AltME groups: search

While I'm at it ... am I the only one where links get distorted in 
display? Klicking works, but long links seem, are displayed wrong 
... they either wrap to the next line (partly overriding the text 
there), or part of the link isn't displayed.

hum, I am calling  wait  0.01  pretty often within the script to 
allow the asynchronous rebol core some breathing time which REALLY 
rocks btw... scanning multiple dirs, while letting the UI and mySql 
to work at the same time , I'd not be able to get it running so easily 
in any other language.... :-)

Right, the problem is to get connected to the server. Sometimes, 
the server reject the connection attempt. If you successfully connect 
and keep the connection opened, there should be no problem AFAIK.

rofl: if you have no wait, then i don't see how you could get that 
code called "concurrently"?

I am having problems connecting to mysql on windows XP. The error 
message I get is "Client does not support authentication protocol". 
I'm using localhost as the host and have granted all priviliges for 
['user''-:-'localhost'']  identified by ''password' .... etc. I'm used 
to linux, and it''s been

There are some gotchas using 'localhost'. Now on my linux machine, 
when I changed my I.P. from 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.6, I then had 
to connect using my machine's hostname (which was "linus") . If I 
attempt to connect using this machine's hostname (lucy) I get : MYSQL 
ERROR 1045 : Access denied for user ['tim'-:-'lucy'] (using password: 
YES). And I *have* also granted privileges to [tim-:-lucy] indentified 
by 'password''

Oh boy! Now we're getting into some good stuff! Sorry, I have to 
leave for an hour or so. I will try that as soon as I get back. Thanks....

any idea how to get(read) a string from a integer pointer, delivered 
by mysql.dll ? is there something like  - get-string  :integerpointer 
?

this means, that even if someone else inserts a record between your 
two queries, you'll get the correct result.

It is going to become platform. You get access to a plugin API where 
you can plug-in 3rd db modules. (At leass the was the plan from DevCon'04). 
Don't know how things will change in the future. You can still request 
RT to upgrade the drivers.

Sorry,I tried to search for this topic but could not find a result. 
Perhaps i did not get back far enough. I'll see if i can find out 
something about it. Thanks for the Info.

what I am not sure is if I can use checksum to get equivalent of 
above sha1("password") ?

we get a little score for the first round? :)

Doc has following comment for long-flag - "Get all columns flag" 
....

Any how. Need to go. GPL is just some biz terms, that you either 
decide to play with or not. If you don't like the terms the reimplement 
the functionality yourself, or get it from somewhere else.

I was able to send queries and get results?

you only get string! values, shouldn't some of the values be converted 
to integer! for example ?

Doc, are you sure your 'docode table is ok? I mean defs/client ....

client [
			long-password		1		; new more secure passwords
			found-rows			2		; Found instead of affected rows
			long-flag			4		; Get all column flags
			connect-with-db		8		; One can specify db on connect
			no-schema			16		; Don't allow db.table.column
			compress			32		; Can use compression protcol
			odbc				64		; Odbc client
			local-files			128		; Can use LOAD DATA LOCAL
			ignore-space		256		; Ignore spaces before '('
			change-user			512		; Support the mysql_change_user()
			interactive			1024	; This is an interactive client
			ssl					2048	; Switch to SSL after handshake
			ignore-sigpipe		4096	; IGNORE sigpipes
			transactions		8196	; Client knows about transactions
		]

While in protocol description, there is:

MySQL uses the following codes:
Capability name	Value	Meaning
LONG_PASSWORD	1	New more secure passwords
FOUND_ROWS	2	Found instead of affected rows
LONG_FLAG	4	Get all column flags
CONNECT_WITH_DB	8	One can specify db on connect
NO_SCHEMA	16	Don't allow database.table.column
COMPRESS	32	Can use compression protocol
ODBC	64	ODBC client
LOCAL_FILES	128	Can use LOAD DATA LOCAL
IGNORE_SPACE	256	Ignore spaces before '('
PROTOCOL_41	512	Support the 4.1 protocol
INTERACTIVE	1024	This is an interactive client
SSL	2048	Switch to SSL after handshake
IGNORE_SIGPIPE	4096	IGNORE sigpipes
TRANSACTIONS	8192	Client knows about transactions
SECURE_CONNECTION	32768	New 4.1 authentication
MULTI_STATEMENTS	65536	Multi-statement support
MULTI_RESULTS	131072	Multi-results

