AltME groups: search

Who would I talk to about linking rebol.org library to the rebol 
editor that I am creating? I need rebol.org to dump its script that 
are functions.

I remember I did lot of simmilar tricks in the arcadia game engine 
editor http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/arcadia-editor.jpgwhere the graphics 
rendering has been done completely in DRAW(I mena the old DRAW from 
1.2View) - lot of fun :)

nice, now just make some cool vector gfx editor :)

thanks... I can't wait to let you guys play around with all of this. 
 I am thinking of implementing magnets and physics within the editor.

what I think many developers would be willing to pay for is - real 
screen editor :-)

strangely I have found out that when using row/column engines like 
glayout (and others) I get 10 times quicker results than using any 
mouse driven, static page editor.

I'm building it using REBOL (writing code in old but still my favourite 
Crimson editor). Which means I'm producing AS2 bytecode and also 
modify (resize, join...) various swf files with graphic ( on bit-level 
:) I'm using various caching so for example don't have to republish 
the graphic all the time when I just need to change simple logic 
in my code.

Robert, are you using an IDE for working with D or just an editor? 
I've taken a look at D-IDE and it sort of works, but seems kind of 
flaky. Going to check out the VisualD add-on for Visual Studio next. 
Also tried Sublime Text - it's a pretty nice text editor with Python 
scripting and it has partial TM bundle support (snippets, language 
defs for syntax coloring, themes).

Just an editor and the CLI.

When I want to send a longish post, I write it with my preferred 
editor and then I just copy it to here.)

amacleod, I think you saved the file after loading it with a webbrowser 
or something.
Do this instead:

 load-thru/update url: http://membres.multimania.fr/didec/rebol/altme-chat-reader.r
	path-thru url
and open that file in your editor.

Henrik, no, I'll clean it up first. I just thought you might have 
needed it for something. It's in my editor so I ought not to forget 
about it. :)

btw, ive seen u invited to the french translation task. im heavily 
trying to learn rebgui, so u as well can use a nice editor for the 
qtask lang file ;)

Does any one have a tool for examining large objects?   I'm trying 
to find where things are defined in beer, and using an editor to 
browse the port object is not fun.  A sort of anamonitor for objects?

I was going to ask what is a good hex editor to download into ubunto...but 
then I figured out I should just use a REBOL hex editor...if I need 
to to change I can just change it myself.

would be a good extension of a hex-editor...to just load a memory 
address and peek around and look at things...have REBOL inspect itself.

volker, a specific location in the binary taken from a hex editor

hex-editor or ascii or decoding this unix-rights-numbers or such.

Clipboard on linux :   ctrl-v  in altme and middle mouse button in 
a text editor, it works for me

Will, I just use a text editor and flick between files using Ctrl-Tab, 
scrolling down using Page-down when I don't see anything different. 
Raw, and it works pretty well, but it's probably worthwhile looking 
for a comparison tool out there.

I've been looking at %view-edit.r recently (and Romano's excellent 
http://www.rebol.it/~romano/edit-text-undo.txt), and have the following 
three code change suggestions:


1) Allow Shift-Tab to cycle back through the first / last pane objects 
(as Tab does):

	back-field: func [face /local item][
		all	[
			item: find face/parent-face/pane face

   any [if head? item [item: tail item] true] ; new line added here
			while [face <> first item: back item][
			...

2) Implement a new function to hilight the current word.

	current-word: function [str] [s ns] [
		set [s] word-limits
		s: any [all [s: find/reverse str s next s] head str]
		set [ns] word-limits
		ns: any [find str ns tail str]
		;	hilight word
		hilight-text s ns
		show view*/focal-face
	]


3) Refactor the engage / down action to allow double-click selection 
of a word (something I use all the time in almost every editor I 
use).

Current code:

	down [
		either not-equal? face view*/focal-face [
			focus face
			view*/caret: offset-to-caret face event/offset
		][
			view*/highlight-start:
			view*/highlight-end: none
			view*/caret: offset-to-caret face event/offset
		]
		show face
	]

Proposed change:

	down [
		either event/double-click [
			current-word view*/caret
		][
			either face <> view*/focal-face [focus face] [unlight-text]
			view*/caret: offset-to-caret face event/offset
			show face
		]
	]

Comments?

