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I'm wondering if it would be possible to get the R3 DLL interface 
into R2 without big trouble?

To integrate the extension interface into R2 would be a huge task, 
and I'm not quite sure how to get around the lack of extendable objects 
(to build the module system on, since extensions are integrated with 
the module system). Adding the handle! type would be easy; adding 
the command! type would be a bit harder.

When I use NULL I get a smaller executable than with 0. Is that correct? 
The Windows backend emits four bytes, but the ELF backend says something 
about ignoring NULL

So, better get it right.

Doc, did you consider using the set-word!  type for getting pointers 
to words?  much like we use them to get function values, instead 
of calling functions...

I believe that the same "get-word" syntax will be used should  function 
pointers be  introduced at a later date

Maxim, that's the get-word! type. The set-word! type is used for 
assignment (setting).

I have already added the support for getting function's address using 
get-word! syntax (it returns an integer! value). Structs, c-strings, 
pointer are already passed by reference.

The only syntax I can get to compile is as pointer! [integer!] 0

I can't get past the null comparisons, but I've checked my other 
fixes in to Fossil

Darn, I didn't get around to summarizing that argument here about 
struct vs. pointer in the google group, so it looks like its conclusions 
were completely ignored.

Null is currently of type pointer! [integer!], I need to get it back 
inside the compiler to make it polymorphic. Just use 0 for integer! 
or handle! (if you've defined it) in the meantime.

Using strace -o -r hello, I get in the logs:
---->> 406 = Fork ("<NULL>'")
Invalid pagefault at 000000ec (NOTP:WRITE:USER)

You'll note that only a few trolls have responded to the article, 
and one person who already knew REBOL. This is typical when you introduce 
something that people don't understand. They'll hold back from responding 
in fear of saying something that makes them look stupid. However, 
so far four thousand of them have traveled from the article to the 
Red site, which is more than we get on a typical Syllable article

I will try to chip in once you get to more app / lib level :)

In the past two years I made a lot of effort to get R3 running on 
Syllable Server and then Syllable Desktop, and just now that it was 
becoming somewhat usable, it's being abandoned

If you get a BSD licence. The purpose of the other unspecified licence 
is specifically to prevent REBOL competitors

Kaj, you stated: "In the past two years I made a lot of effort to 
get R3 running on Syllable Server and then Syllable Desktop, and 
just now that it was becoming somewhat usable, it's being abandoned."


What exactly is being abandoned? I tried to read back through the 
previous messages, but I'm missing something.

ddhaing - Carl does not do any active R3 development (unless something 
is being done without our knowledge) since 10/2011. That is half 
a year. Carl also does not treat REBOL community well, so some ppl 
get the impression of R3 being "abandoned". Carl replied to Oldes, 
that he is working on some Linux embedded contact, which even does 
not allow him to use the R3. Any question about the R3 development 
plan, stays being unanswered. My take is, that if Carl does not resurface 
soon enough, clearly stating how he plans to proceed with R3, he 
effectively burries R3 under, as ppl might get their free time to 
Red instead.

So, how about a way to always keep a list of external used functions? 
This make it simpler to make Red totally stand-alone later. The hard 
part to get rid of all the lics & OS stuff is, that you have to find 
out, which functions you have to "clone".

I would be suprized if there was no C compiler for all those plug 
computers, but anyway, I will do my best to have a dependency-free 
Red core option. I will keep all the core bindings in separate per-OS 
files, so it will be easier to track them.


I guess it would be fun to implement a micro-OS in Red/System for 
these micro-platforms, I always wanted to get my hand on a custom 
TCP/IP stack implementation :-) .

