AltME groups: search

Robert, I don't understand exactly what feature(s) you are looking 
for.  If you can explain to me, I can tell you if I can do it.

Rebol will always be weak on smooth scrolling thing. It uses double 
buffering and it still can't compare even at 10% to what Scala is 
able to do fast and smooth ...

I remember talking to Dave Haynie. He told me, that working at Scala, 
they wrote small OS upon Windows, to get proper timers and to achieve 
smoothness ... if Rebol will be limited to Win32, I am not sure we 
can do better than today no matter how we try. I would go for DirectX 
dependant rebol. Show me one machine, where DirectX is not present 
...

Petr, that is immaterial.  If you want to do an ad front-end with 
Rebol, it can be done.

Why does that matter?  Why do ads have to be smooth?

but why not be kings, if we could be kings ... how would you do image 
transitions, if we will not have fast means of pixel changes? Pokeing 
at image is not the way to go ... hopefully Cyphre has something 
in mind and will influence Carl a bit as he did with AGG ....

Pekr, you are correctly pointing out that things like IOS have NO 
limitations...Freedom to do it as you want to.

but just don't forget how open REBOL already is...you might confuse 
others to think what they want to do is impossible.  It IS possible 
right now to make the killer authoring tool of your dreams.

but I do wish on better multimedia engine, and we know View can be 
optimised .... I already asked Carl to blog more on opening rebol, 
he agreed, but he told me first things first, so I expect him to 
do so once rebservices etc. are out ...

Most of us just need to do it the other way around -- and that's 
automatic:
>> to-url "carl S"
== carl S

that's not a very friendly thing to do.

What I generaly do to get rid of viruses when AV fails is open Task 
Manager and just start googling for the process names.  If you can't 
find any information on the process then it is most likely something 
you don't want.  Dropping any Windows process into google will pull 
up a number of result pages that identify it as a windows process.

Once you have located the suspicious processes then you remove them 
from the startup sequence.  You can do this via the msconfig utility 
if it is installed or via regedit.  In regedit go to HKLM/software/microsoft/windows/currentversion/run 
and remove anything that you don't want running.  You may see a number 
of utilities there such as AV software...

how do to remove all variables ?

How many people do we think still using the ML as opposed to here?

As it is, Win7 (and to a lesser extent Vista) do exactly that kind 
of workaround for bad programs under Program Files, redirecting their 
data files to another ProgramFiles directory under local settings. 
It's tricky, but not as tricky as trying to make the programs secure 
otherwise. However, if you put your program directory somewhere where 
it can't figure out that aliasing, the system has to assume that 
you know what you are doing and you have to act accordingly and fix 
the permissions on the directory to match what you want to do.

The real problem is that no program in some directory under the Program 
Files directory should be putting its data files (or allowing writing) 
to the same directory as the program files.


I don't agree with this.  In fact, I vote that we have sandboxes 
(that are also folders), and a company can do what ever they want 
in their own sandbox.

to me the problem is that MS should have created a real application 
framework... actually, only Apple with OSX seems to be really close 
to this.


there should be THREE root directories and only three dirs for each 
application.  windows has dozens, which is crazy.
1. Application SOURCE data (.exe, libs, datafile, etc)
2. Application STORAGE data (game saves, defaults
3. Application Temporary data, flushed on program quit by the OS.


within Storage, you'd have application and user-based storage and 
that's it.


The os refuses to execute any file not within application source 
dir, so you have already clamped down on a lot of security issues. 
 a list of approved .exe is stored whenever you launch an application 
for the first time.


for a bit more flexibility, several application dirs could exist, 
so that you can do stuff like compile items and run them locally 
within your dev environment, but these dirs would be explicitely 
registered within the os.


on install the Application should be required to ask permission (like 
flash) in how much space will be stored within STORAGE if it exceeds 
a max default, independently of SOURCE.


The implementation of MyXxxx folders is completely horrendous, and 
should be a simple and ubiquitous form that has one entry for each 
media type, and a browser where you want to put your stuff (which 
might not be user-specific).


IIRC this was addressed in Vista, but then they went and added aliases 
to everything, which raises errors in the explorer, cause you can't 
use them.  They alias core windows directories in other languages, 
the result being that explorer and actual disk info are different! 
 this completely fucks up many applications (like rebol).


windows has a hard time "fixing" things... they always just patch 
it... its worse since they have a hard time starting with any good 
implementation of anything to begin with.

