AltME groups: search

Kaj, I did a Google search on isNaN and cannot find a list of C libraries 
that don't support it (or that do).  Do you have any ideas on how 
to do this check?

AdrianS: Unfortunately, it won't work for me:

From their FAQ:
1.3 Does Everything search file contents?

No, "Everything" does not search file contents, only file and folder 
names.


I find that I search within file contents at least as much as for 
filenames.  It shouldn't be too hard to write a Rebol-based standalone 
exe that would do this.  I'll add it to my growing list of scripts 
to write.

I believe Red can find a market:  http://www.drdobbs.com/jvm/the-quiet-revolution-in-programming/240152206?cid=DDJ_nl_upd_2013-04-03_h&elq=6510ad5ddf4b42adb5b3cd05ed730e24

So, how does it work? When you need to interrupt the flow of code 
in a function in Red/System, currently you can just use EXIT/RETURN 
to make an early exit. But, sometimes, you need to go up through 
several nested calls, that's where the new THROW function comes handy. 
It will interrupt the execution and go up the call tree to find the 
first function that has the CATCH attribut set. It will then just 
resume execution after the last function call (from which the exception 
has been generated).


If no CATCH attribut is found, it will go up to global code and resume 
from there.

I've considered using a continuation approach for constant-time exception 
throwing (would also work from callbacks), but I didn't find a simple 
enough syntax for defining/using it without having to rely on CPS 
(Continuation-Passing Style) for every functions...

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation-passing_style

You can find it at:


https://github.com/PeterWAWood/Red-System-Libs/blob/master/UTF-8/ucs4-utf8.reds

Kaj - You can find a rough and ready  red-string! to  c-string! function 
at:


https://github.com/PeterWAWood/Red-System-Libs/blob/master/UTF-8/string-c-string.reds


it #includes the UCS4 character to UTF8 convertor which you will 
need in the same directory as the string-c-string func.

Didn´t you already replace SELECT with FIND in other places?

I would prefer it would not exist. I find "do/args %rsc.r "-v 5 %tests/hello.reds"" 
still being rather cryptic and I hope everything gets replaced, once 
we get red.exe?

Why is it such a problem to have some criticism, too?

 There is no problem with that, and believe me, you can't be more 
 critical on Red that I am myself. But I find it really unfair to 
 paint a bad picture of whole Red because some features that are planned 
 are not yet implemented. 


I can't go faster than the music, to get I/O done with required encoders/decoders, 
I need to setup the ports/devices infrastructure. To do that, I need 
objects support done. Also, as shown by my entries on Red Trello 
page, error! (and typeset!) support and getting a Unicode runtime 
lexer are even more prioritary to make Red "more usable for real-world 
apps". Moreover, when you manage a lot of tasks, some of them marked 
as "important" that keep been postponed because of other more urgent 
ones, will at some point become "urgent" themselves. That is what 
is happening with shared libs support, which is a blocker for getting 
Red on Android and iOS. I'll also probably make a Java bridge prototype 
this week before getting back on other Red features.

Almost forgot about the Trello page. Do you use that page as an interim 
planning for what is actually being worked on? If so, and once you 
have few minutes of spare time (I can imagine you don't :-), maybe 
one sentence reference on the Roadmap page would make it a nice addition:

You can find actual tasks we work on on the following Trello page

 .... it would make feel ppl more dynamic about the project, as Roadmap 
 page is rather static. OTOH we can watch Git commits, twitter, but 
 still if one needs to know, what is an actual priority, and as far 
 as Trello page is being updated, it would make some sense. E.g. "Download" 
 addtion was imo very nic simplification for those starting with Red 
 ...

One of my goals is to have as much working at the mezz level as possible, 
so you don't have to write more natives in these early stages. Once 
we find actual cases that aren't efficient enough, then we can optimize 
them.

Does Red attempt to answer Carl's old question of passing big options? 
Carl wrote a document on this once, but I can't find it.

Well, looking into binary .class, I expected it being some kind of 
executable or package, just pressing Enter does nothing :-) So it 
is not mapped to JRE on my machine .... I selected it manually, and 
it says:

Could not find or load main class, or something like that ...

