AltME groups: search

Boring things like Microsoft Exchange. They are well known, and work 
-- or at least, the bugs get fixed, eventually.

That group will likely get tired of Exchange over time, so an after-sell 
is always possible.

Thanks. i try my best, but Altme and IOS are minority products, so 
they've got to be better than good to get to a shortlist..
Altme has at least three ways of losing data.

And having to rename the world every time there is a server crash 
doesn't make this group a useful reference site.

Interesting...  When did the WorldMaster dividers get updated?  I've 
had AltME set to use WorldMaster dividers but it only showed All 
Users and All Groups.  I just switched to No Dividers and back to 
WorldMaster.  Now all the dividers are there...

you won't get much, even if we go 50-50

Hm...  Sure nuff, AltME isn't updating its local copy of the WorldMaster 
dividers.  I can switch my divider selection to get it to update 
though...

Does this mean I can get to that long lost marketing message on the 
old rebol world?

OK, so I'm trying Altme once again ... and here are two ideas which 
might make altme even better
- get a special notice on private messages
- possibility to add a "personal homepage" to a user account

About notice on private messages, we have alerts, that pop up a window. 
And if you use dividers, the "All Users" dividers will turn red, 
when you get a private message. So there's the notice, you asked 
for.

Feature Request:  I'd like a one button push or automtated/timed 
solution to bring up the "Getting Started Window" OR remove focus 
from all groups.  Why?  If you aren't actually using AltME (it's 
running in the background), and you get new messages, the messages 
in the group you are currently 'in' aren't highlighted as new.  Which 
can make it confusing when the tool tells you a new message has been 
received, but you don't see a hightlight on any group (and don't 
check the time on the messages in the 'current' group).

Knock your socks off?  No, perhaps just get rid of a lot of deep 
bugs completely, and enable us to move on to the next stage (applets, 
and applets written by people other than us).

things like automated notifications and such are very handy when 
tracking procedures which are automated by computers.  This usually 
gets done in mails, but is rapidly ineffective, as people get inundated 
by mails...

Some more ideas:

write altme://user:[pass-:-Rebol3]/!AltME/ "message"

Resolved of the first url here to the second url
by the Rebol3 world (local distribution):

altme://user:[pass-:-Rebol3]/!AltME/239
is resolved to:
altme://user:[pass-:-Rebol3]/151/239

151 is the set-file number for the !AltME group, and
239 is the message id.

read altme://user:[pass-:-Rebol3]/!AltME
;== [set-number 151 first-available-message 1 last-message 242]


So it returns some group info, not the content of all the messages 
!

To get a message:

read altme://user:[pass-:-Rebol3]/!AltME/239

;== [(date) 9 (colour) [font [fg 0.0.0 bg 240.240.240]] "We are working 
towards that."]

To find a user name by the set-number:

read altme://user:[pass-:-Rebol3]/9

;== ["Reichart" [reichart-:-safeworlds-:-com] (membership) (dates etc..)]

Well, write does not have to be implemented. But we will cross the 
security bridge when we get to it.

I still argue the hardware failure has nothing to do wtih AltME. 
 Since a double blind test shows all software fails this same test.

As to security, that is easy, don't have a guest account.


This "world" is like a Hostel.  People come and go, and if someone 
wants to come in and burn the books one night, they can.


There is no level of security that will stop this.  If I get your 
right password I can destroy your credit rating, blah blah blah.

None of this has anything to do with AltME.


However, we could add more locks to more doors, and that is a different 
issue.  We would thus be changing the philosophy here, which I'm 
open to, but it still needs to be clear this is a different issue 
than is be ascribed to AltME.

Yeah, this happens to me too sometimes.  Although I use Word a clipboard 
(spell checking).  Sometimes I grab EVERYTHING and just paste somehere. 
 I have had to get in the habit of NOT hitting send anywhere (not 
just here, but o the web as a whole).

There are soooooooooooooo many subtle issues with the web.  I'm playing 
with an internet camera right now, I get such odd results from it.

OK, I know we've covered this before but how do I remove myself from 
a group (Christianity in this case). This is what I tried:

1. Right click the group

2. Click on my username on the right hand side and observe it move 
to the left ... so far so good

3. Click save and get a dialog that says, "You must include yourself 
in the group."

4. Cancel to dismiss the dialog (I figure "Delete" is asking for 
trouble at this stage)  ;)

???