It's not a final version, but is completely usable. What is not finish 
is the editor for the rules.

So, this rules are stored in the rules.txt file (this file appear 
after your run it one time) and should be edit manually.

Is the source for the Rebol text editor available anywhere?

I have been playing with Cal Dixon's REM editor and Core as a means 
of learning code and trying to identify differences between the 2.5 
Core he wrote it for and the current version. Everything seems to 
work fine except SEARCH, which produces the following error...

Perspectives of a newbie! By Steve Thornton (SteveT)


Hi! everyone, as someone brand new to REBOL I've been asked to log 
a journal
describing my experiences using REBOL. 


I think the first thing to get out of the way is to tell you where 
I'm coming

to REBOL from. I've programmed on and off for over twenty years starting 
with

Clipper 5 (dBaseII), Visual Basic (Access), C# (SQL Server), Java(NetBeans 
+

JavaDB). I've worked in a variety contract/freelance work. I earn 
approx half 

my income form 'Thornton Software' and I work for Iris Software Group 
- 

as a training consultant (training accountants :-\ someone has to 
do it!)


I can hear some of you saying 'Ahh! he's an IDE wimp - real men/women 
code

from scratch'. It was strange - every language I've used had an IDE 
and I

was a bit put off having to go find myself an editor. Until something 
better

find's me I'm using the freebie 'CREdit' as recommended by Sunanda. 


The easiest way to edit/test the scripts is to open an explorer window 
at

the side of the CREdit window showing my scripts folder. I can then 
drag a .r 

file onto the CEdit screen and it opens it. To run the script I double-click
it in the explorer window.


The help and documentation available is better than I have previously

experienced. Some of the components I've been wow'ed by so far is 
Henriks

List-View and RebDb from Dobeash. I've looked at RebGUI and for the 
time being 

I would prefer not to use anything on top of VID, I need to learn 
pure VID before
using anything else.


REBOL Cookbook of examples is a useful place to start. Some more 
form oriented 

examples would be cool. Example 014 - 'Open two windows'  and Example 
10 - 'Simple text
form window' are both useful


The Event Handling guide is a good resource for programmers moving 
from Visual
Studio etc..


That's more than enough to be going on with, next time I'll cover 
my experiences 
with VID, FACES and handling Events.

Bye for now.
Steve Thornton

ODE
so I though mebbe
;{
 which would only end at a
;}
as }; will not do ...
To take a page from Snobol

  both would have to be unindented, i.e., occupy first and second char 
  of the line

I live in curly-brace land in CURL and a missing brace becomes a 
headache even in a editor with a scroll-u-there brace-matcher

Another approach I have been thinking about but will need to be a 
future project when I get some mileage under my belt so to speak 
is to use rebol/view in a similair manner to Limnor (Limnor is basically 
codeless programming) I know was my mouth out with soap & water However 
for newbie's/Lamers like myself if a gui was presented that had most 
of the functionality of rebol/view like field boxes buttons to create 
standard buttons & other routines etc. on the right of the screen 
would be a editor that as the selections was made would build the 
code automatically thus giving the user an illustration as the code 
progressed. in the bottom below the editor could be a help menu that 
would instruct the user as the code was systematically built. something 
like if the mouse cursor hovered over a gui item it would flag up 
instruct info, a help as you go if you like. The program could be 
nearly full gui leaving the task bar available to the user to continue 
having access to windows items. The 1st item could be a field that 
the user inputted a title then work through the items to build a 
gui interface. It would be no good for the experienced rebol user 
 who needs full control of the coding but would give new users a 
kick start to build confidence. You could call it RoboRebol LOL! 
I'm getting ahead of myself but is a concept idea that I think may 
have merit. You guys would have to advise on the practicalities of 
such a venture. Use Rebol/View gui to semi auto write rebol programming

EasyVID and EasyDraw are examples of "active documents" that show 
the kind of thing that can be done with REBOL very easily. The Word 
Browser is another. In addition to ROAM, Ammon Johnson and I did 
a prototype system browser based on the way Smalltalk does it. Experiments 
have also been done with popup syntax help and something like Intellisense. 


