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Graham, I'm not using Boron yet, but as you know, some of the Syllable 
system tools are written in ORCA. I'll port them to Boron when I 
get to it

There's no 'system, let alone system/options/cgi.  Is there any method 
for retrieving GET or POST data?  I'd work agressively at implementing 
some useful web site applications with Boron if there was even rudimentary 
CGI support.

Not much is needed for CGI, so I'd guess it's possible. ORCA had 
a getenv function to get the environment variables and so does Boron, 
I guess

That would be M2. You can also get that included in my source package 
in the Syllable downloads

Henrik, it looks like boron-gl is starting fairly normally, but doesn't 
get into the console somehow

So do you get the Boron console when you start it from a terminal?

I should be able to do that, looks easy enough. I'll call you if 
I get stuck. :-)

Hmm, you've transformed 'from-native, but as the real need was in 
fact to be able to get a binary! representation of a decimal! value, 
I tranformed 'to-native and 'split for that purpose. Has this IEEE 
library is quite rich, the need for the workaround of the intermediary 
string! representation is not needed anymore. Anyway, thanks for 
the update, I'm sure we'll need it at some point for float support.

Is it possible to get function name from inside the function body 
while it's procesed?

In R2, use the catch-an-error trick

      a-function: func [][print ["i am named " get in disarm  try [0 / 
      0] 'where]]
      a-function
      i am named  a-function

GrahamC, thank you for passing this around.  I did get part way to 
a solution, as noted on your site.  Strange as it may seem, I am 
able to get to the network drives if I run a copy of REBOL that I 
download and leave with the name it came with, namely rebol-view-278-3-1. 
 The copy of REBOL that was giving me trouble was the same rebol-view-278-3-1, 
but I had renamed it to rebview to make a desktop shortcut work. 
 I had the name "rebview" in the shortcut so that I would not have 
to change the shortcut if I ever got an upgraded version of REBOL 
with a different name, like maybe rebol-view-279.  So my first problem 
with WIndows 7, REBOL, and network drives seems fixed.  


I still am not to a full solution to my Windows 7 issues.  I have 
some REBOL scripts that use the "call" command to run powershell. 
 Powershell then runs a powershell script to extract stuff from an 
EXCEL spreadsheet, which then is manipulated by the REBOL script. 
 Actually it's a bit messier.  I run a REBOL program launcher on 
the C drive which runs a REBOL script on a network drive.  The script 
on the network drive calls powershell with parameters to make powershell 
run a powershell script.  The powershell script extracts EXCEL data, 
and the calling REBOL script then makes a report of the extracted 
data.  


When I try to do this, the result from powershell is that I am not 
allowed to run scripts on that computer.  I am aware of this feature 
of powershell, and I have done what has worked for Windows XP (set-executionpolicy 
remotesigned).  I can run powershell directly, and execute scripts 
located on a network drive.  When a REBOL script that worked on XP 
calls powershell on WIndows 7, it won't go.  I am not expecting any 
help with this last issue at this time because the "call" does work 
in some cases (call/shell "notepad") (call/console/show "powershell"), 
so I still have several things to try, and if none work I am plotting 
a work-around.

OK, figured it out. I had to pass the object as a 'word then "do" 
it in the function to get it to work.

Thanks Graham and Gregg. The object that I was passing was a face 
and I tried different ways to get it to work and that was the only 
way it would work. I guess the question is how does one know when 
he is passing some value if the receiving function sees it as the 
writer is intending it to be seen. Anyway for now I am satisfied 
and have moved on to other issues. I appreciate your input though.

If the func doesn't take a lit-word/get-word argument, it should 
evaluate and pass as an object. Now, if you have a block of words 
that refer to list faces, and you pass that word, that's what you 
get. If your func has types defined for the args, that can help catch 
issues like this.

I've been working a lot lately, and haven't had a lot of spare time. 
 I'm actually working with REBOL full time at a company which is 
using it to get a significant competitive advantage over the competition.

refinement! is member of the any-word! typeset together with word!, 
set-word!, get-word! and lit-word!. My thoughts above lead to asking 
if also none! and logic! should be part of any-word! with datatype! 
too? Examples from R2:

>> /ref = 'ref
== true
>> find [/ref]Ê'ref
== none		; this is strange to me

Maybe all the next should succeed?