Has anyone had any problems with getting Altme working thru a proxy?

I go out of town once a month, and have to use a squid proxy.  I 
can get IE, Firefox, and one of my own rebol apps to work thru the 
proxy, but not AltME.

I get the proxy ip address, type and port appear on the proxy server 
field.

cant get altme running on redhat v9.x ... is that normal?

I don't think that restricting guest would be a good thing, i got 
in because of this community and the fact that i can get help from 
any of the gurus here ( yes it is nice to know who you are talking 
to).  But some people need reassurance  if they have a problem ( 
rebol /core /view /AltME etc. ) that someone will be able to help

1) FAST Message scroll-list with 'streaming' so I can browse/search 
in all messages in a group on the disk without need to setup the 
buffer in preferences and loose the performace and memory. (Get rid 
of the "Message cannot be shown. See Settings panel to allow older 
messages (Limit)." requester)

I think of communication software a little differently (in general), 
so I will share this.  

Read states

 (like the Red we are talking about) are a very interesting issue. 
  


Most computer software does a very poor job of replicating empirical 
or visceral conversations.  Email for example has a method of describing 
the "direction" you are speaking.  TO: Bob, CC: Carry.  Where the 
TO: indicates you are speaking directly to Bob, and that Carry is 
standing somewhere to the left or right of you.  BCC is someone hiding 
behind you. 


Email could have an interface where you first pick the people in 
the "room." And then use something like a 2D interface to move the 
listeners around a symbolic version of you.  This would be both silly, 
time consuming, and somewhat confusing, but you get the point.


What you have read and what you have not read though has a similar 
analogy.   There are thousands of sub states and markers people use 
to sort things they have read, will read, need to read again, need 
to respond to, etc.


In Box, Out Box, Papers upside down, putting papers you need to sign 
under your car keys on the floor in front of the door leading to 
the car, etc.


I have one friend who re-wrote some open source email program to 
have some huge number of states and then some simple filters.  It 
works VERY WELL, if you know his system.  He never forgets anything.


So the current model AltME has (right now) is a very simple interface. 
 Tantimount to "Have I ever seen this before."


We are playing with some other models in Qtask, which may get adopted 
into AltME.  I'm working on a system I call Venn Chat.  Some features 
include:

Have I read this before? (like AltME)
Mark this:  

Follow up (add to a list of messages you want to think about more)
Note (All should read this when they come into the group)
All Must Read (converts it into an AltME-like alert)


Convert to a task (and keep the context of the chat in place, this 
is opens up a whole other area)
Branch (something like forum threading)
Re-file (move from one group to another)

Re-post (copy to another group, at the same time, similar to branch).
Trigger (tell me when someone has finally read this).
Status (tell me who has read this so far).
Attach (files, links, etc)

1. 	A switch to turn off notification about new messages. On XP, 
the minimized window's icon blinks for every new message, which can 
become a little bit annoying.


2. 	A switch to 'subscribe' only selected groups - in a sense of 
"Only mark group with new messages if subscribed". 

 Otherwise, get message silently but don't mark group red for having 
 unread messages.


3. 	A "newer than new" feature: Whilst AltME is online and one is 
working in another app, inform (in a popup window or alike) when 
one returns to it: "New messages in the following groups:" 

 which can easily be clicked away if none of the groups are of special 
 interest.

Reichart, I like your ideas.

I would guess that one of the goals should be to pick a 'realm of 
inclusiveness' (I don't know what else to call it).

i.e. If AltMe is suppose to be fashioned as a message-logger then 
these 'new messages' should be flagged until read.

However, if AltMe is suppose to be fashioned as a meeting-place then 
maybe 'new messages' should only be flagged after you log in.


Now, don't get me wrong here.. I am not saying that messages shouldn't 
show up at all, I am stating that their container wouldn't be flagged 
(red).

Tomc, thanks! Now, if I had kown this before ... Guess I'll never 
get really used to Windows.

Dotting to the dot group may resync some public groups.

In addition, dotting to yourself may resync some  private messages 
to you.
Doing both is not guaranteed to get you all missing messages.

Need a paging feature whereby we can click on a persons name and 
have it play a wav file on their computer to get their attention 
and flash.