One of the basic problems is that we don't have a good way to build 
an editor that does syntax highlighting and such. James Marsden(?) 
got the farthest on that I think. Still, we should be able to build 
a really great tool if we feel the need. It seems the need has just 
never been strong enough.

Carl even did a layout editor...must be somewhere.

Did some one found a way to have a FAST Rebol editor.  I did remarked 
that the cursor is slowing to a crall on big texts in MDP-Gui.  It 
is also quite slow with VT-editor or ion-pe, or even with this very 
small editor in alt-me, the one with which I write now.  Tcl, for 
example, does have two tk texts widgets (text and C-text) to properly 
handle text.  Could there be a way to have a fast editor in Rebol, 
something that could handle a text of 100-200 pages in a manner that 
is as fluid as something like notepad.  I am a newbee and find MDP-Gui 
to be a nice course on how to play with text rendering.  Although 
I would rather have only one window, and alternate from the editing 
window to its rendered view.  Full window is nicer to write text. 
 Side by side is nicer to compare marked-up text to its rendering, 
but after a while, we know the rendering and simply want the fuss 
a a nicely rendered text.  I am fidling with this idea, but do stumble 
on the editor part.  I dont even know who is the culprit, area or 
the ctx-edit.  If someone has a simple solution to this, he should 
post it.

will be to settle it by inverting the problem : edit text in a console 
or an editor, and have the console or editor to parse the text and 
transform it according to the commands it find in it.  I did search 
for that.  The closest library to such goal I found is either scintilla 
for an editor or tkcon, the adaptable tcl console.  But all this 
suppose that we dispose of Rebol source code to put the language 
parser in it, right (like ion.pe)?  So we would have to rely on R# 
(open source) instead of Rebol?  Either way, it does seem that handling 
the problem well is pushing us out of Rebol; not a charming proposition. 
 I am just expressing my frustration of not being able to solve a 
problem that is not existing in other languages.  As a priority, 
I do think that the repositioning of the caret is the show stopper. 
   I could live with NOT rendering in the SAME window as the editing 
window; I consider it a form of cosmetics.  But I can hardly ask 
people to start edit documents in a lame editor that takes seconds 
to go from page 120 to 130.   It would be nice if RT could find a 
solution to that, as it would ease the way to specialised IDE's, 
Ide for Rebol and the many specialised dialects.  By the way, did 
Ammon Johnson finished to wrote his REBOL-based IDE, called RIDE?

based on iframe + java technology you have the ritch text editor 
projects is what I want to be able to do with VID. But I have no 
concrete idea on the method to apply to get it

I would like to create an IOS Wiki application based on MDP syntax. 
So it should be a Wiki I can use as IOS user and browse / edit with 
some kind of editor. Here are some thoughts (unstructured). I'm looking 
forward for you comments.

1.) How to handle CamelCase links and content?
	- One approach is to create a TXT file for each CamelCase word.
	- Than new files need to be autoadded to the fileset or

 - The editor recognizes CamelCase words and creates new files, this 
 implies the the internal
	  editor is used.


2) MDP needs to be extended to translate CamelCase words into links 
that MDViewer can handle


3) Filesync clashing needs to be integrated into IOS with DIFF/MERGE 
option based on the synced TXT files

Perhaps a syntax highlighter for kate or other folding editor would 
help?  Not that I know

anything about syntax files for editors...I haven't run PC edits 
in a long while, but most
editors now support code folding.  At least in Linux land.

text editor

Depends on the PDF editor and how it was saved.
Yes, it can be compressed.  Yes, it can be protected (encrypted).
It can also be just PostScript at its core.

