AltME groups: search

they have message board, developers forum, per-phone forum etc.

I'd like to be invited a 2nd time so I have an alternate account 
I can use to work around the resync bug (see !Atlme forum messages 
on Monday)

The Gripe:


Go here www.Rebol.org, then go here: http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/, 
then here: http://java.sun.com/, hell even go here, http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/, 
now go back to www.Rebol.com


Even if you don't know what the language is or does, do you want 
to go to Rebol.org?  The main page looks like the last page in the 
basement of a website.  Almost like an "error page"

O There is no single location for all Rebol information.

O Rebol.net, Rebol.com, and Rebol.org are spread out and run by RT. 
O There is no pizzas!
O I don't "feel" community when I visit these sites.


I know I'm not talking to my audience when I say; "think of this 
like a night club" but this is what this is all about.  People want 
to "be where the fun is happening."  Even programmers.

My Suggestion:

O We need a site controlled by the developers.

O We need a forum where people can bitch and meet each other, and 
feel welcome.

O The site needs to have a consistent dynamic attractive template.

O The site needs to be a clearing house for all other sites.  Teach 
and directing people to all the resources.

O The site needs to paint a picture as opposed to describe everything 
with a thousand words.

What is entailed:


O Start a new site, I would propose "RebolCentral.com"  I'm willing 
to pay for it, but I don't want to be in charge of it, I suggest 
we make it a committee.


O The main page should cover every topic and reason anyone would 
come to the site.  This means we support every country and other 
site.  The idea here is a clearing house of centralized information. 


O News: The site needs to gather news worthy information and post 
that at the top.  The site is not alive unless people have a way 
to post their information.  This means that there needs to be at 
least one editor, if not several that share the task.  Every time 
a product is updated, the new features are mentioned.  When Carl 
updates his blog, it gets a single sentence directing people there, 
unless it is news of a release of something.  Etc.


O Product Reviews:   This is key.  Products need to be rated, reviewed, 
categorized, voted on.

O Video Archive: All the videos of all the talks ever given   


O Tutorials:  there are a lot of tutorials out there, but which are 
best?  We need to review the tutorials, rate them by Beginner, Intermediate, 
Advanced.  


O Forum: Start with major topics, and then break it down.  The forum 
needs to direct people to other countries, or support the other countries 
right in the forum.  Great simple forum: http://discussion.treocentral.com/index.php?styleid=1


O Respect the real estate.  The #1 mistake people make is treating 
their websites like just pages.  This is just like real estate, location 
location location.  We need to place the content based on where people 
are going.  So you build the basic site, watch it for a couple of 
weeks, then shift things around based on where people are actually 
going. 


O More art, more photos, more community.   It needs to feel inviting: 
http://msdn.microsoft.com/events/pdc/

Stone soup:


I will pay for, host, and supply a fast linux system (w/archive). 
 

I will help design the templates, and provide (and buy if needed) 
great art for the site.

I will not run the site, nor control the content, but I expect there 
to be in place all the items outlined above, set up in a manner that 
it a) runs itself, b) puts the power in the hands of the developers.

so, I'm somewhat pessemistic about a community collaboration on such 
a project.


Pessimism implies something can fail…what can fail here?  Centralized 
information does not exist.  Building a site that centralizes information 
instantly accomplished the goal, as long as it can be updated by 
the very creation of information.  If it was nothing but an RSS transponder 
it would already accomplish something.


The trick to all of this is simply opening everything up.  Which 
brings up another great example, you blog, and your blogs have 0 
comments.  I blog (to a more private forum not computer related), 
I get anywhere between 20 and 100 comments.  But it is because I'm 
linked off a centralized feed.


People need to be invited in, given places to go, and know that things 
are happening.

Volker, in fact that is sort of what I'm saying.   Except I'm not 
suggesting anyone needs to move their stuff to this site, quite the 
opposite.  The site is to centralize all the information about all 
the other sites and places.  It is mostly a giant voting engine.

The news is just the top stories.

The forum is just a place for people to ask questions, in fact the 
mirror of Rebol3 should be there.


The library would still be over on Rebol.org.  but the reviews would 
be on RebolCentral.com.

Knowing the download is useful, but outright voting/ranking is needed.


