AltME groups: search

Ah! Sorry Kaj - I missed that vital bit of info - I will go and find 
it  now

I got it to work also three hours ago (had only a VGA monitor, passive 
adapters didn't work, I had to find another monitor)

Well I changed some text in this file, I changed it online in a black 
background box where I could not see my cursor nor the arrow pointer, 
so it sucked :( 

I thought it would be possible to edit the file offline but that 
is something to find out how to do next time ;)

Now I added a comment and it says I want to commit 182 changes into 
the master branch, which is not what I want, but Github says I want 
that. Including my comments it could be I typed in total 182 characters 
including the ones I deleted (?) but the 182 are the commits from 
the 0.3.0 branche I think. 

Me and my friend Github >:|

We already have discussed this in the tracker, but I can't find the 
related tickets...

Kaj: I can't find the URL for Glib repo?

Yes, so if you strip that down further, you should find the cause

I'll find you some more bugs in the bindings that run on top of GTK 
;-)

Needed 6 programs to do that! Schermafbeelding (screenshot?) to make 
the picture, Spotlight to find it, Imagewell to change tiff to jpg 
Preview to check Finder to put it in the right directory Filezilla 
to transfer Safari to check (clipboard to transfer the url to here)

A module system is where you would find a lot of places where the 
internals would be different, due to the compilation thing, but the 
external behavior could appear to be the same. There are a lot of 
nice tricks in R3's module system, and I've gone through a lot of 
trouble to make it possible to have the module system be handled 
by a preprocessor that doesn't have to execute any of the code in 
the modukle bodies to resolve dependencies. It was designed with 
preprocessors like prebol or Ladislav's include in mind. And all 
of that is in the specifications of how modules are declared, not 
in the actual mechanism that implements it, so the concepts would 
be portable to Red.

But thinking about it, those mobile platform policies make it really 
innefficient. I know that most app you download, are just megabytes, 
but still - why not to allow a runtimes to find their shared place 
on the device? Then, all your apps would need just kilobytes of the 
traffic, and mobile operators would be happier. But maybe it is not 
easily technically solvable on such OSes, who knows ....

Well I did find one bug :-)

Kaj, it would be helpful to make it easy for ppl to get. I am an 
average user, and I can't locate the executables:

- esperconsultancy does not provide any link

- red lang does provide link to fossill (which UI I find terrible)

- I go to Files section, examples subdir - no executables there ....

I remember searching for such service that would allow outsourcing 
the donations handling a few months ago, but couldn't find anything. 
That would certainly be a good idea! Also if it could handle the 
money transfer aswell, that could be a good ground for a new startup. 
;-)

I realize I mixed string and c-string, but it was possible to use 
foreach on the string. The problem was to find the find the last 
char.

I find myself less and less interested in REBOL, even open sourced

Jerry: when I find time to write it. :-) Probably when I get back 
to memory manager code to add the few missing parts, like GC and 
allocation of big memory chunks, that should happen in the next weeks.

I agree that we should have only _one_ convention, else it will quickly 
become a nightmare when having to integrate 3rd-party code. We need 
to find some objective reasons for choosing it. 


For Red, I'm inclined to continue on the one-based convention that 
worked pretty well in R2 for many years (at least for me). I'm not 
very fond of the change in R3, introducing 0-based convention implicitly, 
it solves one problem (iterating over 0 index...I don't remember 
ever doing that), but introduces new ones (negative indexes point 
now to an IMHO, counter-intuitive position which will most probably 
lead to programming errors). For now, I prefer to stick to R2 way, 
until  we find a better solution (feel free to propose some on related 
github tickets or here). For example, we could decide to ban indexes 
<= 0 (not my favorite personal option though, but would solve simply 
the problem).


For Red/System, a 0-based convention might make more sense, but it 
would push us into the R3 issue I've mentioned above wrt indexes 
<= 0. Also, as a dialect of Red, it can use whatever convention best 
fits its purpose, but OTOH, having the same convention as Red would 
help. So, I'm really undecided for Red/System.


