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Pekr, ah :) Early in the morning here, so I need to get in gear. 
Good point!

I do not "reserve" anything for anybody. I just know that "using 
trial and error" is (unfortunately) not the way how to get things 
done.

Well, we will see, what is Red's parse going to be about. I expect 
Gab to implement his compile rules, or something like that. Actually 
I never investigated his system, so we might get a bit different 
stuff, who knows ...

I only have R2 parsing in World today, as my initial goal was just 
to get to a point, where my R2 programs could run. It would for sure 
be an idea to look at the extensions at some point. And then desicions 
has to be made, if it should all be with extensions, if there should 
be more than one way of parsing, if it should still be mezzanine 
or made in C, or maybe some JIT compilation. Many options. :)

I imagine Doc will profile things if performance becomes his argument. 
I support what makes it easier to use PARSE to get the job done, 
though sometimes there may be confusion between those who understand 
parsing at a deep level and those who don't. I would rather have 
support for TO [a | b], and other rules, even at the cost of them 
having lower performance, versus people not being able to do the 
job at all. In docs, we can note the tradeoffs, and people can optimize 
if necessary.

Hi Doc, congratulations for this new landmark. As the hello.apk generated 
in the past from Red/System was not running for my Galaxy tab 10.1 
was not running, I expected the new apk release not running too and 
it is effectively not running here opn this machine, even  if I upgraded 
to Android 4.0.4 recently - so the problem is located under the Android 
level - as I had expected it too. May be the op cpodes generated 
are not the ones expected on my machine - that is they are not currently 
compatioble with the ones you generated - but I have no time to test 
it. this was just to keep you informed so others know this too... 
Don't bother with this case as I plan to get another Android device 
in the next few months to compare the compatibility of the product. 
Probably the CPU codes are not athe level you deliver them (ARM v5 
if I remember correctly ?)  Best regards.

@james_nak : this is exactly what I get on my Galaxy tab 10.1 and 
I suspected it was not correctly executing since I doubt it is doing 
what is expected - even if I don't really know about the app !

@Arnold and Pekr : What is the current behaviour of the Hello.apk 
? I thought it was displaying some welcome msg and then askin for 
some input before disappearing gracefully. Now on my machine a while 
screen is displayed with a "Hello" as its window name and nothing 
else is going on.... For the previous Red/System Hello, something 
almost similar was going on too. So it's not for the Red part fault 
but it is due to the lower layer ... I knew this but I can't diagnose 
what ios coming myself as I'm missing some vital knowlwdge here to 
be really helpful to debug anything ... on my own - sorry for having 
acquired some product in the first pioneers just to test how this 
kind of product was running on Android. I required some Flash and 
my Apple products just could'nt do it - but my tablet Android tablet 
was much slower on display than my iDevices. Hope that under Red 
and Red/System there will be some products running at full speed 
- if not I plan to let it go at a real bargain price very soon ... 
to get some more powerful device ASAP.

This is what you should get when running hello.apk: http://static.red-lang.org/hello-droid.png

Looping is a good idea to get better timing accuracy

To get zeroed memory, you can use MAKE in my C library binding

I usually get zero-filled memory in Red/System, too, but it's not 
guaranteed

About odd, this solution managed to get all odd number from the even 
ones. Your solution is way more elegant, better fitting the language.

Base-1 Base-0, my personal view on this, it is the programmers choice 
on the level of the source code. What happens beneath the surface 
is compiler/linker sh*t. As a programmer and a human being I start 
to count at 1. 0 is not the new number 1 nor is 1 the new number 
2 etc. It is only an addressing issue, compare to the post. Houses 
in the street are numbered from 1 up to N. The first address a computer 
has in an array is the all 0 address, which is the first "pidgeon-hole" 
to be used. The computer doesn't know 0 as we understand it. Well 
you know all about it.

OTOH, you can always use pointer arithmetics to get a 0-base indexing 
model.

The register storage class in C is just an advice from the programmer 
to the compiler. The compiler always needs to make the best use of 
the available registers. Your variables may or may not be stored 
in them, and if you request them, you may or may not get them

@Kaj, no problem, and Peter came to the rescue. Amazing even with 
a community this small, these things get solved in such a small timeframe.