I get a strange bug where I, every time I do a query, some old data 
is sent back to me

maybe it needs to get "dirty" with a few selects first... I don't 
know

I solved the problem by installing the 0.99 version of mysql-protocol.r. 
It was quicker than trying to get XAMPP to accept a MySQL revised 
configuration file.

addad "s" to below line in mysql-protochol.r otherwise "s" get set 
in global space

b0: b1: b2: b3: int: int24: long: string: field: len: byte: s: none

Doc, will there be a new version of the mysql driver somewhere punlicly 
available? I get a can't connect on softinnov.org?

but I still get the bad handshake

another thing I experienced: The server was moved to a new location. 
For some reason, everything went FUBAR, because DNS had not been 
set up. This caused connecting to the server to take about 60 seconds 
to get through. When I looked in the list of connections, it just 
says "logging in" for that long time. I connect to the server with 
an IP address, not a host name, so what's going on?

MySQL, even MySQL Admin tool get lost when acting like that.

Thank you. With the old protocol I would sometimes get  an error 
 (and exit from the program) when I inserted into a closed port. 
I will give these a shot.

It would ... but I havent written a dialect and I wanted to get this 
changed.

I've also had a look inside xml-parse, it seems to be really like 
SAX - ready to use. But nobody is maintaining it, I think. As far 
as I understand, somebody could create a Handler to get the desired 
block structure (for instance a Handler for RebXML or any other model). 
I have to learn about this in REBOL.


A question: how can I measure memory for a block or an object tree 
in REBOL?

With length? i need some recursion, otherwise I get only the first 
level of the block if it is nested? How to serialize an object tree 
in REBOL - is there some function available?

RebXML is meant for conversion to/from the RebXML format and other 
formats (incl. XML). I use the RebXML format with NicomDoc, which 
makes it a lot easier to handle document formats. Let's say, you've 
got an XML file, and want to convert it to a format easily read by 
some application, then you first use xml2rebxml to get the XML file 
to RebXML format. Then make a converter from RebXML to the final 
format by renaming the rebxml2xml script and change it to do the 
output, that is wanted. rebxml2xml holds the structure of the RebXML 
format, so it's easier to start with that script. Search for "output" 
in rebxml2xml.

Maybe I should make a converter from RebXML to some format very easily 
manipulated directly within REBOL, like the python tool, Carsten 
found.

my own  when I started the project I did not have many days to "get 
on with it" and for various reasons all the tools I tried didn't 
properly load the specification I was trying to load.

its easy to use? and will get your job done within minutes of trying. 
  ;-)

i'm just trying to get some ideas. not a real poll. but maybe we 
can post this on reboltalk too.

max: tree rewriting is the technique that compilers use to get from 
the source AST to the final machine code; you can also imagine purely 
functional languages as special tree rewriting engines.

Actually I don't care what directly is available (as a user), if 
just some things can be done:

e.g. people need to process XML - thus people already knowing XSLT 
and XPATH would like to leverage their knowledge (I asume) - so if 
we get a dialect for this (2.) this is nice, but even nicer if there 
is some mechanism (a generalization) which allows to import an XSLT 
(ast?) or some XPATH query and return the (more rebolesque) according 
Rebol dialect

3. three has always this kind of attitude of being able to do everything 
better in Rebol itself - even if true (?), that's one of the problems 
with Rebol, that outsiders can't afford the time to do many things 
better (themself) or don't care, because they want use some standards 
nevertheless and Rebol drops out as an option


so I vote for 2. with the ability for 1. maybe by the possibilities 
tree rewriting (or dialect rewriting) offers (I have not much glue 
about this - so some of the experts should know)

You can do some structural pattern matching with parse rules, but 
with how parse is currently implemented it can be a little awkward. 
The lack of arguments to parse rules make recursion quite difficult, 
and the lack of local variables make the rules difficult to use concurrently. 
It is difficult to examine both the data type and the value of elements 
in block parsing, to switch to string parsing mode for string elements, 
to parse lists, hashes or parens, to direct the parse flow based 
on semantic criteria (which is needed to work around any of these 
other problems).


And don't even get me started on the difficulties of structure rebuilding. 
The thing that is the most difficult to do in parse is the easiest 
thing to do with regexes: Search and replace. Didn't we make a web 
site years ago collecting suggestions for improving parse? Wasn't 
a replace operation one of those suggestions? What happened with 
that?