A hidden legacy filesystem hierarchy with a user-friendly one overlaid 
on top. And the sensible one to use depends on what you want to do, 
but command line tools (like REBOL) can quite easily access both, 
if you know what you're doing.

Well.. Since Reb2 don't have Unicode it would be really hard to do 
Unicode support into AltME .. After version 3, who knows.. Though 
I have to say that I have no idea of the AltME status. Earlier I 
though it belongs to some 3rd party company that just Used Rebol 
as a devtool.

well, you might be lucky, because most of networks don't block outgoing 
connections ... but those who do, will not be able to get to the 
network.

Would be cool if this message window also had a console like feature 
where I could use it to do some functions like a calculator or other 
limited functionality.

Terry: can you explain 
duplicated itself"? Do you mean it was sent twice?"


I posted a message to a group, and it just stayed grey (yet posted)

I then moved to another group, and it posted it there too, and turned 
white.

Two things:

1. The REBOL3 AltME world seems to be horribly slow at the moment. 
Is that only me, or do others observe that as well? From pressing 
send the message area is regularly grayed for several seconds.

2. I find this graying out of the message area to be highly annoying. 
Being able to type the next message while the last one is sent is 
very valuable to me.

Still more to do on it... the original plan from long ago was to 
put it in the list immediately, like other IMs... but indicate that 
it is pending (in date field.)

Nope, I get "Sorry, not allowed... You do not have permission to 
create or change groups. Contact the WorldMaster if necessary."

There is a point with any data set where you have to decide "how" 
to present the data fast.

Usually levels of caches, and prediction can make this seem real 
time, andonly when you go to edit something do things slow down in 
the background.

Almost every system out there that is fast in fact shows some subset 
(like 100 lines) at a time. the pulls in the next.
AltME was an all or nothing thing.

I thought that TCP isn't allowed to drop packets, but it sure seems 
to do so. Perhaps REBOL simply is not detecting that error condition.

Is there a way to automate notifications for private groups?  I will 
not be visiting as much but want to get updates to certain groups 
and thought about making some form of tool to do this.  Was curious 
if someone has already created one.

Actually this looks pretty simple to do but may require an instance 
of altme running all the time

I don't know of an existing tool, but it shouldn't be hard to do.

Do I have to go to each individual world of interest?

Glad it's close enough for your current purpose.

If you need better searches for a specific research project, consider 
writing a few lines of REBOL and scanning your own local copy of 
/altme/worlds/rebol3/

The users.set file is simply a text file from which you can map group 
numbers and poster-ids/poster names
/chat/*.set is a series of text files, one per chat group.
It is pretty easy to do.

Or take a look at modifying this:
   http://www.rebol.org/view-script.r?script=skimp-my-altme.r

I created "~Privacy & Security" The "~" means it is not specifically 
REBOL.


To answer your question, YES, your PMs are private from me.  I do 
not posses in any form direct access to the servers.  I would have 
to ask Carl.

Same is true on Qtask, I would have to ask our DB lead.  We log all 
requests.  However ,if you use the Lock in Qtask, then no one, even 
the NSA can get in (based on the evidence).

I don't know how much we woudl gain Paul, and I do consider when 
and what to clean up from time to time. Your point is noted.

A signal to leave AltME alone for now, and do something more productive 
:)

(I don't use Vista or Sys7, and plan never to do so.)

We normally test with regular user (Cindy's task.)

%appdata% works on XP.  Perhaps added to an SP?


This release should do the right thing. Even if you installed earlier 
in PF, it will try to move it, unless you opt not to.

www.altme.com/download/altme26e.exe

I looked up an old post (2007) talking about how to start Altme Worlds 
on windows start-up. Brock had the answer but I could never get it 
to work. Three years later, I decided to try again. Here are some 
lessons I learned along the way:

Precautions:

You may want to back up the altme folder just in case something goes 
awry. You will also need to know where the files are located.

You may also want to create another temporary worldmaster user and 
note the password. If you're like me, it has been a long time since 
I had to type in the user password.


1. Before you turn off your worlds, go to http://www.altme.com/check.html
and check your world(s). Note the port number and write it down.