I think the whole issue boils down to decide about PICK behavior 
with <= 0 indexes, everything else should be able to fit in easily 
once that preliminary question is solved. It would be helpful if 
someone could put up everything related to this topic on a wiki page 
with all arguments sorted (there's a lot of them in R3 group posted 
a few weeks ago).

Being a human myself, I don't find indices-as-ordinals ("one-based") 
particularly human friendly.

Ladislav, I fully agree. I don't think that "0 points backwards" 
is particularly elegant either, but I'm willing to explain it ("0 
points to the element before 1") and find it much better than having 
to explain when and why you have to very careful with computing indices, 
or even debug (R2) code that was written unaware of this fact.

anyhow I always considered negative indices to be a bad idea.  I 
find SKIP and BACK convey much better meaning, because they are inherently 
directional (vectorial) by nature.  


IMHO  negative indices should have been implemented like in python, 
where they count from the tail, rather than "curren" position.   
they are MUCH more useful, they would be used daily by me (and most 
rebolers) in such a case.

aha, still not done, I would need to find a name for the zero-based 
counterpart of POKE...

I don't find it particularly confusing that 0 is the integer before 
1.

I bet most readers here and R3 users will find it confusing. See 
my above `pick at values 2 0` example.

We won't if we stick to only R2/R3 options. Fortunately, there are 
other ones, maybe we'll find more.

It's more of a "which is more useful" versus "which is less confusing 
for newbies". Best to find a balance.

Negative indices being back from the tail of the series: please, 
no, never.

 - yes, this needs some analysis to find out what may be wrong about 
 that idea. The starting point may be that the series tail is "ephemeral" 
 in a sense as I noted, while the head is not ephemeral at all.

One thing I always find interesting about definable range of Pascal, 
is that Wirth later moved on to fixed, 0-based ranges for arrays 
in Oberon.

R3 was optimized AFAIU specifically for this (extremely?) rare use-case 
over the very common cases for what R2 is optimized for (typically 
`series/-1`). So, could we find, at least one! use-case, where you 
need to compute indexes over current position (where R3 convention 
would prove to be better than R2).

The preference then. So, at least 2 people like to use path syntax 
(PowerMezz was written by one guy). It was bound to happen that someone 
wouldn't find that syntax ugly :)

Brian, just for the record, I find your proposal reasonable and pragmatic.


If I'm given PICKZ and POKEZ, I couldn't care less about the poor 
souls suffering from trying to use path syntax with negative indices 
and falling into the 0 hole. Maybe a bit egoistic, but well.

Ladislav, I didn't say triggering an error wasn't stupid, I said 
that it was less stupid because it was louder. R2's current behavior 
is made worse by it happening silently, making it difficult to track 
down where you code went wrong when it called PICK or POKE with 0 
by accident. Triggering an error makes it easier to find these situations. 
It's a way to ameliorate a bad situation.

Everybody should use what he likes too, we should not remember though, 
that it was View itself, which attracted many new users, and historically 
we could find many questions, if Red is going to have engine like 
View is ...

Doc - OK, so that user, who wished all the years RT linked View to 
VLC, could find his remedy via Red, being bridged to VLC via R/S, 
right? :-)

VID-like: definitely. Not only because it is a simple and efficient 
way to build GUI, but also because it nicely shows the power of dialecting, 
applied rightly, so it "validates" the whole concept behind REBOL 
and Red. 

I was planning two approaches:


- prototype a VID dialect for cross-platforma native GUI once we 
have the right interfaces between Red and Red/System. (That part 
will include also mobile platforms, if possible, else, they will 
have rely on a mobile-oriented GUI dialect). I will probably start 
to play with it around Christmas, and try to reach an alpha/beta 
in Q2 2013.


- prototype a VID dialect for HTML frontend, having GUI frameworks 
as backend targets (Sensha, jqueryUI,...). The hard part here is 
abstracting the client-side coding, Topaz would be great for that, 
if Gabriele can find time to continue working on it. Else, I will 
need to work on my own Red to JS compilateur.


It would be also nice to have a wrapper over R3/View or a Red/System 
port of it, but it would need contributors to take it in charge. 
There are also more possible GUI options.

