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Geomol, I think the problem is because the dragger is only correctly 
positioned in feel/redraw. See the feel:
	layout [slider with [?? feel]]

This means that the dragger is only set in the correct position when 
there is a redraw event, and the face must be viewed in order to 
receive events. The initial position ( layout [slider with [?? init]] 
) does not take into account that DATA may be non-zero.

Ok, I've tried... I have a list of toggles with a scroller attached. 
For the life of me I can't get the "dragger" to size properly. The 
slider button is not proportional to the what is being shown in the 
list. In my case, I'm seeing about 20 of the 24 rows so the dragger 
should be about 80% the size of the panel, no? Thanks in advance 
to anyone who knows.

I'm trying to use Cypher's drop-down style but it seems to conflict 
with list-view widget. I keep getting: "dragger does not exist"

Anyone know a quick fix to drop-down so that it does not conflict?

skin-slider.r used by drop-down seems to redefine "dragger". I tried 
to rename all references but that did not work.

sorry the actual error is:

** Script Error: dragger has no value
** Where: init-code
** Near: make dragger [
    edge: make edge []
    feel: make svvf/drag bind [
        engage: func [face action event] [
      ...

Hi, I have read the recomended http://www.rebol.com/docs/view-guide.html
 so I have an idea of some of the stuff to expect from VID, but as 
soon as I try to do anything not explicity shown in that document 
I find my understanding is really very thin & flimsy. This is an 
example of me failing to get the results I expected. Perhaps there 
is just one basic step I have omitted that is messing everything 
else up?  Any tips would be welcome & appreciated, but dont miss 
a Sunday snooze on my account please :-)
mmm: layout [

 space 0x0         ;; thought this would make items touch each other. 
 dosnt work?
	my-sldr1: slider 300x10 [print "1 clicked"]  ; ok
	my-sldr2: slider 300x10 [print "2 clicked"]  ; ok

 space 1x1         ;; thought this would make items 1 pixel further 
 apart. dosnt work
	my-sldr3: slider 300x10 [print "3 clicked"]  ; ok
	name1: text "Inital text" 100x30             ; ok

 button "Change text" [name1/text: "Text now changed"  show name1] 
  ; ok

 button "Cente" [my-sldr2/size: 100x40 show mmm]  ;; this breaks, 
 but does make a change

 my-sldr1/step: 25             ;; imagined this did soemthing, but 
 cant see or guess what, seems to break the lat button

    my-sldr3/edge/color: blue     ;; this works but also applies its 
    self to the last button
	my-sldr3/dragger/color: red   ;; doesnt seem to work 
]

view mmm   ;; ok

? mmm      ;; shows components of object, reference for what they 
all mean is not available
? my-sldr1 ;; again guessing what they do is frustrating 

probe my-sldr1 ;; I know what the parts are but cant guess which 
ones work or what they do.

it seems that you just saying they work, causes them to work... well 
the space is applied to the following item with reference to the 
one after that, not the space between the items where the word "space" 
is put....  After moving the position of the space this also cause 
the dragger to turn red too.    The probe mmm, are the 14,000 lines 
all of VID?

ok, i moved the changes to outside the layout block, but this dosnt 
work
	my-sldr3/dragger/color: red 

and this button dosnt redisplay the layout, it just overwrites the 
existing stuff.

 button "Cente" [my-sldr2/size: 100x40 show mmm]  ;; this breaks, 
 but does make a change

I am guessing that the display is not dynamic in the way I am expecting?

ASHLEY  LOOK TO PRIVATE FOR A  SCROLLER WITH NONE  JITTERRING DRAGGER 
IMPLEMENTATION.

Alpha2 build available at: http://www.dobeash.com/files/RebGUI-020.zip

Highlights include:


 - New, unit based sizing model (see http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/display.html)

 - Improved language localization (see http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/locale.html)

 - New arrow, chevron, check-group, led-group, scroller, spinner and 
 drop-list widgets
	- Lots of minor fixes
	- show redefine removed
	- Use of -1 instead of 9999 to denote auto-size
	- Aesthetic improvements (use of gradients)
	- %tour.r substantially rewritten

Known issues

	- spinner and drop-list widgets need more work
	- scroller needs more work (resizeable dragger)

In progress

	- Improved tab-panel (shadwolf)
	- Menu (cyphre / shadwolf)
	- tabbing
	- field input validation (field input masks, etc)

That leaves less than half a dozen widgets to go!

	list		single column
	listview	multi-column
	treeview
	popup-menu	context menu
	status		status bar with one or more “segments”

Latest build available at: http://www.dobeash.com/files/RebGUI-022.zip

Highlights include:

	- Added drop-list, edit-list and auto-fill widgets
	- New splash function added (run %tour.r to see it in action)

 - Window management logic improved (disallows duplicate windows and 
 "sticks" child windows to first)
	- Couple of minor fixes and cosmetic improvements
	- %tour.r has an additional "List" tab

 - Prototype table widget added (run %table-002.r to see it in action)

Known issues

	- spinner and auto-fill widgets need more work
	- edit-feel needs to handle highlight, cut & paste
	- scroller needs more work (resizeable dragger)
	- table needs row selection logic added
	- edit-list needs auto-fill logic added

In progress

	- Improved tab-panel
	- Menu
	- tabbing
	- field input validation (field input masks, etc)
	- list-view (shadwolf)


With regards to "lists", I envision 5 types we need. They are (in 
ascending order of complexity):


 drop-list	- non-editable, single sorted column with single value 
 selection [optimized for < 100 values]

 edit-list	- derived from drop-list but editable with an auto-fill 
 field

 table		- multi-column representation of a DB table; used to create 
 something like a GUI SQL client with single-row selection [< 100,000 
 rows]

 list-view	- multi-column multi-media content (supports images, URL's, 
 etc); used to create something like a file explorer with single perhaps 
 multi-row selection [<10,000 rows]

 grid		- cell-level addressing and editing supporting simple spreadsheet 
 formulas and formatting [< 1,000 rows]

Some time ago I did precise scroller calculation. You have to include 
size of dragger into it etc.