>> find [true] true
== none
>> find [none] none
== none
>> find [integer!] integer!
== none

I have the code:

get-attribute: func[name /local tmp][all [tmp: select/skip attributes 
name 2 first tmp]]

but it's so UGLY.

That is not complete in that it does not handle other operations 
than GET-ATTRIBUTE

Oldes: I was just about to write this, I asked is this a bug a few 
months ago, but no, it returns a block when you select with /skip 
because you can select more-than-one value if your skip size is > 
2 , otherwise you cannot get the further values. You select block 
of values when use /skip.

when it is int it could be 64bit or 32bit.. depend on the compiler 
and the OS. 

Pekr: So may be the C library returns a 64bit integer: #{0000000001D30000} 
= #{00000000 - 01D30000}, the left part is 0 (=false) the second 
part is just a number from stack.. 
When you get in from R2 it become #{01D30000} = 30605312

Under OS X using gcc, I get bool length 1 both with Cyphre and Andreas 
versions, and also with or without -std=c99 option.

Because I had no experience with LLVM, because I started World dev. 
on older MacBook, because LLVM was many MB download, because I wasn't 
sure, I could get LLVM on Windows and Linux easily.

@Oldes, fix uploaded. Get world_* again.

And I get a malloc error, when doing that a couple of times. Yes, 
crash. I'll hunt that down.

(Well, I can't, as I get a crash immediately :)

My focus is to get the simple cases to work first. But interesting 
ideas, what I may take up later. :)

I get a malloc error under OS X (64-bit), when redefining a function 
with code like:

f: make function! reduce [pick :f 1 pick :f 2]


I didn't find the error, so I tried it under WinXP (32-bit), and 
the error isn't there!? Any suggestions?

I'm very focused to get to version 1. When that's done (or almost 
done), it makes more sense to launch parallel projects. If someone 
offer me a business opportunity, I'm willing to change my focus or 
work on specific projects.

Somewhere, in the road to version 1.0 you will need help. It belongs 
to you teling us when you will have clear in your mind the whole 
project. Then, please SHARE THE VISION and ask for cooperation and 
involvement of other programmers.


It's pretty clear in my mind, what version 1 is about. When I started, 
I wrote down the natives, which are really necessary to create a 
REBOL like language on a virtual machine. All the other functions 
should be able to be produced from this set of natives. I listed 
about 100. World currently has 83 natives implemented. Maybe some 
of them will get some more refinements before version 1, but you 
could say, the natives are 80% done.


You may think of this project as the Wildman project (see that group), 
not on native hardware, but on a virtual machine.

On the other hand, on a 64-bit system with 64-bit pointers, compiler 
optimisation of code such as:

	0 GET_TVALUE	0		10031dff0
	0 GET_TVALUE	1		100150fa0
	0 ADD			0		0		1
	0 SET_TVALUE	10016f6f0	0


will require 192 bit just for the 3 pointers, which will mean 256-bit 
instructions (with opcode), if the code can be optimized into 1 instruction. 
Optimizing four 128 bit inst into one 256 bit inst will halve the 
memory required. I haven't dug enough into optimisation in World 
to say, if it's possible.

Did you get cortex.w too?

Geomol; by text!  I was referring to the old junk! argument.  It's 
not really junk!, it's human text, encoded as humans see fit, gibberish 
or deep meaning symbolic.  Naming things is hard.  ;)   KWATZ! is 
ok...but I don't get the 'ahhh, that's optimal in meaning and depth' 
from it - and I lean Buddhist and did see the Zen references. But 
kwatz is still sinking in, if it's going to (and perhaps that is 
the best kind of deep meaning).

And if you don't mind, I may start poking around in your wiki as 
btiffin on GitHub.  Feel free to tear any writings apart.


I'll admit to having some deeply ingrained misunderstandings about 
REBOL, so those will likely slip right on over to World.    (I've 
got notes from Ladislav, Gabriele and a few others that pointed out 
these misunderstandings (and when documenting, misunderstandings 
are simply untruths and need to be treated that way)).  In particular, 
I still don't see clearly the 'value - premake - type - make (and) 
word' semantics of REBOL (at least in terms of trying to explain 
it)  I'm hoping your World engine code is let out so I get a chance 
to view my problem from a different angle and hopefully 'see the 
light'.