It is just slightly different. The possibility to go back to the 
first element of the array or store that address. :(ran_arr_buf/1) 
would make it a lot easier. 

I already had a lot of help from Peter on this (thumbs up!) and I 
made good progress by now.

I get the pointer of the array and I can go up and down  using + 
and -, this works great, and the pointer is going along with it then 
and I suspect that if I do 
ptr: ran_arr_buf 
and I progress ran_arr_buf by 1 that I progress ptr too.

I now kinda solved it by using an additional variable. When I reach 
a 100, I subtract 100 from the array ran_array_buf to go back. 

Tonight and tomorrow I have some time to clean up my code and I can 
experiment some more. 

It is proven it can be done, but keeping the extra variable is surely 
slowing down compared to C's pure pointer solution.

@XieQ you subtract 1 first and then add it back? All indices get 
shifted 1, including the last one. In loops in C it is i.e. j < N 
and in R/S it will be j <= N. 
You meant curiosity not curiously.

We, no I, limited myself to keep as close to the original as possible. 
Also because of the obfusction factor of the source. I believe much 
of the construction could be made more like in the REBOL way of doing 
things. A C program just is not a Red/System program. My goal was 
to get a working program reproducing the same result in the shortest 
time. Because I had little idea what the original program did because 
it is complicating things on purpose this was the way to do it. Now 
based on this useable program it can be made more Red/REBOL-like 
step by step.

I do feel for you, for indeed a lot of stuff out there is C or 0-based 
and it brings its problems along, but the next step in bringing Red/System 
to 0-based is having Red being 0-based as well?

[...] the next step in bringing Red/System to 0-based is having Red 
being 0-based as well?


No, it's not directly related. Implementing low-level algorithms 
that require working with index 0 is not the common usage of Red. 
Also, the +/-1 offset required in such case has no noticeable performance 
impact in a Red program while in Red/System, in a tight nested loop, 
the impact could be significant.


The most important part in considering a 0-based indexing system 
for Red/System is mainly helping the user and avoiding common programming 
errors (even I get caught by it from time to time, but it's probably 
due to my strong C background).

When I run it, I get the following error:

*** Error: word has no value!
unset

I know that Doc says Red isn't ready for general use yet, but I was 
wondering if maybe there were some resources so I could get started 
getting up to speed on it.  When I started learning Rebol, it was 
probably even less complete.

Though if as-binary is not defined, you would definitely get a compilation 
error.

Do you get any output from the print statements ?

The example is not complete. How do you get more than one value?

If I change the line


 print-line im1 ;as-integer ((img1/r / 3) + (img1/g / 3) + (img1/b 
 / 3))

to


 print-line as-integer ((img1/r / 3) + (img1/g / 3) + (img1/b / 3))

I get the expected output.

Barely started, gone to see "Man of Steel" yesterday night to get 
some inspiration. ;-)

Arnold: it seems you didn't get that Red and Red/System are two different 
languages. As they are living in different abtraction layers, you 
can't expect to directly include code from one in the other. There 
are special interfaces for that purpose, ROUTINE is the main one 
for calling Red/System code from Red. That doesn't mean that all 
your Red/System code needs to be in a routine, just the interfacing 
code. The rest can be in different libraries that you load into Red/System 
space using #include in #system or #system-global directives. Including 
Red/System code into Red directly is not possible, because, these 
are two different languages. So you need to wrap your Red/System 
code (and Red/System includes) into a #system* directive.

kaj, can you help me get R3 sources compiling?

In the meantime, appreciating all thee help really, I cannot still 
make choclats from the routine and #system* examples given. Kaj's 
from friday and Docs example from 11 may and explanation from Sat 
5:11/13. 

I now understand that the way I did things the process includes my 
Red/System source into my Red code and than compiling starts on the 
whole thing leading to the error I get. What my intention is, is 
not done, namely leaving Red/System code to be Red/System code and 
place this within the Red/System code generated from the Red compilation.

What I think I also understand is that in order for the Red compilation 
to know a function is not found in the Red source because it is not 
know at that time, because it is defined in the Red/System source 
there should be some action as to make it known. That the blancs 
will be filled in at a later stage.

So first I include a reds source in my Red program. 
#system-global [#include random-taocp.reds
;-- and now this?
#export [random-taocp/ran_start
random-taocp/ran_arr_next] ;-- + all my functions needed
] ;-- and close the block of system-global

In this Red/System code i use a context and functions within that 
context.