Structural pattern matching and rebuilding currently has to be done 
with a mix of parse and REBOL code that is tricky to write and debug. 
If parse doesn't get improved, I'd rather use a nice declarative 
dialect, preferably with before and after structures, and have the 
dialect processor generate the parse and REBOL code for me. If that 
dialect is powerful enough to be written in itself then we'll really 
be cooking.

I submitted RebelXML to rebol.org quite some time from now. I can 
see it as been examined by some people. Well, it should be great 
if I could get some feedback about it.

I wonder if REBOL can get standards fully compliant XML parser/emitter 
....

Just playing with rebelxml

>> set-xml-data/content 'header/to "[carl-:-rebol-:-com]"
== "<header><to>[carl-:-rebol-:-com]</to></header>"


Now if I start with "header" and "to", how would I get the same result?

The web and soap/http are in a sense REST applications (REST is just 
WS over HTTP) though both use a limited subset of REST arguments 
and have to work around as such.


The web is limited (by the HTML spec) to the verbs 'get and 'post, 
and post content types of 'application/x-www-form-urlencoded (default) 
or 'multipart/form-data (used to upload files).  For the most part, 
the web is RESTful as we usually only want to 'get resources.  However, 
other operations typically violate REST principles, as all other 
resource actions (create, update, delete) have to squeeze through 
the get/post/url-encode/multipart pipe.  The Rebol HTTP protocol 
as standard is designed to mimic this and requires patching to move 
beyond get/post/url-endode (even for multipart)


SOAP as I understand it, when using HTTP only uses 'post - the post 
content contains the actual request.  Where it varies from the web 
(and Rebol HTTP) is the need for the 'text/xml content type.


REST itself is limited only by HTTP.  It uses theoretically limitless 
HTTP (v1.1) verbs (though most common patterns use 'get, 'put, 'post 
and 'delete).  It uses any encoding.  It uses HTTP headers as parameters 
(eg. the 'Accept header specifies the desired return type).  Therefore, 
any HTTP protocol designed for REST will accomodate SOAP requests.

Ashley  it looks just like what is after the ? in a GET to a  *.cgi?name="value"&N2="v2"

ashley, look at the source for the page, and search for the <form> 
tag. if method="GET", as Tom said, look at the url after pressing 
the submit button and just do a read on a similarly composed url. 
if method="POST", you need to look at all the <input> tags, figure 
out what the query string would be, and send it via POST using read/custom. 
(you could also use wireshark or similar to look at the query string 
the browser is sending if you don't want to look for the <input> 
tags)

Only one method at the moment - get-by-tagname


Note, this is not an attempt to implement W3 DOM.  Just a quick approximation 
for fast manipulation (hence the name).  It's object happy, not sure 
of the weight considerations as such.

do http://www.ross-gill.com/r/qdom.r

doc: load-dom {<some><xml>to try</xml></some>}
values: doc/get-by-tagname <xml>
values/1/value = "to try"

Ok, another revision.  This has a few more methods, I may strip them 
down to read-only, as I don't need to manipulate the object though 
I left them in for completeness.

>> do http://www.ross-gill.com/r/qdom.r
connecting to: www.ross-gill.com
Script: "QuickDOM" (none)
>> doc: load-dom {<some><xml id="foo">to try</xml></some>}
>> foo: doc/get-by-id "foo"
>> foo/name
== <xml>
>> foo/value
== [
    /id "foo" 
    # "to try"
]
>> kids: foo/children
== [make object! [
        name: #
        value: "to try"
        tree: [
            # "to try"
        ]
        position: [
   ...
>> kids/1/value
== "to try"
>> doc/tree/<some>/<xml>/(#)           
== "to try"

This seems to work for me ...

obj2xml: func [ obj [object!] out [string!]
	/local o 
][
	foreach element next first obj [
		repend out [ to-tag element newline ]
		either object? o: get in obj element [
			obj2xml o out
		][
			repend out [ o newline ]
		]		
		repend out [ to-tag join "/" element newline ]
	]
]

using this 

obj2xml: func [ obj [object!] out [string!]
	/local o 
][
	foreach element next first obj [
		repend out [ to-tag element newline ]
		either object? o: get in obj element [
			obj2xml o out
		][
			repend out [ o newline ]
		]		
		repend out [ to-tag join "/" element newline ]
	]
]

format-xml: func [ xml
    /local out space prev
][
    out: copy ""
    spacer: copy ""
    prev: copy </tag>
    foreach tag load/markup xml [
        either tag = find tag "/" [
            ; we have a close tag
            