And personally, I find the visuals of the sliders and draggering 
irritating, too.


The gradient in the sliders container IMHO doesn't integrate in the 
overall RebGUI appearence - since it's (button left aside) nearly 
the only pseudo-3d effect - and the visual contrast between dragger 
an container IMHO isn't very strong. I usually find me clicking in 
the container when I expected to grab the dragger.


The gradient in itself is somewhat unsual, too, since it makes the 
container appear standing out of screen, if one assumes that light 
falls from upper left corner (which is how most pseudo-3d screen 
elements are designed).

I second Christian's thoughts on the dragger and gradient.  I also 
found myself reaching for the gradient section thinking it was the 
dragger.  Because it has more graphic detail, it attracts the eye 
first... that should be left for the dragger/button itself in my 
opinion.  The background of the slider area should be flat.

I have a working SLIDER with proportional dragger and page clicking.

It has a small visual bug, which does not affect the functionality; 
the end of the dragger sometimes is drawn a pixel too far. I think 
it is a floating-point error somewhere, the trapping of which I don't 
have much experience in...

Latest build available at: http://www.dobeash.com/files/RebGUI-031.zip


*** Unzip this file into your existing RebGUI 0.3.0 distribution. 
Requires View 1.3. ***

Highlights include:


 - Replaced scroller & slider widgets with Anton's new combined slider
	- Updated widgets to use same and set dragger size
	- Tab-panel now accepts actions (to enable dynamic tab displays)
	- Improved text-list selection logic
	- Prototype request-dir function added (needs a lot more work)
	- Large number of bug fixes
	- http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/display.htmlupdated

Known issues:

	Unchanged.

On the drawing board

	Unchanged.

ashley, can you add in slider style a function wich changes the size 
of the dragger ?

Luc: dragger size is controlled by ratio, so just do a "sld/ratio: 
a / b show sld" or similar in your code.

Latest build available at: http://www.dobeash.com/files/RebGUI-034.zip


*** Unzip this file into your existing RebGUI 0.3.0 distribution. 
Requires View 1.3.1 ***

Highlights include:

	- request-dir requestor updated
	- alert and question requestors added

 - Tab focus expanded to include edit-list handling (see %focus-demo.r 
 for details)
	- Button image now resizes correctly

 - text-list widget totally rewritten to use [newly documented] View 
 1.3.1 iterated faces
	- text-list now supports Ctrl+click, Shift+click, Ctrl+A

 - text-list scrollbar now reacts to current display state (eg. disappears 
 if not required, alters dragger ratio as rows are added, etc) 
	- check and radio widget aesthetics improved

 - added options support to layout function and text-list and check 
 widgets

 - changed base-size from 4x5pixels to 5x4 pixels (better granularity)
	- reworked all widget sizes to account for above
	- fixed scaling problems with many widgets
	- updated focus-demo.r

 - greatly enhanced and expanded %tour.r to demonstrate more variations 
 and usage cases
	- added "live" unit-size and font-size drop-lists to %tour.r
	- numerous other minor bug fixes and coding improvements

In the works


 - table widget being rewritten along the same lines as the new improved 
 text-list widget
	- aiming for a 0.4.0 beta release prior to DevCon2005

Yep, chalk that up as another thing fixed in 0.3.5. ;) The wafer 
thin dragger is still a problem though.

I used it, to set boxy design instead of rounded, and also to change 
some colors. I for one like scroller/dragger look, but don't like 
gradiented buttons/tabs ... they look like W9x, which is imo a bit 
of UI regression. I thought Ashley wanted to go more web way, not 
desktop app way (from the design pov)  ...

Why horizontal scroller shows different dragger symbol than vertical 
one?

LED design is absolutly terrible
 ... please provide a link/image of a better design

Why horizontal scroller shows different dragger symbol than vertical 
one?

 ... vertical uses "=", horizontal wasa "||" but those characters 
 don't center to well

what is the active part of the scroller, and what is the background
 ... you mean the dragger is hard to distinguish from the gutter?
Other than that (and pop-up bugs)
 ... table, text-list and tree still need a lot of work
zero-divide error with  tour.r
 ... thanks, added to the list of bugs to fix

yes, dragger is hard to distinguish from the "gutter", whatever gutter 
means :-)

dragger symbol .... maybe I preferred not so well centered "||" instead 
of "+", but I don't mind plus sign - it is just that I think that 
it might cause some questions from users ....

There are some things I can't understand in the demo : when you click 
on source, you don't get the full source but just a part of it.

Also, I've tried launching this script (from Dragger demo) :

REBOL [ ]

load-gui

view [

doc {
^-^-^-===Drag the boxes

^-^-^-Blue boxes are unbounded.

^-^-^-Red boxes are parent panel bounded.
^-^-}
d1: free-drag
d4: lock-drag red
panel 0 80.200.80.80 [
    d2: free-drag
    d3: lock-drag red
]
]

...and got a parse error : why ?

re 'area style - trying auto-scrolling or scrolling in general:


1) still the same bad aproach as with R2 area - I don't care that 
it does not hilite right now, that can be added, but when dragging 
the mouse outside of the area, it stops scrolling, and that is wrong 
- it should scroll even if I move mouse out of the window, wherever 
around my 2 monitors ....


2) when I start dragging, the proportional size of scroller is lost, 
and it gets reset to its full-size dragger ....