Looking at the files in a text editor I believe I can see were image 
data but where it exactly starts and ends I'm not sure. I tried to 
cut and past the data for a small image but I could not load it in 
rebol...just took a shot to  see if it were in some staight forward 
binary format.

shebang: Luckly my Windows editor can handle files with mixed returns. 
So the first line is now unix style while all others are windows 
style.

the vulnerability has been identified.  There is a vulnerability 
in the rich text editor which allow a user to upload a php file as 
an image type and then browse to it executing it.  http://xinha.webfactional.com/ticket/1363
 So, not really a php exploit ...

has anyone written syntax hilighter for Gedit? (Default Gnome Editor)? 
I don't need it, but my friend who starts using REBOL asked, and 
I am not following this topic properly. So - in case you know someone 
who has it, please suggest :-)

Or rather making associated desktop files. It turns out that the 
menu editor included is for the GNOME menu, not the Unity menu. There 
is no editor for the Unity menu. I'm going to try to figure out what 
needs to be done.

Haha correct! But more than that. You have to select text at AltME, 
you have to right-click the selection at AltME, and then use the 
middle-click at the target text editor at OS (where your text is 
safe to be copied using usual means). As a text editor, gedit can 
be used.

REBOL Folks. How to fix a font in REBOL editor---it's unreadable!!! 
http://s017.radikal.ru/i401/1202/f0/b05d8abc5412.png

It's completely impossible to work with such a renderer of an editor.

I recommend using an external editor. R2's internal editor is not 
very good.

R3 does not have an internal editor.

I'd be happy to attach an external editor to [Edit] Button in R2 
or R3.

I usually do it the other way around. Find a favorite editor and 
attach R2 or R3 to it.

in all cases SVG in rEBOL/View is only a common base to allow lot 
of reuse of this format you have 20  draw/AGG guru around the world 
and 200 .000 SVG drawers that use WebBRowser Plugins and SVG EDITOR 
like photoshop, the gimp or InkScape ...

but i'm agree betwin SVG and AGG I would prefer an AGG draw maker 
tool ... And the good thing would be that this king of editor outputs 
SVG, DRAW/AGG and bitmap format as well with out any change or loos

what is more easier and productiv (sorry but if you spent 3 weeks 
to draw the logo of your website in DrawAGG commands you will be 
fired and that's all) Making a description of your image in pure 
draw dialect ? Making it in SVG using a SVG Drawer editor then integer 
it to a VID renderer to have the snapshot ?  And then if your boss 
or client found that the produced graphic doesn't complity to his 
thought how difficult would it be to modify it in AGG code (pure 
texte no graphical editor) in SVG (there you have an editor and you 
can retake the file and then modify it very easyly ) or in bitmap 
once produced it's very hard to modify (a part if you save it into 
an intermediate format ? )

if you say guys you hav a powerfull Sclar and Vectorial dialect in 
rebol but you have to take you text editor to compose you graphics 
those guys will trash out out the window ... You can expect a guy 
the use all along the day photoshop illustratior, Wave etc to open 
a text editor there is no way !!! Like to expect that a 3D modeler 
will let apart his grpahical environement and use a taxte editor 
to make his 3D scene and animation usin yafray or povRAY... Script 
3D renderer are far away from in realtime 3D workbench (with graphical 
UI) but what want a 3D worker ??? Take 3 weeks to write a scene then 
wait three weeks to have the rendering then make the constatation 
that the result is not exactly what he wants and restart for 2 weeks 
of work and 3 weeks of generation ? Or edit his scene into a graphical 
UI that allow him to moselise and renderise his work in a bench of 
seconds ?

Pekr imagine you compose you graphics with inkscape (SVG editor very 
complete and free) then you set your animation process with AGG and 
then you put it online in your site. People come along in you web 
site make the click on the link to you new file then rebol/view plugin 
launch and run you SVG graphics with you AGG animation. In front 
of that you have flash sure but flash is made by a specialised in 
the grpahic industry company and not by a generic company ;)

means high better editor too?

Yes - probably IDE starts with better editor.