Off the top of my head a script needs:

Category
Lines of code
Author(s)
Publisher
License
Requirements
One sentence description.
500 word description.
filesize
Date of last update 
Version

History (when it was updated, lines of code, version numbers, etc).
Screen shots (if applicable)
Average rating
Review formatted as Pro and Con.
Editor's rating & Review
Comments: (hangs off the forum)

I have intermittent problems with Opera. Sometimes it takes a very 
long time to display a page.

When  it works, it is fine; when it is sulking like that, it is a 
total pain. There is some inconclusive discussion in their support 
forum, and they never replied to my feedback/bug notification.

I created a RBOL links thread over at my website for anyone that 
wants a backlink to their REBOL site or rebol app product page.  
You can post a link and image (if desired) at http://www.tretbase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=33&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

For anyone that needs a backlink to their REBOL related pages of 
their website, I offer a REBOL links thread here http://www.tretbase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=33

Win XP user having trouble installing REBOL -- can anyone help?
    http://www.reboltalk.com/forum/index.php/topic,4428.0.html

(that is what Carl considered and I guess he even asked that on some 
forum)

Dang, I replied in Announce. For anyone working on AltME, or an AltME-like 
forum, if you have special groups like Announce, or Links, where 
responses should be hidden by default, don't make us go to another 
group to post them.

In fact, this exchange should be on the front page of RebolTalk.com 
: )


http://www.reboltalk.com/forum/index.php/topic,278.msg937.html#msg937

Sorry, didn't notice the forum, moving to !REBOL3

Dates: many useful conversion functions here:
http://www.codeur.org/forum/edit_msg.php?ID=10636&theme=17

Not sure the best forum to put this on (to where Carl will see it). 
Are there plans in the future for actual bit operations besides and/or/xor? 
RIght now, bit shifting, rotating, etc. are extremely painful (and 
slow compared to what they should be) to do.

The past few weeks I've had more time to devote to Rebol.  I'm working 
on some typical examples and routines to get aquainted with it.  
So I appreciate all the help I'm getting from this forum.  Currently 
just playing with the delete-dir function.

I'm not able to get this to work....is this even possible.....

in the environment: myPath = C:\myTemp

	myPath: probe get-env "myTemp"

 ....(tried several iterations of code here to fix the path perfectly)
	delete-dir myTemp

also tried reduce 

the path has been refomed to //%/myTemp/, %C/myTemp/,  and several 
others forms.

it says that it expects a dir argument of type: file url

I posted a new function in the mezzanine thread at the Tretbase REBOL 
forum http://www.tretbase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30&p=130#p130

Posted the get-block function to the mezzanine thread on the Tretbase 
forum http://www.tretbase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30&p=131#p131

http://www.tretbase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30&p=141#p141

http://www.tretbase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30&p=141#p141

Gabriele, I'm having a little trouble finding your request for the 
DO operation in R3 chat, under the R3/Parse heading (28). I already 
added your DO proposal to the official Parse Proposals page months 
ago (with some semantic cleanup) but if you don't speak up in the 
discussion forum then I will have more trouble convincing Carl. Any 
requests for it here might as well be thrown away - they will be 
long gone before we get to PARSE.

Gab, sorry, I thought you were talking about DocBase (as others were) 
rather than the parse proposals. The reason I mentioned the chat 
is because you keep bringing up the DO operation as if you are trying 
to convince us of its importance, but we all agree with you so it 
doesn't help. I was trying to point you to a forum where trying to 
convince someone about a parse proposal would have some effect.

http://www.tretbase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30&start=10#p141

'activate-on-show : like the name said.

There is different behaviour with it. I notice that on Win2k, the 
window come to front but don't take the window focus. sometimes, 
the window stay behind and just the task button blink (the current 
active window remain active).

But on WinXP, the window become active and take the window focus. 
Very annoying when you are typing something.

I use it to bring a window to top when there is something new (lecture-forum 
script).
I don't w=know how it works on Linux.

I have done some text placement calculation for my RT-style (rich 
text). Result is 99% Draw code.