Now after observing development of several GUI systems, there are 
always some particular things I find wrong with them: They were designed 
with small details in mind rather than the big picture. This means 
that when a developer uses a GUI system, he'll find that some things 
are easy, while others are very hard. For example, none of our GUI 
systems are particularly designer friendly, meaning that building 
a skin requires a programmer with artistic skills. There are not 
many of those around and that's a real problem. Saphirion's R3 GUI 
was derived from Carl's work in a way, where several parts were rewritten, 
because they didn't scale enough for real-world GUIs. The rest of 
the work has been about beefing up the R3 GUI to handle what is needed.


Development often seems to go in isolated sections: Building styles, 
building a layout engine, event handling, skin system, animation 
or whatever, without a properly coherent view on the whole thing. 
We talk about how we have a really nice feature, but that feature 
may not mean much, if it's not functioning in a coherent way with 
the rest.


If I were to restart VID Ext Kit as a new GUI system, I would rewrite 
it top down: Start with an application with the simplest, purest 
GUI description and write the GUI system down from there. I would 
recommend that a GUI system for Red needs to be written like that, 
starting as early as possible and let it grow downwards instead of 
upwards with a real application in mind rather than some neat demos.

Great explanations Nenad! My apologies if sometimes I seem to ask 
for the known things.. 


For the documentation we need a Red marker pen and mark the REBOL 
documentation where appropriate for Red.

I took a little time (just 5 minutes LoL) to see if I could find 
a starting point for the documentation extraction script from the 
suggested makedoc2.r script but 'parse is not my best REBOL skill.


Besides graphics and a killer application as Pekr described, having 
CGI support for Red can bring a lot of attention to Red too imho. 
(And this could bring financing Red up too when Red programmers are 
making money making websites using Red.)

In fact, what I think is, that Saphirion was really close to the 
GUI engine, which adressed most of what we wanted to solve by VID2 
to VID3 transition. It was just not polished. And because of that, 
ppl did not find it attractive enough to play with. And that's a 
real pity. Anyone doing native platform GUI will make me to close 
that demo at first sight, easy as that. Doc is in kind of difficult 
situation - as we can see, many former/recent rebollers are still 
interested in View like engine. The same reason why Doc dismissed 
LLVM in Carl's blog post, the same reason many will dismiss attempts 
to link to GTK, Enlightenment, etc - I don't want to use 5+MB crap 
...

Pekr: you don't get the right picture. When I mention "native widgets", 
I am mainly referring to the ones provided by each OS, which is what 
most users expect to find in an app for their OS, and what most developers 
wants, is to provide a consistent experience for users. So, actually, 
such approach will be lighter then /View, because the OS provides 
you with everything you need. In the case of Linux, GTK is the main 
standard and it is built-in many distros, so that is the one we will 
probably use for Linux target and you don't need to provide it with 
your app.

Kaj - I feel free to find some resources for someone to port View 
to Red, playing on your nerves, as it will quickly again becoming 
more popular :-)

As far as the wish for a View/VID native solution goes, I wish that 
as well. Maybe it will be possible when the JIT compiler becomes 
reality to easily adapt Rebol's VID. 

It does not have to be complete like VID, a basic set of widgets 
will get you a long way.  

Other solutions are a really good thing too, but looking at GTK and 
myself I find it hard to find out how to get GTK on my mac. It is 
not a standard dmg file I can download and install and it works. 
Other GUI solutions require integration of their package or having 
the end user of your programs to find out how to get it running on 
their machine. That kind of thing can be a real showstopper to global 
acceptance.


I know Doc is working hard and has already stated he intends to come 
up with a VID like native solution. So we can let him focus and be 
silent ,or we can comment and discuss letting him know we do care.