Although, with the bug fixes in View, I use that editor a lot more 
than I used too. :)

CArl franckly I use all the day long Crimson Editor and it's suffisant 
... but sure an IDE that allow people to manage code / AGG graphics 
animation (a little bit like flash studio ) would be top ...

I use CE as well, but often switch to use View editor to edit ftp 
files

What I like about view editor is:  editor system/options, editor 
http://www.rebol.net, etc. ;)

I think the internal editor has some potential: Multiple docs for 
example could that be easily implemented?

It would be good to experiment around with editor and see if it can 
deal with scripts as collections of functions, objects, data blocks, 
etc.

If you used Smalltalk editor, you know a bit more about what I mean.

Actually, I've given up on using just one editor.

If an editor lags all the time, just by typing simple code, it almost 
makes me knock the monitor off the table

Volker, in Smalltalk, I liked in part the fact that the editor "browser" 
kept things better organized.

I like the editor the way it is now. I don't think anything should 
be put in it that would slow it down other than proper indenting.

For testing code snippets that are a little too big for the console, 
it's brilliant.


Alternatively, provide a bigger version of the editor through the 
desktop?

i like that editor too. but when we want ide too, the gui-ide has 
to deal somehow with the text in the editor. and currently focus 
gets lost and selection and such.

Henrik: yes, Viewtop editor is fine for that. Small and simple. Perhaps 
a few more features, but not a lot.

1) code text editor with the usual features (like list of modules 
to click on)

2) trace/step thru code and see it in editor (important to non-REBOLers 
who are considering REBOL)

the IDE will interger a AGG draw editor lol ;)

we don't have an IDE or View Editor group...

I was thinking about making simple vector editor, but it's not possible 
without this feature. In Flash you can detect feels over shapes, 
in Rebol we are limited to faces:(

REBOL [
 Author: "Shadwolf"
 Starting_Date: 21-05-2005
 Purpose: {Research work on rebol draw capability to be 
 used to write a Ritch text editor} 
]

i'm talking about that because i currently try to do a draw editor 
with R3 (like my old easy-drawer).

on text without the size of each character you can't simulated a 
realistic text motionning. This works greatly with fixed font but 
fixed fonts are not supported on all OSes and they are pretty borring.... 

fixed font system forbid de coders to propose a font selector to 
their users in their programs one of  the feature all the common 
text editor have.

USe writely as rebol-editor. somewhat clumsy, but works :) http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dg424hdn_4hdnh7z

Nice treepad editor announced on mailing list

Crud, brief synopsis:

	write s3://<bucket>/my-file.txt "My File"

 write/custom/binary s3://<bucket>/my-png.png read/binary %my-png.png 
 [read]
	editor s3://<bucket>/my-file.txt
	layout [image load s3://<bucket>/my-png.png]

Requires AWS key and secret.

if you have full control on the app sources... using a resource editor 
(on windows), you could probably edit the rebol version data included 
in the binary metadata and then there are probably os calls to get 
that natively.

I think that I've had this issue even in xp when I was starting the 
application using "capture output" of my text editor or something 
like that. 

so that the window app hangs while its trying to connect to the console 
ports.


IIRC you can setup a CALL command in REBOL which ends up doing the 
same thing though I don't remember how.

i made some test to build an RTE editor using gobs, but as i said 
the current alpha is bugous

What editor do you use on Windows ?

i don't like colorization of code, so that a simple text editor with 
macros (to launch rebol) is enough

It could be a good base for a remote Wiki editor. Just add an HTML 
generator to convert to static pages tree.

But thanks, "halt" solved my problems as I can now launch my script 
from my editor and watch the Rebol's console output.

Marketing Ideas to lawyers
AN ARTICLE FROM SUNDAY'S NEW YORK TIMES WE SHOULD READ CAREFULLY.


Awaiting the Day When Everyone Writes Software

By JASON PONTIN
Published: January 28, 2007

BJARNE STROUSTRUP, the designer of C++, the most influential programming 
language of the last 25 years, has said that “our technological civilization 
depends on software.” True, but most software isn’t much good. Too 
many programs are ugly: inelegant, unreliable and not very useful. 
Software that satisfies and delights is as rare as a phoenix.