I thought about it already as one of the ways to produce a shared 
lib, in some of my recent scripts there's already a `Type: 'dll` 
header field, but `library` is probably nicer. I will implement support 
for it when I'll find time as it's a minor feature.

Ok, so the main problem will be, that oh/headers-size = 1024, but 
the pointer to code as a first section is 512. Now I must find why.

and I can find red.r in the main directory. Whne I hit enter, it 
just launches the console. But maybe I am missusing it :-)

However using JFrame you need to add the child to the JFrame's content 
pane instead: frame.getContentPane().add(child);


JFrame is part of Swing, Swing is not AWT. I can't find a getContentPane() 
method for java.awt.Frame class.

513 ~/Downloads$ chmod +x GTK-browser 
514 ~/Downloads$ ./GTK-browser 
dyld: Library not loaded: /usr/lib/libgthread-2.0.dylib
  Referenced from: /Users/john/Downloads/./GTK-browser
  Reason: no suitable image found.  Did find:

 /usr/local/lib/libgthread-2.0.dylib: mach-o, but wrong architecture
Trace/BPT trap: 5

Hm, then you have to find out how to get Homebrew to compile 32 bit 
versions of all that

WHAT is to find out what stuff is attached under an object. I use 
(d) it a lot with VID, finding out which field was filled with what 
value to see how I could go about dynamically change the properties 
like captions and values and colors.

Geomol - try to understand your example. Imagine html file for e.g. 
Your [to a | to b ...] is wrong ... imagine 'a is at the end of the 
file. Simply "to a" will find it, before "to b" is even given chance 
to be applied. What we want is - find what is first - 'a or 'b ....

What I don't agree with Doc and Gab is - if you are a guru, just 
don't use idioms! But plese - don't take them from those, who might 
find them usefull! I remember, during the parse history, that exactly 
such idiom was often requested and ppl were not able to use parse 
without it, because they were not able to understand the rule Ladislav 
provided. And - will we suggest them not to use parse? That's imo 
not rebolish ....

Ladislav, so simple question - so would you discard to [a | b]  from 
the R3? Do you find it as a performance penalty, or teaching ppl 
wrong habits, preventing them to actually understand, what is parse 
about, or something like that?

Do you find it as a performance penalty, or teaching ppl wrong habits, 
preventing them to actually understand, what is parse about, or something 
like that?

 - The answer is "no" to all the above questions. It is neither a 
 performance penalty, nor teaching people wrong habits or prevent 
 them to actually understand...

Doc, in your last ticket fix example: mp1/mp-digit: allocate 10 ---- 
where does 'allocate comes from? Can't find it in docs. Or is that 
just out of context example, and 'allocate is some wrapper to 'malloc?

I am runing %red.r for %0MQ-request-client.red but failing on 
#include %../common/common.red
It looks like it would be from 
https://github.com/dockimbel/Red.git
but I don't find any common/ directory

I am probably mis-aligning my zmq directories but don't have anything 
but common.reds from clones.
Any hints to help me find my path?

SYS: It seems that not much is required to add to the PE file itself, 
I see no additional sections needed. However, it requires a proper 
checksum in the header. That checksum is either calculated using 
Windows API or the algorithm could be implemented directly in Rebol. 
In the first case, it shouldn't take more than an hour to add support 
to it, in second case a day or two. The main issue would be to find 
a simple way to test it once generated? Any idea?

@Arnold I write the Mersenne Twister random function in Red/System 
according to an educational C standard library implementation ( http://code.google.com/p/c-standard-library/source/browse/src/internal/_rand.c
). Hope you find it useful. you can read it from here: https://gist.github.com/qtxie/5831308

New try for the Red port on Android demo:
http://static.red-lang.org/hello2.apk


This time it should work fine on all devices, please let me know 
if you find any issues. Just be sure to uninstall previous version 
before installing this one (just to be sure you won't report false 
positives).

Thank you it compiled. Now I have to find out what this means
*** Error: word has no value!

*** Script error: action 42 not defined for type: 2
logout

Generally speaking, I drastic approach is to comment everything out 
and gradually uncomment lines until you find the place where the 
problem gets introduced.