Graham, you should have a copy of in on your HD as lecture-forum 
use it to show the posts (search "rtd-styles.r" or maybe "rtf-styles.r" 
if it's too old).

java compatibility: yes, it depends on the luck which phone you have. 
It is also possible that the ICQ app is mature enough so it contains 
patches for different phones. Anyway, try to read official Nokia 
dev forum to see really angry developers flaming Nokia for bug XY 
:)

Programming is not all practical, some of it is art form, and people 
have different ideas of what makes "good art".  One person will like 
the forum chat that is 2KB of source because it is 2KB of source, 
even if they can't select text and then get a right click context 
menu to copy it to the clipboard :)

source inform  and source request - Is this a different forum

This AltME client is hard work too, why dosn't the group have a web 
based forum, then I could access it on the PC where my development 
is being done too. AltME is a NoNo for corperate use.

Thanks Steeve, I will try not to post here any more unless I am invited. 
 I have enjoyed trying to learn Rebol & will continue, but I do understand 
that my constant questions are an anoyance, and I dont want to be 
banned from this very usefull forum. :-(

why don't we use a web based forum ?   it would be more reliable 
than this buggy altme ?  I am new to this and I am already having 
a bad impression about the quality of this application.  I have to 
send a message 10 times to get it posted once.

web forum http://synapse-ehr.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?3-Rebol

I have a slow connection  . you see ... sending 3rd time .  

i never had a problem posting a message in any browser based forum. 
  which again show the reliability and resiliency of web based forum 
over this altme.

I'm trying to answer on the forum...

Sunanda, your work on the web archive for AltME and the mailing list 
is fantastic.  A web based front end for _posting_ and reading messages 
to/from both would do wonders for REBOL community involvement and 
growth.  The Darknet really does keep us from having a larger community. 
 It's a shame :(   I created a little hack script a while back that 
would allow web based posting to the mail list, but no one seemed 
interested...  Having a web based forum which aggregates access to 
these two communication channels would do so much to help with promotion 
and community growth.  I'm 110% sure of that!  ...and rebol.org would 
be a great place for it :)

(Of note, it probably requires over 100 times less bandwidth to post 
on AltME than on a regular forum)

I've send a Feedback to AltME, given them the forum link....Time 
for the big guns ;)

The French forum lost many contributors during last years

( I need to parse meta tags description and keywords and abstract 
if they exist -- they can come in any order, there can be one or 
multiple spaces/newlines/tabs between tag arguments, there can be 
" or '  used as argument="asdasd" )
>> doc2: {<head>

{    <title>Dragonicum.com - making the right business connections 
!</title>

{    <meta name="keywords" content="Company Directory, Join Us, Advanced 
Search, Trade Leads, Forum, Trade S

{    hows, Advertising, Translation, fair trade, trade portal, business 
to business, trade leads, trade even
{    ts, china export, china manufacturer" />

{    <meta name="description" content="New international trade portal 
and company directory for Asia, Europe

{     and North America. Our priority No.1 is to create and maintain 
a safe, well lit business-to-business m

{    arketplace, by assisting our members in identifying new trustworthy 
business partners!" />

{    <link rel="stylesheet" href="style/blue_main.css" type="text/css" 
/>}
== {<head>

<title>Dragonicum.com - making the right business connections !</title>
<meta name="keywords" content="Company Directory...


>> T: "" parse doc [ thru "<meta" "name=" skip "keywords" skip "content=" 
m: skip (m1: first m ) copy T to m1  to end ] print T

Company Directory, Join Us, Advanced Search, Trade Leads, Forum, 
Trade Shows, Advertising, Translation, fair trade, trade portal, 
business to business, trade
leads, trade events, china export, china manufacturer

>> T: "" parse doc [ thru "<meta" "name=" skip "description" skip 
"content=" m: skip (m1: first m ) copy T to m1  to end ] print T

>>

( as you see because keywords are first it works for them , but doesn't 
for description , they can be in different order in other document 
etc)

>> T: K: D: "" parse doc [ SOME [ thru "<meta" "name=" skip [ "description" 
(V: 'D) | "keywords" (V: 'K)] skip "content=" m: skip (m1: first 
m ) copy T to m1
(set V T) ]  to end ] ?? K ?? D

K: {Company Directory, Join Us, Advanced Search, Trade Leads, Forum, 
Trade Shows, Advertising, Translation, fair trade, trade portal, 
business to business, tr
ade leads, trade events, china export, china manufacturer}

D: {New international trade portal and company directory for Asia, 
Europe and North America. Our priority No.1 is to create and maintain 
a safe, well lit busi

ness-to-business marketplace, by assisting our members in identifying 
new trustworthy business partners!}

== {New international trade portal and company directory for Asia, 
Europe and North America. Our priority No.1 is to create and mai...
>>

It would be nice if REBOL could LOAD foreign! data.  :)  Hint hint 
wink wink.