            ; reduce the spacer by a tab unless the previous was an open tag
            either not tag? prev [
                ; not a tag
                remove/part spacer 4
            ][
                ; is a tag
                if prev = find prev "/" [
                    ; last was a closing tag
                    remove/part spacer 4
                ]
            ]
        ][ 
            either tag? tag [
                ; current is tag
                ; indent only if the prev is not a closing tag
                if not prev = find prev "/" [
                    insert/dup spacer " " 4
                ]
            ][
                ; is data
                insert/dup spacer " " 4 
            ]
        ]
        repend out rejoin [ spacer tag newline ]
        prev: copy tag
    ]
	view layout compose [ area (out) 400x400 ]
]

obj2xml: func [ obj [object!] out [string!]
	/local o 
][
	foreach element next first obj [
		repend out [ to-tag element ]
		either object? o: get in obj element [
			obj2xml o out
		][
			repend out any [ o copy "" ]
		]		
		repend out [ to-tag join "/" element ]
	]
]

Code in the spec block doesn't get attached to the object.

Functions can be serialized, but the only word contexts that get 
restored are the global and thee function local context. Any intermediate 
contexts, like object contexts, don't get restored.

That's because the "intermediate" contexts don't really indermediate 
- they get applied in order by DO.

fix-object: func [ obj [object!]
	/local prev
][
	foreach element next first obj [
		if object? o: get in obj element [
			; is object, so check to see if has value?
			either "value?" = form next first o [
				set in obj element trim/head/tail get in o 'value?	
			][
				fix-object o
			]		
		]
	]
]

this fixes up the object created by xml-to-object

you can add value? to /local and then do   either value?: in o 'value? 
 [ ...  get value?]

so, this is an attempt to remedy this 

fix-object: func [obj [object!]
	/local o value?
] [
	foreach element next first obj [
		if object? o: get in obj element [
			; is object, so check to see if has value?
			either value?: in o 'value? [
				set in obj element trim/head/tail get value?
			] [
				fix-object o
			]
		]
		if block? o [
			foreach ob o [
				fix-object ob
			]
		]
	]
]

Using rebelxml.r I have tried: get-xml-data/content/with-attribute 
 'xts:sports-content-set/sports-content/sports-metadata/sports-content-codes 
'/sports-content-code/code-type "sport" and many variations of this 
statement.  Using:  obj-xml  I have tried variations of obj-xml/document/xts-sports-content-set/sports-content/sports-metadata/sports-content-codes/sports-content-code/value?



As an example I tried to pull out the league information but could 
not, However I was able to pull out the TITLE using obj-xml/document/xts-sports-content-set/sports-content/sports-metadata/
sports-title/value? 


Obviously, I am clueless, so if anyone can point me in the right 
direction for a well document library (Hopefully with examples) that 
would be great. Otherwise if there is something glaring that I am 
doing wrong, please let me know.

Thanks,
Charlie

It reads and parses ok. I get the block object but my problem is 
trying to access the individual elements. When venturing into some 
of the nested attributes, I just can't seem to get it returning a 
result.. Can you post an example on how you would retrieve the "hits" 
for <player id="b.11965"> or get the league info from sports-content-code 
code-type="league"

>> do http://www.ross-gill.com/r/altxml.r
connecting to: www.ross-gill.com
Script: "AltXML" (7-Jun-2009)
>> all-stats: load-xml/dom your-xml-data 
>> player: stats/get-by-id "b.11965"                        
>> his-stats: first player/get-by-tag <stats-baseball-offensive>
>> his-stats/get #hits                                          
== "1"


>> remove-each code codes: all-stats/get-by-tag <sports-content-code> 
["league" <> code/get #code-type]
== [make object! [
        name: <sports-content-code>
        space: none
        value: [
            #code-type "league" 
      ...
>> foreach code codes [probe code/get #code-name]
Major ^/      League Baseball
== "Major ^/      League Baseball"

I'm guessing that it should be "all-stats/get-by-id" and not "stats/get-by-id"

>> google-xml: load-xml/dom clipboard:// ; copied from page
>> entries: google-xml/get-by-tag <entry>
== [make object! [
        name: <entry>
        space: none
        value: [
            #etag {"BxAUSh5RAyp7ImBq"} 
            <...
>> foreach entry entries [probe entry/get <resourceId>]
spreadsheet:key
== "spreadsheet:key"