I am not familiar with Kaj's Libraries but I searched ANSi.reds and 
the Red/System runtime to try to find where as-binary is defined. 
I guess it must be in one of Kaj's other libraries.


I noticed the ANSI.reds includes %common/FPU-configuration.reds but 
couldn't find that in Kaj's Repo. (It doesn't sound as though it 
would include a definition of as-binary though).

Getting closer. I now have jarsigner but the cmd expected to see 
it in the root dir. So I just placed jarsigner there along with the 
jli.dll.  That may not be a good idea because it seems to do its 
thing but finally dies with:
Signing apk...

Error: Could not find or load main class sun.security.tools.JarSigner
Aligning apk...
Unable to open 'builds\eval-signed.apk' as zip archive

I can't even find a way to open a terminal in 12.04...why do they 
need to mess up things like that on new versions...

OK.  I have this snippet of Red/System code that is giving me an 
access violation.  I can't seem to find why:

dirs-file: as-c-string 64
dirs-file: "to-process/dirs.txt"
dirs: as-c-string 1024

dirs: read-file dirs-file	;'dirs now contains the contents of %to-process/dirs.txt
eol: as-c-string 1024
eol: find-char dirs #"^/"	;Finds the first end-of-line character
line-len: as-integer eol - dirs

print-line line-len	;In my example, this returns 24, which is correct

first-line: as-c-string (line-len + 1)	;An extra byte for #"^(00)" 
to be safe

copy-string-part first-line dirs as-integer eol - dirs	;Access violation. 
 Why?

But with it reversed, it looks strange.  It's the opposite of the 
order of 'append-string, 'find-string and all those other operations 
now.

Here's the troubling bit of code:

	dirs: make-c-string 1024
	dirs: read-file "to-process/dirs.txt"

	eol: make-c-string 1024
	eol: find-char dirs #"^/" ;Finds the first end-of-line character

 line-len: as-integer eol - dirs + 1 ;Add one byte for the end-of-string 
 character
	first-line: make-c-string line-len
	copy-string-part dirs first-line as-integer eol - dirs ;reversed
	first-line/line-len: #"^(00)"

Shouldn't 'find-char dirs #"^/" return the first newline byte?

It's working now.  Thanks for all your detective work!  I don't know 
how you can find bugs so fast.

Should be able to find a free download via Microsoft site.  I think 
it is include in the Driver Development kit.

Where can I find your I/O binding Kaj?

As for news channels - if there is anything new, and my time and 
skills permit, I do post. It is a pity, it is not reposted to your 
blog, it looks really dated with latest 0.3.2 Repl release :-( I 
find it a bad strategy, the project seems a bit stalled, at least 
Git get propagated there ....

Sorry Doc on the pdb thing.  I don't think your going to find a pdb 
file format.  Closest I seen was this that someone may have been 
trying to reverse engineer https://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=22685.

And Doc himself claims from very beginning, that R/S is mostly for 
integrators, as you are. Most ppl will look into Red, and find such 
features missing. I am really not interested into some Curl binding, 
I want Rebol level ports, etc. based networking. So our milleage 
might vary ...

I expressed my need for R2 like dll interface for R3, as I find it 
easier to use R/S than R3 extensions, and guys said, it will come 
...

You also have to install REBOL for it. Do you also find that a big 
issue?

Take it easy, I have no problem with your Fossil usage.. I just wanted 
to tell you, that someone else may find it not so friendly. Off topic 
btw.

Never saw such a link for download.r before (and don't find anything 
using AltME search either, but then ...).

I find the PICK version easier and faster to type, but that's just 
personal taste. :-)

In any case, you might find my attempts at a CMake-based build useful, 
as I explicitly list the `make prep` scripts and their dependencies 
there:

https://github.com/earl/r3/blob/wip-cmake/CMakeLists.txt#L109

Raspberry Pi is just medial thing. That thing is just small computer, 
nothing more imo, much hyped, than usefull, unless you build some 
kind of min-pc or player. IMO something like Beagle Bone (Black), 
with many IO pins, is more interesting. BTW - during SO chat, Carl 
mentioned he is getting Beagle Bone Black. That's imo, where Rebol 
could find some niche - embedded, automatition, etc.

my two cents.  

funny that all of these formats basically can be converted from one 
to the other in a few lines of parse.  


these text-based formats  may be super cool in non rebol scene, but 
I find this whole discussion about which equivalent to use... well 
... a bit anemic.


why not just use our own format internally and import from other 
formats at will... I mean really, its very easy to do.