To get a handle on why Red/System tries to replace C, I think it's 
interesting to compare this function prototype:

I don't even know if I've translated that right, because I get a 
headache trying to read the C prototype

Kaj: regarding chimpanzees...

my father in law has some monkeys which normally help to twist off 
coconuts from palm trees. as these little guys get older, they get 
slower and also grumpier. 2 different ones already bit my father 
in law.

we might give these retired, veteran monkeys a second life as random 
number generator! i would be a great business in thailand if i think 
about how many coconut trees and monkeys do they have here :)

Picasso once said that when art critics meet, they discuss design 
and architecture and geometry, deeper meaning and social consequences; 
and when artists gather, they talk about where to get cheap turpentine

For some functionality, I need to have access to the stdin, stdout 
and stderr identifiers. For syscalls, they're simple integers, but 
in the C library, they're pointers to file descriptors. There's currently 
no way to get their values

Steeve: I failed to install that version too, but here are special 
install images for Vmware and VirtualBox under "Emulate Syllable" 
bar here: http://web.syllable.org/pages/get-Syllable.html#installation-CD

It should be quite easy to get it to run on the BSD systems from 
the current state

or rather: get-integer-size

No, I simplified the example. I actually wanted to get sizes of structs 
without allocating one

Doesn't it get the size of the pointer then?

I don't get what is the issue with casting (expect the error message)?

Kaj: on Windows, it is possible to use _get_osfhandle() to retrieve 
the file handle for stdin/out/err (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ks2530z6.aspx)

I get

Which means.. if I have code:

print-1 "int %d" 1
print "hello"

I get in REBOL console:
>> call/console %builds/test.exe
hello
int 1== 0

Yes, it's not great, either. The problem with PRIN is compounded 
in Red/System because now you get prin-int and such

I suppose READ and WRITE will get a REBOL like implementation?

I managed to get git running. Let see if I can get Red sources.

I can't sell web sites because my site builder is running in REBOL, 
which people can't get installed

*** Compiler Internal Error: Script Error : compare-func-specs expected 
cb argument of type: get-word 
*** Where: check-expected-type 
*** Near:  [unless any [
all [
block? expr 
object? expr/1 
expr/1/action = 'null 
type: expected 
any-pointer? expected/1
] 
all [
type 
any [

I don't think so. The called function will try to get its missing 
arguments from stack anyway.

Got my virtual struct! lib working ok. It is not perfect but should 
cover our needs for Red bootstrapping. Finally, we'll be able to 
get rid of /View.

I still don't get why you can't solve that with wrapper functions?

If you want the function to return a logic! status and a result to 
be able to handle it locally, the result needs to fetched through 
a pointer, which also raises complexity. We can't handle addresses 
very well yet, either, because get-words only work for native functions

Regression from a recent change, you should get a compilation error 
saying that x is missing a return value.

And then? RED language implementation, generating Red/System code? 
That will actually mean reimplementing all REBOL natives - how long 
do you expect it to take to get to an alpha? One year? More?

I won't be able to get back to Red before tomorrow.

Indeed, it doesn't seem to be possible to get away without that

Hm, a cURL progress callback needs floats. It's pretty limiting if 
you can't get progress feedback

Not as concise as READ "http://rebol.com"but we'll get there

As long as you keep Red relevant for Syllable, I can get it on OSNews 
;-)

The kernel log is probably the best backtrace we can get

The parsing functions in the C library binding can get you halfway

Very nice indeed. In GET-KEY, should 'cc be local?

ok, I think, I get it now. Thanks!

We'll see how far we can get with sound and graphics without floats

Well, let's first get some pixels in those windows :-)

It's the same bug that crashes cURL. It doesn't even get to opening 
the window, it prevents the SDL library from properly initialising

I haven't tested it yet, but I'm sure that without it, things such 
as get-env won't work

For Syllable Desktop I have to disable CDROM support, because we 
have only recently ported that to SDL. But now I get the windows, 
both with and without border

Now that variable arguments and RTTI are available, I have re-designed 
the basic screen printing functions. I have inserted a _ character 
in front of all PRIN-* functions, as they should not be used anymore 
in the general case (I might drop them completly later if they are 
not useful anymore). 


Before releasing it, I would like to get some feedback first. Now 
only the polymorphic PRINT and PRINT-WS (inserting spaces) functions 
should be needed. LF, CR, TAB, SPACE have been declared, so can be 
freely used in print blocks (or anywhere else). Variadic and typed 
functions have now a relaxed syntax, allowing to pass a single argument 
without enclosing [ ] brackets.