I want to use a function from the Red/System code so I make a ROUTINE 
in my red source and from this routine I call my Red/System function

get-random: routine [n [integer!] return: [integer!]][ random-taocp/ran_arr_next 
] ;-- don't need the input here strictly speeking
Is this in the right direction now? Thanks.

Thanks. The right position for the menu is a bit annoying, but I 
guess we'll get used to it...Still I prefer the previous layout.

OK.  That's just weird.  With the following code snippet:

	print-line [file1 " " length? file1]
	append-string file1 "/img00.bin"
	print-line [file1 " " length? file1]

We get these results on Linux-ARM:

	 36process/2013-06-29-20-18-55.h264
	/img00.bin 4613-06-29-20-18-55.h264

With the updated ANSI.reds, I get the following error when compiling 
now:


*** Compilation Error: argument type mismatch on calling: copy-string
*** expected: [integer!], found: [c-string!]
*** in file: %motion-detect.reds
*** at line: 47
*** near: [
    append-string file1 first-line
    file3: as c-string! allocate 128
]

Now I get this beautiful output:

¢÷¶¢÷¶ÿÿÿÿð£÷¶ð£÷¶ 20
¢÷¶¢÷¶ÿÿÿÿð£÷¶ð£÷¶/img00.bin 30

¢÷¶¢÷¶/img00out.bin

*** Runtime Error 1: access violation
*** at: B6EC5C0Ch

Here on Intel Linux I get:

I love the feeling that I get when I see my software working!  Especially 
something I've been struggling with for days/weeks/months.

My original prototype written in R2 was started 3-Aug-2012 and finished 
9-Sep-2012.  It's taken this long to get it running on the Pi natively.

I've found a way around it for now, but I've had to make some concessions 
that I'm not very happy with.  My goal is to still get my hands on 
those Broadcom specs so I can get better performance and flexibility.

Another thing I've never tried in Red/System and can't seem to get 
to work:

	min-pixel-area-text: make-c-string 16

 min-pixel-area-text: read-file "config/motion-trigger-min-pixel-area.txt"
	print-line ["Minimum Pixel Area = " min-pixel-area-text]
	min-pixel-area: as-integer min-pixel-area-text
	print-line ["Minimum Pixel Area = " min-pixel-area]

Output:

	Minimum Pixel Area = 1
	Minimum Pixel Area = 3358672

btw - my brother ordered 3x Arduino kit for our friends, and for 
me he ordered BeagleBone Black. So I will see, if I can get Red programs 
running on it :-)

In the case of read-string you get a c-string!, so you can get the 
size with LENGTH?. For read-file-binary that's not possible, so you 
pass a pointer to an integer! to be informed about the read size

Basically, we have a minifilter driver in Red/System that can be 
installed through an INF file, but when started (using `sc start`) 
we get either error 1058 or error 2 (File not found).

Sadly, I can't get any information about the driver out of Verifier 
or ProcMon

I am trying to learn Red/System but I have a strange result. When 
I enter this code all works fine, the input line is printed correctly:

#import [
	LIBC-File cdecl [
		get-line: "gets" [
			line	[c-string!]
			return:	[c-string!]
		]
	]
]

foo: ""
get-line foo            ; when run I enter: this is a test
print newline
print foo                  ; Correctly outputs: this is a test


but if I do this;

foo: ""
boo: ""
get-line foo          ; when run I enter: this is a test
boo: foo
print newline
print boo

then I get             ; "thisX @"

or if I enter: hello
it prints out: hellX @


It seems that something in the process of binding foo to boo is messing 
up, but I have no clue what it might be.
Any ideas?

Function-test: it's a test that rely on unimplemeted feature that 
cause the crash, it should be disabled until  we get that supported.

PDB Paul if you can get me all the required documentation, I'll be 
glad to add PDB generation to Red toolchain.

Does look to be a bit closely guarded but here are some links that 
may get you going for PDB output  -> http://ccimetadata.codeplex.com/wiki/search?tab=Home&SearchText=pdb

As for news channels - if there is anything new, and my time and 
skills permit, I do post. It is a pity, it is not reposted to your 
blog, it looks really dated with latest 0.3.2 Repl release :-( I 
find it a bad strategy, the project seems a bit stalled, at least 
Git get propagated there ....