We have a small private world and guess what? We deleted the master. 
Now we can't change anything. Is there any way to get the master 
back?

Ah, I get it.

Must be Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays.

you can get this data, but you have to sort of hack it.  Go search 
your drive for info you KNOW is in your checklist.

It is pretty simple from thier.

Yup, we need SDK.  for OSX

As to the next update, we are holding it this time to get a bunch 
of stuff done.  It is more efficient.

I think we may have different definitions of efficient.

To me, using a bit of software as buggy as Altme is not efficient 
- which is why I've never felt able to recommend it as groupware 
(see earlier dicussion).

I've been joining in with the REBOLn worlds because it is useful, 
though painful at times.

The problem, of course, isn't the bugs. It's the rate at which they 
get fixed.

that Gues problems was still NOT adressed! No clear explanation anywhere 
on web of how to get here! I will eventually fix it myself - making 
some how-to-get-on-altme group and making it web visible .... :-)

True, but can't you add what you need via apt-get or the GUI?  think 
the GUI is called "Adept" or just "Package Manager"

exactly - I know Carl talks about principles ... but why to loose 
your time with fighting to get things stripped down to CD? I would 
go and bug DVD drive ....

I think part of the "mess" of OSS is the perception that it is a 
single movement, a unified army of developers. That is completely 
wrong, even though some of the louder proponents of open source work 
hard to make you believe exactly that. Even folks who understand 
the truth have their perceptions colored by all the from the Eric 
Raymonds and Richard Stallmans of the world. Then they wonder how 
this OSS army is going to take over the world when they can't get 
their act together and produce easily usable apps written in clear 
code. Individual developers and teams do all the time, but that's 
hardly an army.

I think i donit see anything because i dont have any Xfd running..though 
it should be integrated wiith the latest X11 .. mmm.. let me fight 
on this one a little.. Thank for the HINT.. ill let it know if it 
runs (Must get this to work..;-)

Cyphre..are those bitstream fonts you are using? I dont seem to get 
ttf working or ANY other font working in my linux view version beside 
the default fonts...

Any idea if it's possible to get anti-aliased fonts with AltMe beta 
or the Debian View build? Rebol is kinda standing out in a bad way 
on my desktop right now.

is that really so difficult to get it right? Maybe RT could contract 
some linux developer to clear out how to properly do such things 
...

and now we have freedesktop.org and other standards organizations. 
I think basically it's like shoveling crap uphill. I wonder if it 
will get anywhere.

it sucks because those with the vision can only do so much on their 
time.  although everyone is happy to say free things are great, free 
things aren't worth any $$ and thus, you get none to feed your children 
when you work on them.

Funding comes from companies, who all want some influence for it, 
so you get a bazaar model

ok...i am a total newbie here.  i am trying to get rebol .r scripts 
to run on a Mandrake linux box, but i just cannot get them to run. 
 they basically only work as text documents.  am i missing something? 
 i installed rebol view, which as i understand it installs core also. 
 i want to be able to doulble-click the .r file and have it run. 
 it works in windows.  thanks in advance.

I love all those distro an RPM madness to just get an update to one 
package on RH... mabe someone can help. I'm running a rather old 
RH 7.2 (but it works good) and now need to update the Perl package. 
I downloaded the RRM of it and of course it has zillions of dependencies.

I once asked this in Feb, but I can't upgrade my system at the moment. 
So, I somehow need to get this installed.

Debian is so easy about this: apt-get update, apt-get upgrade and 
you are done.

now I get following in browser:


** Access Error: Cannot open /home/web/jablunkovsko.cz/sqlite.log 
** Where: connect ** Near: write/append/lines join log-path %sqlite.log 
reform

Hmm, I allowed for user apache to log in, I can get to each directory, 
but "cd db" returns "permission denied" - why it is so?