And being here in a public REBOL forum I might get in trouble for 
suggesting this one.

$ grep -o -E '\b[a-zA-Z0-9._%+-]+@[a-zA-Z0-9.-]+\.[a-zA-Z]{2,4}\b' 
files...

And actually I think it's wrong anyway ... as it should be.  Posting 
regex in a REBOL forum ... shame on me.   ;)

5 Core developers, maybe 50 that have contributed at some time, 500 
on the mailing list, more than 1000 on the forum, 5000 who download 
each install CD, more than 10,000 who download each live CD and emulator 
image, tens of thousands who come visit when we're on OSNews, roughly 
an order of magnitude more when we're on Slashdot

Into several topics at that 4 forum.

Our forum is the designated place for reporting bugs. Here, basically 
only I will see it

We've had to block many mail domains from the forum, though, due 
to spambots, including gmail.com

Ok; all is clear. Re-reporting relevant bugs at the forum.

Reported on a forum.

someone on french forum reports that the ctrl key doesn't allow to 
select text in text-list like it does in the windows version

ok perfect thank you very much anton i trasmited the reply in the 
french forum

Debian;  The best development model, (ala REBOL).  Deliver when ready 
and ignore the peanut gallery shouting "it's late!"  ;)  


Off-topic; Sadly, my second favourite wiki-forum-chat-combo-thingy, 
TikiWiki, is moving toward the ever useless every 6 months release 
cycle.  Not a valid model for a volunteer workforce, imho.

Gabriele - you should know what you are talking about, no? I use 
MT for 3 years, and the docs are there, there is a forum, there is 
a wiki. It allows so much complicated stuff like traffic bonding, 
easy scheduling/shaping, mangling, scripting, virtual interfaces, 
dynamic lists, etc.  that it is not even funny to compare it to bare-bones 
Linux ....

I'll try to ask in the Arch Linux forum about this tomorrow. There 
probably won't be anyone using REBOL there but maybe a few people 
are willing to try this out. I'm far from being a Linux guru, if 
someone with more experience would try the Word Browser on his Arch 
Linux system, the possibility of a configuration error on my part 
could be ruled out.

your forum seems to be picking speed and users... am I wrong?

It's the only english Rebol web forum out there ...

I'm creating a forum and using R3 CGI to output a page.  How do we 
send the Doctype to page?

I created a new project in Qtask called "IT Think Tank"
The goal is to invite people that like fiddling with Servers.

I realized that I know a lot of people that do this, and they all 
have the same issues, so they might as well share knowledge.


If you would like to be invited to this project, shoot me a private 
message.


The advantage of a group here on Qtask over - lets say - some forum 
on the web is:


-	Knowing each other, or being only one degree of separation tends 
to mean one feels more comfortable asking deeper questions.

-	Being more than a Forum, people can share files, build Qwikis of 
common issues, etc.
-	The people I know tend to be a "click above."

The formation of the International REBOL User Association...Open 
Invitation

26th of May, 2007, 20:00 UTC.  

First Meeting is about to be called to order in the new IRUA forum.

This forum is for formal IRUA messaging only.  IRUA Chat has also 
been created for

informal discussions.  The name is going to change.  Please see the 
agenda and motions
linked below.

Details at http://peoplecards.ca/rebol/formation.html

Perhaps with the size of this forum, paid advertising would work 
against Peter.

RT should look into how Luxology does it with the 3D modeler, Modo. 
That model is worth copying parts of and is probably possible to 
graft onto RT.

Here's how they do it:


- Create a strong and unique product from scratch using people with 
many years of experience in the business.
- Keep a community forum on the main site.

- Keep a community creation portfolio on the main site. That's important, 
perhaps more than the forum.

- Have a charismatic front person who is daily in touch with the 
community. Creates a weekly podcast that also includes personal content 
and interviews.

- This person is so close in contact with the community that he can 
discuss product pricing and licensing with the community.

- Being a private company, they are free to opine on the policies 
of other companies, and Adobe and Autodesk are often criticized openly 
by Luxology.
- Make it really, really, really, REALLY easy to buy the program.
- Make upgrade paths really, really clear.