One example of a reference that I find very useful is the Clojure 
cheat sheet. The one one clojure.org doesn't have tooltips, but some 
do. The nice thing is that all link to the clojuredocs.org site which 
is a great for crowdsourcing usage examples, including notes, caveats. 
For sure Red should have something similar.


http://jafingerhut.github.com/cheatsheet-clj-1.3/cheatsheet-tiptip-cdocs-summary.html

http://clojuredocs.org

Arnold: it's clear that people will have different preferences. I 
find the tooltips handy for when I just want to refresh my memory 
by a quick hover without having to lose the context of the page I'm 
on. If I want more details (which could be copied and pasted), I 
just click through. What's the problem with that? If you don't want 
tooltips, don't keep moving your cursor, or make tooltips optional.

I am a bit short on time for testing on all platforms, did anyone 
find any regression in Red before I release v0.3.1?

youre welcome my friend ;) Did you find time to read my latest reply 
on the mailing list?

Doc, I like the proposition, although I can understand, that some 
ppl might find FFFFFFh cleaner, cause e.g. FF#16 looks a bit heavy 
:-) OTOH - if someone writes just ffffffh, it is really difficult 
to read. So in general, I like your proposition :-)

I like having the numbers in binary! values, but not as much for 
this. My brain says "this is a binary in base 16 notation", but for 
hex or binary literals, I want to think of the words 'hex and 'binary, 
rather than "this is a base-16 number, which means it's in hex format". 
I think I looked for alternate notations a long time ago. Have to 
see if I can find my notes.

Case-sensitivity could trip up a lot of REBOLers. I know this is 
Red/System, but still. You may also find that people treat it as 
a feature and start giving things names that differ only in case, 
as happens in C.

New features added today worth mentioning:


- comparison operators (=, ==, <>, <, <=, >=, >) support extended 
to all datatypes.

- FIND action added (supports block! only for now, /match not implemented, 
/only always on)

FIND on string! implemented (only tested with no refinements).

Doc: "FIX: now FIND/match will return the tail of the match. " - 
aren't /match and /tail two distinctive refinements in REBOL's find? 
Why implicit /tail here?

Red 0.3.1 released: http://www.red-lang.org/2012/12/red-v031-functions-support-added.html

- function support
- path get/set notation support
- refinement support for native functions
- expressions in parentheses compilation

- new datatypes: function!, paren!, path!, lit-path!, get-path!, 
set-path!

- new actions and natives: find, select, copy, reflect, type?, halt,...

- extended mold, form and comparison operators to all new and existing 
datatypes
- many new mezzanines functions

- modulo and remainder operators on floats implemented for ARM backend
- Quick-Test testing framework ported to Red
- a truckload of new unit tests
- many bugfixes
- about 200 new commits to the Github repository
- updated Red/System formal description document

This is a code pattern I use often, but always find it annoying to 
have to add a to-logic call each time in front of refinements.

Also, you won't find the source code of block literals in text format 
if you scan the binary, because they are stored as code and not data. 
That is the only way currently they can be stored in compiled binaries. 
Storing them as text would need a way to load them and then compile 
them at runtime (it will be possible in the future, but not right 
now).


Anyway, the probably best way to store all those series literals 
is to allow the use of a redbin format. We will have that too at 
some point.

New features of the day: 
- SWITCH implemented (/default refinement supported)
- CASE implemented (/all refinement supported)

- FIND and SELECT extended to handle datatype values matching. Example:

    find ["hello" 2 red] integer!
    == [2 red]

Kaj, just a remark about Red and bindings: there is still  an additional 
feature to come that will allow to import both Red/System and external 
libs functions directly in Red in a declarative way. It will use 
almost the same syntax as #import in Red/System but will convert 
the datatypes automatically (in the same way R2 does with routines 
and structs). A struct! datatype would then be added also to Red. 
The routine! datatype primary purpose is provide a way to write ultra-fast 
code and enable system programming, even if it can be also used to 
wrap Red/System bindings. I'm still unsure which approach would work 
the best for building bindings to C libraries. I guess you'll be 
the first to find out. ;-)

Gregg: I have already code for a R2-like console (as shown by Rsharp.exe), 
but anyway, if I can find someone willing to do it and skilled enough, 
I would be glad to delegate that part.

I find graphical representations of data very interesting.  This 
one is one of those!

As preproc directives such as #if should stand out, it will be hard 
to find anything better than #.

Where would I find those?