2. Create a shortcut icon on your desktop to altme if you don't already 
have one. Do this by right clicking on altme and select "Send to/Desktop."

2. Right mouse click your "Start" menu (I only did this in XP so 
adjust for any changes you might have in your OS) and choose "Explore." 
An "explorer" window will open.

3. Go to the "Start Menu" folder in the the explorer folder tree 
in the left column. In the right column open up "programs" then open 
up "Startup."

4. Drag the altme shortcut icon from the desktop to the startup folder.

5. If you have more than one world, right-click on the just added 
altme shortcut icon and rename it to something like altme-worldname.

6. Show the properties of the just added altme icon by right-clicking 
and choosing properties.

7. There, in the "Target" field, you will add on to what should already 
be there. It should have something like: "C:\Program Files\altme\altme.exe", 
telling the OS where to find altme and the name of the actual program. 
As you may know, the quotes are there because the "Program Files" 
folder has a space in it. Leave it as is and add:

-s "yourworldname" - p the-port-number. E.g., "C:\Program Files\altme\altme.exe" 
-s "myworld" -p 5402. Do not close the properties window but continue 
to the next step.

8. Below the "Target" field you will see the "Start in" field. There, 
enter where altme and its server files exist. The top level folder 
is enough. E.g., "C:\Program Files\altme\" 

9. Apply the changes to the properties and try it out by making sure 
the world is not running and then clicking on the altme icon in the 
Startup folder. This saves you from having to reboot if a mistake 
was made. You should see the familiar altme server window pop up.

10. You need to also check by logging into the world through the 
client. If you can and the data is all there. Great. The only thing 
left is to reboot and make sure it loads by itself.

11. Repeat for all the worlds you have. You'll end up with n altme 
icons each with a different name. 

Things that went wrong:
Before the server could be launched properly via the icon

1. Getting the wrong syntax in the properties/Target. - I thought 
everything had to be enclosed in a single quote string but it doesn't.
After the server was launched

1. Couldn't connect to the altme world - Seem to be related to the 
port #'s I was using. I went back and launched the worlds the manual 
way and checked the ports on the altme website.

2. Could connect but no users. - This had to do with "Start in" info 
or lack thereof. Altme was looking for the data in the Startup folder 
as opposed to my regular altme folder. Your actual data should be 
fine and of course you made a backup, right?

3. Some data (posts) got mixed up - Who knows on that one. I made 
so many attempts, I may have confused something.

4. My user profile was gone or had a different name. - Again, my 
guess is that this was due to the "Start in" info. Worst case, try 
the default "Master" "pass" user. I ended up using another known 
user (hence, my advice to create a temp worldmaster user), then I 
renamed the user I knew was me to me. Weird but it happened in a 
couple of my worlds but only to my profile.

5. I made a copy of the actual altme.exe and named it altme2.exe 
thinking that perhaps this was the problem. The target was then changed 
to reflect it. Don't do this, it  is not necessary and may freak 
you out.


Now I have 4 worlds up and automatically running when I need to reboot 
the server. Yea.

Is this a bug or by design?


A faces pane, if of type block!, may contain not only face objects, 
but allows for words too (and maybe other types, but I didn't check 
this). At least it works and View doesn't complain.  

I sometimes use this for easy access of faces in crowdy pane; e.g. 
for faces A, B, C and F I can set do F/PANE: REDUCE ['a A 'b B 'c 
C].


But now I noticed in some popup-faces' code that SYSTEM/VIEW/WAKE-EVENT 
fails in such cases because of the line IF GET IN ITEM 'ACTION [BREAK/RETURN 
FALSE], which I had to patch to IF ALL [OBJECT? ITEM IN ITEM 'ACTION] 
[BREAK/RETURN FALSE] to make it work through such panes.


Well, I'm really uncertain whether it is a good idea to build panes 
that way and if I have to think of WAKE-EVENT as being buggy, or 
if by design pane blocks really should consist of nothing but faces 
and the bug is me ignoring that.

So, what do you think?

I should have mentioned that I do that to - in the above example 
- refer to the face B by F/PANE/B without having to extend F with 
an explicit 

'reference' to B as in F: MAKE FACE COMPOSE [A: (A) B: (B) C: (C) 
PANE: (REDUCE [A B C])].

