It actually 
is a good starting point.  Rebol Essentials" which is a PDF on the 
site is worth reading.


2.	Write your own dictionary.  Literally, pick a given word in Rebol, 
use it in a sentence.  And just work your way through all 400+ words. 
 You can do it in a few hours.  All you need to do is try to use 
it in a way the Rebol Dictionary does not use it.



3.	Build something you really want to build.  Unless you have a goal, 
working on anything is going to be boring.  Think of a utility, or 
a game that you have always wanted to understand better, or want 
to play with, and build it.  Another cool concept is to simply copy 
it from an existing version in some other language you already know, 
or that is more simple (like Basic).

interesting talk - why this group is not web-public? :-)

denismx, when I've taught REBOL to people, even people who are already 
familiar with other programming languages, it has been helpful to 
make the distinction between the REBOL language and the dialect engines.


REBOL is really a data model and related syntax, and a bundle of 
library functions that manipulate data in this model. A dialect is 
really a semantic model for interpreting this data, like what people 
think of as a language in real life. A dialect engine is a set of 
library functions that think of the data in the same way - I know 
this sounds anthropomorphic, but it makes it easier to explain REBOL 
if you think of the different dialect engines as entities that are 
acting on a set of commands you are giving them. You can even use 
role playing to demonstrate this, having one of your students act 
out the part. It also helps to name each of these models after the 
main function that implements them - otherwise people might not get 
the distinction between them and REBOL as a whole.


There are some functions that only deal with the REBOL data model 
and don't really do anything with the data other than translate it 
from or to some concrete syntax. It is best to group these functions 
by the syntax they implement - the group that implements what people 
normally think of as the REBOL syntax is LOAD, SAVE and MOLD.


When teaching REBOL dialects I usually start with what I call the 
DO engine, what people normally think of as the REBOL language. DO 
is a stack machine like Forth, but it uses a prefix syntax to make 
it easier to use (by making DO dialect code more resemble that in 
other programming languages). DO also does a simple swapping hack 
to implement inline operators, which you will have to demonstrate 
so that your students will understand DO's operator precedence or 
lack thereof. DO always works on REBOL data: If you pass it a string 
or file that contains REBOL syntax code, DO will call LOAD to convert 
it to REBOL data - this is an important distinction to make so that 
your students can distinguish between the data and the processor 
of that data. There are many functions that depend on DO to interpret 
their blocks of "code", such as IF, WHILE, FOR, etc. It is important 
to note that these are just functions, not "syntax". DO's only syntax 
is the predefined operators that DO swaps (these are effectively 
keywords because of how the swap is implemented), the word/set-word/get-word 
difference, the interpretation of paths and the precedence of parens. 
Everything else is a function.


There is also the PARSE engine, a rule-based recursive-decent parser 
with limited backtracking, that implements three dialects (simple 
parse, string parse and block parse). These dialects actually have 
keywords, as well as an entirely different execution model. Also, 
there is the View engine, which implements the LAYOUT and DRAW dialects.


Refering to these engines as state machines isn't helpful, because 
the distinctions between their execution models, or whether they 
even have execution models, is important for distinguishing between 
them. You need to use the higher-level terms like stack machine, 
composition engine and such.

I hope this helps!

Well, I've just manually extracted the rebol functions from my latest 
script demo-virtual-face.r (as posted in the View group), so I'm 
looking at those. I've excluded layout and draw dialect keywords. 
The order in which the functions appear is interesting. I have some 
duplicates. So now I'm analysing..

the better way to gauge useage is not by frequency within one script 
but by useage amongst many scripts... where useage within that script 
many times still only counts as one.  I'd use the rebol.org site 
to scan scripts from any given group and put usage from them.  Thus 
networking would score view as almost 0 where gui would place view 
as the most used word (in every script)

I've started this group to discuss about the COM implementation on 
REBOL.

Renamed this group from "COM Supporting" -> "Windows/COM Support"

Should make this group web-public. Any objections ?

I don't think there's anything in this group that anyone would be 
offended by publishing...

hummm should change group... polluting the liquid group...

I am wondering if there will be a place for people to meet, show 
off and exchange stuff as a group... later during the evening/night?

Cyphre could answer that. I invited him on ICQ to join this group 
...