I've been working with an extensible wiki format in QM and have been 
adding new things to it.  I don't see why we want to limit ourself 
to headers and titles and still wonder which one of the incapable 
formats to use.   are we using Rebol or are we trying to be as limited 
as all the others?  I mean, when I look at QM's wiki format I can 
add new specs in about 5 minutes, including supporting code which 
spits out html.  


 I think this kind of coding is something which must be leveraged 
 in any Open rebol project. let's allow people to import docs in whatever 
 format and manage them using something that makes sense for us?  
 including more expansive tags which are tailored for different sections 
 like a dictionnary, tutorials, traditional docs, guides, etc.

I have found that R3 is able to load my UTF16LE file correctly using 
'read/string (it "see" the BOM and transcode it to rebol string!).


Now I have to find a way to write to the file as a UTF-16 with a 
litle endian BOM format.

I hope to find some time tomorrow to look at them. Otherwise on Monday.

And you could probably find other languages with similar, but other 
syntax, and programmers from those languages would ask for their 
way and on and on. Do it in a preprocessor!

Obviusly "pros" will like not having them but if they think like 
a newbye or even like a semi-pro I suppose they will find the usefullness 
of this imporvemente.

I think, most will find it harder to read with comments in the middle 
of lines. You can break code over more lines in REBOL, and that way 
add comments in the middle of lines.

Or maybe better than my do-this example, create a dialect, where 
all function calls work with named arguments. The parsing then need 
to look for words, that are functions, find out how many arguments 
they take and remove the argument names. And do it recursively also. 
Should be possible, I think.

I can't find a problem in it, but I'm not sure, if I like it.

Gregg, Oldes, it is a feature for people who like it.

Having verbose lines really help understand the language but it is 
not for all. I think about it for new user and to say to the world 
"you can write human language resembling lines".

I was sure that professional rebolers would not find this useful... 
but it is not useful for them, for us, it is for another part of 
the world.

Ladislav, I disagree with your (not so) hidden opinion that the feature 
I proposed is not useful at all.

During my early days and even now I find difficult to uderstand REBOL 
code without "connectors" words which makes a line more descriptive.

I agree that dialecting is a big advancement. I also like the opportinity 
to write "first, second,... last" but  adding ";" should be a big 
change and you should really walk in the shoes of a newbie where 
reading a line with connector words really makes the difference.

Giuseppe, I know you think it will help, but that doesn't mean it 
will. So, do an experiment to find out. Or look at other languages 
and see how many successful languages do it. VB was widely adopted 
by non-programmers and it had very few connecting words. FOR and 
FOR EACH being the main examples.

Ladislav, why don't you try to add this feature and lets see if the 
user will like it ?
 - I think I did explained it sufficiently:

- such a feature has been implemented in a language since 1959

- I do not feel responsible for implementing every feature you may 
find useful

Maybe if you could find libraries, that can do this, and call them. 
World can call routines in libs, and REBOL can too (afaik).

A question for AdrianS or other lurkers: I already mentioned that 
SUMN actually used unevaluated argument passing style (APS). Do you 
find that style appropriate or would you prefer SUMN to use a different 
APS? (Consult https://github.com/saphirion/documentation/blob/master/argpass.mdp
if you don't know what I am talking about).

Advantages of using evaluated APS for SUMN:


- argument can be a result of an expression, i.e., the function would 
be referentially transparent in the sense that it would accept expression 
results, e.g. sumn 1 2 * 3

Disadvantages of evaluated APS for SUMN:


- (sumn 1 2) would not work since the function would miss a stopping 
argument

Advantages of using literal APS for SUMN:


- partiall referential transparency, the function can accept result 
of an expression, if the expression is in parentheses, i.e. sumn 
1 (2 * 3) would work
- partial referential transparency, sumn 1 :x * 3 would work

- (sumn 1 2) would work, since the literal APS obtains the stopping 
#[unset!]