Christian, I don't think there are any official docs on the contents 
of pane, but I would avoid this approach. Most code would be expecting 
only faces, eg. code that shuffles faces in order to do depth arrangement 
is probably not expecting words in there too (and, if it did expect 
them, should it assume the words are associated with the faces ?)

sortuj: [  items:  sort/compare  items func [a b ][(pick a n) < pick 
b n]
            save %data.txt items          
            show lay              ]


dodaj: [a: to-url tx/text 

        items: append array/initial 1 reduce [ a  [] [] [] ] items 
        show lay  ]


p:  [    field 200  field 100  field  100  field 100  field 100 return]


add: func [ /local coll] [ coll: get in  layout/offset/origin p  
0x0 1x1 'pane
                           insert tail sub-panel/pane coll  ]

sub-panel: layout [space 2x2
        across 
        origin 1x1
        ; style label text bold right 60
        backcolor blue

       field 200  field 100  field  100  field 100  field 100 return

       field 200  field 100  field  100  field 100  field 100 return 


          ]


lay: layout [

    origin 5x5
    space 1x0
              
 across

   txt 20 "url"    tx: field  270 txt 30 "add" [do dodaj] txt 100 center 
   "sprawdz" [] 
 return
        
 across
h3 200 center red "www" [n: 1  do sortuj   ] 
h3 100 center red "ip"[n: 2 do sortuj ] 
h3 100 center red "nazwa" [n: 3  do sortuj ]
h3 100 center red "kraj" [n: 4 do sortuj]
h3 100 center red "agent" [n: 5  do sortuj ]
 return
        space 0
        panel: box  610x400 blue
        s1: scroller 16x400 [scroll-panel-vert panel s1]
        return
        s2: scroller 300x16 [scroll-panel-horz panel s2]
        return
        button "halt" [halt]
    ]

    panel/pane: sub-panel

    scroll-panel-vert: func [pnl bar][

        pnl/pane/offset/y: negate bar/data * (max 0 pnl/pane/size/y - pnl/size/y)
        show pnl
    ]

    scroll-panel-horz: func [pnl bar][

        pnl/pane/offset/x: negate bar/data * (max 0 pnl/pane/size/x - pnl/size/x)
        show pnl
    ]

    update-panel: func [pnl vbar hbar] [
        pnl/pane/offset: 0x0
        s1/data: s2/data: 0
        hbar/redrag pnl/size/x / pnl/pane/size/x
        vbar/redrag pnl/size/y / pnl/pane/size/y
        
        show [pnl vbar hbar]
    ]

    update-panel panel s1 s2
    view/new lay

do-events

As I said, I'm still new to styles - hopefully someone with more 
experience will come along and do something better...

Well, maybe rebol just needs to do a recycle at the end of its startup.

instead of having frames not related to a rebol word and  still allocated 
in memory until the GC decides to do he's job ;)

what do to make  in order to  only  active column was red ?

about SVG: i don't think that will be supported natively. it's not 
that hard to do that in rebol, a cyphre has something working already.

thanks ammon, I was try to do it via face/texts block

Cyphre, since you are definitly the right one to ask on graphics 
related issues: I've already spent *ages* trying to understand how 
text high-lighting works in View. Do you happen to know if it is 
possible to make the background color of highlighted text different 
to the color of the text in lowlighted state? In a field with text 
black, I'd like to have the selection highlightened in e.g. silver, 
whilst the text itself should remain written in black. But I never 
managed to do so.

Yes, but if it were about changing the font, that probably may be 
possible by changing the fields font dynamically at the right time, 
may be by modifing CTX-TEXT.

What I meant is the way highlighting is "drawn". It looks much like 
if the text is rendered inverse with some sort of keying. You'll 
see what I'm trying to express by looking at


view layout [field "MMM" 210x100 effect [gradient 1x0 blue red] bold 
font-size 78]


and selecting the text. Obviously something like FONT [COLORS: REDUCE 
[WHITE BLACK]] here doesn't work, because FIELD/FEEL (i.e. SWIPE) 
doesn't make use of FONT/COLORS.

But more so, it seems like it's currently technially impossible to 
do so. In the end, the answer really seems to be No! for now.

Maybe I'll find "a little spare time" to do a field which draws it's 
text in the effect block and rewrite the stilll somewhat buggy text 
editing functions ;-)

(Not a serious comment though, because that's definitly not the league 
I'm playing in.)