>> entry: first entries                   
>> id: first entry/get-by-tag <resourceId>             
>> id/space                               
== <gd>

yes, I get a big xml made by "official" BLOATED standard for invoices 
.. I want to parse it as quick as possible and that's all

this is something I wrote a couple of years back ... maybe it will 
help

obj2xml: func [obj [object!] out [string!]
	/local o
] [
	foreach element next first obj [
		if all [ not function? o: get in obj element o] [
                        ; not a none tag
				repend out [to-tag element]
				either object? o [
					obj2xml o out
				] [
					repend out any [o copy ""]
				]
				repend out [to-tag join "/" element]
		]
	]
	out
]

It's called a "Pseudo-Relational Database" for a good reason. ;)


But in answer to Pekr's previous point; *you* can work out *how* 
to do that aggregation more efficiently than the limited AI of most 
RDBMS systems. I've worked at DB2 and Oracle shops where it was mandated 
that all JOINs be performed inline! SQL optimizers are not trivial 
to write, and the meta-data overhead (indexes, statistics, hints, 
etc) required to get them to make the "right" choices are often a 
false economy.

Stick to basic JOIN syntax in the form:

	select b.name, b.address
	from a, b
	where a.id = b.id
	and ...


those INNER JOIN and LEFT OUTER JOIN statements are unfamiliar to 
me and I get a headache just looking at them. ;)

The final [untested] solution is about as efficient as you can get. 
Adding JOIN support to RebDB so it can break the query down into 
similar steps is not a simple task. In all but the most trivial of 
cases you'd be better off coding it yourself.


What might be a good idea is to add something that lets you more 
easily specify the most common JOIN operation - master/detail with 
optional LOV (List Of Values) lookup(s). Your query is a classic 
example of this construct and it accounts for a surprisingly large 
number of queries.


The function would accept two queries, a master query (the orders 
table in your case) and a details query (the order-items table) and 
an optional block of column/LOV-table pairs (that perform substitutions 
such as company-name). The skeleton would look like:


 sql-join [master-query [block!] detail-query [block!] /order /lov 
 [block!] ]  [
		buffer: copy []
		...
		buffer
	]

and would be used as such:

	sql-join/order/lov [

  select [company-id order-id date amount total] from orders where 
  [amount > 2000]
	] [
		select * from order-items where %ID%
	] [8 1 5] [company-id companies]

Would this make things a tad easier?

IIRC MySQL docs join section describes very nicely the technique 
of optimisation. And after reading it some few monts ago I agree, 
that 'join is not trivial task at all, basically due to get it optimised. 
But you are right that most of the time those two mentioned cases 
are needed. The thing which complicates the optimisation part is 
- is your column a key? primary key? is it at least indexed? etc.

Ashley, sql-protocol generates the code used to extract and join 
the data is grouped in 2 functions :
- make-do-select
- make-do-loop

They receive the column list, the table list (a block of table/alias 
pair), the where code to apply and the database (the port).


If you provide these parameters and change the code to invoke RebDB 
fuction to get the data, you will have a basic join implementation 
for RebDB. You can use it and extend it for RebDB, if you want, I 
will be happy if you do so.

Thanks guys, I've had a good look at both implementations and I've 
got ideas from both for a future full JOIN implementation; but at 
the moment my master/detail code has come along nicely. I've now 
enhanced the db-select function to accept statements in these additional 
forms:


 select * from master joins [select * from details where &id] on id

 select * from master joins [select * from details where [all [master-id 
 = &id master-date = &date]] on [id date]


which works exactly like a normal join with the following differences:

	a) It can only join one table to another

 b) Detail columns are always joined to the right of master columns

 c) Table.column prefixes are not supported so all columns in the 
 join must be uniquely named


Apart from that you get all the benefits of db-select (can replace 
* with specific column combinations, order and group by on the final 
result set, etc) *and* it's significantly faster than even the raw 
REBOL code example I gave before (as the SQL is parsed once within 
db-select and all loop sub-selects are done in-line).

I've also implemented “lookups” with the following form:

	select * from table replaces id with name
	select * from table replaces [id-1 id-2] with [table-1 table-2]


which performs a highly optimized db-lookup for each replaced value, 
but has the following restrictions:


 a) The lookup expects lookup tables in the form [id label other-column(s)]
	b) Only single-key lookups are supported
	c) A lookup that fails will replace the column value with none!