drwxr-sr-x  2 jablunkovsko jabladm  4096 Jan 11  2005 about
drwxr-sr-x  4 jablunkovsko jabladm  4096 Aug  7 16:04 akce
drwxr-sr-x  3 jablunkovsko jabladm  4096 Jul  3 20:03 aktuality
drwxr-xr-x  2 jablunkovsko jabladm  4096 Aug  6 19:01 cgi-bin
drwxr-sr-x  3 jablunkovsko jabladm  4096 Nov  2  2005 COD
drwxr-sr-x  5 jablunkovsko jabladm  4096 Jul  3 20:04 cyklo
drwxr-sr-x  2 jablunkovsko jabladm  4096 Aug  2 00:04 data
drw-rw-rw-  2 jablunkovsko jabladm  4096 Aug  7 14:29 db
drwxr-sr-x  4 jablunkovsko jabladm  4096 Jul  3 20:05 fotogalerie

btw - what is the difference in "s" and "S"? I don't remember how 
those "s" got in there. Are those user/grup id? If I set such manually, 
I get "S", not "s".

yes the entire path of dirs to your target  need to be executable 
to get there

sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
but its ugly, i usually need several tries.
keep a backup of /etc/X11/xorg.conf .

May also work to get that file from another distro, eg that mephis, 
and overwrite it. the resolution-stuff  etc is in that file.

I just installed Ubuntu (dual-boot on my laptop) and it seems to 
work fine for everything, even AltME - But I can't seem to get Rebol 
to even start up.

I set up a connection to MySQL from linux using MyODBC drivers back 
in 2002.  I'm sure if you wanted to you could get an ODBC set up 
running that would allow you to use Firebird from Linux.

I managed to get a Suse livePC running .. and Rebol runs.

i love those fancy bars from winamp or wmp how they do that ? how 
they get the khz and hz and all that from the wav file ? suposing 
it is a wav ... (raw or pcm)

first comes faster CPUs :-) What about producing language extension? 
Ah, we did not get any yet, sorry, I forgot, it is long time we were 
promissed to get those ;-) Hmm, but what about external library calls? 
Could do the trick, no? If you use gcc, you should be able to compile 
for main platforms at least ...

switch-range: func [number blk][
	foreach [rfrom rto action] blk [
		if not number? rfrom [rfrom: get rfrom]
		if not number? rto [rto: get rto]
		if all [number >= rfrom number < rto][return do action]
	]
]

uploaded. if you get a new version with a new screenshot, you can 
upload it yourself, but you need an account to upload images... otherwise 
throw the link in the wikibook group

Now that's interesting ... 

if I paste your example into a console, I get a very short high beep

if I paste it into a script and do the script, I get a math error! 
(Math or number overflow)

Btw, I get different values, and the stereo version plays a sound 
for me

I got the data using a free MSX emulator (openMSX). The music come 
from the game "Auf wiedersehen Monty".

You can use a "dump PSG" functionality in openMSX to get the raw 
data (values of the registers of the PSG).

You can find lot of roms (games) for the msx wich contain cool musics 
and effects for the AY PSG on www.planetemu.net

Beware, these roms are not freeware even if you can download them 
freely.


Another way (i have not tried), is to use VortexTracker at http://bulba.at.kz/
(see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYdIqcqgkPMfor a demo)

wich is well designed to compose an manipulate raw data for the AY-* 
PSG.
I think many samples are given too.

I read that you could start it from teh command line and get it save 
in .wav but I could not get it to work..


THere are a lot of annyoing things about vista...but I have it on 
my wife's laptop and I'm forced to use it now and again..

The max amplitude, you find, depends on how long you play the sound, 
doesn't it? If you play it long enough, you might get max for each 
of the sin added together, which is 3.

Ok. So moslty imperative programming languages. To get the gist of 
rebol I think you need to study a bit of the functional approach.

I will recommend you read the PLT book, or the CTM Book. This introduce 
a lot of the concepts present in rebol, and you can get a sense on 
how to programm with series (lists), how to use func are as natural 
as integers, and how to drive your programs around the data structures, 
and not around the memory management.

The part of Logo that works is turtle graphics in Draw.   Students 
get quick results.  So they experiement and learn.  See Gregg's Logo 
talk...where REBOL needs more "turtles"

MY-WORD  is a symbol and get evualted to the value inmediately.

:MY-WORD (notice the colon again) is the another way to access the 
value imagine it to be get the value, it is useful to get values 
that will cause evaulation like functions.

Difference between symbol and variable: A symbol can be of any type 
and does not get declared. Period. Is that correct?

If that value is a "hot" one (like a function!) then the get-word 
syntax  (:word)  will prevent the evaluation whilst still allowing 
you to get the value.

Rebol is a decendant of Lisp the first functional programming language. 
So understanding this it will help you get the gist of rebol.