- Make the licensing scheme very loose. Don't bind it to a platform, 
but to a computer.

- Create content, tutorials and other items that are purchasable 
for a small amount (10-20 USD or so).

- Paid content is really cleverly done as an extension of the program. 
You can buy "kits" that for example let you easily set up studio 
lighting. This allows people to use the program in ways that were 
not originally intended or would be laborious to build on your own. 
In a sense, the 3D modeler is suddenly not only attracting 3D artists 
but photographers as well. It works similarly to how modules would 
work in R3. I suspect this will be one of their main income sources.

- Keep proprietary tech to yourself and license it to various vendors. 
This seems to be what they are mainly making their money on now.


This model works really well for them and they are growing constantly 
and with a fanbase about as strong and loyal as RTs. Luxology feels 
like a distinctively non-corporate entity, and like more a bunch 
of people having fun. Purely through years of word of mouth they 
got their program visible in one of the featurettes for the Avatar 
movie and on the Apple website demoing the Mac Pro. They even have 
guys from Pixar on the forums and making tutorials. Modo is known 
for being different than other 3D modelers much like in the same 
way that REBOL is different from other programming languages, making 
it fun to use.


In a sense REBOL as a product is not dissimilar to Modo (it's fun 
to use) and with their business model already working, I think it 
could be grafted onto RT's business model.

Can someone help make this code less Python and more REBOL:
http://www.reboltalk.com/forum/index.php/topic,2561.0.html

Thank you Pekr and Sunanda for your replies and suggestion on my 
question about unicode and cyrillic. I tried ascii-chart script and 
it unfortunately doesn't show any cyrillic letters :-(  I understand 
you, I have to wait until r3 is released, but I don't want to wait 
for it (as I can see from forum posts it could be not very soon).

If you guys get some good  mezzanines please post them on my Mezzanine 
thread.  http://www.tretbase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30Also, 
if anyone wants to make the current ones posted more efficient please 
do.

Here is a post about the read-io function for newbies.  http://www.tretbase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=55&p=128#p128

from here you can access rebelBB (forum built using parse) or the 
wiki with lots of documents

I will ask Christopher for his assistance,  I think this may not 
be the right forum to answer this question.

you have to be aware that in that time we as a french community through 
our own forum tried to  answer this question "is it posible to do 
multitasking in rebol as it?"

It seems to be possible to write C wrappers for managed code too: 
http://www.dotnetmonster.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/dotnet-interop/5678/Can-Unmanaged-Code-call-LoadLibrary-on-a-managed-DLL

Machinarium called a beautiful program in Verity Stob article:
http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2010/03/01/stob_flash/
[page 4, last paragraph]

REBOL's stay on Tiobe was very short:
http://www.reboltalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=212.0

The funny thing about this project is that a time of opening their 
FORUM-Websote they had instatly 3000 registered users online ;-)

Jerry;  Check out the Dialects forum.  Geomol has written a starter 
bbcbasic interpretter in REBOL.

For those that collect programming languages;  HoltSoft the developers 
of Turing have gone out of business.  Dr Holt has moved on.  Turing 
is in wide spread use amongst Ontario High Schools.  (Sad, my home 
province pumped out an entire generation of programmers of a dead 
training language)  Anyway, they had posted it free for non-commercial 
use  on their website, which is now shutdown.   The admin of compsci.ca 
has posted it to their forum board.  This could well be a time limited 
offer.   I don't know all the details of Turing, but this version 
was commercial and proprietary before the shutdown announcement and 
posting of the free copies.   http://compsci.ca/holtsoft/

I'm not real sure, but some of the people on the compsci forum mention 
learning it right it grade 9, some in 10, some in 11.  Again, it 
seems to be Ontario.   Let's hope UnIcon lives to a ripe old age. 
 Turing, not so sure; it was designed for teaching but as we all 
know; you're first is hard to forget and it may take on a life of 
its own, similar to the whole Pascal field.

Petr re nails;  I don't think so ... maybe, but not in the grand 
scheme.  I only got into flash because Oldes has a REBOL dialect. 
 I only got into REBOL, because it Rocks!   Feel sad for those that 
don't get it.  It really is a "secret weapon" for those that use 
it.