Skip to next paragraph

Sergei Remezov/Reuters

Charles Simonyi, chief executive of Intentional Software, in training 
for his trip to the International Space Station, scheduled for April.

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Podcast: Weekend Business

Reporters and editors from The Times's Sunday Business section offer 
perspective on the week in business and beyond.

How to Subscribe

All this does more than frustrate computer users. Bad software is 
terrible for business and the economy. Software failures cost $59.5 
billion a year, the National Institute of Standards and Technology 
concluded in a 2002 study, and fully 25 percent of commercial software 
projects are abandoned before completion. Of projects that are finished, 
75 percent ship late or over budget.


The reasons aren’t hard to divine. Programmers don’t know what a 
computer user wants because they spend their days interacting with 
machines. They hunch over keyboards, pecking out individual lines 
of code in esoteric programming languages, like medieval monks laboring 
over illustrated manuscripts.


Worse, programs today contain millions of lines of code, and programmers 
are fallible like all other humans: there are, on average, 100 to 
150 bugs per 1,000 lines of code, according to a 1994 study by the 
Software Engineering Institute at Carnegie Mellon University. No 
wonder so much software is so bad: programmers are drowning in ignorance, 
complexity and error.


Charles Simonyi, the chief executive of Intentional Software, a start-up 
in Bellevue, Wash., believes that there is another way. He wants 
to overthrow conventional coding for something he calls “intentional 
programming,” in which programmers would talk to machines as little 
as possible. Instead, they would concentrate on capturing the intentions 
of computer users.


Mr. Simonyi, the former chief architect of Microsoft, is arguably 
the most successful pure programmer in the world, with a personal 
fortune that Forbes magazine estimates at $1 billion. There may be 
richer programmer-billionaires — Bill Gates of Microsoft and Larry 
Page of Google come to mind — but they became rich by founding and 
managing technology ventures; Mr. Simonyi rose mainly by writing 
code.


He designed Microsoft’s most successful applications, Word and Excel, 
and he devised the programming method that the company’s software 
developers have used for the last quarter-century. Mr. Simonyi, 58, 
was important before he joined Microsoft in 1981, too. He belongs 
to the fabled generation of supergeeks who invented personal computing 
at Xerox PARC in the 1970s: there, he wrote the first modern application, 
a word processor called Bravo that displayed text on a computer screen 
as it would appear when printed on page.


Even at leisure, Mr. Simonyi, who was born in Hungary and taught 
himself programming by punching machine code on Russian mainframes, 
is a restless, expansive personality. In April, he will become the 
fifth space tourist, paying $20 million to board a Russian Soyuz 
rocket and visit the International Space Station.


Mr. Simonyi says he is not disgusted with big, bloated, buggy programs 
like Word and Excel. But he acknowledges that he is disappointed 
that we have been unable to use “our incredible computational ability” 
to address efficiently “our practical computational problems.”


“Software is truly the bottleneck in the high-tech horn of plenty,” 
he said.


Mr. Simonyi began thinking about a new method for creating software 
in the mid-1990s, while he was still at Microsoft. But his ideas 
were so at odds with .Net, the software environment that Microsoft 
was building then, that he left the company in 2002 to found Intentional 
Software.


“It was impractical, when Microsoft was making tremendous strides 
with .Net, to send somebody out from the same organization who says, 
‘What if you did things in this other, more disruptive way?’ ” he 
said in the January issue of Technology Review.


For once, that overfavored word — “disruptive” — is apt; intentional 
programming is disruptive. It would automate much of software development.


The method begins with the intentions of the people inside an organization 
who know what a program should do. Mr. Simonyi calls these people 
“domain experts,” and he expects them to work with programmers to 
list all the concepts the software must possess.


The concepts are then translated into a higher-level representation 
of the software’s functions called the domain code, using a tool 
called the domain workbench.