If we don't find any big drawback, I think I will implement it.

De rien, merci à toi!

I cannot really find a startup guide for Red: so, if no one shouts, 
I'll try to write one, during my long hours of flight next week.

REBOL []

do/args %makedoc2.r 'load-only
doc: scan-doc read file: system/options/script
set [title out] gen-html/options doc [(options)]

file: last split-path file
replace file ".txt" ".html"
file2: copy file
insert find file2 "." "-light"
replace out "$DARK$"  file
replace out "$LIGHT$" file2

write file out
replace out "dark.css" "light.css"
write file2 out

BTW, you can find these documentations already generated online here: 
http://www.red-lang.org/p/documentation.html

I have completed the set of fixes for various path issues for Red. 
They are available from the `fix-issue-277` branch and they should 
cover the following issues:

#251 (Red doesn't find source in working directory)
#252 (#system cannot find #include)

#277 (Include system doesn't handle well files with same name in 
different directories)

#366 (Compilation of code outside of the Red/ path fails under Windows)
#381 (#system-global doesn't detect equal #include paths)


Please let me know if there are remaining path issues to fix before 
merging this branch with master.

Ok, thanks. I unfortunatelly hadn't chance to check Red/System in 
last few months. I'm very glad it can be done, I have to find some 
time for Red/System again.

Yes, it makes it easier and faster to find optional attributes this 
way.

Pekr mentioned on 7-Jun-2012 in this group that an OpenCV binding 
was coming, but I can't find it anywhere.  Does anyone know if it 
exists?

OpenCV binding is done by François Jouen, it's a work in progress. 
There's a Red/System version that you could find from this page (in 
french):


http://www.digicamsoft.com/cgi-bin/rebelBB.cgi?thread=%3C25May2012200150764026200%3E


There's a Red version that François sent me privately a few days 
ago for testing, but I haven't had the time yet to review it.

(Add a 3D API, and maybe Red could find a market in gaming)

There's not so many buttons on Github page ;-) But maybe Doc could 
add above link pointing to latest archive directly to his site, would 
make things for beginners easier. Well, looking at red website I 
now find it also a mistake not having download section ...

needs to be checked out in the subdirectory "common" for other bindings 
to find it. I use a parent directory Red:

Published the new R3D library with guide and demo video: http://rebol2.blogspot.it/2012/10/r3d.html
, you'll find the same guide on www.rebol.org

Rebol [Purpose: {make wikibook entry}
Author: "Max Vessi"
version: 1.0.0
]
my?: func [
    "Prints information about words and values."
    'word [any-type!]

    /local value args item type-name refmode types attrs rtype temp
][       
    temp:  copy ""
    if all [word? :word not value? :word] [word: mold :word]

    if any [string? :word all [word? :word datatype? get :word]] [
        types: dump-obj/match system/words :word
        sort types
        if not empty? types [
            print ["Found these words:" newline types]
            exit
        ]
        print ["No information on" word "(word has no value)"]
        exit
    ]
    type-name: func [value] [
        value: mold type? :value
        clear back tail value
        join either find "aeiou" first value ["an "] ["a "] value
    ]
    if not any [word? :word path? :word] [
        append temp reduce [mold :word "is" type-name :word]
        exit
    ]

    value: either path? :word [first reduce reduce [word]] [get :word]
    if not any-function? :value [

        append temp reduce [uppercase mold word "is" type-name :value "of 
        value: "]

        append temp either object? value [ reduce ["^/" dump-obj value] ] 
        [mold :value]
        exit
    ]
    args: third :value
    append temp  "= USAGE: = ^/ "

    if not op? :value [append temp reduce [ uppercase mold word " "] 
    ]
    while [not tail? args] [
        item: first args
        if :item = /local [break]

        if any [all [any-word? :item not set-word? :item] refinement? :item] 
        [
            append temp reduce [append mold :item " "]

            if op? :value [append temp reduce [append uppercase mold word " "]
	    value: none]
        ]
        args: next args
    ]
    append temp  "^/" 
    args: head args
    value: get word
    append temp "^/= DESCRIPTION: = ^/"
    either string? pick args 1 [
        append temp reduce [first args]
        args: next args
    ] [
        append temp "^/''(undocumented)''^/"
    ]