I'm now in the process of benchmarking these changes against sqlite 
to see where the bottlenecks (if any) are. Feedback on the design 
decisions is welcome.


While I was doing this, I was once again reminded how cumbersome 
it is to construct SQL statements (not just for RebDB, same goes 
for the other SQL protocols), as the heavy use of 'compose, 'rejoin, 
etc adds noise that reduces legibility. The design goal is to provide 
alternatives to:


 sql compose/deep [select * from table where [all [col1 = (val1) col2 
 = (val2)]]]


so for a start the 'sql function should probably accept a string, 
to allow:

	sql join “select * from “ table


type constructs; but this doesn't make the first example easier. 
So how about the 'sql function accept a block containing a string 
statement followed by a number of substitution variables, as in:


 sql reduce [“select * from table where [all [col1 = &1 col2 = &2]]” 
 val1 val2]


which makes things a bit more readable (and shortens the expression 
if longer word names are used multiple times). So the two questions 
here are:

	a) Is this a good idea?

 b) If so, what substitution character (& % $ @ other) will cause 
 the least conflict with REBOL and/or SQL?

Quick hack to get this one common case working [well]. Proper solution 
(full JOIN support) is a major redesign.

>> pickno: 7
== 7
>> db-select/where * prospectDB [rowid = :pickno]
** Script Error: Cannot use subtract on get-word! value
** Where: switch
** Near: insert tail buffer copy/part skip
>> :pickno
== 7
>> db-select/where * prospectDB [rowid = 7]
== [

    7 "7-02-2006" "Nom-7" "Prénom-7" "Québec" "Cie-7" "Référence: US" 
    "Conjoint-7" "Enfant-7" "Bur: 418-845-7" "Rés: 418-845-7...
>>

I also tried:

>> db-update/where bottinDB (get fieldsnames) (get fvalues) compose 
['rowid = (to-id)]

** Script Error: db-update expected columns argument of type: word 
block

>> do [ db-update/where bottinDB (get fieldsnames) (get fvalues) 
compose ['rowid = (to-id)] ]

** Script Error: db-update expected columns argument of type: word 
block

>> reduce [ db-update/where exDB ( get exColumns) (get exValues) 
compose [rowid = to-id] ]

** Script Error: db-update expected columns argument of type: word 
block
I am getting short of inspiration.

Ashley;  Can we get rid of the %rebgui.log  and RebDB %.log database 
replay conflict?  I've taken to just deleting the %rebgui.log on 
app startup, which is probably not a good habit.  Preferred would 
be a rename of the database replay logs to something less 'conflicting', 
say .ldb or some such.  .LOG is too easy to trip over during app 
(especially widget) development.  But I'll accept a nice short No, 
too.  :)

Pekr, this observation is based on my current experience. I have 
yet to get an XML doc from any IBM'er.

Glayout is LGPL meaning unless you link it within your code, you 
do not get infected with GPL.

Even if I can use half of my year's income for a trip to Maui, I'll 
probably never get US Visa so it's pretty pointless for me.

Gabriele;  altme has no facial expressions.  Few get how jokey or 
how serious a posting may be.  The eyes and intonations make for 
at least half of the meaning.  It's my personal opinion that people 
can't drive well with cell phones due to the 3.4 kHz audio range; 
too many brain cycles are being used to fill in the missing intonations. 
  It takes a leap of faith in many posts when technical information 
is being discussed.  If people could see the look of fear and confusion 
that I usually express while typing something, I'd feel better that 
I wasn't leading people down the garden path when offering opinions 
and advice; my brain would know that they would know I was talkin' 
out my ass.  :)  So in short; in person is best by far, video is 
a distant second, audio even further down the chain and text way 
down at the bottom.  So given REBOL's awesome international user 
base, if I can't make DevCon, gimme viddies.

Brian, we are different I guess. I also hate talking on a phone, 
since spoken word for me can be hard to understand, but a simple 
line of text can be read again and again until you get it at the 
speed that you can read, not the speed that's dictated at the other 
end. I see a big difference there and my brain works just fine, processing 
text. Perhaps it only comes after 10 years of IRC'ing with lots of 
different people.

I don't really care about video unless it's a tutorial where the 
content is shown in at least DVD quality with a clear voice using 
a studio microphone and the audio is properly synchronized with the 
video. Simple plain text is for me far preferable for anything less 
than that.