Do you mean just getting to com12? Look at system/ports/serial. By 
default I think it's just [com1 com2].

I guess it might be worthwhile waiting for LNS to do a library interface.

A and B share the same, so what you need to do is

Ah, should have mentioned that it's not necessary to do that *everytime* 
you change the fontsize. It's necessary only for the first time you 
alter it.

When I was working on MDP-GUI some month ago basing me on the very 
first intent of ashley we were using a layout compositor (and a layout 
call) to renderize the docuement view than Ashley comes with a design 
based on pre contructed minimal enherited face system and using only 
show the gain inthe do view area rendendering process was about 300 
%:)

using premade face you avoid the compositing of the VID layer you 
fill the pane field and realize it on scree with show ( so you have 
2 loops intead of having 3 loops using the layout methode an once 
again layout is good for tiny composed interface but for complicated 
interface that's a too long way to do  ;)) )

you can do a: box ... than a/pane: display [subwidget organisation 
] there is no need to do that

I was wondering about that color palette in the right lower corner. 
That would be pretty easy to do in Rebol now instead of this primitive 
RGB slider thing, wouldn't it?

Another easy question, I have a login screen that starts off with

view center-face loginscreen


How do I make it so that the userid field has focus?  At present 
I have to use the mouse to activate the userid field before I can 
type.

when I want my window to react upon ESC, do I still need to use insert-event-func?

Buttons can't be focused. You would have to stylize your own button 
to do this. I think it was Frank Sievertsen who long ago showed how 
to make CHECKs focusable and respond to keys: tab, space enter etc.

We had such discussion before, do you remember? Many ppl arguing 
with Terry, that basically rebol draw is capable to compete with 
Flash and nowadays we are all applauding AGG inclusion :-) I just 
try to point out to things I don't like and I try to believe that 
my pressure may lead to think out some things more deeply for 1.4 
release ...

Graham - and besides that - we don't know the plan, do we? It is 
difficult to work/cooperate, as RT choosed the way when design is 
done by few ppl. It is good on one hand, as work is being finally 
done and we have got 1.3 out fast enough, but no docs follow, no 
plans follow. I e.g. asked someone from RT's extended team describe 
proper behavior of Installer, to actually test what is desired and 
what is not. But I can imagine docs are always lower priority, it 
is simply natural. But - I would really like to know, what goes for 
VID 1.4 or 1.3.x, whatever - only styles additions? What will happen 
to focus system, how will accessors be utilised, the same for doc 
subobject, what happens to VID in general?  - btn uses bitmap, but 
we've got powerfull AGG inside. Also - how will effects be merged 
with draw? We want to keep compatibility on one hand, but surely 
we don't want to have powerfull gradients withing draw, and old-ones 
within effect block ... So - don't ask me - I would expect some developers 
oriented document, short description of what and how is gonna be 
solved. Don't forget that it seems text mark-up is gonna be introduced 
- so - many changes, in hundreds of possible ways - so I will not 
propose conrete solution, if I know nothing about more general plan 
...

It has always been possible to do it either, using the Face and writing 
from scratch, or else use style extension method in VID. Lack of 
docs probably meant few knew how.

Pekr: about dirty-flag: thats a cool trick for quick formulars. you 
put things in a layout with 
   field my-string [ my-string: face/text ]

and now you never have to worry aout saving face-content: when user 
changes field and leaves it (clicks outside), the action is called 
and 'my-string updated (or the database or whatever you do in the 
action). 

That storing happens only if /dirty? is set, else there is no change, 
so no store.

The problem with your code is, usually both happens, first field 
is stored, then the button. So field should be stored, then your 
quit-button called. You managed to write code which somehow forgets 
to call the quit-button. Somehow you confuse rebol by changing layout 
in field-action and focusing. That it gets confused is the problem/bug 
IMHO.

about list, thats a complicated issue IMHO, because list is heavily 
optimized to show very big lists with good performance and low memory 
use. Thats done by a trick (iterated faces). And that trick is hard 
to wrap in a generic way. 