    append temp reduce [ "^/^/"uppercase mold word " is " type-name :value 
    " value."]
    if block? pick args 1 [
        attrs: first args
        args: next args
    ]
    if tail? args [exit]
    while [not tail? args] [
        item: first args
        args: next args
        if :item = /local [break]
        either not refinement? :item [

            all [set-word? :item :item = to-set-word 'return block? first args 
            rtype: first args]
            if none? refmode [
		append temp "^/= ARGUMENTS: =^/"
                refmode: 'args
            ]
        ] [
            if refmode <> 'refs [
                append temp "^/= REFINEMENTS: =^/"
                refmode: 'refs
            ]
        ]
        either refinement? :item [	   	  
            append temp reduce ["*'''" mold item "'''"]

            if string? pick args 1 [append temp reduce [" -- " first args] 
	    args: next args]
            append temp "^/"
        ] [
            if all [any-word? :item not set-word? :item] [
                if refmode = 'refs [append temp "*"]
                append temp reduce ["*'''" :item "''' -- "]

                types: if block? pick args 1 [args: next args first back args]

                if string? pick args 1 [append temp reduce [first args ""] 
		args: next args]
                if not types [types: 'any]
                append temp rejoin [" (Type: " types ")"]
                append temp "^/"
            ]
        ]
    ]
    if rtype [append temp reduce ["^/RETURNS:^/^-" rtype]]
    if attrs [
        append temp "^/= (SPECIAL ATTRIBUTES) =^/"
        while [not tail? attrs] [
            value: first attrs
            attrs: next attrs
            if any-word? value [
                append temp reduce  ["*'''" value "'''"]
                if string? pick attrs 1 [
                    append temp reduce [" -- " first attrs]
                    attrs: next attrs
                ]
                append temp "^/"
            ]
        ]
    ]
    editor temp
    exit
]

I have put a script similar to the chess script on rebol org. It 
is a script to determine all possible moves in the international 
10x10 checkers game (dammen). It needs some improvement in how to 
represent the moves themselves, but the basics work. I'll post a 
board and simple board evaluating script soon. 
http://www.rebol.org/view-script.r?script=dam1.r

(I need also to find out how exactly to make a package from all needed 
files)

I just finished the full Rebol disctionary on: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/REBOL_Programming/Dictionary
there you can find also the source of the functions. 

It's a public wiki, you can add examples, correct bugs, add topics: 
you are welcome!

Today I have put version 1.0.0 of the 10x10 checkers (damspel) out. 
The script on rebol.org points to the download location on my website 
(because it is a package of scripts more than a single script)
You can find it on http://arnoldvanhofwegen.com/stuff/damgame.zip

Today I updated my Red compiler script on rebol.org. The script now 
can now also compile Red scripts, not just Red/System scripts.

You can find the new script here http://www.rebol.org/view-script.r?script=redcompiler.r

Gregg Irwin has rewritten the redcompiler.r script on rebol.org and 
I now added a help screen, a check for a red.r compilerscript in 
the selected directory, support for Red source only compilation, 
the option --red-only Doc recently added. 

You can still find the new script here http://www.rebol.org/view-script.r?script=redcompiler.r

Made it to restore the web-project for http://development.saphirion.com


That's where we are going to publish our R3 stuff. Still some work 
to do, but you will find our R3 version there, R3-GUI etc.

Have bought a few things on the Apple appstore .. and wonder if Carl 
would find it worthwhile to write articles for sale .. 99c etc ?

I noticed that it wasn't the same color, but guess I took your words 
for it. We'll find out soon enough.

I find it funny that you guys fell for it, it was clearly not Carl's 
style of writing. Besides, he already has his own open source license. 
:) (When I was in Ukiah, we went to lunch with his - at the time 
- lawyer, who created his own license... I can't find it on Wikipedia 
right now, but it used to be there.)