Yes, would be nice to get the conference on this continent for a 
change.

i'd vote for cz, close from here, and finally i get to meet petr 
;)

Brock, I know you don't get much sunshine but your "circle" doesn't 
show up on the rebcon-map. Thanks Chris for this, by the way.

I'm actually in Ottawa, Canada, the down-under was a bit of joke 
about being from where I "don't get much sun"

I could get about 5 of the Qtask team to talk about their work with 
REBOL....

Yeah, there is "energy" in knowing you need to be THERE to get your 
questions in.

We should do it perhaps over several days, around 12:00pm California 
time, since this allows for people in Australia to get up early, 
and join, and also most of Europe, for whom it will be night.

Then we get to sleeep in :)

Hi James,


I've got 20 rooms set up already that I use to do live online music 
lessons on a daily basis.  I think the existing format of those rooms 
could work very well as they stand.  I'll create a special room just 
for Rebol Devcon.  I'd like to show you what I've got, to see if 
it'd work for your needs.  The audio/video conference software works 
on PC/Mac/Linux, in any browser that has a fairly recent version 
of the flash plugin installed (I believe version 6 onward will work 
- 8+ will definitely work).  Aside from flash, there's no installation 
required to use the system - just go to the designated web page. 
 It will allow anyone in the room to take turns jumping onto the 
mic/camera to speak (admin can ban unwanted users), there's a text 
chat, and I've got a really simple way of sharing screen shots already 
installed in the existing room setup.  It should take only a minute 
or 2 to show presenters how it works...


I've being doing daily live online music lessons as a part of my 
commercial music lesson business for the past 4.5 years, and this 
system is the most stable and simple that I'm aware of.  It'll work 
through just about any router/firewall configuration, and it's dead 
simple to use - visitors just go the url, and they'll hear and see 
the speaker.  If they want to be seen on camera and speak, they just 
need to have a web cam and microphone installed and working.  If 
flash is running in the browser, it'll work immediately, no download 
or installs to do.


There's a video that I send to students which explains a little about 
it:  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sx5qI0GWig


The online lesson page for my business, which has basic info about 
web cams, microphones, and headphones, is here:

http://rockfactory.us/OnlineLessons.html

Please let me know if you have any questions :)


> If someone will email me personally, I can start putting together 
some 

> suggestions about how to organize and manage the presentation. 
 I need

> to get an idea of what sort of software components will be needed: 

> white board, text chat, file sharing, 1-to-many/many-to-many video 

> conferencing, etc...  I'd also need to get a close estimate beforehand

> of the number of people attending, to make sure I prepare enough 

> bandwidth and available connections for the live event (If you'd 
like,

> I've got a little Rebol sign-up script that I use in my business 
to 

> let people sign up for events, you're welcome to use that if you'd 

> like, to help organize things).  Please let me know whenever you 
get a 
> chance!
>
> - Nick Antonaccoio

Nick, glad to finally see you post.  I assume you usually monitor 
the web output of the this world.  I hope we do eventually get a 
video conferencing solution in REBOL.  I don't see it happening before 
REBOL3 hits though.

Anyone who wants to speak with me or others on Wednesday should have 
a microphone and headphones already attached to the computer.  Please 
use headphones instead of speakers to avoid echo (echo can get to 
be a really big problem without headphones).  To test your setup, 
including your audio/video, please use this page:  http://rockfactory.us/videos/videogallery_viewer.html
.  Please let me know if you have any questions!

Maarten, if you're there and need to leave quickly, maybe you can 
try out out the system first - it shouldn't take too long to see 
how everything works.  I'll try to get together another time for 
those who can't make it today.

Doesn't work for me, but my connection starts to get flaky. AltME 
works though

FF crashed here. I'll try to get back in shortly.

The system is very cool. I wish we could get the best of the three 
tools... It's funny that noone solved this problem completely yet.

If there is a way to get the names in the broadcast/viewer one, i 
think it would be almost perfect.

The system is very cool. I wish we could get the best of the three 
tools... It's funny that noone solved this problem completely yet.

Yup.

I'll get a better text chat together, with name :)

I'll get that done tonight...

Someone should talk to Flotools and get their chat client UI fixed.

Not the butt part (don't get any ideas).

If we are willing to pay we can use the Adobe service as well. This 
worked but I couldn't get the spund to my headset, if I recall (the 
brief period before my ADSL went down) it was only 3 at a time. I 
think they have a pay-as-you-go. The money would be like the virtual 
conference fee.

Anyway, cool stuff.