If you think about the Twitter plugins on Blogger, they seem all 
dead. Anyway, I would be glad to get rid of Blogger and switch to 
something else, Blogger is horribly bad and outdated.

I'm travelling to the capital to get my plane tomorrow morning for 
Montreal (wih a short stop in Paris).

debugging driver priority

 Not sure if you're mixing things here or not. First PDB has nothing 
 to do with drivers, it's a general-debugging help for Red and Red/System. 
 Second, I never said that drivers or PDB support was prioritary. 
 If I worked on adding driver support for Windows, it was just to 
 help Kaj and Bo use Red in their project, nothing else. The priorities 
 are clear, but I won't be able to resume on them until I get back 
 from Montréal.

Also, once the encapped version will be done for all supported platforms, 
we need to set up a continuous integration chain, with tests and 
builds automated. That will take some time to get done properly, 
so better start now.

Yes, it's a great step. I think the console is important as well, 
so once I get some other things done, we will talk about doc extraction 
and mezzanines in support of that.

What's the easiest way to try Red/System? I see do/system and #system 
[ ... ] suggestions in the docs:
http://static.red-lang.org/red-system-specs.html#section-17

, but I don't seem to get it to work.

Finally back home, need to upgrade my PC with more RAM and better 
wifi adapter tomorrow, then I'll get back to coding...(I really miss 
coding these last days)

If you need the GTK DLLs, you can get them from there:


http://red.esperconsultancy.nl/Red-test/zip/Red%28System%29+Testing-6a2f49701652c61f.zip?uuid=6a2f49701652c61f108f0f9259827b38d35f6dda

@Doc, Ah yes indeed the download.r script! I need to try to get that 
working here together with fossil.

@amacleod, your question has been answered to your satisfaction regarding 
10:33. My previous answer was my try to give some extra info on the 
whereabouts of the files that Kaj provided,as he has been away for 
an hour or so. At 10:50 I had not received the posts from 10:05 and 
later.

I managed to get the fossildownload from the download.r script running, 
unfortunately everything ended in the downloads folder where the 
script was still placed. I reran the script from the folder I wanted 
the repositories to land. I copied the terminal information output 
to a text document for there are several passwords created for the 
repos and I had not yet time to store them properly..

I also want to get rid of the REBOL dependency, because there are 
new Red users who don't have REBOL installed. Same thing, but currently 
I have to use REBOL for the script

Do we have a Fossil group? If not, we should, so this knowledge and 
chat doesn't get lost.

In any case, that's the difference between Oldes' link posted before 
and your previous "get download.r from http://red.esperconsultancy.nl/Red-test/dir?ci=tip".
Oldes' link doesn't require you to interact with Github's UI, your 
link requires one to interact with Fossil's UI.

After that the xor with this different signed number get rid of the 
sign. 

Another little thing is the adding of the count/sequence number is 
different when added to a positive/negative number.

Getting the exact same result is important to me. While this version 
is good enough to use as random for throwing dice in a game of Yahtzee, 
distribution of randoms in longer term could be more predictable 
than with the "official" version, which would be a bad thing when 
used in encrypting.

FYI, I've been mostly offline these last days as a friend of mine 
came to visit me from Paris. Also, that's the moment my Windows chose 
to die, not sure if it was triggered by a hardware issue or not. 
So, I'm now in the process of setting up a new system, moving to 
64-bit and bigger disks. I hope to be able to get all my tools back 
by tomorrow, so I'll be able to start committing changes again.

Sorry for the hardware problem Doc. You can blame me. I sometimes 
think "How can I get Doc to write a Red OS...?"

I'm trying this small Rebol 3 sample code under Red console and I 
get 3 load errors plus a real error at the end  - invalid char!. 
char ending delimiter " not found! unmatched ] closing bracket! word 
has no value.  Is it OK ?  Here is what I tried to enter : red>> 
 #"^(3B1)"     ; char as a hex encoded literal

It's used as my first step to get some code translation on the Perl 
Cookbook (pleac project ). the first exercises are about strings. 
I encoded the small snippets using Rebol 2 already and now I was 
testing the same code for Red and later I 'll attack the same for 
Rebol 3. I'll then submit in the REBOL SCHOOL  or another dedicated 
group this first trial for revision and correction. May be their 
introduction could aslo be revised to ttake into account Rebol and 
/or Red internals subtleties which I don't really master... yet!