>> source send   ;you can get the source code of a function by using 
the source command.  Documentation is built-in.

part of my jog nowadays is get into XML, XSLT and that stuff ... 
we just upgraded SAP, and it generates some docs for us, which are 
ok in IE, not in FF (totally screwed) and on friday I visit IBM to 
see XForms and I will ask those guys, if it makes sense to go that 
route ... it seems like going to hell ... :-)

denismx, when I've taught REBOL to people, even people who are already 
familiar with other programming languages, it has been helpful to 
make the distinction between the REBOL language and the dialect engines.


REBOL is really a data model and related syntax, and a bundle of 
library functions that manipulate data in this model. A dialect is 
really a semantic model for interpreting this data, like what people 
think of as a language in real life. A dialect engine is a set of 
library functions that think of the data in the same way - I know 
this sounds anthropomorphic, but it makes it easier to explain REBOL 
if you think of the different dialect engines as entities that are 
acting on a set of commands you are giving them. You can even use 
role playing to demonstrate this, having one of your students act 
out the part. It also helps to name each of these models after the 
main function that implements them - otherwise people might not get 
the distinction between them and REBOL as a whole.


There are some functions that only deal with the REBOL data model 
and don't really do anything with the data other than translate it 
from or to some concrete syntax. It is best to group these functions 
by the syntax they implement - the group that implements what people 
normally think of as the REBOL syntax is LOAD, SAVE and MOLD.


When teaching REBOL dialects I usually start with what I call the 
DO engine, what people normally think of as the REBOL language. DO 
is a stack machine like Forth, but it uses a prefix syntax to make 
it easier to use (by making DO dialect code more resemble that in 
other programming languages). DO also does a simple swapping hack 
to implement inline operators, which you will have to demonstrate 
so that your students will understand DO's operator precedence or 
lack thereof. DO always works on REBOL data: If you pass it a string 
or file that contains REBOL syntax code, DO will call LOAD to convert 
it to REBOL data - this is an important distinction to make so that 
your students can distinguish between the data and the processor 
of that data. There are many functions that depend on DO to interpret 
their blocks of "code", such as IF, WHILE, FOR, etc. It is important 
to note that these are just functions, not "syntax". DO's only syntax 
is the predefined operators that DO swaps (these are effectively 
keywords because of how the swap is implemented), the word/set-word/get-word 
difference, the interpretation of paths and the precedence of parens. 
Everything else is a function.


There is also the PARSE engine, a rule-based recursive-decent parser 
with limited backtracking, that implements three dialects (simple 
parse, string parse and block parse). These dialects actually have 
keywords, as well as an entirely different execution model. Also, 
there is the View engine, which implements the LAYOUT and DRAW dialects.


Refering to these engines as state machines isn't helpful, because 
the distinctions between their execution models, or whether they 
even have execution models, is important for distinguishing between 
them. You need to use the higher-level terms like stack machine, 
composition engine and such.

I hope this helps!

Well, I would read it like:

'b pointing to 4

'a pinting to the return value of (b: 4), which would be a direct 
pointer to 4

So you get 2 parallel pointers to 4, not 2 chained pointers.

I find its hard to get people to "grasp" REBOL.  in the sense that 
they we all just see a different syntax twist at first.

Before I go this is the shortest intro to scheme and functional programming 
that I had found. It will get you up to speed in this model in one 
day http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme.html

Ok, so here's my frequency table:
    6 compose 
    5 as-pair 
    5 func 
    4 do 
    3 show 
    2 all 
    2 copy 
    2 find 
    2 form 
    2 get 
    2 in 
    2 pick 
    2 print 
    2 to-image 
    2 use 
    1 * 
    1 + 
    1 - 
    1 <> 
    1 = 
    1 append 
    1 bind 
    1 center-face 
    1 change 
    1 clear 
    1 context 
    1 do-events 
    1 either 
    1 first 
    1 foreach 
    1 if 
    1 join 
    1 layout 
    1 load-thru 
    1 make 
    1 mold 
    1 object? 
    1 reduce 
    1 remold 
    1 remove-each 
    1 repeat 
    1 second 
    1 select 
    1 to-pair 
    1 to-path 
    1 view