PRINT: print one or several arguments one after each other.

PRINT-WS: print one or several arguments, inserting a space character 
between each arguments.

Here how it looks now:

* printing without newline

    print "hello"
    print 123
    print ["hello" 123 tab "world"]

* printing with newline

    print ["hello" lf]
    print [123 lf]
    print ["hello" 123 tab "world" lf]

* printing with space inserted

    print-ws ["hello" 123 "world"]
    print-ws ["hello" 123 tab "world" lf]

Aha, so Red/System is just a general REBOL/C like language. We still 
need to wrap native functionality/libraries, to get tasking, events, 
etc. Btw - do you plan to utilise liboop, libevent, pthreads libraries, 
or will you write everything from scratch/your (REBOL) way?

Not that any of you would have issues with creating such a thing 
but here is an R2 version of the Colineau's (Jocko) Google translate 
app he created in Red. (Note, I didn't add all of the routines but 
if you take a look at Colineau's code it's all there.)  Also, the 
female voice (use gTTS function instead of TTS function) is much 
better than the male in my opinion unless you want to hear "This 
is Amiga Speaking." and feel nostalgic.

rebol [
	title: {googletts.r}
	date: 20-aug-2011
	usage: {gtts "Hello World." or tts "Hello World."}	
]

lib: load/library %tts-jc.dll

TTS: make routine! [
	lpStr [string!]
	return: [integer!]		
] lib "TTS"

gTTS: make routine! [
	lpStr [string!]
	return: [integer!]		
] lib "gTTS"

-----

I created some nice memory tools for my son who is in law school 
with this by setting up the string and tweaking it and then recording 
it (I use Sound Forge). If I get some free time I'd like to create 
a dialect so that I can make an interactive tool with visual reinforcements. 
As I mentioned, you have to tweak the words and punctuation and that 
creates a problem with just reading the text normally, hence I'll 
require a mechanism to sort all that out.

Oh, the dll is in the http://www.colineau.fr/rebol/downloads/demoTTS_Red.zip
file

I am surprised myself at how far you can get. I'm pretty certain 
this is now the most concise and efficient GTK binding in existence

for example and then check for that code. But you'd get a manual 
sort of symbol table that would take space

just testing for a while... having:
	MagickGetImageWidth: "MagickGetImageWidth" [
		;{Returns the image width.}
		*wand     [wand!]
		return:  [integer!]
	]

When I do:
	width: MagickGetImageWidth *wand
	print ["image width: " width " " MagickGetImageWidth *wand]
I get:
	image width: 78 0000004E
I was expection:
	image width: 78 78
What do you think?

Oldes: I can't reproduce the issue, I tried with the following test 
code:

	#import [
		"msvcrt.dll" cdecl [
			abs: "abs" [
				n 	[integer!]
				return: [integer!]
			]
		]
	]

	width: abs -78
	print ["image width: " width " " abs -78]

I get:
    image width: 78 78

I did download the Windows GTK distribution to get the library names 
right, so apparently I did it right :-)

Red/System [ ]

#include %GTK.reds

button-pushed: function [
	[callback]
	widget				[gtk-widget!]
	data				[handle!]
][

 print ["Input: "  gtk-get-entry-text  as gtk-entry! data  newline]
]

input: field "Here"

gtk-view window [
	170 90  gtk-position-center
	"Red GTK+ Input Field"
	fixed [
		70 10  label "Input:"
		 5 30  input
		60 60  button [50 25  "OK"  :button-pushed input]
	]
]

Where did you get the Windows SDL binaries?

jocko: try to compile it with the -g command line option, you should 
get the error location in sources.

You can also do it with an index, but indexes are one-based. With 
pointer advancement you usually get the same effect as zero-based 
indexes

I thought I'd try the GTK+ examples. Is there somewhere I can get 
C-library.reds?

I think I get what is going wrong: the action handler calling convention 
is inferred as stdcall, because it is passed to a Red/System 'button 
function. But this function is passing it to an imported C function, 
so the hanlder's calling convention should be cdecl.