I can't find anything on Github

OK, I will let it to experts. You can find some BrianH comments in 
the prior blog article, where Carl asked for the opinion. Please 
read it as well. But imo really - why to complicate the situation? 
Why not MIT or BSD? Is Carl fearing some big company will behave 
badly, build commercial stuff upon REBOL, and make some money, without 
donating changes back?

Chris, the first article is a little outdated, but it's not far off. 
The articles don't reflect how many of the R3 functions have been 
ported back to R2, such as the reflection functions and some other 
tricks. You might find that some of the changes you would want to 
make to your code to make it R3 compatible are also supported in 
R2.

In most cases, the name of the binding tells you which library you 
need. Then find the official site, the official download for your 
system and see if you need any dependencies

Rebol [Purpose: {make wikibook entry}
Author: "Max Vessi"
version: 2.0.0
]
my?: func [
    "Prints information about words and values."
    'word [any-type!]

    /local value args item type-name refmode types attrs rtype temp
][       
    temp:  copy ""
    if all [word? :word not value? :word] [word: mold :word]

    if any [string? :word all [word? :word datatype? get :word]] [
        types: dump-obj/match system/words :word
        sort types
        if not empty? types [
            print ["Found these words:" newline types]
            exit
        ]
        print ["No information on" word "(word has no value)"]
        exit
    ]
    type-name: func [value] [
        value: mold type? :value
        clear back tail value
        join either find "aeiou" first value ["an "] ["a "] value
    ]
    if not any [word? :word path? :word] [
        append temp reduce [mold :word "is" type-name :word]
        exit
    ]

    value: either path? :word [first reduce reduce [word]] [get :word]
    if not any-function? :value [

        append temp reduce [uppercase mold word "is" type-name :value "of 
        value: "]

        append temp either object? value [ reduce ["^/" dump-obj value] ] 
        [mold :value]
        exit
    ]
    args: third :value
    append temp  "= USAGE: = ^/ "

    if not op? :value [append temp reduce [ uppercase mold word " "] 
    ]
    while [not tail? args] [
        item: first args
        if :item = /local [break]

        if any [all [any-word? :item not set-word? :item] refinement? :item] 
        [
            append temp reduce [append mold :item " "]

            if op? :value [append temp reduce [append uppercase mold word " "]
	    value: none]
        ]
        args: next args
    ]
    append temp  "^/" 
    args: head args
    value: get word
    append temp "^/= DESCRIPTION: = ^/"
    either string? pick args 1 [
        append temp reduce [first args]
        args: next args
    ] [
        append temp "^/''(undocumented)''^/"
    ]

    append temp reduce [ "^/^/"uppercase mold word " is " type-name :value 
    " value."]
    if block? pick args 1 [
        attrs: first args
        args: next args
    ]
    if tail? args [exit]
    while [not tail? args] [
        item: first args
        args: next args
        if :item = /local [break]
        either not refinement? :item [

            all [set-word? :item :item = to-set-word 'return block? first args 
            rtype: first args]
            if none? refmode [
		append temp "^/= ARGUMENTS: =^/"
                refmode: 'args
            ]
        ] [
            if refmode <> 'refs [
                append temp "^/= REFINEMENTS: =^/"
                refmode: 'refs
            ]
        ]
        either refinement? :item [	   	  
            append temp reduce ["*'''" mold item "'''"]

            if string? pick args 1 [append temp reduce [" -- " first args] 
	    args: next args]
            append temp "^/"
        ] [
            if all [any-word? :item not set-word? :item] [
                if refmode = 'refs [append temp "*"]
                append temp reduce ["*'''" :item "''' -- "]

                types: if block? pick args 1 [args: next args first back args]