The other option is to do it trickless, means put all in a big layout, 
one face for each row. thats like conference/messenger/altme do it. 
not that performant (all this programs restrict the number of messages, 
only the last n). but to do it, you only have to append vid-code 
like
 text (name) 100 text  (msg) 300 text (date) 100

for each line and layout that. most flexible way, you can even edit 
each field. but don't come back and tell me its hungry/slow! then 
you have to use that index count list - stuff, maybe somewhat better 
wrapped.

Few additional notes, to not understand me wrong. I always try to 
see the bigger picture of things, not just from the pov of current 
View user. IMO VID should develop towards general "solution containers" 
= highering common ground for further developments. So - the solution 
is not to introduce one quick hack for particular style, but generalising 
things and letting ppl to develop their own solution, but using that 
common denominator. Good example is Rebol, its network protocol, 
and Uniserve - Uniserve is good example of taking things further, 
so each user does not need to start from scratch. In VID it is e.g. 
introduction of accessor functions. I suggest to try to find other 
"solution containers" :-)


The other thing ppl should think openly about, is to sacrifice backwards 
compatibility! I do remember ppl here screaming even about single 
change, which would eventually broke their code. Man, it sound like 
some of us woul never been with bigger projects? Our SAP workflow 
engine is some 50K lines, and when I asked my co-worker to add another 
functionality, he said - I will hack-it in, but I will REWRITE whole 
engine to be more flexible. So - that's me and ppl I work with - 
let's be sane - as I stated on ML - View starts from 1.3 ;-) But 
even further - let's not be selfish to the thousands of ppl, which 
may come to Rebol in future. I don't want to explain to anyone, that 
thing x or y is there because there was some compatibility issue 
with Rebol 0000.1 alpha and som eppl got tens of scripts already 
- that is imo selfishness in bigger picture, sorry to say that. Use 
old kernels for old apps. Our code will break anyway here or there. 
I prefer PURITY of solution instead of compromisses. So that is my 
message to future developments :-)

Volker: using different methods to set style values is basically 
a wrong aproach imo, e.g. methods for automatic iteration and data 
collection are more difficult to do, as you have to inspect what 
style are you investigating, and what is the method to get the data.

it's not that VID is not good, it's that its purpose was not to be 
the ultimate gui framework, but more of an example of what you can 
do; indeed, now we have RebGUI too. but, the problem with that way 
of thinking, is that in practice developers need a solid base to 
start. so it's much better for everyone to provide it.

Volker: re practical usage of dirty flag - you said, that when dirty 
flag is used, field value is always saved? I tried following example, 
and it is saved too. What am I doing wrong? Following code, even 
if dirty is set to 'no, still saves the value, even if I click outside 
the field ...


name: "petr" view layout [f: field name [name: f/text] field "test" 
do [f/dirty?: no]]

saving later - yes, the face keeps its value. you can as well get 
the value out of the face. only the action may be called sometimes 
in between and suddenly do something. in my example its just a store 
and each action overwrites the old value. if you change layout there 
or such it may led to surprises.

I noticed a change in image! type offsets in view 1.3 compared to 
e.g. the rwdraw57e.exe version. In rwdraw57e offset 1x0 was in the 
corner, now it's offset 0x0. Example:

>> bitmap: make image! 100x100
>> change/dup at bitmap 1x0 red 8x8
>> view layout [image bitmap]


That piece of code would put a red square in the corner of the bitmap 
in the rwdraw57e version of View. In View 1.3, the second line should 
be:

>> change/dup at bitmap 0x0 red 8x8


and I think, it's a good change. You could argue, that the offset 
should be 1x1 in the corner, like series are indexed from 1, and 
not zero. What do you think?

we need Unicode. It is already one year ago or more, when Carl told 
me, that RT received more requests for Unicode support and that it 
is relatively high on their to-do list. But who knows what does "high" 
mean here :-)

I just do not know how to to it. would you mind to explain to me 
how-to?

I'm too tired right now to do a more full analysis unfortunately.. 
but I'll submit at least.

So to use effect with arrow, you have to do something like this:

view layout [arrow effect [fit arrow black 0.7 rotate 90]]
same as:
view layout [arrow right]

I am not sure it should work by dragging the mouse up and down ... 
you should be able to hold the knob and do circular movement imo 
...

Is it really close to what you need ? If you can show me a picture 
of how the widget should look, I can see if rotate-knob can do it.

Yep, but :
- Not easy to set value by mouse (as said before).