But I might get it confused, so better wait for Doc or Kaj to appear 
:-)

I also get some ? instead of the chars that Word is displaying ! 
May be our american products can't display this correctly from the 
Win Console too ...

Is it the same for the other codes given in the Rebol 3 doc ? as 
for example when I type #"^(3B1)"     in the Red console, I get some 
errors too ...

when I type #
^(3B1)"     in the Red console, I get some errors too ..."

The console script for Red supports only ASCII input. :-)

I'm finishing installing the tools I need and migrating all my data 
from old disks, I should be able to get back to full coding tonight....finally.

Results I get: 
 myresult was: 1
 myresult is : 0.5
 myresult is : 1.3563418576693e+243

Typed in a simple func and that also crashes. 

-= Red Compiler =- 
Compiling /C/Cheyenne/www/_ahb472d1f5g6c38e.red ...
*** Syntax Error: Invalid Red program
*** line: 1
*** at: "incr: func ['n] [set n add get n 1]"

Hello MaxV: Congrats to your first R3GUI app! ;-) I have some questions/notes 
though:

1. Why one needs to download the two DLL files to get R3B running?? 
(not much user friendly IMO)


2. On your Blog page you say: "First of all there are some bugs, 
most of them depends on R3GUI, for example this one: https://github.com/angerangel/r3bazaar/issues/8"

I bet this is not related to R3GUI at all but more to your R3B build. 
The REQUEST-FILE works without any problems in our Saphirion build 
(and I think also the "official" Carl's build works well but haven't 
tried it). I tried to download and run your R3B binary and I can 
confirm the bug is related only to this version so it would be fair 
enough if you remove your R3GUI blaming from the blog entry if possible. 
I know R3GUi is not perfect so maybe you can just change the blame 
for some other which is really related to the framework. Or better 
feel free to ask any questions in RgGUI group here!

3. I've looked into the EDITOR function code and comparing to the 
R3 editor code (which is still twice as big as the R3GUI version 
- but I don't know if they match the features though) the R3GUI code 
looks much cleaner and abstracted that the R2 style even if you are 
not expereienced writing R3GUI apps. Some notes:


3.1 I'm curious why are you accessing the internal AREA style value 
like face/names/tb or aa/names/tb/state/value? Is that for some reason? 
Why you don't use the AREA directly like:
do-actor/style face 'on-key arg 'area
instead of
do-actor/style face/names/tb 'on-key arg 'text-box

or

write (to-file AA-INFO/OPTIONS/text-edit) get-face aa


write (to-file AA-INFO/OPTIONS/text-edit) aa/names/tb/state/value 


3.2 There is "classic" but anoying bug. If you open file requester 
and close it without selecting a file the editor errors out. (but 
you probably already noticed)


3.3 Would be great if you add keyboard shortcuts. It's easy to add 
them. See the layouts-15.r3 file in R3GUI Saphirion package as an 
example.


3.4 Maybe you could try to write your first R3GUI style - MENU It 
would be handy in the editor(and also in other apps) instead of the 
buttons on top.


Anyway, thanks for promoting R3 and R3GUI. I appreciate all your 
efforts!

Feed them a saturated fat diet ( from animal products such as milk, 
cheese, meat ) and they get the same illnesses

Carnivores can not get atherosclerosis .. feed them as much animal 
fat as you like.  Only herbivores get atherosclerosis when eating 
saturated fats of animal origin

Sure .. we can eat insects to get our B12

and like the great apes, we would get B12 from eating insects

fish get their omega 3 from plants

Another thing is that the classic SDL that's available everywhere, 
currently the 1.2.x series, is single-window. To get a proper R3 
host with multiple windows you need SDL 1.3, which is usable but 
is in a very stretched out development process, like R3. 1.3 has 
Android and iOS support, so you'd usually want that, anyway, but 
it's harder to get ready to download binaries for it, and I haven't 
tested it with my binding yet

So hard to get on other platforms and less supported PCs

Yes, the major three, Linux only if you have drivers for your hardware, 
and little chance to get on other platforms

I don't think you would gain anything by using SDL to get R3GUI faster. 
AFAIK SDL has no 2d graphics support...it's just low-level lib for 
handling the OpenGL or 2d framebuffer. There is no support for 2d 
vector graphics, font rendering etc. so you'll end with the same 
needs for the UI engine in the end.