At two conferences last fall, Intentional Software amazed software 
developers by demonstrating how the workbench could project the intentions 
of domain experts into a wonderful variety of forms. Using the workbench, 
domain experts and programmers can imagine the program however they 
want: as something akin to a PowerPoint presentation, as a flow chart, 
as a sketch of what they want the actual user screen to look like, 
or in the formal logic that computer scientists love.


Thus, programmers and domain experts can fiddle with whatever projections 
they prefer, editing and re-editing until both parties are happy. 
Only then is the resulting domain code fed to another program called 
a generator that manufactures the actual target code that a computer 
can compile and run. If the software still doesn’t do what its users 
want, the programmers can blithely discard the target code and resume 
working on the domain workbench with the domain experts.


As an idea, intentional programming is similar to the word processor 
that Mr. Simonyi developed at PARC. In the jargon of programming, 
Bravo was Wysiwyg — an acronym, pronounced WIZ-e-wig, for “what you 
see is what you get.” Intentional programming also allows computer 
users to see and change what they are getting.


“Programming is very complicated,” Mr. Simonyi said. “Computer languages 
are really computer-oriented. But we can make it possible for domain 
experts to provide domain information in their own terms which then 
directly contributes to the production of the software.”


Intentional programming has three great advantages: The people who 
design a program are the ones who understand the task that needs 
to be automated; that design can be manipulated simply and directly, 
rather than by rewriting arcane computer code; and human programmers 
do not generate the final software code, thus reducing bugs and other 
errors.


NOT everyone believes in the promise of intentional programming. 
There are three common objections.


The first is theoretical: it is based on the belief that human intention 
cannot, in principle, be captured (or, less metaphysically, that 
computer users don’t know what people want).


The second is practical: to programmers, the intentional method constitutes 
an “abstraction” of the underlying target code. But most programmers 
believe that abstractions “leak” — that is, they fail to perfectly 
represent the thing they are meant to be abstracting, which means 
software developers must sink their hands into the code anyway.


The final objection is cynical: Mr. Simonyi has been working on intentional 
programming for many years; only two companies, bound to silence 
by nondisclosure agreements, acknowledge experimenting with the domain 
workbench and generator. Thus, no one knows if intentional programming 
works.


Sheltered by Mr. Simonyi’s wealth, Intentional Software seems in 
no hurry to release an imperfect product. But it is addressing real 
and pressing problems, and Mr. Simonyi’s approach is thrillingly 
innovative.


If intentional programming does what its inventor says, we may have 
something we have seldom enjoyed as computer users: software that 
makes us glad.


Jason Pontin is the editor in chief and publisher of Technology Review, 
a magazine and Web site owned by M.I.T. E-mail: [pontin-:-nytimes-:-com].

Gregg;  I've been keen to get the REBOL console into an immersive 
mode, like I was

used to in polyFORTH.  The line editor vocabulary means parsing random 
string input.

p [


would place an open square etc...  String parsing seems so, umm, 
not the way.  A CLI

dialect is tricky if everything has to be loadable.  p "[" is not 
immersive, it becomes

a little disruptive to the "stay in the context mode".  Anyway...not 
on the table today.
Just unparked   peoplecards.ca  :)

well, I hope the new guides system will allow creating an interactive 
editor in a few kbs. I haven't seen anything other than the specs 
yet, though.

To do this probably requires some extra style modes. Given the design 
of the R3 GUI, you can add special abilities globally to styles, 
such as the current debug red rectangle. You can probably add some 
actors to alter the behavior of styles to be suitable for a GUI editor.

Just wondering if it would be possible for richtext command sequences 
to also fit into a word!, so symbols can have their own colour and 
font when molded into a richtext field. eg:
	word: to-word "/bPhrase"
Now when I mold word I see it rendered with bold text.

My concern is just to make sure that all the command sequences (like 
/b in the example) are allowed in a word!, and possibly also still 
allow  loading as a word! directly. eg:
	type? load "&bPhrase" ;== word!
(assuming the richtext escape character is & )

This could mean an editor could render symbols with their formatting, 
for instance. (I'm also thinking of implementing an interpreter within 
rebol).

just dunno what they do, if the want some kind of comuted values? 
Maybe they import just what is defined, you change layout, and after 
the widget is drawn, they can adjust, dunno .... just an idea, we 
imo need visual screen editor in future ...