Disadvantages:

- sumn 1 2 * 3 would not work
- sumn 1 x would not work either

Advantages of using unevaluated APS for SUMN:


- (sumn 1 2) would work, since the literal APS obtains the stopping 
#[unset!] at the end of the paren
- sumn 1 (2 * 3) can be made to work if desired
- sumn 1 x can be made to work if desired

Disadvantages:

- sumn 1 2 * 3 would not work
- sumn 1 :x * 3 would not work

@BrianH, I searched CureCode, but couldn't find any notes from you 
on SPLIT, other than one that said you think it needs a rewrite.

And related: have there been thoughts about setting origin of images 
in the lower left corner instead of upper left? When I use REBOL 
to draw graphs (of scientic values), I always find myself flipping 
the y-axis. Putting origin in lower left should make such code easier. 
Textures in OpenGL has origin in lower left.

@Graham: GitX; found another alternative very promising, even did 
a fetch(!) from the master branch I wanted but could find nowhere: 
sourcetree 
http://www.sourcetreeapp.com/

The head of OpenCOBOL shouldn't be hard to find

paul  -- try it: you already can:

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/search.r?find=sendmessagetimeout


There is already a win-api domain, so any script can be flagged as 
containing such commands:
http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/list-all-filters.r

REBOL is an interpreted, internet messaging language. Highly flexible, 
REBOL 

saves time by reducing the amount of code you need to write. Code 
and data are 

the same. You can find and collapse repetitive patterns in data or 
code. Write 

your own dialects. Very easy to install, test and debug. Use the 
text editor you 
like.

Well, IIRC the desktop code had once been released by Carl in the 
hope to get derived versions. So, publishing it _should_ be OK, I 
guess ;-)

But then, as I didn't used the published source (and don't find it 
at the moment), I'm not sure which license would be right.

Neither rebol itself, nor me are able to find a rebol header in the 
file.

Anton. as far as using Google and removing the phrase, "probe system/" 
that's as simple as adding -"probe system/" to your search phrase 
BUT Google doesn't acknowledge "/" as being anything other than whitespace. 
 Still, the fact that I couldn't even find it with Google was an 
implication that WE can beat Google.

Sunanda,  I didn't try that.  I had assumed that search would use 
that index as a key.  Is there a way to search the topic index other 
than by clicking on a letter in the alphebetical list and relying 
on the browser's find functionality?

Sunanda, same number of mouse clicks: Yes. Same distance: No, you're 
a whole page away from what you're looking for. And if you don't 
know or don't remember that, you'll have to find the search before 
searching (pun intended ;-)

no matter what, I find AltME as the quickest channel to get answer 
to specific problem .... we just irationally stopped new members 
to join this world ....

it is difficult to find out, how to join ...

As Reichart says somewhere, Altme REBOL3 is great for quick problem 
solving. But you have to find it first. Like most of the REBOLsphere 
it is close to invisible

(eg eFishAnt's recent serach for a REBOL hex editor. They exist: 
but can you find them?)


REBOL.org is just about the only exception to the invisibleness of 
the REBOLsphere -- try looking in Google for
   script library
as an example.

Is q-plot.r still in the rebol.org library? Couldn't find it, only 
found ez-plot.r

You replied as I was typing....
I think you may be right.......

Looks like the downloader has failed to find the files that contain 
a + in the file names.

I then looked int RSP, it was not exactly what I require, but was 
at least complete solution. Dunno what happened to http://www.shlik.org
, maybe Maarten moved that? I can find only some reference on rogss-gill

I was just shopping for kb today... but end up with nothing. Could 
not find one that fits my needs

I am interested to find a good Mechanical person who wants to work 
on a manufacturable version with me.

Designs coming and going .....That's why I'd like to keep the keyboard 
that works for me........But only after I find it.

But then I still use a personal fountain pen rather than utility 
biros.  May be I'm old-fashioned.