If you believe the TIOBE numbers, REBOL is still well below 0.09 
percent (the lowest they list of the top 50)  We have lots and lots 
of wiggle room.   Paul's new database, Henriks work on Forum, the 
Doc, R3; all positive moves.  I think the only thing that may give 
REBOL a 'quick explosive adoption boost' is a Free Software announcement, 
but I like and respect Carl's decision in that area.  So slow and 
steady may win the race in the long haul.   REBOL is well beyond 
the 'hype' phase and we still love it.  And every few days now, people 
like John give others yet another reason to check it out.  Long live 
R2, Longer live R3.


Once Reichart gets his empire built, that will only be another boost 
to the public face of REBOL as well.   Gabriele, BrianH, Ashley, 
 Graham, umm everybody; making large and small contributions adds 
to the fire.


Well and you doing some high level marketing can't hurt either.  
Keep it up and keep digging.  REBOL is in for the duration from what 
I can see.  And hey, I'm trying my best to drag some of the up and 
coming coders on compsci.ca to the REBOL light.  At least we know 
that REBOL is not a flash in the pan.   We do need to promote people 
like Sunanda a little more perhaps.  The base of rebol.org is terrific 
but it's mosly hidden, much like Altme.

Go rebols go!

I tried, but I can't edit my comment. I sent feedback. I'm hoping 
to fix it before someone points out the error in a public forum.

We should install supporting tools (forum, some CVS) and get things 
rolling much faster ...

I thought of a great idea to stop forum spammers and probably others. 
 I don't know how it can be thwarted.

seems only part one is up yet. I followed this thread:


http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=32696&forum=2

that's not communautary work... that's not the way a community should 
work you think the guys in blender, gtk+ the gimp etc... work without 
exchanging informations each on their corners and that's how their 
projects goes on? We are not alot so we need to be more focused than 
any other and creating distansions and oposing the gurus to the rest 
of the world isn't the right path. But as yuri said on another forum 
lesson 1 rebol is a bobbistic language, it's the hobby of Carl and 
the hobby of most of us and that's why when it sucks people disapears 
to do other things.

funny how I am starting to like the guys at comodore usa !  :-o


when I read through the forum on their "fan" site, the guy in charge 
is quite level headed, knows the scene and actually embodies more 
of the spirit that went into the first commodore & amiga.   just 
do it.

Ideas are in the works to alleviate as much of this as possible. 
 Stay tuned.  It is not

a non-issue, and will be thought through.  Opinions, complaints, 
suggestions

appreciated.  I think the Libary Team forum is good for that, but 
so is this one, as well 
as Core.

And I don't mean too smart in a bad way.  The computer IQ in this 
forum is off the scale

Just curious if anyone has any info on tables in vid3. They were 
pretty poor in R2 but I think they are a key element for many apps. 
I took a quick look at "turbogrid" mentioned in the Tech News forum 
and its crap. it's Ajax based.  A list-view based app in a plug in 
would blow it away.

For the record: I was opposed to the idea of Fireside from the beginning, 
because I thought he meant yet another forum/communications channel, 
since he talked a bit about allowing communication with "hundreds 
of users", not so impressive. We have enough of that with AltME.

When he talked about the existing framework, the working prototype, 
the source code altering and finally the code submission model, I 
changed my mind. I think this tool can be very powerful.

I wrote a lengthy post, hoping to start a constructive discussion 
on how we could increase Rebol's popularity and enbiggen (I know 
it's not a real word, but I didn't want to use "increase" twice in 
one sentense :P) it's userbase. I hope this is something more people 
are thinking about now that Rebol 3 is imminent. Please have a look 
at http://www.reboltalk.com/forum/index.php/topic,1513.0.html


(I'm not trying to draw people away from Altme, but I think there's 
a need for a good Rebol forum too! :))

a stronger link betwin 

networking" and "visual" modules ??? hum that's like if Carl was 
preteneding we can't already do that !!??"


I haven't mentioned this, because I was afraid I would get it wrong 
and Carl would bash me for it. :-) What I'm writing here below is 
one of the reasons to switch to a webbrowser mentality. It was also 
one of the the reasons for dumping VID3.


Webbrowser mentality helps building infrastructure, very quickly. 
There is allegedly a stronger link now between VID and networking 
in the same way as there is a link between HTML and HTTP. When you 
create a link in a webpage, it takes only a few tags in one line 
of code (even inline) to do that. You don't do anything else but 
provide the link. The browser takes care of the rest, and you can 
build an entire infrastructure with hyperlinks. You don't have to 
worry about TCP ports or wait for acknowledge from the server. The 
basic philosophy that goes behind hyperlinking is its extreme simplicity, 
which is why it's so widespread. It's easy to grasp and easy to code.