Which brings me to another topic: dash.


This can be a little painful in text editors, because a dash usually 
always has arithmetic meaning, no matter where you write it in other 
languages. But in REBOL, dashes not prefixed and postfixed with a 
space, have the same meaning as underscore or other word separation 
character. This means that in text editors, I can't double click 
to select a word and probably more importantly for some code editors, 
I can't autocomplete the word. Of course I could stop using dash 
myself, but there are a lot of system words with dashes in them, 
such as 'sendmail-pref-file or 'dsa-verify-signature.


So I sit in the code editor and type. But was it 'verify-dsa-signature 
or 'dsa-verify-signature? Darn it, have to look it up, because the 
text editor can't complete the word!

I look at this problem from two views.  wanting a forth style block 
editor and wanting to let a construction boss sit at home and edit 
his own data blocks.  The forth style CLI just needs strings...any 
string including something like  p [   putting an open bracket on 
a line by itself.  This can be done with string parsing and a dialect 
pass, but hey.  The other issue is a lot deeper.  I want the boss 
to type in $1,000,000 and not have to call me when load kakks and 
(when I'm not careful enough) breaking a script.

I'll get to know it more when we get to build a real rich text editor

pekr:  yes using liquid interactively is one of its mandates.  the 
liquid editor, will be used in this way, changes will be viewable 
in real-time, so the first set of nodes that are going to be integreated 
are globs, which allows a graphic package to be built within a day.

Worked out the other issue.. Flash requires crossdomain.xml file 
to be delivered up by Cheyenne when running Flash that uses xml.Socket 
(like RASH).
Butt it's working well now.. and very cool. 

Works like this.. I run my local copy of Framewerks with embedded 
Cheyenne server, and park the GUI on any server (always accessible, 
single point of bug fixing etc.) for all to use.. currently it's 
here  http://kommonwealth.com/exper/gui.html


Now, it wont work for you 'cuz you're not running framewerks.. but 
if you were..  you could type into the box "codes" and it would open 
the RASH code file, on your desktop, using your favorite text editor. 
  

But wait.. there's more... 

In my local code.txt file i have the following line

PnG "testing" ][bout: {<pre>ok this works</pre>} makeXML ['DISPLAY 
'MSG "testing works here"]]


So when I open another browser, and point it to http://localhost/
testing  that line is fired (more on all this later).. 

Which does two things.. it outputs "ok this woks" to this second 
localhost page .. BUT (and this is the cool part)

it sends the "testing works here" into the panel on the first kommonwealth 
page. 

In other words, Im able to PUSH data to the remote page at ANY TIME.. 
  this will make for the ultimate in portal pages. 

And.. if that's not enough, Im able to pass messages to the DOM via 
javascript to the kommonwealth page as well. 

Allowing things like sliding in panels.. fading div elements moving 
images.. whatever.


So.. remote page can manipulate my computer.. run apps, do any Rebol, 
reboot .. whatever.. and the local desktop can manipulate a remote 
web page.

Finally.

I had to use a hex editor to debug this

Don't need it, if I press ENTER in an editor on Linux I get just 
a linefeed :-)

<html>
<title>
Editor
</title>
<body>

<%

filename: to-file request/content/filename
if (suffix? filename) <> %.rsp [ quit ]
; if filename = %edit.rsp [ quit ]
either source: select request/content 'source [
	; a http post, so save it
	write filename dehex source
][
	source: read filename
]


val-tag: rejoin [ {<input type="hidden" value="} form filename {" 
name="filename">} ]
replace/all source "<" "&lt;"
replace/all source ">" "&gt;"

print rejoin [
<form method="POST" action="/hylafax/edit.rsp">
<input type="submit" value="Save">
<hr>
<textarea rows="40" cols="140" name="source" > source
</textarea>
val-tag
<p/>
<input type="submit" value="Save">
]
include-file %footer.inc
%>