I like Mozilla's Find-as-type facility ... you simply start writing 
word and cursor moves around the screen - F3 - next occurance, enter 
- choose, backspace - back to previous page etc

Gabriele's Temple uses  class and id elements to mark certain html 
page areas to be filled with data. Then he has functions like find-by-class 
find-by-id etc. That may impose certain logic on how you mark your 
html sections with class and id elemetns - simply data oriented. 
But design (css) may or may not on-pair with it - you simply might 
want to use class and id elements in different way ..

The biggest advatnage you'll find in workflow is when the client 
starts making changes.


1000 pages all with <font color=blue> and they now want all <p>s 
to be green -- that's not a search and replace job -- you need to 
check the context of each <font> tag.. It might take hours. Next 
day, they ask for dark yellow.
In css:

p {color:blue} -- you can show them the whole site changed in 1 minute.


Though, of course, you need to think through the styles you need 
first. That's a big bit of the design.

rebol.org library already have tagging for the scripts.


Both in terms of levels ["Beginner" "Intermediate" "Advanced"] as 
well as the domain ["cgi" "gui"] etc...


Perhaps there is a way to feed the cookbook examples into rebol.org 
and let the Library be the holding place for future cookbook examples.


There are '3 major' rebol sites (those with rebol in the domain). 
And they are rebol.com, rebol.net, rebol.org.

It is not incredibly clear whether certain docs should be in .org 
or .net. 


Other suggestion to consider is how can we leverage off works done 
in various sites and avoid duplication. Why not let rebol.org be 
the host for cookbooks as well?


I would think new comers will prefer to find both cookbook examples 
and other contributed scripts all in one location. Rebol.org also 
lets you search the mailing list.

Henrik --- One question: how good is the SEO on your site? Little 
point putting cookbook entries where they are hard for the world 
to find.


One idea: why not write a wiki-formatting to HTML function (you'll 
need it anyway) and donate it to the Library ?.....

.... REBOL.org can then accept cookbook entries and other articles 
in wiki format --- we already accept all other major formats: MakeDoc, 
NicomDoc, eText etc.  And we do have good SEO.

Oldes - what is the real purpose of your dialect? Is it just for 
you, who likes REBOL coding? I mean - do you think that eventual 
Flash "programmer" could find such way of creating Flash stuff useful?

I find it useful and that's enough.

Petr: It's been a goal of mine to find a place for Rebol/Flash within 
QM.

That would lead into same bytecode. I was thinking about something 
else... something like:
set-if-undefined something defaultValue 

but cannot find name for it. But because it's usually inside function, 
maybe I could add default value settings inside fhe func definition 
block. But I'm not sure now if I need it so much.

flash is on zero browsers until installed...I've set up machines 
at work for guys in the firehouse to use. Every computer there gathers 
so much adware/spyware/viruses that I can never keep up cleaning 
them. I've had to re-install windows so many times and each time 
I have to re-install the latest flash player. I resorted to setting 
up puppy linux and running off a bootable cd..(with the typical complaints 
about it not being windows) Anyway...rebol plug-in is easire to download 
than flash so what's the bigdeal. I install active-x controls all 
the time when I find a site that interests me and needs the control.

Oldes, where can I find the tracer.swf file that is included in this 
example?
http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/examples/swf8/swf8-iconlist.rswf

hmm, just looking at sources of mySQL and I can find pthreads are 
there, so they might use photothreads? Carl once wanted me to remind 
him of that. So Jaime, if you know libevent is considered for even 
loop, you might once again point Carl to http://www.sics.se/~adam/pt/
, but maybe he has already decided how to do such things properly 
for REBOL 3.0 :-)

hmm, I just read about allpeers extension for Firefox, which is supposed 
to become a killer app! What will it allow? To share amongst defined 
set of friends, so riaa and mpaa can't find you ... altme anyone? 
It is a pity plug-in is not production ready, or such solution could 
be introduced by rebol app :-)

I find it hard to believe that any new "pc" can be 2-3x faster than 
another.  What metric are they using??

Hi, after reading at Henrik comments I want to buy a Mac Mini (but 
have never used a Mac before). What are the cons for using the Mac 
mini ? I find the PC barebones a bit noisy b/c they still have a 
fan so I don't get how the Mini works without any fans ? I OSX has 
a BSD-like API, why is it taking RT so long to get the new core release 
supported ? thank