                if string? pick args 1 [append temp reduce [first args ""] 
		args: next args]
                if not types [types: 'any]
                append temp rejoin [" (Type: " types ")"]
                append temp "^/"
            ]
        ]
    ]
    if rtype [append temp reduce ["^/RETURNS:^/^-" rtype]]
    if attrs [
        append temp "^/= (SPECIAL ATTRIBUTES) =^/"
        while [not tail? attrs] [
            value: first attrs
            attrs: next attrs
            if any-word? value [
                append temp reduce  ["*'''" value "'''"]
                if string? pick attrs 1 [
                    append temp reduce [" -- " first attrs]
                    attrs: next attrs
                ]
                append temp "^/"
            ]
        ]
    ]
    append temp "^/= Source code =^/"
    append temp  reduce ["<pre>" join word ": "]
    if not value? word [print "''undefined''" exit]
    either any [native? get word op? get word action? get word] [
        append temp reduce ["native" mold third get word]
    ] [append temp reduce  [ mold get word "</pre>"] ]
    editor temp
    ;write clipboard://  temp
    exit
]

re Carl's message ... dunno why, but once again I can see an aproach 
of how to steal the thunder from ppl being eventually interested 
in Red, claiming bright future of R3. It feels almost irritating 
to read the message containing claims, that porting of R3 takes 5 
minutes, yet the only port which happened was Amiga, and ARM or other 
platforms never ever happened, from whatever reason. I have to ask 
myself - why Carl did not find 5 minutes to do the port?

porting of R3 takes 5 minutes, yet the only port which happened was 
Amiga, and ARM or other platforms never ever happened [...]. why 
Carl did not find 5 minutes to do the port?


1. An ARM port was done, supposedly. 2. Porting is one thing, supporting 
a port is another.

Ladislav - in 2004, when R# was slowly taking off, Carl published 
a blog article or announcement, describing R2 plugin feature. The 
supposed release was "imminent". Prior to that, Carl even contacted 
Doc to eventually stop working on R#, or so I remember. Of course, 
the announcement was just to distract ppl from alternative, keeping 
them interested in REBOL. 


Later on, I several times rightly identified some blog-post, whose 
purpose was nothing more, than to buy some time for RT, where in 
fact promissed things were not delivered. 


So - of course it is just my speculation, but with the history of 
R3 development I find it really curious to try to hype users to believe, 
that port to ARM could happen in 5 minutes, when RT was not able 
to deliver it is 5-6 years of R3 existence? And if so, it sounds 
a bit unfair to me ...


Simply put - wish Red, R3, World, whatever clone a success. It is 
just that what I would like to see is - a realistic estimates on 
any side ....

Yes, my em6502.r was a test of the speed of rebcode. It was meant 
as a proof-of-concept. I never used it much. It's for the rebcode 
found in REBOL/View 1.3.50, which was the first rebcode version afaik. 
So not compatible with later rebcode.


There also is an assembler: http://www.fys.ku.dk/~niclasen/rebol/language/asm6502.r

and a MOS 6502 workbench: http://www.fys.ku.dk/~niclasen/rebol/language/m6502wb.r

, if anyone can find some use of it.

Thanks. I'm glad you find it useful.

Have to think on that a bit, and find some spare time somewhere. 
:-)

Make it easier to find the Red vs Rebol announcements

Well to me it looks like there is just way too much happening to 
follow it all. Then one github repository for R3 is enough unless 
you really need another one to test and fool around with completely. 
The source being on Github is nice because I now have a copy, but 
it hinders me to contribute because I do not have the time nor the 
will to find out how to contribute changes, and when I tried I found 
it puzzling enough, so I decided it is too much trouble for now and 
to only look at the sources and not to contribute. (This goes for 
the Red github situation as well).

MaxV, I also agree that your involvement has been positive, and I 
always enjoy reading your posts :)  I also agree that it's great 
to offer more open channels of communication, but I think Andreas 
is 100% correct - links are preferrable to copied content.  Setting 
up a portal could certainly be helpful for anyone who prefers using 
that interface, but pointing to original content is critical.  The 
more sites that pop up and point to other important sources, the 
more easily people will be able to find what they need, no matter 
how they find their way into the community.  Helping to organize 
and guide people to the right places is helpful, but copying has 
all the problems Andreas pointed out.

Yes, that will happen soon, Adreas will probably find some time to 
help with that as well.

First step is to find out how big a project it is...

I'd have to give it cookies first to find out for sure. Don't want 
to do that, either

let me see if I can find some place like depositfiles - though the 
free downloads usually involve a countdown timer