As Pekr mentioned above, with the new R3 graphics code reorganization 
I'm working on it will be possible to even create a compositor based 
on SDL though if anyone is interested in doing that.

Reactors: I just packed everything on the docs dir we have as a start. 
So, yes, we need to sort it out, get rid of the old stuff etc. So 
feel free to delete it and send a pull-request.

Thanks for noting the blog update Petr. Nice to hear he's enjoying 
himself so much. Maybe we'll get him back into REBOL when he sees 
that he can build Roku stuff in Red.

I don't think it's contradictory. He focuses deeply on one thing 
at a time, and everything else is lucky to get any time at all. It's 
just that now, Roku is his focus.

Well, I have mixed feelings ... Carl simply gave up on Rebol and 
its message imo ... felt strange: " I'm no longer in the mode of 
convincing the world about Rebol. I've learned a lot over the last 
couple years in the trenches." ..... later .... "So, I know really 
well now that Rebol is not for every developer.... but it would get 
more interest if R3+GUI was easy to download an get running on a 
variety of those devices on your list."

I don't know, what do you mean? Full story of what? Well, maybe I 
will say it arrogantly - but Carl faced the reality we all were facing 
in our companies - if your tool does not fit the company's toolset, 
you might be tolerated, if it is open sourced or free. I remember 
my issues with my boss, trying to convince him why should I buy /Command 
to get access to shell and ODBC, if other free tools can do it. And 
that was it - REBOL lived in isolation and Carl, joining Roku, found 
out about the outer world working under different conditions of reality 
:-)

I have following strategy to discuss - Carl always liked to work 
on HW too - Amiga, Viscorp set-top-box. Now he is with Roku, gaining 
important experience. Now let's say Roku goes under, some investor 
appears, Carl buys AmigaIP and we will get first Rebol/Amiga device 
out :-)

If you want real power for a little more ($89), get this:

http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php


Quad-core 1.7GHz Arm-A9 processor, 2GB on-board RAM, 10/100 Ethernet, 
2xUSB2.0 ports, Micro HDMI, Micro SD card slot, hardware audio codec, 
run Android 4.x or Ubuntu 12.10

Pretty hot specs for the price!

I've hidden several nine year old desktops under my desk. :-) If 
you get the small desktop models, they're not that big. And with 
those boards, you have loose boards, loose power supplies and lots 
of cables to hide

For such mobile systems, I think it would be better to use those 
new mini PCs inside a USB stick. They're very similar to a Raspberry, 
you get them in a case, and they can feed off a monitor

If it's the r3-osx file from:
http://development.saphirion.com/experimental/

, then I get the following on OS X 10.7.5:

504 ~/r3$ ./r3-osx 
Illegal instruction: 4

Pekr, I'll try to get a response from Robert, as he decides which 
way to go.

Doc: basically yes. Currently only the zipalign is used in the encapppign 
process since it is small cli based exe but we might get rid of it 
eventually as well if there is any license collision (but I guess 
not)

Thanks to all who helped to get the new version out on github.

Guys, this is great news! My first reaction was to get it posted 
on the MSDN site, but I'm not sure that reducing the need for Microsoft 
tools would be viewed as a positive thing from their point of view. 
It should be, though, since simplifying Windows driver development 
leads to more peripherals/accessories being integrated with the OS. 
It's a win for everyone (well, I guess not for the rabid anti-MS 
crowd). Between this and the similarly simple mobile dev that's coming, 
Red and R/S will be unbeatable.

or you can use the build.r3 do get on-file version

If counting just the votes for/against naming the IEEE 754 binary 
floating point datatype as float! and adding BrianH as one who prefers 
the decimal! name for backward compatibility reasons (he perceives 
a datatype name to be influencing language syntax in a big way) I 
am currently getting:


For float! name: Ladislav, Henrik, Andreas, Gregg, Robert, Doc, Rebolek, 
Endo
For decimal! name: BrianH

I would like to get more votes on this, though.