I'll add that if you want to send any snippets for markup in LaTeX, 
I'll sign up for grunt work too.

Or we could consider a more practical situation directly related 
to World: If you can compile blocks, it would make sense to use the 
reflection facilities to get access to metadata about the compiled 
blocks (especially since that would be something that you might want 
to secure, or since functions would need similar reflectors), but 
PICK already has a defined meaning for blocks.

There seem to be a problem with routines returning a handle. A library 
like MagickWand (part of ImageMagick) works this way. I'm not able 
to test it with MagickWand, as I'm not able to load that library 
for different reasons, and I don't wanna use too much time on it.


So I'm after another library, that has a routine, which returns a 
handle, so I can test. A library easily to get for OS X, Linux and 
Windows would be nice. Any suggestions?

World is free to use and can be found at https://github.com/Geomol/World

Why don't you try those things out yourselves? I would like to comment, 
but I feel, you get most from it by trying it.

To get a binary, click it, then click raw.

About copying from a port, I get a zero, if the port is closed, but 
just under OS X and Linux. Windows version seems to hang in that 
situation. Networking code is open source, and you're welcome to 
suggest changes. I consider using a lib for networking instead of 
coding it all by hand.

Suggestion:


Some routines return a pointer to a structure, like LOCALTIME (from 
LIBC). The structure is struct tm and consists of 11 fields.


In World, we can define LOCALTIME to return a pointer to a handle!, 
but how should we get to all the data fields?


I suggest, TO should be used to copy data from a handle to a structure, 
like:

tm: struct [
	sint sec
	sint min
	sint hour
	sint mday
	...
] none

h: localtime time	; time is some variable holding seconds
to tm h	; This will copy the data (pointed to by h) to tm

Comments? Concerns?

In the ImageMagick/MagickWand example, it was a string, and it's 
possible to get the string from a handle in World with:

	to string! handle

I thought of something similar with structs.

I test under WinXP with cmd and with cygwin bash terminal, and it 
works:

C:\world\src>.\world.exe -?
Loading Cortex... Done
usage: .\world.exe [options] [script]
...

I should get a Win7 soon, then I can test that.

I have World calling COBOL code.  It'll be nice to get a full on 
64 bit core though.  Much mucking about with 32 bit libraries, compiling 
COBOL in a VBox etc.

Getting close to automating the Dictionary wiki pages as well.


Adding to the old topic of openeness.  OpenCOBOL is open source, 
but very few people fork it.  Roger is the principal developer, and 
we wait for his releases ... but we get to see the compiler, build 
it on our platforms.   John, I don't want to see World core open 
so I can change it, I'd like to see it open so I can read it, build 
to suit, learn things.  So, if it's not asking too much, put the 
core code up in a read-only repo and ignore the forks while you develop?

Lastly; fun and looking forward.

Another try to close the topic on openness: So you expect to get 
man-years of work open-sourced for free? And this in a situation, 
where I get nothing from doing so? Please, be serious! World is not 
a hobby-project for me. I have invested a lot of time and money in 
this.

I have my hands full, and the World project do very good progress 
right now. I see no business benefit from making World open source 
at this point in time.

Case closed. :)

Geomol - it is just that you depreciate psychological factors. Ppl, 
especially with previous experience with RT, are very carefull here. 
In the end, you might just wonder, why noone is interested in such 
a model anymore. And in the end, it is just end result, which matters. 
You either get some community surrounding World, or you might wonder, 
why while your product is excellent, noone really cares anymore. 
Or - you might end up finding some nice niche e.g. embedded market, 
having lots of customers, etc. There is many possibilities, how your 
decision might influence something.


What I really don't understand is one thing - you sound too protective. 
You have full right to sound that way. But what escapes my mind is 
- "when I get nothing from doing so?".  And what do you get from 
actually not doing so? Also - do you expect any harm, caused to the 
business side of your project, by eventually open-sourcing?


As for me - I am used to commercial and licensed products. I just 
wanted to point out, that in the end, your attitude, might be contraproductive. 
If you keep product developed, ppl might feel safe, but ppl might 
also be carefull with their contribution to the project, because 
such kind of REBOL related project already failed big time. Not your 
falt, that's for sure, but the negative assumption is in the air 
nonentheless.