When you for example write in a forum, you are often capable of providing 
hyperlinks. As a result, hyperlinking is available to any users, 
who have just the basic knowledge of coding, which to them is "typing 
funny chars to make a link".

Carl wants the same thing in VID3.4, where you must currently work 
with ports, store things in words and do something with the words 
in order to get where you need to go. You need to do some programming 
and make complex decisions. That level of detail must not go away 
of course, but there is a simplifying element that's missing, and 
that is to use buttons directly as hyperlinks. If successful, anyone 
could code simple VID GUIs.


I'm still sure I'm getting it a bit wrong, so there's not much point 
discussing it right now. He emphasized very strongly about building 
infrastructure through very simple methods that most people can understand 
and use. He talked about this more than about VID itself.

VID was already simple  in comparasion to what are the other libraries 
I don't know if you ever tryed to deal with transparencies with raw 
X llibrary that pain in the head number 1  ^^.   Well i'm not against 
simplifying the system but first how does the industry shape their 
GUI 99.9 percent of the time the GUI  is build using a GUI designer 
and the only thing you have to do is set thru the GUI designer interface 
the settings for the widgets you graphically picked and organised 
then you have to write the call back code... Then to take your example 
back with the hyperlink people then don't code they only format text 
en even then most of now in days forum like PHP BB  use javascripted/pugined 
rich text area  to format their  text you push a button it insert 
the text the way you want. and some of them on the php engine level 
are able to recognize http:// footage to build on the fly the hyperlink 
without requiering any tag adding by the user .... I'm not sure separating 
the way you organise the widget to the way you configure them will 
lead us to more easy way

Chris, I think the thing we lack in REBOL is that we don't have any 
collaborations really.  What I mean is the partnering of each others 
products and putting them out as a solution.  Think of QM and TRETBASE 
or some other product and then maybe that powering Henriks forum 
just to give you an idea.

A web forum is also being created --- eg. vbulletin or phpBB to support 
non-altme users

And yes, I am fully aware of what a web-public forum is.

The current issue is a forum to make R3 communication more transparent, 
yet you are railing against it

I strongly support a forum... I just don't support a forum which 
doesn't exist in any form.

The other issue is that at the current stage of development, R3 needs 
apps. We need network apps to test the network infrastructure, GUI 
apps to test that, the list goes on. We don't need these to do a 
development release of R3, but we need to do a development release 
of R3 to get these apps made. You didn't think that Carl was going 
to delay the R3 release to write a forum, did you?

People are going to use REBOL to write forum software, or the many 
applications that do the same thing, technologically speaking. We 
will need to have test apps of that nature to make sure that apps 
of that kind will work. The reason that tool-builders use their own 
tools during their development process is to make sure that their 
tools work, and to get ideas. That is why other programming languages 
use tools built in those programming languages.

Motivated to add counter-measures.  Activated the PoL (Proof of Life) 
code.  I'll watch the logs for a while but I think the rbbs.r on 
peoplecards should now be closer to immune from the robot spammer 
that tagged me a few months back.


Terry; Might be a good idea.  Promoting Cheyenne, promoting Semantic 
Database and building something rebols can use for a forum all at 
the same time.  Many birds, few stones.

dockimbel, I'm using RSP for the forum and it's working great so 
far. no problems.

Yes, that gives quite extreme performance. It's an elegant way to 
solve the problem of caching that others are providing via expensive 
slap-on solutions rather than by design. This is also why I got the 
idea that you would be able to create VID-like applications in the 
browser, because data is always resident server side, like an app.

The session data problem gets reversed: You have to avoid data to 
spill over to the next user of the app. This could provide a very 
unique way to handle form data, by simply dumping POST data in a 
resident object. Then you can quietly decide what to do with that 
data without having to worry that it's forgotten at the next page 
load.


Session data is about storing that data in a context isolated for 
that user. I've not studied closely how Cheyenne handles session 
data, but I've been working a bit on the form issues for REBOL/Forum.

Lots of other people seeing overheavy  Chrome caching, eg:

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Chrome/thread?tid=77a9194da602bc00&hl=en