- Effect (fill-pen) is not "mathematicaly" link to stick angle (don't 
find a formula), so hard to do for any value.

You can also do face/action when face/data changes. However, I found 
that it is *not* a good place to use TO-IMAGE (which might be in 
the face/action), because the latest image of the face has not been 
rendered yet.  Redraw's 'draw action occurs just *before* the face 
is rendered. So to get a chance to make a snapshot of the face using 
TO-IMAGE, I propose a  new redraw action, 'view, be sent after the 
face has fully rendered, allowing TO-IMAGE to be used at the right 
time.

It's good (took me hours to arrive at this simple solution :)  Now 
the action block can do whatever it likes, including showing the 
face, and redraw can handle it.

Is it possible to make View evaluate an expression and send the output 
to STDOUT under Windows? I'm not having any luck with my attempts:

	C:\Program Files\rebol\view\rebol.exe --do "print probe system"


This just opens the View Desktop, and doesn't seem to eval the statement.

hmm ... that doesn't do it either. I decided to get Core and use 
that for my purposes.

Ok, another view question WRT panes. Here is my snippet:

	ad: box blue 280x36 with [pane: []]

	do [
		tmp: none

  start-date: to-date reduce [1 current-months/1 current-months/2]
		loop 31 [
			tmp: reduce ['txt 9x30 to-string start-date/day]
			if start-date/weekday >= 6 [append tmp [red]]

?? tmp
			append ad/pane layout tmp
			start-date: start-date + 1
		]

		show ad
	]

What I want to do is to add to AD for each day of a month (31) single 
panes, that have the number of the day as text and mark weekends 
in red. The numbers should appear top-down for numbers > 10. so like 
this:
1
0

view layout [
	ad: box blue 280x36 with [pane: []]

	do [
		tmp: copy [origin 0 space 0 across]

  start-date: to-date reduce [1 current-months/1 current-months/2]
		loop 31 [
			append tmp reduce ['txt 9x30 to-string start-date/day 25]
			if start-date/weekday >= 6 [append tmp [red]]
			start-date: start-date + 1
		]
		append ad/pane layout/offset tmp 0x0
	]
]

Yes, that is something I definitely wanted to be able to do too. 
So I've been stuffing around on that bit. I have updated the script 
(still not perfect, but could help you on your way.) See above link.

and to emulate events better, you can also do this:
 reduce [e/1 e/2 e/3 e/4 e/5 e/6 e/7 e/8   offset e/offset ..]
then poth event/1 and event/offset work

... and I tend to agree with someone (do not remember now) who submitted 
RAMBO bug re strange behavior of 'over function. It is imo useless 
(try to prove me being wrong), if 'engage has to be used instead 
for "over" detection, when e.g. mouse button is pressed ... because, 
imo, it still belongs to 'over, although it is a bit "engaged" :-)

Thanks Izkata,

seems today is the day of "learn to do it yourself" ... ;-)
Interesting how much you can find, if you remember how to do it.

so the "display-face" has to be the same all the time. means, either 
copy your data in it, as you do within a supply-block. Or put your 
face in display-face/pane.

So is the month very wide (1 - 30/31 days) or do they wrap at every 
week ? ie. are you trying to make an iterated version of my calendar-month 
widget ?

there is no parent-face. It's the whole layout and I need to do an 
initailize while layouting ;-)

Help ... I am trying to reset a button's background color with an 
action but am missing how to do that under View 1.3.  I think it 
worked before. I had thought it was:
  
view layout [button "Test" gold [
    face/text: "Text Reset" 
    face/color: red 
    show face
    ]
]

seems it has to do with the effect. if i clear effect (face/effects: 
face/effect: none) i get pure colors. but with effects on it mysteriously 
does not work. dont understand that yet.

what two apis? set-style/get-style is cool api, I just say it should 
be extended. If designer asks me to expose change of backcolor, I 
will do internally to my style whatever is needed, and expose it 
via set-style 'back-color value. Facets are different thing - they 
are dialect related, you can (or don't need to) expose 'back-color 
as a facet to allow its usage directly via VID code ...

if i want to change that later, why leaning a different way to do 
it?

Yes. You can pass a vid-block to an existing face and update the 
face. the face then knows what to do with a string, a clolor etc. 
not yet, but would be doable.