And so he wants support for free. :-)

Joke appart, I feel bad because we saw many projects failed because 
of the same reason.

A language implementation itself without real businnes application 
will get you nothing but some fame.
And so he wants support for free. :-)

Geomol: "man-years of work open-sourced for free? And this in a situation, 
where I get nothing from doing so?"


You could get _a lot_ from doing so. Increased participation in general, 
with all the positive effects that can encompass. But whether you 
consider that worth the trade-offs necessary to reap those benefits 
is obviously your choice.

He means that Boron is LGPL, rather than GPL. You still get (an extended 
large subset of) the restrictions.

Yes, I saw that, but what do you do, if total is zero. What do you 
display or give back.
I just get an endless stream of "00000"  until crash

Under OS X, I get an empty binary, which is expected behaviour. Under 
WinXP, the process hangs here. The OS X and Linux version of World 
use standard BSD networking, the Windows version use MS networking, 
where an init is needed. You're welcome to suggest changes to the 
host specific sources. At this stage, I won't use a lot of time on 
Windows specific sources, as I don't use that platform very much.


I consider using cURL for networking, as that could give a lot of 
features fast. If I find, it adds too much to the overall size of 
World, it could be cut along the way by moving features from cURL 
to World sources.

My impression (correct me if I'm wrong, Geomol) is that Geomol doesn't 
require our interest to get a return on his investment. He's already 
got a planned use for World in his own projects. Our interest and 
feedback is a bonus.

World is 64 bit. If you don't specify typecheck, it assumes the return 
value to be a 64-bit integer, e.g. sint64 or uint64 in C and integer! 
in World. If the return value of the C library routine isn't a 64 
bit integer, you need to specify typecheck to get it converted from 
8, 16 or 32 bit to 64 bit. If the return value of the C library routine 
is 64 bit, typecheck isn't necessary, but can still be used, and 
it will slow the routine call a bit.

Well, a trade-off :-) It is about to get the most expected result 
preferably, vs your mentioned speed :-)

to get rid of the 3-digit enforcement:

tuple-syntax: [any digit #"." some digit #"." 0 7 [some digit #"."] 
any digit and termination]

http://issue.cc/r3/1477- Special-case / words not recognized in 
lit-word!,  get-word! or set-word! form

http://issue.cc/r3/1478- Special-case arrow-based words not recognized 
in set-word! or refinement! form

Those seem to be the last two unimplemented syntax fixes in R3, at 
least that I can find/remember.

??? I don't get it

A112 (not released) is reported to have other improvements related 
to get-words and set-words

When people wanted to refer to the < word in R2, and they can't use 
the lit-word syntax for arrow words in R3 and pre-a97 R3, one way 
is to store that word in a block and use FIRST to get the value. 
However, in R2 that resulted in a value that LOAD choked on. The 
<] tradeoff was made really early on in the R3 project to solve that 
issue. The alternative would be to make MOLD mold [<] as [< ], or 
more specifically to make < mold as "< ", with an extra space every 
time.

or did I get you wron?

The escape decoding gets done too early. The decoding should not 
be done after until the URI structure has been parsed. If you do 
the escape decoding too early, characters that are escaped so that 
they won't be treated as syntax characters (like /) are treated as 
syntax characters erroneously. This is a bad problem for schemes 
like HTTP or FTP that can use usernames and passwords, because the 
passwords in particular either get corrupted or have inappropriately 
restricted character sets. IDN encoding should be put off until the 
last minute too, once we add support for Unicode to the url handlers 
of HTTP, plus any others that should support that standard.

yep... and I've lost hours trying to get some ftp code to work because 
it had strange urls (with passwds)... which the interpreter would 
break all the time. 

At some point you are mystified by what is the actual URL being sent 
to the server.


once you see what is going on, you can get it to work, but realizing 
that you didn't actually send the url you expect, can take quite 
a long time to realize and properly fix once you've got a whole app 
expecting/playing with urls.

just write: ? datatype! in the console to get some list

actually,  path! also has a few quirks, like allowing parens and 
the use of a  get-set-word at the end