47 if 
    35 all 
    17 func 
    14 find 
    13 in 
    13 not 
    13 print 
    12 do 
    12 either 
    12 get 
    10 = 
    10 next 
    9 clear 
    9 exit 
    9 insert 
    9 pick 
    8 compose 
    7 any 
    6 foreach 
    6 mold 
    6 tail? 
    5 - 
    5 as-pair 
    5 last 
    5 none? 
    5 object? 
    5 paren? 
    4 head 
    4 reduce 
    4 show 
    4 while 
    3 break 
    3 copy 
    3 remold 
    3 remove 
    3 same? 
    3 tail 
    3 use 
    2 * 
    2 + 
    2 <> 
    2 context 
    2 forall 
    2 form 
    2 make 
    2 prin 
    2 return 
    2 set 
    2 to-image 
    2 to-time 
    2 view

Such analysis as this also ignores the interesting ways that words 
are related in patterns of usage. (eg. [get in] is used quite often)

Anyway, I hope the above list can help to get a rough idea of which 
functions should be studied first.

I'll give a shot at sorting out all of rebol.org once I get basic 
capabilities going and report back here, when its done.

Example problems I would give my students to solve would look like 
(to be adjusted according to the native word set retained):


Using iteration, draw a 19 line isoceles triangle (concepts of looping 
not obvious for beginners, but essential to grasp early)


Find all prime numbers lower than a given one, using previously found 
primes in the process to speed up the search.


Given a list of adresses, get the files and identify which ones have 
a given information on them (elementary parsing)


... Things like that. Diversified enough to give a good feel of what 
programming can solve while gaining basic skills (data stores, interation, 
maybe recursivity, various control structures - not necessarily all 
of them, operators, native functions and user defined functions, 
input and output, ...)

Strings and blocks are both series, so first, next find etc work 
on both, but when you load you get a block and the units are values. 
When you read, you have a string and the units are characters.

i really wonder what happened to sentences, lost funding or something, 
 fate of non-opensourced projects that don't get funded i guess

I wanted to release liquid last week... I could have, but would not 
have been able to properly support the release itself and answer 
even basic questions.  so I am preparing more help around it, allowing 
people to get the basics by themselves... (I hope)

Hi Maxim, 
are there liquid pumps?

As an example, imagine a layout with 2 input values, and 2 outputvalues, 
which depend on both inputs, e.g. input 2 numbers, and get  product 
and sum.

Now if I change the value of 1 input field, the new value would flow 
to both output fields. As far as I understood liquid so far, I now 
need another way to notify those 2 output fields, that there are 
new values waiting. And they have to actively get the new data.

Now add a pump, which pumps the data into the system, so that dependent 
!plugs automatically are recalculated.

Is this possible now? What do you think about adding this?

Where did you get the formula for teh Help and close button: http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/steel/images/regraph/regraph-0-1-4-main.png

ok...i have briefly read the documentation on slim up to 2.5.  I 
have limited experience with rebol, so I'm trying to get clear on 
what problem it solves.

if you only want to use slim for testing out liquid, I suggest to 
follow the quickstart, it should get you started in a few minutes 
without fuss.

that is the concept, but liquid will know about any atom of data 
which needs to refresh, and will only recompute what HAS changed, 
so in the example you give, not all draw element will actually get 
refreshed, probably only one or two, and then, the draw block is 
relinked... the smarter you are within the processing (as usually) 
the faster will be the refresh rate.

you'd have had the chance to get a first hands on trying out the 
interactive node editing.

but its not yet actually able to DO anything.  I'm at the fledgling 
days of optimising the gfx engine for the graph editor.  The node 
creation, dragging and linking are done, (all graphically) and even 
already detect cycles, so you can't connect nodes in such a way as 
to get a dependency cycle  :-)

cause I'm basically hacking away at a working version and breaking 
it completely, hoping to patch it up and get it working with more 
features and cleaned up afterwards.

also since we have explicit knowledge of dirtyness of data, we can 
block I/O explicitely before or after some inputs have processed... 
 so if you have  a 'hide state for example, actually changing that 
state can send (or not)  an update, so that the other inputs get 
used when it un blocks... and any one needing the value, will get 
the modified values, which where stored while the node was blocked 
 :-)  no data is lost, its only dormant.

thanks  :-)  took a bit of tweaking to get the stuff sorted out, 
but I'm starting to get the hang of AGG.