Have to get back into Red. I've been looking into Freecoin and other 
stuff for a few days

The ?? is the default value for cconv. When the compiler encounters 
a get-word!, it propagates the cconv from the function using it as 
argument.

If we get rid of 'callback attribute, then only 'cdecl attribute 
will be required and it will have to be set manually everywhere it 
is needed.

Looks like Nenad will get 39 bits ARM immediate values :-)

Looks like Nenad will get 39 bits ARM immediate values :-)


Most likely not. A64 (the ARM 64-bit instruction set) will have 32-bit 
fixed length instructions as well.

#include %GTK-WebKit.reds

home: "http://www.red-lang.org/"

address: function [
	[cdecl]
	widget				[gtk-entry!]
	data				[gtk-scrolled-window!]
][
	web-browse  web-get-view data  gtk-get-entry-text widget
]

browser: browse home

gtk-view window [
	gtk-position-center
	"Lazy Sunday Afternoon Browser"
	vbox [
		field [home  :address browser] gtk-tight
		browser gtk-full
	]
]

For the RED import, I am getting "Compilation Error: attempt to redefine 
existing function name: printf" when trying to compile the example 
for variadic  http://static.red-lang.org/red-system-specs-light.html
    Get same message for "free" when trying to compile example from 
9.1 #import.     What novice error am I  making?

I would personally appreciate it if you supported 2.2, as that is 
the last version that my phone model currently has been upgraded 
to. It would be a good idea to look up the stats for which percentages 
of Android phones are running which versions. I haven't seen a 1.5 
phone in over a year, but my gf's phone won't be upgraded past 1.6 
(I need to get her a new phone).

Android lets you bundle seperate binaries for ARM5 and ARM7 support 
in the same APK. Which binaries get loaded depends on which level 
the phone supports, though if there's no ARM7 binary the ARM7 phone 
can run an ARM5 binary. If you want to do the progressive use of 
ARM7 features if ARM7 is available, it's best to let the APK do it 
for you. I don't think that there are any ARM6 devices for Android, 
especially since the NDK doesn't support them, but if you want to 
add ARM6 support for other platforms then cool.

I have just bricked my Sheevaplug by doing a simple "apt-get upgrade"...:-(

No way to get access to it anymore even using the USB direct connection.

I can't get the QEMU network emulation to work at all...

Just spent my whole day trying to make QEMU work fully, I'm giving 
up that option for now. I will try tomorrow to get my sheeva back 
to life.

Thanks there is no guarantee that I am doing it right but I am anxious 
to get it working. Thanks for the help guys.

With empirical debugging, this line passes the compile but make sthe 
execution fail  "fixed button [50 25  "Print"  :get-lines lines] 
gtk-tight"

Are you starting it from a command prompt? If you do, do you get 
any extra output?

Agreed. I tried to combine a GTK with a ZMQ.... I start to get collisions 
on #includes.      Is there an #include/check option that I didnot 
see in Section 10  http://static.red-lang.org/red-system-specs-light.html#section-10.2

Though, technically, I might be able to get Topaz running on the 
phone even quicker...

Switching to Cheyenne project until Saturday, I will do a Cheyenne 
presentation at a PHP event in France on friday, so I need to get 
prepared.

I've tried including two bindings in one program that both include 
the C library binding, and I can't get it to do a single pass over 
the nested include, either with relative or absoltue paths to the 
C library binding

Red/System hello.reds now runs also on Android. If you have a rooted 
device, you can get and run the binary from here: http://sidl.fr/tmp/hello

Oldes: I've pushed a change in master branch, you can now use -v 
5 to get the output of your own code only (with max details).

I am pretty sure that we will find some ways to combine Topaz and 
Red at some point, once both get more mature.

hehehe... don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its perfect.

Shadwolf, something like "bla" . "bla" . "bla" cannot be optimized 
in an interpreter like Topaz, moreover, why the hell should i have 
to write . a hundred times and have an error when i forget it? So, 
no, you won't get this in Topaz.

I'm sorry, it turned out that the venue has a firewall that blocks 
almost everything except HTTP, even outgoing connections on the wired 
network, so we couldn't get through with AltME